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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
473
   |
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
There are slight problems with the Type-II (and B-Series and vk.1) Assault variants because they have more health (shield and armor combined) more fitting room, more speed and more stamina/stamina recharge than the base suit with no downsides. The other classes' variants all have some sort of downside, or are at least not really better than the base variant.
The Heavy has slightly less health, for more speed and stamina.
The Logi has one less equipment slot and loses it's sidearm for more speed, stamina etc.
The Scout has one more equipment slot and loses it's sidearm (I think?).
Overall the Assault variant is basically just an upgrade while the other classes have both upsides and downsides to the variants. In my opinion that's a little problem because I believe the variants should be different (with both upsides and downsides), and not just an upgrade.
Edit: Basically what I mean is that if the Assault player has the choice between the two variants he will use the side variant 10/10 times, whereas the other classes will use the variant that suits them/the situation the most because they're different and not just an upgrade. |
Solarisjock
One-Armed Bandits
Atrocitas
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
225x1.25=281.25
2x complex shield extenders = 132
max shield you can fit on a type II suit = 413.25
add a 3rd complex on a B series
413.25+66=479.25
4th on aproto
479.25+66=545
so yes, a Proto suit, using pure proto tank, can break 500 shield HP, at the complete cost of any and all damage. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
479
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Solarisjock wrote:225x1.25=281.25
2x complex shield extenders = 132
max shield you can fit on a type II suit = 413.25
add a 3rd complex on a B series
413.25+66=479.25
4th on aproto
479.25+66=545
so yes, a Proto suit, using pure proto tank, can break 500 shield HP, at the complete cost of any and all damage.
A gek is still super dangerous at its base dmg or with 1 or 2 dmg mods on it. same goes for the lasers. basically You get alot without any stacking penalties. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
actually no, Proto at 330 CPU still has 114 left over. it still has room for any weapon that it wants to carry. Even the Balac.
400 shields still way too much IMO. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
1168
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
I don' think the problem is too much shields, I think it is too much armor. Type-II is shield based, their downside SHOULD be having zero, or very nearly zero, armor. That way they have the upside of having a high EHP and speed, but are fodder for anyone using flux, lasers, etc. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
760
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
You are drunk duster blog, go home.
413 shields on a maxed type-11. It takes 13 bullets from a militia ar to drop them, 1 flux, or a laser looking at your wrong. Not to mention a shotgun is a ohk. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
What are we going to put on the chopping block next, Scout suits? This is why nerfing is bad. |
Justin Tymes
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:I don' think the problem is too much shields, I think it is too much armor. Type-II is shield based, their downside SHOULD be having zero, or very nearly zero, armor. That way they have the upside of having a high EHP and speed, but are fodder for anyone using flux, lasers, etc.
I do agree 105 base Armor is too much for the Shields that the Assault gets. |
Kalante Schiffer
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
seriously people here who are complaining about the ar dont even know what they are talking about because they are none. It would be like me b*tching about heavies while i am not even a heavy, have the experience of a heavy, or know what a type B, vk1 suit heavy can do. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
1169
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
DustMercsBlog wrote:.....the Type 2 suit [meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1].....
Why is every dust bunny illiterate? All of you saying the type-II can't get 500 shields, even though he specifically said this beforehand. |
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
44
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Heavy get the following with lvl5 to shield and 3 shield extender:
Type 2 : 532
Type B :532
Proto : 598
Not a huge difference for the proto. Assault get a slot per level, heavy get 2 for II and B, then 1 more for proto. Reason why people stick with the type II most of the time.
The difference between the 2 is mainly the armor.
So a heavy get about 400 armor hp more than the assault, but get really slow.
He does get the hmg, but can just hope it is going to aim correctly, since even though you aim the guys, it might not it him every bullets, unless you are close (yeah I know, it's a close/medium range weapon).
But at that distance, the assault aim your head since your are close enough for a easy aim+you can't strafe kitten. He get the headshot bonus, so the assault win the 1 vs 1 a good % of the time.
Shield extender should be a class specific as to the size of the dropsuit. Heavy are to HAV as scouts are to LAV. They both get their own modules.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
473
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:DustMercsBlog wrote:.....the Type 2 suit [meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1]..... Why is every dust bunny illiterate? All of you saying the type-II can't get 500 shields, even though he specifically said this beforehand.
And you don't think he edited that in?
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Kalante Schiffer
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
194
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:DustMercsBlog wrote:.....the Type 2 suit [meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1]..... Why is every dust bunny illiterate? All of you saying the type-II can't get 500 shields, even though he specifically said this beforehand. that was not there when he made the thread, but if you paid close attention to the whole deal here you can see me objecting that you cant fit over 500 shields to a type II suit, and that is when he claimed "meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1" which was total bs and knew he messed up.
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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:You are drunk duster blog, go home.
413 shields on a maxed type-11. It takes 13 bullets from a militia ar to drop them, 1 flux, or a laser looking at your wrong. Not to mention a shotgun is a ohk.
ur missing the point m8. it will take less than that to kill you and he's faster and his shields recharge fast too.
13 bullets is easy when they are sniping or turned around. but what about when ur facing them? a skilled player will wreck havoc with 400 shields. they have no movement penalties at that rate.
scary part is since they have more slots they have comparable shields to heavy suits at every stage. thats mad, no way they should have the protection as a heavy. the type 2 should be the one with less total health since its faster and has fast shield recharge. |
Solarisjock
One-Armed Bandits
Atrocitas
27
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
to who ever said a GEK was really dangerous at base damage, yes, it is as scary as my militia assault with a complex damage mod, especially since a militia with complex hits harder......
and stacking 4 complex extenders kills your fit, you have no more fitting room really. would have to use basic modules for everything else, maybe a single advanced secondary |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
1169
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:You are drunk duster blog, go home.
413 shields on a maxed type-11. It takes 13 bullets from a militia ar to drop them, 1 flux, or a laser looking at your wrong. Not to mention a shotgun is a ohk.
This comment came in AFTER I read the thread, and when I read it for the first time, his comment about the type-II family was in there. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
So here are some basic maths (just cause I want to be fair for once  )
A type-II suit with lvl 5 Field mechanics and shield control:
225 x 1.25 + 105 x 1.25 = 412.5 EHP
A type-I suit:
125 x 1.25 + 175 x 1.25 = 375 EHP
The problem here is obvious, type 1 suits suck, buff them... along with everything else in the game.
Edit: If you give the type-I 130 shields and 200 armor it will have 412.5 EHP, just like the type-II. My 4th grade math teacher can suck it! |
DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
33
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Posted - 2013.04.12 21:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:Logi Bro wrote:DustMercsBlog wrote:.....the Type 2 suit [meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1]..... Why is every dust bunny illiterate? All of you saying the type-II can't get 500 shields, even though he specifically said this beforehand. that was not there when he made the thread, but if you paid close attention to the whole deal here you can see me objecting that you cant fit over 500 shields to a type II suit which i said it is total bs, and that is when he later claimed "meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1" he knew that he messed up. lol
atleast pretend to be smart. why would I give an example with 4 high slots for a suit that only has two? or did I edit that in too?  |
Kalante Schiffer
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
DustMercsBlog wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:Logi Bro wrote:DustMercsBlog wrote:.....the Type 2 suit [meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1]..... Why is every dust bunny illiterate? All of you saying the type-II can't get 500 shields, even though he specifically said this beforehand. that was not there when he made the thread, but if you paid close attention to the whole deal here you can see me objecting that you cant fit over 500 shields to a type II suit which i said it is total bs, and that is when he later claimed "meaning the type II, the b series and the VK1" he knew that he messed up. lol atleast pretend to be smart. why would I give an example with 4 high slots for a suit that only has two? or did I edit that in too? and you at least try to make sense. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:So here are some basic maths (just cause I want to be fair for once ) A type-II suit with lvl 5 Field mechanics and shield control: 225 x 1.25 + 105 x 1.25 = 412.5 EHP A type-I suit: 125 x 1.25 + 175 x 1.25 = 375 EHP The problem here is obvious, type 1 suits suck, buff them... along with everything else in the game. Edit: If you give the type-I 130 shields and 200 armor it will have 412.5 EHP, just like the type-II. My 4th grade math teacher can suck it!
Buff the type-I suit! |
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Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
13
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Atleast I know which suit to use after the respec!! |
DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
34
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
^yup. and thats what anyone with a brain will do because the math backs it up. its the law of first person shooters: if something is unbalanced? use it until its fixed.when one suit has a clear advantage why would you use anything else? then everything else in the market just takes up space and there's no variety.
it boils down to the type II variants being faster and having faster and disproportionately higher shields than everyone else at every stage without giving up anything. i'm sorry if some peoples secret fit got outted but its the truth. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 22:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
DustMercsBlog wrote:i'm sorry if some peoples secret fit got outted but its the truth.
lol, calm down Mr. "Journalist", that the type-II suit is better is pretty basic knowledge. |
Harkon Vysarii
Dead Six Initiative
148
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
SIlly thread for a silly bitching session |
Kane Fyea
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
144
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
No they are not. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
some of you either assault suit users or suck at math. |
Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
lol DUSTERS blog reaching for hits.
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DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
34
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Protoman Is God wrote:lol DUSTERS blog reaching for hits.
if we were we would have posted it on our blog. we simply asked a question and supplied some facts.
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mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
489
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Posted - 2013.04.12 23:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Came back only to see half this thread filled with misinfo, and the other half with facts... but serious hate against the assault suit.
Clearly, a VK1 proto suit is a powerful suit. However, if you think that it blows every other suit out of the water...you haven't played builds where you used the other proto suits. It just depends on your playstyle and how you buff them with modules. The proto vk1 Logi is also a VERY powerful suit, as is the scout. (just cant use them in the exact same manner as assault)
The one suit that does need to be looked at, is the heavy vk0 and vk1. They're pretty underpowered.
You think a suit is OP with 500+ shields? Flux it...all the shields are gone.
The problem (that someone mentioned earlier in this thread) is that there is little reason to armor tank. Making the shield-tank suits superior. (regardless as to whether it's a assault/logi/heavy/scout)
I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again. The way to fix the "shields are OP" problem, the way to fix the "laser is OP", the way to fix the "flux is OP" problem is this:
1. Make armor 10% more resistant to lasers than it currently is.
2. Change armor plating so that Basic plates only give a 2% movement penalty, Adv plates a 3% penalty, and complex plates a 4% penatly.
IMO, the 2 above solutions and the upcoming buff to armor reppers in the new build will fix ALOT of balance issues.
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Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
75
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 00:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
that still doesnt address the fact that those type 2 suits dont give up anything. they are fast and have high shields. also they shouldnt be within 200 points of a heavy in shields or armor. No suit should.
while shields remain this dominant that suit is redonkulous.
hopefully we'll see some changes in uprising. |
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