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Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
143
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I feel like its complex shield extenders that are the problem, not the base shields on b series assault suits.
Basic - 11, Enhanced - 22, Complex... 66? Why such a huge jump from enhanced to complex? And there is no stacking penalty for extenders either.
its basic 22 enhanced 33 complex 66 |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
143
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
The assault type II suit:
x2 high slots x2 low slots
225 base shields 105 base armor
AT MAXIMUM the Assault type II can have 413 shield HP. That's with Shield control level 5, and two complex shield extenders. For my type II suit I like to fit a basic armor plate on so as to essentially add another "shield extender" (basic armor plate has 65hp) This along with level 5 mechanics brings the armor up to 196 armor HP.
In total the suit has 609 total HP. That is a very well fitted dropsuit, and it takes ALOT of SP to be able to fit the armor plate on while also having a LR a SMG and a Nanohive.
The B series can squeeze out about 90 more hp, and the proto suit can get another 90 after that. At the end of the day you have very heavy duty suits, but that does not mean its impossible to kill us. One good flux grenade and were out. simple as that. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
imho assaults have to correct HP to fill their role as being front line pushers. Heavies can have up to 1385 total HP with a fully tanked out suit (about 200-300 more than an assault) and are meant to hold positions with HMG's and being teamed with a logi).
Just because its op in our instant que society doesn't mean it is in organized corp battles. You'd be suprised how fast i'm able to rip through vk.1's with my exile, you just need to be able to hit them. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
492
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Posted - 2013.04.13 01:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:that still doesnt address the fact that those type 2 suits dont give up anything. they are fast and have high shields. also they shouldnt be within 200 points of a heavy in shields or armor. No suit should.
while shields remain this dominant that suit is redonkulous.
hopefully we'll see some changes in uprising.
I'm assuming when you say "type2 suit" you mean the proto vk1? Sure, when it's fitted for max HP it can probably have around 800ish HP. (including 4 complex shield extenders and a couple armor plates, leaving room for 1 repper)
But if you do that to a proto Heavy, (go for max HP) it'll have around 1300HP. So the Heavy still has around 500 more HP.
I think you're just exaggerating. You're probably comparing a proto assault and a std heavy.... not apples to apples.
Regarding "type2 suits vs type1 suits. There is definitely a difference. (type2 is better) But it's not THAT big of a difference. It's an extra 30HP, a little more speed, and a slightly faster shield regen. Like I said before, if you make the changes I mentioned, it would put both suits on more even ground. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2013.04.13 02:03:00 -
[65] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:that still doesnt address the fact that those type 2 suits dont give up anything. they are fast and have high shields. also they shouldnt be within 200 points of a heavy in shields or armor. No suit should.
while shields remain this dominant that suit is redonkulous.
hopefully we'll see some changes in uprising. I'm assuming when you say "type2 suit" you mean the proto vk1? Sure, when it's fitted for max HP it can probably have around 800ish HP. (including 4 complex shield extenders and a couple armor plates, leaving room for 1 repper) But if you do that to a proto Heavy, (go for max HP) it'll have around 1300HP. So the Heavy still has around 500 more HP. I think you're just exaggerating. You're probably comparing a proto assault and a std heavy.... not apples to apples. Regarding "type2 suits vs type1 suits. There is definitely a difference. (type2 is better) But it's not THAT big of a difference. It's an extra 30HP, a little more speed, and a slightly faster shield regen. Like I said before, if you make the changes I mentioned, it would put both suits on more even ground.
yes. im talking abt the vk.1
my issue is the assault 2 is the only suit that improves. scout, logi and heavy all give up something in the type 2 versions. the assault should as well dont u think?
also, the heavy suit has 3 high slots and 2 low on the vk.1 it definitely cant turn that into 1300 total h. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
501
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:
also, the heavy suit has 3 high slots and 2 low on the vk.1 it definitely cant turn that into 1300 total h.
Perhaps 1200s? I know Heavies can get their HP over 1200.... just don't have the game on in front of me.
BTW, I think the type2 Heavy IS an improvement over the type1. I don't see where he gives up anything. Unless I misunderstood you.... |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Instead of nerfing the good gear, you guys should be looking for ways to buff the crappy gear. All nerfing type-II suits will accomplish is flattening the game even more and bringing it closer to CoD.
Buff type-1 suits, and scouts, and heavies... logis are fine though. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:16:00 -
[68] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:
also, the heavy suit has 3 high slots and 2 low on the vk.1 it definitely cant turn that into 1300 total h.
Perhaps 1200s? I know Heavies can get their HP over 1200.... just don't have the game on in front of me. BTW, I think the type2 Heavy IS an improvement over the type1. I don't see where he gives up anything. Unless I misunderstood you.... Less EHP I think, haven't done the math, and flux grenades probably hurt them the most. |
Infekti0n
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
I disagree. Ubershielding a Type II is actually a stupid and expensive thing to do, i find the suit suprisingly well balanced. CPU/PG wise its pretty crap so fitting stuff without the skills can be quite a pain. It wont really fit anything higher then Advanced weapons, but if you fit Advanced weapons the rest of your Modules will feel the CPU drain. So i prefer not too use Adv Weaps on type II and go for a 1x complex shield mod.complex dmg mod + Exile/assault rifle instead. This way the ISK drain will not be so intense and it will still put out allot of damage with the prof skills. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Infekti0n wrote:I disagree. Ubershielding a Type II is actually a stupid and expensive thing to do, i find the suit suprisingly well balanced. CPU/PG wise its pretty crap so fitting stuff without the skills can be quite a pain. It wont really fit anything higher then Advanced weapons, but if you fit Advanced weapons the rest of your Modules will feel the CPU drain. So i prefer not too use Adv Weaps on type II and go for a 1x complex shield mod.complex dmg mod + Exile/assault rifle instead. This way the ISK drain will not be so intense and it will still put out allot of damage with the prof skills. So much wrong here... |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Infekti0n wrote: CPU/PG wise its pretty crap so fitting stuff without the skills can be quite a pain.
Type-Is have it even harder, they have less CPU and PG
Quote:It wont really fit anything higher then Advanced weapons, but if you fit Advanced weapons the rest of your Modules will feel the CPU drain. I have 2 complex shield extenders, 1 Gek, 1 SMG, 1 Locus Grenade, 1 Gauged Nanohive,1 Basic Shield regulator, and 1 basic armor repairer (that's really all you need). I'm currently trying to cut my CPU usage down so I can fit an enhanced regulator, I think I should be good once I reach Light Weapon Upgrades Pro lvl 2
Quote:So i prefer not too use Adv Weaps on type II and go for a 1x complex shield mod.complex dmg mod + Exile/assault rifle instead. This way the ISK drain will not be so intense and it will still put out allot of damage with the prof skills. There's the problem, Complex mods have higher fitting requirements, cost more, and still lose out to shield extenders.
My Type-II costs me about 60K ISK, not that expensive if you ask me. |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2013.04.13 02:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
500 shields against ARs is nothing especially with 100ahp underneath, the bigger problem is that ridiculous shield recharge delay |
Infekti0n
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
60k? lol, mine is 35K and my weapon does more dmg. for only 1 shield extender. See my point? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:47:00 -
[74] - Quote
Infekti0n wrote:60k? lol, mine is 35K and my weapon does more dmg. for only 1 shield extender. See my point? shield extenders are cheaper than damage mods, so clearly my fit is more expensive for other reasons.
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Infekti0n
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
0
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Posted - 2013.04.13 02:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Because you use a ADV gun that is worth 3x the amount of your suit... Which was my exact point.. Why are you here again..? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Infekti0n wrote:Because you use a ADV gun that is worth 3x the amount of your suit. Well duh, I don't really need the gun, it barely makes a difference.
Why are you here exactly? You're here telling us the suit is "well balanced", when it's completely obvious that it outclasses the type-I in every way, that's not "balanced" bub. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1214
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
The scrambler rifle would put this topic to rest once we get it. |
Nulldust
Codex Troopers
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
DustMercsBlog wrote:when one suit has a clear advantage why would you use anything else? then everything else in the market just takes up space and there's no variety.
it boils down to the type II variants being faster and having faster and disproportionately higher shields than everyone else at every stage without giving up anything. i'm sorry if some peoples secret fit got outted but its the truth.
+1 agree. That's the point.
Marston VC wrote:The assault type II suit: AT MAXIMUM the Assault type II can have 413 shield HP. That's with Shield control level 5, and two complex shield extenders. For my type II suit I like to fit a basic armor plate on so as to essentially add another "shield extender" (basic armor plate has 65hp) This along with level 5 mechanics brings the armor up to 196 armor HP.
+1 That is a very viable fitting.
but for me, 100+ more hp is nothing, i still kill it. but that is not the point... wait wait maybe that is the point. |
Infekti0n
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
? It costs less skillpoints to unlock, and less isk to buy. Ofcourse the type II will be a better suit. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:02:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:The scrambler rifle would put this topic to rest once we get it. The Ar also does more damage to shields and this topic still isn't dead |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
844
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
Infekti0n wrote:? It costs less skillpoints to unlock, and less isk to buy. Ofcourse the type II will be a better suit. Is the burst AR, or any other variant, better than the the regular AR? The Type-II is supposed to just be a variant, not on a whole other tier.
Type-I and II should be balanced when compared to each-other. |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
If somebody adds mods in an efficient manner, they're OP. I can't wait for the first person to whine about how Scout suits run too fast, and how they're too awesome with Catalizers hooked up. Reward, Sacrifice. Don't like somebody's style? Kill 'em. It's a game, you can do that. Can't kill 'em? Step up YOUR game, don't beg to ret.ard everyone else. |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
lol so the due fire finally comes to the assault role, for it to burn justly.
karma is a kitten.
Assault shield defense should max at a even 400 HP. Not a drop more. BUT... I stated a long time before, that it's function needs to be more "adaptive" (in line with its role), and less "capacitive" (which is the Heavy's role).
Max out the Assault's shields at 400, and allow their shields to "adapt" (automatically and/or manually) to the type of weapons fire they are getting hit by or anticipate getting hit by.
50% increase in shield resistance to whatever type of weapon is hitting them, and can only adapt to one weapon type at a time. Example: They know someone with a thale's has a solution on them. They can switch up to an anti-hybrid shield mode, and cut damage received by 50%. Or if they know an HMG is around the corner, they can switch to anti-kinetic shield mode. But if they are caught in the wrong defensive mode as weapon's fire comes in, they will take full damage until the suit attempts to adapt on its own, which could prove to be fatal. |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:If somebody adds mods in an efficient manner, they're OP. I can't wait for the first person to whine about how Scout suits run too fast, and how they're too awesome with Catalizers hooked up. Reward, Sacrifice. Don't like somebody's style? Kill 'em. It's a game, you can do that. Can't kill 'em? Step up YOUR game, don't beg to ret.ard everyone else.
lol dude. that's what Assaults did to EVERYONE else. lmao
they couldn't hang against niche game, and cried for everything to be controlled.
"Too many sniper perches!" "Maps are too big!" "Heavies are too hard to kill!"
You name it. |
James-5955
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 04:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
Bad players still haven't caught on to that yet, only reason I'm still running my shield fit almost every time. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1225
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 04:34:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dont really have a problem with type-II's but it buggs me that they have more CPU/PG then the type-I. To be perfectly honest they just need to buff the armor repair modules by 100%. So that the basic is 4HP/s, enhanced 6HP/s and complex 10HP/s. Most people have a issue with shield vs armor cause shields allow you to go back into battle much faster after you have beeing hit quite hard while armor regenerates painfully slow. Funny thing on vehicles is that armor repairs are beast and the most efficent reps in the game. But on the other hand CCP provided the community with allready alot of tools to help armor out. For example: -repair tool - armor repairing nanohives Nano hives which repair armor are the following: -compact nanohive -k17/D Nanohive -K-CR Triage nanohive -W+ˇyrkomi Triage nanohive
The compact is quite handy cause it gives ammo and armor (lvl 2), the K17/D is a hybrid like the compact but does a worse job but lasts longer and the K-CR/W+ˇyrkomi triage nano hives are beasts cause they produce a very large nanite bubble and are only for repairing at a very good rate (around 50hp per boost). |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 04:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Dont really have a problem with type-II's but it buggs me that they have more CPU/PG then the type-I. To be perfectly honest they just need to buff the armor repair modules by 100%. So that the basic is 4HP/s, enhanced 6HP/s and complex 10HP/s. Most people have a issue with shield vs armor cause shields allow you to go back into battle much faster after you have beeing hit quite hard while armor regenerates painfully slow. Funny thing on vehicles is that armor repairs are beast and the most efficent reps in the game. But on the other hand CCP provided the community with allready alot of tools to help armor out. For example: -repair tool - armor repairing nanohives Nano hives which repair armor are the following: -compact nanohive -k17/D Nanohive -K-CR Triage nanohive -W+ˇyrkomi Triage nanohive
The compact is quite handy cause it gives ammo and armor (lvl 2), the K17/D is a hybrid like the compact but does a worse job but lasts longer and the K-CR/W+ˇyrkomi triage nano hives are beasts cause they produce a very large nanite bubble and are only for repairing at a very good rate (around 50hp per boost).
Yeah, I tried to raise the point in another thread, that Armor is the undisputed champion for any type of purely defensive setup. Shields are better suited for actual assaulting.
I dare a bunch of shield guys to face a bunch of heavies, armor plated logis, and armor assaults that are fighting from a armor-repping nanofield.
Armor isn't useless, but it has a role it must play. That role is to be defensive, and lock objectives and/or areas down.
However, how shields work for assaults should be reviewed. I still prefer to see their shielding more adaptive. |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 04:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Rynoceros wrote:If somebody adds mods in an efficient manner, they're OP. I can't wait for the first person to whine about how Scout suits run too fast, and how they're too awesome with Catalizers hooked up. Reward, Sacrifice. Don't like somebody's style? Kill 'em. It's a game, you can do that. Can't kill 'em? Step up YOUR game, don't beg to ret.ard everyone else. lol dude. that's what Assaults did to EVERYONE else. lmao they couldn't hang against niche game, and cried for everything to be controlled. "Too many sniper perches!" "Maps are too big!" "Heavies are too hard to kill!" You name it.
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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
142
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 05:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:that still doesnt address the fact that those type 2 suits dont give up anything. they are fast and have high shields. also they shouldnt be within 200 points of a heavy in shields or armor. No suit should.
while shields remain this dominant that suit is redonkulous.
hopefully we'll see some changes in uprising.
If you are speccing a VK1 with additional Armor Plates to get within a heavies Armor range, you are doing it wrong.
Besides 1 Flux grenade really ruins our day and is the valid counter vs our VK1 suit, its there for you to use, use it, even the most basic version kills my shields and makes me run for cover, where as any suit with a bit of armor can still continue, my 120 armor = wet paper.
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 06:22:00 -
[90] - Quote
not news that the type 2 and the adv. and proto variants are not properly balanced. type II suits should have a sort of specialization and not be just better overall. seriously, all other type 2 suits are just specialized suits with drawbacks for the bonus they receive, except the assault suits which gets more ehp, more shields, more fittings & more speed without absolutely any drawbacks... |
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