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[Feedback] One more middle finger at the AR... before May 6.

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Jathniel G I A N T 133	Posted - 2013.04.06 11:44:00 - [1] - Quote RAAAAAAAAGE POST! (All complaints are aimed at the Militia Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle, AND the Assault suit.) [insert four-letter word here] the AR! Cut it's range! Cut it's RoF! Cut it's damage! Make it bleed! Make it's mother cry! Hurt it! And [insert four-letter word here] it's obnoxious defenders! FIRE! BRIMSTONE! They say, "It's not the AR that's OP, it's the damage mods!" Then it's discovered that damage mods are working as intended. The numbers just aren't displaying in the fittings correctly. Makes sense, BUT....! Now the excuse is: "Well if the damage mods are working, it's not the AR that's OP, it's the level design...! Or if it's not the level design, it's the other weapons that need a buff! If it's not that, then it's Heavies that need a buff. Or no, not that, sniper damage needs to be increased!" God frickin dammit... Stop finding every other possible excuse to ignore the truth! The AR is frickin OP! That one weapon is throwing the whole damn Dust experience out of whack! Don't rebalance EVERY other weapon in the game, and demand map redesign, etc etc! For goodness' sake it IS OP...! The AR's imbalance causes nothing but rage, and the obnoxious little OP shield tankers running around with them are worse. 3 shots to die to Charge Sniper Rifle rounds? Who made them a Heavy? They use a AR, the easiest thing in the UNIVERSE! But some of them want to call flux grenades OP!? Oh 'CCP Jesus' where art thou??!! Save us from the tyrannical rule of Assaults and the AR!! PLEASE!! I'm tired of myself and countless others calling Bloody Mary on such horrendous imbalance! So many people have done tests and presented the numbers! The truth is so obvious it should make everyone's eyes BLEED. The AR is so OP! The thing practically ruins matches before they even start! It's the most obnoxious, irritating, skill-lacking, use-to-win weapon I have ever seen!! I swear all it needs to do is shoot ORBITALS for it's journey to the Dark Side to be COMPLETE...!!! RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!! tears garments in lamentation! It's OP.... No kick for like half the clip... what genius in his right mind actually thought this thing was balanced when he introduced it as is...? May 6.... Oh man, I'm ONLY hanging on because of May 6... Please CCP, do not make us grow through the LONGEST build ever, just for May 6 to be more of the same. We believe in you Devs! Don't let us down. Get us some balance! Your poor little niche players are counting on you!
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:00:00 - [2] - Quote The AR is broken, and it breaks the game. Even after damage mods have exposed as properly balanced, some people still say that the AR is fine. Can you see through your own bias? Doing well with a sniper rifle in an ambush for me is hit or miss. I'll go 2-3, when it's bad match, and spend the rest of the match running away from pursuers because it's so frickin cramped. But give me an assault rifle and suddenly i'll do like 15-3 if its BAD match, then 20-0 or 30-4. That's not skill. That's use-to-win! I deliberately avoid using the full-auto AR, because it is too easy, and I HATE playing that role. I despise it. I abhor and detest it. Aim with no consequence, fire with no consequence. Run around killing with impunity. Nothing stops it. (Except a REALLY sucky set of blueberries) Assault role is so imbalanced vs. everyone else it makes me want to pull my hair out. It's TOO easy to play as an assault. Way too easy. The AR doesn't have average performance in every area it has excellent performance in every area. It owns EVERYTHING, all you need is a pinch of aim, and you'll ruin everyone's day. I've already done it. I call myself a niche player, but I'm at Proficiency 3 with my AR. The weapon is a joke, and the moment some niche player succeeds in embarrassing someone that relies on the shield-tank Assault/AR fit, they come to the forums to complain. It's OP. I pray that we get a slew of utility weapons to poop on the Assault role AND the AR come May 6. There are no individuals that are OP with the Assault role. Focus on killing them, and they will die. Trust me, I KNOW this. It's the ease of the role itself that's OP. If you find some individuals OP as Assaults, then ask them why they never play any other role... they will likely tell you 1 or/both of 2 things: 1. They suck at the other roles. 2. They think the other roles are next to useless, with the exception of logi. That's it. The good players won't do any other roles, because the other roles simply suck by comparison of usefulness. You have some good determined Heavies that put on a good show ( I literally remember seeing one in an allied corp dance around in an open field during a practice corp match, desperately trying not to get shot. lol it was hilarious, because he was semi-successful). But currently it feels as if the game is so geared toward making life swell for the Assault role.... Whatever, I drop the argument like a hot potato, here and now. I said I was going to drop this until May 6. So there it goes... PLOP
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:01:00 - [3] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills. Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit. Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring. We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month. Yes. This^ Topic dropped. This. +1
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Sniping is easier than playing with an AR ARs are fine for the most part Sorry, Mavado-san. My main gripe is the fully automatic ARs. I think their MAX effective/accuracy range should be 65m, and past that, you have a hard time hitting anyone. You want to get more range, use the TAR or BurstAR. Now those two are some well-balanced ARs. I've been using the TAR regularly, despite the kick complaint. I'm happy it has the kick actually. It would be totally OP without it. I don't even snipe with a SR in ambush anymore. I just snipe with the TAR, and it's about as effective as a Tactical SR body hit when you score a headshot, and it's still just out of full-auto AR range. I hate full-auto ARs. For all that DPS and accuracy and range. It's too much. I really don't want to pick this up. That weapon makes me miserable. Has nothing to do with 'knowing how to fight against it', that implies there being a weakness to exploit. Something can't be that easy, to use, then someone claim it's skilled-based. We're at the "wrong end" of weapons all the time, but this weapon... has made this game hell for me ever since the red zone increase.
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:35:00 - [5] - Quote In fact, moderators, please close this thread. I wanted to give my feedback, not start a debate. Just lock it, and save it. Had to get the rage off my chest. OP is requesting thread lock.
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:49:00 - [6] - Quote There's nothing I can debate, and no argument or set of numbers I can present that haven't already been presented. That have made the case. My post was Feedback = Rage Post about an imbalance. Nothing more. Requesting thread lock.
Jathniel G I A N T 146	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:39:00 - [7] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: the TAR and Burst variants are both just about right... which is why most AR users say "don't use TAR or Burst, they suck". Scale back the regular full auto variants to be more in line with the adjustments already made to the TAR and Burst and you've got a balanced weapon. +1 Me and a buddy been using TARs all day, and doing quite well. The TAR and Burst are balanced. The full-autos aren't.
Jathniel G I A N T 149	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:53:00 - [8] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways. Not when that weapon is used in it's niche The full-auto ARs are the black sheep that the power hungry love. MLT Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are the OP ones. (The Officer Assault Rifles can stay.) There is literally no other weapon or device in this game as imbalanced as those. People literally tell me, "there is nothing the TAR or Burst can do, that I can't do with the full-auto." and THAT is the problem, and the sign of imbalance. Niches be damned. Shoot, I say just wipe the full-auto variants completely, and make a fully-automatic firing mode for the Burst and Tactical variants, without changing their clip size. Keep kick for the Burst and Tac the same. OR Reduce the rate of fire to 500rpm, increase kick to the same as the Burst, and... reduce max effective range to 65-70m. That would be balanced.
Jathniel G I A N T 150	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:13:00 - [9] - Quote Was going to say cut the RoF to 500rpm (or even 550). Because at the current 700+ the thing shoots faster than the Breach SMG. What good is a Breach SMG if the AR keeps working as it does? (Yet another example of the AR displacing the role of something else.) Then buff the Breach SMG to 700+rpm. (the regular SMG already have 1000rpm) Let the close range weapons have the close range advantage. But your example with the Militia is good enough. I'll find some threads if the request for "find proof that it's unbalanced" still stands. The AR was never supposed to have RPM that high to begin with. You want a good close range AR, the Breach AR is nasty, especially with damage mods. Just get rid of the kicking animation, it's not shooting fast enough for all that.
Jathniel G I A N T 150	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:16:00 - [10] - Quote Need proof of imbalance? There's no way you don't know about the whole damage mod debate. How come other weapons are reasonably boosted by the damage mods, but the full-auto ARs (ONLY the full-auto ones), seem to start insta-killing with them? That's not even disputed. Folks already know that auto ARs + damage mods = OP. For the longest time, they (even AR supporters) blamed the damage mods, on the assumption that the damage mods themselves were stacking damage incorrectly. But many people then tested the numbers, damage mods were and had been stacking damage properly. CCP itself said that the numbers were displaying incorrectly. The problem doesn't disappear just because the damage mods debate was settled. It doesn't change that Auto ARs + Damage Mods = OP. So what then? Ignore the problem, because we don't want to fix the auto AR? "Fix" the not-broken damage mods, and throw the balance of every other weapon in game completely off? Why? Because we don't want to fix the AR? That is unreasonable bias, and we have got to start talking about new stats for the AR to get it in line with its variants (and nearly every other weapon in the game for that matter).

Jathniel G I A N T 151	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:39:00 - [11] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: Past, AK 47. Kalasknikov variant. This assault rifle is over 60 years old, here's some facts. Gas activated bolt mechanism for faster reloading and reduced recoil. Chambered in 7.62 mm "a large damage round', capable of 600 rpm, effective range 300 meters set on full auto. 400 meters on semi auto, over 60 year old weapon. Present, M4A1 assault rifle, gas activated rotating bolt, I can tell you from personal military experience it has next to no recoil compared to the AK. Chambered in 5.56 mm, capable of , 'wait for it', 950 rpm, effective range 500 meters full auto, 600 meters semi auto. I have operated both many times and can tell you they are both deadly accurate at their suggested ranges. Considering this game takes place thousands of years in the future, I think ccp has it right, or the AR could use a buff, stop crying. No. I will not 'stop crying', because it is foul gameplay imbalance. I'm willing to bet those guns you cite actually kick when you shoot them. I also bet they can't hit a target the size of a man's head at those ranges continuously at full-auto. In fact, I bet at 100 meters or so, they'll start missing targets unless you're the size of a car or bigger. So NO CCP doesn't have it right. There is a superficial kick animation in ADS, that doesn't throw off your aim until you are halfway through your clip. Hell, we got Sniper Rifles that can blow small homes down and shoot through walls in real-life! Imagine the cries for a nerf if such performance were ever given to the SRs in this game! So no. The crying will continue until this thread is closed. And for many others it will continue until May 6 arrives. The Auto ARs, excluding the Breach, are not balanced.
Jathniel G I A N T 151	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:43:00 - [12] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: I've stacked enhanced damage mods on a gek and still didn't reach these instakill levels of damage. Besides against scouts (which are paper at every Ar tier) most suits take a decent amount of rounds before dying. However the recoil is too negligible starting at the half wat point of the mag. Use Complex not Enhanced. You only need 2 to see how it performs. 2 Enhanced give you roughly 1 Complex. Do 2 Complex and see what happens. I know you already see the lack of kick. Aeon Amadi recorded it and showed it how it's working just last night.
Jathniel G I A N T 151	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:00:00 - [13] - Quote lol here's a question to help drive the point for the weapon's kick. This question is for anyone that seems to think referencing real-life matters. Who invented the Burst Assault Rifle concept, and why? Answer that, and you'll know why the Assault Rifle here in Dust is OP. You use real-life to reason right?
Jathniel G I A N T 153	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:10:00 - [14] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: It's not the AR it's the god damn Sharpshooter skill. Without the skill the AR is a CQC-mid range weapon. With sharpshooter the AR can have more range than a laser rifle, and the almost no recoil makes it OP. Fixed that for you. This is a powerful point, as well. +1 When we first moved to TQ, Ambush was Heaven. Everyone's ranges were properly balanced (excluding SMGs... poor things need a range buff...) Sniper's sniped. Heavies stomped and sprayed. Assaults could only shoot and HIT what they could actually see (as opposed to now, where you can hit things that are so far away they are hidden by your iron sight... talk about excessive range). Once Sharpshooter started maxing out, all kinds of buffoonery began. HMGs with excessive range. ARs with excessive range. That explains the range and lots of the kick, but... Still doesn't exclude the AR from some damage mitigation. More reviews for the output with damage mods. There has to be a compromise of some sort that can be reached between it's basic dps, and it's damage-modded dps, because the damage-modded dps for it is just too high.
Jathniel G I A N T 153	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:16:00 - [15] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: I just stated that the lack of recoil is a problem, as for the stacking I'll try it out Stacking is working as intended, no problems there. Its only a display bug. I wasn't suggesting it didn't, I just don't believe it becomes op You'll see. Took an assault rifle, type-2 assault suit, and 2 complex damage mods and ran a 21-2, just earlier.
Jathniel G I A N T 154	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:22:00 - [16] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: If every weapon gained noticeable range from sharpshooter how is that a problem? It's a tiny bonus which is how I know you're bsing about the range (4 to five isn't a big difference) Some have claimed that Sharpshooter essentially stretches your firing cone, increasing your effective range. This has obvious effects on the alleged kick, outside of the actual operation skill. Sure wish we had some Dev feedback on the topic, to really get the iron word on this for certainty.
Jathniel G I A N T 157	Posted - 2013.04.07 21:08:00 - [17] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Assault Rifles versus... Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder. It makes me sad that no one has had fun times learning to CQC with a sniper yet. I've been trying, my friend. I really have. I can actually hit them now, in cqc, with an SR. But I can't out-dps those guys that just happen to see me first, in that fraction of a moment. I find myself running a Tac AR in Ambush, and doing much better with it, when landing headshots, and still having some CQC ability when needed. sigh I digress, you're right. Keep trying. @Moderator: This is my third or fourth time requesting this thread be locked. Please, whenever you get a choice.

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