DUST Search - Greed amazes me

Gunner Nightingale wrote:

the internet forumz are not a proper methodology for any corporation to communicate language like this. To be clear they simply said no more resets we however immediately asked what about merc packs and aurum. They said no more reset. We asked so is this commercial release. They said no. We said but language says we get refunds on commercial release. Now head began to scratch.

This is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand does. Keep in mind that the langauge and disclaimers placed on these items on the PSN store which has since been removed and the gamestop ones (which are still there and really the ball is being dropped everyday CCP doesnt get CCP to remove that language. Ive bought a few and could really be a prick about it if I chose to because corporations need to learn how to manage their **** or hire people that do).

http://www.gamestop.com/ps3/dlc/dust-514-gamestop-mercenary-pack/106107

The language in these packs have to be sufficient enough to stand on their own without additional need to dig for additional info. When CCP removed that language from the PSN pack they changed the terms and it then falls on them to make sure that information is disseminated in manner that ensure 100% penetrance or reasonable expecation of. (this could have easily been achieved with an in game and RL email to the game acct CCP has knowledge of them because our accounts are tied to Sony login which is tied to an email address). They failed to do any of these things and chose to either ignore the issue or have delayed so long because Legal and PR couldnt get their duck in a row and likely were afraid to create another Jita riots level incident.

This is what happens when you live in a litigation happy society where people will sue out of spite even when a company tries to be forthcoming and own up to making a mistake. Trust me i know this because American medicine is practiced entirely with that single fact in mind.

But here CCP has failed on multiple levels. Remember when Noc got that threadnaught started about 1-2 weeks ago and we got a dev response that they would look into it and get us back a response after telc or tiel originally submitted the question back on 1/14(4 days into TQ migration) We are still waiting.

There are multiple threads and CCP has failed to sticky and compile an effective FAQ and cut out BS and get to the meat of the matter in any reasonable way. They now find themselves in between a rock and hard place.

LET ME BE CLEAR THIS IS NOT A DEV FAILING. THIS IS PURELY PR and LEGAL. DEV SHOULDNT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS BS. BUT GM's should have had this as priority one and been on top of Legal and PR everyday for an answer to this. They didnt and here we are. Or maybe they did and Legal and PR are still clueless on what to do(fire em 3 months and still no answer thats utter fail, get rid of them this is corporate you dont let that stuff slide) If CCP isn't prepared to do that then thats okay no shame in it just as many dusters and EVE capsuleers have learned if you try to grow your organization too big too fast without the proper logistics before you are ready you will fall under the weight of the structure.

But consumers asking to enforce the terms of an agreement that were clearly written is by no means selfish or wrong, its in fact wrong for people to ask anyone to not enforce the rights of a contract which is exactly what people are asking for. Never mind that the gaming and more largely the entertainment industry as a whole use copyrights on their IP to protect ownership in a manner that allows them to "own" the product and simply use licensing law to give out a copy that is subject to change on the owners whim leaves consumers in a very weak position and at the mercy of content makers this change on the terms any changes into the EULA that occurs of it is exaclty the reason why. Consumers only recourse is economy but corporations arent dumb they know that people who want this entertainment will put up with it and will never mass protest to a level that could ever hurt them financially to stop it.

Wait till this thing actually goes into commercial release, Sony has already said they cant do anything on their end becauase the game is
is not in commercial release. Once its is officially commercial release Sony can use its support services to bear pressure on CCP and im telling you that is not where CCP want to find themselves in. This is a goddman nightmare for CCP PR and Marketing and Legal.

Keep that fact in mind their is a third party involved in the sale of these items which adds even more legal and PR hurdles to deal with.

You think its bad of us putting pressure directly on CCP over this, you have any idea what happens this gets into Sony's hands on commercial release or gamestops.

I will end by re-iterating this one more time

THIS IS CCP MARKETING, PR and LEGALS fault with perhaps same blame belonging to GM's (please don't ban me for keeping it real). GET OFF THE BLAME THE DEVS BANDWAGON THIS SHOULD NEVER BE SOMETHING THEY SHOULD EVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AND IF I MANAGED AN ORGANIZATION WHERE MY TALENT IS BEING MISMANAGED LIKE THAT AND DEVS ARE BEING SADDLED WITH THIS NONSENSE ID FIRE THE IDIOTS THAT WASTED MY TALENTS' TIME WITH THIS STUFF AND THAT WHAT THE DEVS ARE THEY ARE THE TALENT AND CCP SHOULD TREAT THEM AS SUCH.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 500	Posted - 2013.04.15 01:41:00 - [1] - Quote Allow me to requote myself since ppl still dont understand the full story and ppl coming late to the issue just see that as some sort of entitlement or spoiled child syndrome. Gunner Nightingale wrote: the internet forumz are not a proper methodology for any corporation to communicate language like this. To be clear they simply said no more resets we however immediately asked what about merc packs and aurum. They said no more reset. We asked so is this commercial release. They said no. We said but language says we get refunds on commercial release. Now head began to scratch. This is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand does. Keep in mind that the langauge and disclaimers placed on these items on the PSN store which has since been removed and the gamestop ones (which are still there and really the ball is being dropped everyday CCP doesnt get CCP to remove that language. Ive bought a few and could really be a prick about it if I chose to because corporations need to learn how to manage their **** or hire people that do). http://www.gamestop.com/ps3/dlc/dust-514-gamestop-mercenary-pack/106107 The language in these packs have to be sufficient enough to stand on their own without additional need to dig for additional info. When CCP removed that language from the PSN pack they changed the terms and it then falls on them to make sure that information is disseminated in manner that ensure 100% penetrance or reasonable expecation of. (this could have easily been achieved with an in game and RL email to the game acct CCP has knowledge of them because our accounts are tied to Sony login which is tied to an email address). They failed to do any of these things and chose to either ignore the issue or have delayed so long because Legal and PR couldnt get their duck in a row and likely were afraid to create another Jita riots level incident. This is what happens when you live in a litigation happy society where people will sue out of spite even when a company tries to be forthcoming and own up to making a mistake. Trust me i know this because American medicine is practiced entirely with that single fact in mind. But here CCP has failed on multiple levels. Remember when Noc got that threadnaught started about 1-2 weeks ago and we got a dev response that they would look into it and get us back a response after telc or tiel originally submitted the question back on 1/14(4 days into TQ migration) We are still waiting. There are multiple threads and CCP has failed to sticky and compile an effective FAQ and cut out BS and get to the meat of the matter in any reasonable way. They now find themselves in between a rock and hard place. LET ME BE CLEAR THIS IS NOT A DEV FAILING. THIS IS PURELY PR and LEGAL. DEV SHOULDNT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS BS. BUT GM's should have had this as priority one and been on top of Legal and PR everyday for an answer to this. They didnt and here we are. Or maybe they did and Legal and PR are still clueless on what to do(fire em 3 months and still no answer thats utter fail, get rid of them this is corporate you dont let that stuff slide) If CCP isn't prepared to do that then thats okay no shame in it just as many dusters and EVE capsuleers have learned if you try to grow your organization too big too fast without the proper logistics before you are ready you will fall under the weight of the structure. But consumers asking to enforce the terms of an agreement that were clearly written is by no means selfish or wrong, its in fact wrong for people to ask anyone to not enforce the rights of a contract which is exactly what people are asking for. Never mind that the gaming and more largely the entertainment industry as a whole use copyrights on their IP to protect ownership in a manner that allows them to "own" the product and simply use licensing law to give out a copy that is subject to change on the owners whim leaves consumers in a very weak position and at the mercy of content makers this change on the terms any changes into the EULA that occurs of it is exaclty the reason why. Consumers only recourse is economy but corporations arent dumb they know that people who want this entertainment will put up with it and will never mass protest to a level that could ever hurt them financially to stop it. Wait till this thing actually goes into commercial release, Sony has already said they cant do anything on their end becauase the game is is not in commercial release. Once its is officially commercial release Sony can use its support services to bear pressure on CCP and im telling you that is not where CCP want to find themselves in. This is a goddman nightmare for CCP PR and Marketing and Legal. Keep that fact in mind their is a third party involved in the sale of these items which adds even more legal and PR hurdles to deal with. You think its bad of us putting pressure directly on CCP over this, you have any idea what happens this gets into Sony's hands on commercial release or gamestops. I will end by re-iterating this one more time THIS IS CCP MARKETING, PR and LEGALS fault with perhaps same blame belonging to GM's (please don't ban me for keeping it real). GET OFF THE BLAME THE DEVS BANDWAGON THIS SHOULD NEVER BE SOMETHING THEY SHOULD EVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AND IF I MANAGED AN ORGANIZATION WHERE MY TALENT IS BEING MISMANAGED LIKE THAT AND DEVS ARE BEING SADDLED WITH THIS NONSENSE ID FIRE THE IDIOTS THAT WASTED MY TALENTS' TIME WITH THIS STUFF AND THAT WHAT THE DEVS ARE THEY ARE THE TALENT AND CCP SHOULD TREAT THEM AS SUCH. DEVS STAY THE HELL OUT OF HERE; ONLY GMs and CM should be touching this at all. Anyone who thinks this is a dev issue is simply idiotic and doesn't represent why i have latched onto this issue and id like to think others who keep bringing it up are the same because there still isn't a clear answer. Be open be honest dont risk another Jita man cmon.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 501	Posted - 2013.04.15 06:19:00 - [2] - Quote Baal good on you, im just afraid we are fighting a losing battle with these people on forums its amazing what people are willing to put up with behaving that anyone who provides a service to you is somehow doing you a favor. More importantly the whole its free see look at me i dont spend money on it you're an idiot for spending money on it argument is by far the silliest of the bunch but its the false arguement of double dipping and pointing thats greed as the motivator. Is about as dumb as one can get. even if it is double dipping so what? I consider myself an investor hows about that. I supported CCP when noone else would that was the deal i give them money they give me access and stuff. They tell essentially tell me well since you supported us you get more stuffs because you supported us. But then the F2P purists rage whaaa that P2W, oh really and yet the continued existence of Merc packs in themselves arent? Its quite simple people are butthurt and they fear we will trigger a reset or they fear the idea of 1000's of fused locus nades reigning hell on them. We sorry just like any investment you strike while the irons hot and i did. More so ill even go as far as saying i dont care about getting my stuff refunded i really dont. Whatever i dont need it and i feel as if i got a fair value for my money, The only thing i feel i do deserve refund on is all the consumable minus the boosters because its still a beta and we all know items were lost due to bugs and that should be protected because of "testing" purposes I was testing and thats why you gave me this stuff to test. Anyway as you said its the principle and for me its the process. I am irate that we have no response on this and it is not exactly 3 months since the question was raised here on the forums and i honestly have no idea how long its been since the support ticket was submitted. That is wholly and utterly unacceptable and i will not STFU and its not something that warrants HTFU and fanbois can get over it i dont blindly follow anyone simply because they make something i enjoy, i hold people to a high standard but this is basement level in terms of standards.. communication and transparency are never something one hopes for its expected pure and simple provide it or watch me bash you for it just make sure you everyone directs their ire at the right people.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 507	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote A fair compromise would be refund of consumed merc packs. If you havent spent the aurum or used up the boosters than no you dont get them back you had your chance to use them you didnt. This holds true to the spirit of what these items were intended for Testing. The only issue where i can see this still being a problem is boosters if they were all activated at once. But one can just argue a refund of all the one that were consumed since TQ migration. That is 5 months of boosters while you still have use of the others that haven't been consumed. Point is there are lot of creative and fair solutions.. Cooler heads will prevail once you get communication going. This has only risen to the level it has because of the lack of it. Remember when everyone was QQ and raging over lack of content and it was the only thing you saw on the forums for days on end. Then blogs started rolling out, podcasts were uploaded, and PC was announced. People stopped bitching and got refocused on the future. I know i have been on full on slam mode so here is my olive branch to the GM's/Devs who have been quiet on this. It's not your fault i imagine you guys are on gag orders by Marketing and Legal and its not worth risking your jobs to try to appease us. Thats on corporate, but you may want to forward them this stuff and let them see first hand. If they don't get it done get it done bump it up to the top this is pure on corporate management issues nothing less, sorry for being blunt. I'd like to think the majority of the people here are acting in that manner of good faith CCP and only a small minority are looking to just hold your nuts in a vice. Let the cooler heads prevail and talk to us reach out to us let us help you resolve this. Not me btw i dont care either way im just keeping peoples toes to the fire is all.