AR does not need a nerf.

I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything.

Assault Rifles versus...

Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges.
HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges.
Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder.
Laser Rifles? Ditto.
Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable.
Submachine Guns? Better range and damage.
Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly.
Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me.

I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything.

Assault Rifles versus...

Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges.
HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges.
Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder.
Laser Rifles? Ditto.
Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable.
Submachine Guns? Better range and damage.
Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly.
Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me.

I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills.

Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit.

Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring.

We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month.

I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills.

Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit.

Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring.

We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month.

AR does not need a nerf. It sounds like you need to learn how to use a weapon properly and are learning that sharpshooter is a core skill.

I think the reason most people go for assault and AR is because they're too scared to try anything else. I would try using MDs and LRs, but I don't want to spend my hard earned SP on something I may end up sucking with.

Sniping is easier than playing with an AR
ARs are fine for the most part

It's still BETA, mate. Now is the best time to try different builds so when the game goes live, and skill are invariably reset, you can then spec into what you really want instead of just wondering forevermore.

I cant standoff at range against a laser

I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything.

Assault Rifles versus...

Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges.
HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges.
Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder.
Laser Rifles? Ditto.
Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable.
Submachine Guns? Better range and damage.
Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly.
Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me.

the TAR and Burst variants are both just about right... which is why most AR users say "don't use TAR or Burst, they suck". Scale back the regular full auto variants to be more in line with the adjustments already made to the TAR and Burst and you've got a balanced weapon.

I cant standoff at range against a laser,it melts my butt quickly. I cant short range an HMG,it rips me up. A good MD user makes me hide or run for distance where its harder to hit me. A good sniper can pin me down. Shotguns at close/point blank range is instant death. Ofcourse all this also is affected by the SP supporting the weapon/dropsuit a player is using. You are screaming without all the facts.

It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways.

Not when that weapon is used in it's niche

The full-auto ARs are the black sheep that the power hungry love.

MLT Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are the OP ones. (The Officer Assault Rifles can stay.)
There is literally no other weapon or device in this game as imbalanced as those. People literally tell me, "there is nothing the TAR or Burst can do, that I can't do with the full-auto." and THAT is the problem, and the sign of imbalance.
Niches be damned.

Shoot, I say just wipe the full-auto variants completely, and make a fully-automatic firing mode for the Burst and Tactical variants, without changing their clip size. Keep kick for the Burst and Tac the same.

OR

Reduce the rate of fire to 500rpm, increase kick to the same as the Burst, and... reduce max effective range to 65-70m.

That would be balanced.

The full-auto ARs are the black sheep that the power hungry love.

MLT Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are the OP ones. (The Officer Assault Rifles can stay.)
There is literally no other weapon or device in this game as imbalanced as those. People literally tell me, "there is nothing the TAR or Burst can do, that I can't do with the full-auto." and THAT is the problem, and the sign of imbalance.
Niches be damned.

Shoot, I say just wipe the full-auto variants completely, and make a fully-automatic firing mode for the Burst and Tactical variants, without changing their clip size. Keep kick for the Burst and Tac the same.

OR

Reduce the rate of fire to 500rpm, increase kick to the same as the Burst, and... reduce max effective range to 65-70m.

That would be balanced.

Try giving proof that it's unbalanced

Try giving proof that it's unbalanced
I get many kills from a Militia Assault Rifle when I use it with almost no experience and almost no allocated skillpoints.

Was going to say cut the RoF to 500rpm (or even 550). Because at the current 700+ the thing shoots faster than the Breach SMG. What good is a Breach SMG if the AR keeps working as it does? (Yet another example of the AR displacing the role of something else.)
Then buff the Breach SMG to 700+rpm. (the regular SMG already have 1000rpm)
Let the close range weapons have the close range advantage.

But your example with the Militia is good enough.
I'll find some threads if the request for "find proof that it's unbalanced" still stands.

The AR was never supposed to have RPM that high to begin with. You want a good close range AR, the Breach AR is nasty, especially with damage mods. Just get rid of the kicking animation, it's not shooting fast enough for all that.

Past, AK 47. Kalasknikov variant. This assault rifle is over 60 years old, here's some facts. Gas activated bolt mechanism for faster reloading and reduced recoil. Chambered in 7.62 mm "a large damage round', capable of 600 rpm, effective range 300 meters set on full auto. 400 meters on semi auto, over 60 year old weapon. Present, M4A1 assault rifle, gas activated rotating bolt, I can tell you from personal military experience it has next to no recoil compared to the AK. Chambered in 5.56 mm, capable of , 'wait for it', 950 rpm, effective range 500 meters full auto, 600 meters semi auto. I have operated both many times and can tell you they are both deadly accurate at their suggested ranges. Considering this game takes place thousands of years in the future, I think ccp has it right, or the AR could use a buff, stop crying.

I've stacked enhanced damage mods on a gek and still didn't reach these instakill levels of damage. Besides against scouts (which are paper at every Ar tier) most suits take a decent amount of rounds before dying. However the recoil is too negligible starting at the half wat point of the mag.

the TAR and Burst variants are both just about right... which is why most AR users say "don't use TAR or Burst, they suck". Scale back the regular full auto variants to be more in line with the adjustments already made to the TAR and Burst and you've got a balanced weapon.

lol here's a question to help drive the point for the weapon's kick.
This question is for anyone that seems to think referencing real-life matters.

Who invented the Burst Assault Rifle concept, and why?

Answer that, and you'll know why the Assault Rifle here in Dust is OP.

You use real-life to reason right?

I just stated that the lack of recoil is a problem, as for the stacking I'll try it out

It's not the AR it's the god damn Sharpshooter skill. Without the skill the AR is a CQC-mid range weapon. With sharpshooter the AR can have more range than a laser rifle, and the almost no recoil makes it OP.

Stacking is working as intended, no problems there. Its only a display bug.

I wasn't suggesting it didn't, I just don't believe it becomes op

If every weapon gained noticeable range from sharpshooter how is that a problem? It's a tiny bonus which is how I know you're bsing about the range (4 to five isn't a big difference)

You'll see. Took an assault rifle, type-2 assault suit, and 2 complex damage mods and ran a 21-2, just earlier.

There has to be a way to even out damage for the AR, so it keeps good basic performance, but not so high modded performance.

You can go 21-2 with any weapon in this game. What is your point?

If every weapon gained noticeable range from sharpshooter how is that a problem? It's a tiny bonus which is how I know you're bsing about the range (4 to five isn't a big difference)

40% is a tiny bonus?

To answer your question on select fire modes in real life. A gas bolt operated AK47 in the hands of a trained soldier is capable of dumping half of a "magazine" of 30 rounds into a one foot round target at 50 meters, I've done it. A spring operated bolt, "cheaper variants', no way in hell as the barrel does not slide to reduce recoil, you are semi correct. The m4A1, completely different animal. You can all 30 rounds from a standard "mag" into a one foot round target at 50 meters without missing a beat! Flip your mag and resume fire without taking your sights off target. Select fire or the "three round burst" you speak of was introduced more for ammo conservation than recoil mitigation. One well placed round from either of these weapons will kill out to 500 meters no problem. As far as the damage mods go I'll look into it before I engage a debate as you may be correct.

You are mostly correct, but that's all under optimal conditions. Non-moving shooter, non-moving target, etc. But hitting a 1x1ft target at 500 meters while standing? No sir, definitely not with the AK, and not even the M4. Maybe in the prone. Kneeling? You'd have to be DAMN good. And again, under optimal conditions.

It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways.

You're right, It out competes every other weapon, it has more RPMs than an HMG, more damage than a Charge Sniper Rifle, more range than a Sniper Rifle, more damage build up over time than an LR, more accuracy than an LR, a larger splash radius than an MD, a higher head-shot critical damage than a Scrambler Pistol, a larger clip size than an HMG, a faster reload speed than an SMG, and.......oh wait, you're saying it's none of those things?

Stop over-reacting, be thankful this isn't E3 where everyone and their mother used a Creodron Assault Rifle.

I'm going to point out that most HMGs out-range my AR(maxed sharpshooters vs my lvl 3 sharpshooter), with better RPMs the only thing my AR does better than an HMG is damage per shot, plus the HMG gets more accurate with time, while my AR gets less accurate with time.

So by the logic that the AR is OP, the HMG is doubly OP.

HMG definatly does not outrange ARs, and we usually die before the cone of fire can get reasonably small. Thats why I only use my HMG fit on small maps.

HMGs can outrange ARs with maxed sharpshooter, but with equal sharpshooter AR definately outranges HMG. Either way, maximum range isn't everything. Accuracy is also important at longer ranges. HMGs are less accurate when they start firing, ARs are more accurate when they start firing.

HMG definatly does not outrange ARs, and we usually die before the cone of fire can get reasonably small. Thats why I only use my HMG fit on small maps.

HMGs can outrange ARs with maxed sharpshooter, but with equal sharpshooter AR definately outranges HMG. Either way, maximum range isn't everything. Effective range is more important. Accuracy is also important at longer ranges. HMGs are less accurate when they start firing, ARs are more accurate when they start firing.

Assault Rifles versus...
Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder.

It makes me sad that no one has had fun times learning to CQC with a sniper yet.

It makes me sad that no one has had fun times learning to CQC with a sniper yet.

AR does not need a nerf. It sounds like you need to learn how to use a weapon properly and are learning that sharpshooter is a core skill.

AR need TRUE recoil, not this fake recoil we have now.

The AR is broken, and it breaks the game.
Even after damage mods have exposed as properly balanced, some people still say that the AR is fine.
Can you see through your own bias?

Doing well with a sniper rifle in an ambush for me is hit or miss. I'll go 2-3, when it's bad match, and spend the rest of the match running away from pursuers because it's so frickin cramped.
But give me an assault rifle and suddenly i'll do like 15-3 if its BAD match, then 20-0 or 30-4.
That's not skill. That's use-to-win!
I deliberately avoid using the full-auto AR, because it is too easy, and I HATE playing that role. I despise it. I abhor and detest it.

Aim with no consequence, fire with no consequence. Run around killing with impunity. Nothing stops it. (Except a REALLY sucky set of blueberries) Assault role is so imbalanced vs. everyone else it makes me want to pull my hair out.

It's TOO easy to play as an assault. Way too easy. The AR doesn't have average performance in every area it has excellent performance in every area. It owns EVERYTHING, all you need is a pinch of aim, and you'll ruin everyone's day. I've already done it. I call myself a niche player, but I'm at Proficiency 3 with my AR.
The weapon is a joke, and the moment some niche player succeeds in embarrassing someone that relies on the shield-tank Assault/AR fit, they come to the forums to complain.

It's OP. I pray that we get a slew of utility weapons to poop on the Assault role AND the AR come May 6.

There are no individuals that are OP with the Assault role. Focus on killing them, and they will die. Trust me, I KNOW this.
It's the ease of the role itself that's OP.

If you find some individuals OP as Assaults, then ask them why they never play any other role... they will likely tell you 1 or/both of 2 things:
1. They suck at the other roles.
2. They think the other roles are next to useless, with the exception of logi.

That's it. The good players won't do any other roles, because the other roles simply suck by comparison of usefulness.
You have some good determined Heavies that put on a good show ( I literally remember seeing one in an allied corp dance around in an open field during a practice corp match, desperately trying not to get shot. lol it was hilarious, because he was semi-successful).
But currently it feels as if the game is so geared toward making life swell for the Assault role....

Whatever, I drop the argument like a hot potato, here and now. I said I was going to drop this until May 6.

So there it goes...

*PLOP*

It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways.

AR need TRUE recoil, not this fake recoil we have now.

Not when that weapon is used in it's niche

It out competes every weapon when used outside of that weapons element. Because it is the midground weapon, the "jack of all trades" weapon, the go anywhere and use it weapon, and it always has been and is supposed to be that way.

Assault Rifles can easily out damage Shotguns at close range, the only thing the Shotgun has on it's side is burst damage. Assault Rifle easily out damages an HMG at medium to long range, the only thing the HMG has on it's side is raw damage potential at close range. Assault Rifles easily provide better suppressive fire than Mass Drivers at most ranges, and HMGs at longer ranges, despite those weapons supposedly being for suppressive fire. The only thing a Mass Driver has on its side is alpha. Unless you have mad skills, that is, but still... Point is, Assault Rifles are not only the "Jack-of-all-Trades", they are also the "Master-of-most-Trades".