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[Feedback] One more middle finger at the AR... before May 6.

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Jathniel G I A N T 133	Posted - 2013.04.06 11:44:00 - [1] - Quote RAAAAAAAAGE POST! (All complaints are aimed at the Militia Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle, AND the Assault suit.) [insert four-letter word here] the AR! Cut it's range! Cut it's RoF! Cut it's damage! Make it bleed! Make it's mother cry! Hurt it! And [insert four-letter word here] it's obnoxious defenders! FIRE! BRIMSTONE! They say, "It's not the AR that's OP, it's the damage mods!" Then it's discovered that damage mods are working as intended. The numbers just aren't displaying in the fittings correctly. Makes sense, BUT....! Now the excuse is: "Well if the damage mods are working, it's not the AR that's OP, it's the level design...! Or if it's not the level design, it's the other weapons that need a buff! If it's not that, then it's Heavies that need a buff. Or no, not that, sniper damage needs to be increased!" God frickin dammit... Stop finding every other possible excuse to ignore the truth! The AR is frickin OP! That one weapon is throwing the whole damn Dust experience out of whack! Don't rebalance EVERY other weapon in the game, and demand map redesign, etc etc! For goodness' sake it IS OP...! The AR's imbalance causes nothing but rage, and the obnoxious little OP shield tankers running around with them are worse. 3 shots to die to Charge Sniper Rifle rounds? Who made them a Heavy? They use a AR, the easiest thing in the UNIVERSE! But some of them want to call flux grenades OP!? Oh 'CCP Jesus' where art thou??!! Save us from the tyrannical rule of Assaults and the AR!! PLEASE!! I'm tired of myself and countless others calling Bloody Mary on such horrendous imbalance! So many people have done tests and presented the numbers! The truth is so obvious it should make everyone's eyes BLEED. The AR is so OP! The thing practically ruins matches before they even start! It's the most obnoxious, irritating, skill-lacking, use-to-win weapon I have ever seen!! I swear all it needs to do is shoot ORBITALS for it's journey to the Dark Side to be COMPLETE...!!! RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!! tears garments in lamentation! It's OP.... No kick for like half the clip... what genius in his right mind actually thought this thing was balanced when he introduced it as is...? May 6.... Oh man, I'm ONLY hanging on because of May 6... Please CCP, do not make us grow through the LONGEST build ever, just for May 6 to be more of the same. We believe in you Devs! Don't let us down. Get us some balance! Your poor little niche players are counting on you!
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 184	Posted - 2013.04.06 12:05:00 - [2] - Quote I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything. Assault Rifles versus... Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges. HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges. Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder. Laser Rifles? Ditto. Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable. Submachine Guns? Better range and damage. Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly. Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me.
Disposable Meatbag Inertial Defense Systems 20	Posted - 2013.04.06 12:13:00 - [3] - Quote AR does not need a nerf. It sounds like you need to learn how to use a weapon properly and are learning that sharpshooter is a core skill.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 184	Posted - 2013.04.06 12:21:00 - [4] - Quote Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways.
Disposable Meatbag Inertial Defense Systems 20	Posted - 2013.04.06 12:38:00 - [5] - Quote I cant standoff at range against a laser,it melts my butt quickly. I cant short range an HMG,it rips me up. A good MD user makes me hide or run for distance where its harder to hit me. A good sniper can pin me down. Shotguns at close/point blank range is instant death. Ofcourse all this also is affected by the SP supporting the weapon/dropsuit a player is using. You are screaming without all the facts.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 108	Posted - 2013.04.06 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything. Assault Rifles versus... Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges. HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges. Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder. Laser Rifles? Ditto. Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable. Submachine Guns? Better range and damage. Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly. Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me. I agree with you to an extent, but your examples are wrong Shotguns:are meant for CQC HMG: meant for medium to close range Sniper rifles:MEANT for LONG RANGE COMBAT. Come on LR: ditto Mass Drivers: meant to force players to cover, then arc over, not direct confrontation Smg:secondary weapon Scrambler pistol:ditto Forge gun: it's an AV weapon for god's sake, why do you think I'm not shooting people with swarm launchers. But ARs do need a recoil buff and slightly less damage
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 214	Posted - 2013.04.06 13:33:00 - [7] - Quote AR need TRUE recoil, not this fake recoil we have now.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 23	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:08:00 - [8] - Quote AR's are fine... If you see the scores I get with my K-10; you would be asking to nerf the scrambler pistols. Please stop your belly aching and learn how to specialize in a role. AR's are OK at everything, though, master no range. A good shotgunner or machine gunner will eat an AR user up in seconds; as long as it's CQC. A good sniper or laser user will eat them up fast, as long as it's long range. Is there 1 weapon that is not being put on the nerf wagon, on a daily basis?
Cat Merc OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 413	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:22:00 - [9] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything. Assault Rifles versus... Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges. HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges. Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder. Laser Rifles? Ditto. Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable. Submachine Guns? Better range and damage. Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly. Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me. Shoftguns OHK. HMG shreds anyone apart at close range. An AR can't even hit at SR range. The laser rifle is overpowered, refer to other posts. Mass Drivers are for area denial, and they do that well. SMG's actually have around the same DPS. Plus its a secondary, the **** do you want. Forge gun is for vehicles, last time I checked the AR can't scratch a vehicle. Scrambler pistol is a secondary, and if doing headshots does far more DPS.
Cat Merc OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 413	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:25:00 - [10] - Quote AR is jack of all trades master of none. All other weapons outdo it when used properly. For example, a LR can gloss over me with 550HP and insta kill me, just like that. Sniper rifles can OHK me with a headshot, or damage me very badly in the body. etc' AR is the weapon the rest are balanced around, **** off already.

limit rush L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 2	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:42:00 - [11] - Quote Lol. Ar are fine.. all other weapons have there specialties. Ar is meant to be average at everything. That's where individual skills come into play. We have skill progression for a reason.. why don't you just start making threads calling out individuals as being op bc the skill is what you can't handle.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 574	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:21:00 - [12] - Quote I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills. Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit. Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring. We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 112	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:25:00 - [13] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills. Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit. Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring. We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month. I think the reason most people go for assault and AR is because they're too scared to try anything else. I would try using MDs and LRs, but I don't want to spend my hard earned SP on something I may end up sucking with.
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:00:00 - [14] - Quote The AR is broken, and it breaks the game. Even after damage mods have exposed as properly balanced, some people still say that the AR is fine. Can you see through your own bias? Doing well with a sniper rifle in an ambush for me is hit or miss. I'll go 2-3, when it's bad match, and spend the rest of the match running away from pursuers because it's so frickin cramped. But give me an assault rifle and suddenly i'll do like 15-3 if its BAD match, then 20-0 or 30-4. That's not skill. That's use-to-win! I deliberately avoid using the full-auto AR, because it is too easy, and I HATE playing that role. I despise it. I abhor and detest it. Aim with no consequence, fire with no consequence. Run around killing with impunity. Nothing stops it. (Except a REALLY sucky set of blueberries) Assault role is so imbalanced vs. everyone else it makes me want to pull my hair out. It's TOO easy to play as an assault. Way too easy. The AR doesn't have average performance in every area it has excellent performance in every area. It owns EVERYTHING, all you need is a pinch of aim, and you'll ruin everyone's day. I've already done it. I call myself a niche player, but I'm at Proficiency 3 with my AR. The weapon is a joke, and the moment some niche player succeeds in embarrassing someone that relies on the shield-tank Assault/AR fit, they come to the forums to complain. It's OP. I pray that we get a slew of utility weapons to poop on the Assault role AND the AR come May 6. There are no individuals that are OP with the Assault role. Focus on killing them, and they will die. Trust me, I KNOW this. It's the ease of the role itself that's OP. If you find some individuals OP as Assaults, then ask them why they never play any other role... they will likely tell you 1 or/both of 2 things: 1. They suck at the other roles. 2. They think the other roles are next to useless, with the exception of logi. That's it. The good players won't do any other roles, because the other roles simply suck by comparison of usefulness. You have some good determined Heavies that put on a good show ( I literally remember seeing one in an allied corp dance around in an open field during a practice corp match, desperately trying not to get shot. lol it was hilarious, because he was semi-successful). But currently it feels as if the game is so geared toward making life swell for the Assault role.... Whatever, I drop the argument like a hot potato, here and now. I said I was going to drop this until May 6. So there it goes... PLOP
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:01:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I'm tired of nerd threads. We just need more racial ARs with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Currently the Gallente AR has no real weaknesses, even more so with sharpshooter skills. Once there is more variety in infantry weapons and they tweak the skill systems a bit the problem should be alleivated a bit. Just to be clear, I think the problem is that it seems that most people use the same gun on the same suit (AR on the type 2 assault) because it's affective. It's also boring. We need more variety, and we also need to shut the hell up as the game will be changed immensely next month. Yes. This^ Topic dropped. This. +1
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2671	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:04:00 - [16] - Quote Sniping is easier than playing with an AR ARs are fine for the most part
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 14	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:06:00 - [17] - Quote Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It sounds like you need to learn how to use a weapon properly and are learning that sharpshooter is a core skill. I agree, I hate getting caught on the wrong end of an AR but the weapon handles as well as the user is skilled. Just think, if you put as many SP into the AR to make you feel comfortable paying 70k+ isk for an AR then you too could use a Militia variant like a PRO!
Jaric Kieranson Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:29:00 - [18] - Quote slypie11 wrote: I think the reason most people go for assault and AR is because they're too scared to try anything else. I would try using MDs and LRs, but I don't want to spend my hard earned SP on something I may end up sucking with. It's still BETA, mate. Now is the best time to try different builds so when the game goes live, and skill are invariably reset, you can then spec into what you really want instead of just wondering forevermore.
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:34:00 - [19] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Sniping is easier than playing with an AR ARs are fine for the most part Sorry, Mavado-san. My main gripe is the fully automatic ARs. I think their MAX effective/accuracy range should be 65m, and past that, you have a hard time hitting anyone. You want to get more range, use the TAR or BurstAR. Now those two are some well-balanced ARs. I've been using the TAR regularly, despite the kick complaint. I'm happy it has the kick actually. It would be totally OP without it. I don't even snipe with a SR in ambush anymore. I just snipe with the TAR, and it's about as effective as a Tactical SR body hit when you score a headshot, and it's still just out of full-auto AR range. I hate full-auto ARs. For all that DPS and accuracy and range. It's too much. I really don't want to pick this up. That weapon makes me miserable. Has nothing to do with 'knowing how to fight against it', that implies there being a weakness to exploit. Something can't be that easy, to use, then someone claim it's skilled-based. We're at the "wrong end" of weapons all the time, but this weapon... has made this game hell for me ever since the red zone increase.
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:35:00 - [20] - Quote In fact, moderators, please close this thread. I wanted to give my feedback, not start a debate. Just lock it, and save it. Had to get the rage off my chest. OP is requesting thread lock.

slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 114	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:35:00 - [21] - Quote Jaric Kieranson wrote: slypie11 wrote: I think the reason most people go for assault and AR is because they're too scared to try anything else. I would try using MDs and LRs, but I don't want to spend my hard earned SP on something I may end up sucking with. It's still BETA, mate. Now is the best time to try different builds so when the game goes live, and skill are invariably reset, you can then spec into what you really want instead of just wondering forevermore. too late, already used all my sp
Jathniel G I A N T 138	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:49:00 - [22] - Quote There's nothing I can debate, and no argument or set of numbers I can present that haven't already been presented. That have made the case. My post was Feedback = Rage Post about an imbalance. Nothing more. Requesting thread lock.
Vectar Locke Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 50	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:56:00 - [23] - Quote Disposable Meatbag wrote: I cant standoff at range against a laser Even with maxed out sharpshooter and 3 levels of proficency I still find Duvolles shooting me near the max of my laser range and hitting me and since they don't have a heat up penalty very frequently that ends badly for me. They might not be doing max damage at that range, but they're still packing a hell of a lot more punch than a cold laser rifle.
CYRAX SERVIUS Planetary Response Organisation 48	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:25:00 - [24] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I agree that the assault rifle is overpowered. Niches be damned, assault rifle users say. Assault rifle users don't care about niches! They care about effectiveness! Where do you draw the line? The assault rifle just does too well against everything. Assault Rifles versus... Shotguns? Easily has more DPS at most ranges. HMGs? Easily has much more accuracy and damage at longer ranges. Sniper Rifles? There's no comparison at close range, only murder. Laser Rifles? Ditto. Mass Drivers? Far more reliable and predictable. Submachine Guns? Better range and damage. Scrambler Pistol? Doesn't require headshots to murder someone, and better range surprisingly. Forge Gun? Now you are just humoring me. First word, Assault, made for attacking or advancing. Second word, Rifle, firearm capable of delivering large damage rounds down range with increased accuracy. Get over it people, please.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1081	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:33:00 - [25] - Quote the TAR and Burst variants are both just about right... which is why most AR users say "don't use TAR or Burst, they suck". Scale back the regular full auto variants to be more in line with the adjustments already made to the TAR and Burst and you've got a balanced weapon.
Jathniel G I A N T 146	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:39:00 - [26] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: the TAR and Burst variants are both just about right... which is why most AR users say "don't use TAR or Burst, they suck". Scale back the regular full auto variants to be more in line with the adjustments already made to the TAR and Burst and you've got a balanced weapon. +1 Me and a buddy been using TARs all day, and doing quite well. The TAR and Burst are balanced. The full-autos aren't.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 457	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:09:00 - [27] - Quote Disposable Meatbag wrote: I cant standoff at range against a laser,it melts my butt quickly. I cant short range an HMG,it rips me up. A good MD user makes me hide or run for distance where its harder to hit me. A good sniper can pin me down. Shotguns at close/point blank range is instant death. Ofcourse all this also is affected by the SP supporting the weapon/dropsuit a player is using. You are screaming without all the facts. Bull kitten. All you need is a Duvolle AR (SHORT to midrange weapon) sharpshooter L3 and you can outdistance a laser rifle user sharpshooter L5. AR is NOTbalanced and needs a range cut.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 682	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:24:00 - [28] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways. Not when that weapon is used in it's niche
Jathniel G I A N T 149	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:53:00 - [29] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways. Not when that weapon is used in it's niche The full-auto ARs are the black sheep that the power hungry love. MLT Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are the OP ones. (The Officer Assault Rifles can stay.) There is literally no other weapon or device in this game as imbalanced as those. People literally tell me, "there is nothing the TAR or Burst can do, that I can't do with the full-auto." and THAT is the problem, and the sign of imbalance. Niches be damned. Shoot, I say just wipe the full-auto variants completely, and make a fully-automatic firing mode for the Burst and Tactical variants, without changing their clip size. Keep kick for the Burst and Tac the same. OR Reduce the rate of fire to 500rpm, increase kick to the same as the Burst, and... reduce max effective range to 65-70m. That would be balanced.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 682	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:01:00 - [30] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Disposable Meatbag wrote: AR does not need a nerf. It somehow outcompetes every other weapon in multiple ways. Not when that weapon is used in it's niche The full-auto ARs are the black sheep that the power hungry love. MLT Assault Rifle, Assault Rifle, GEK-38 Assault Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are the OP ones. (The Officer Assault Rifles can stay.) There is literally no other weapon or device in this game as imbalanced as those. People literally tell me, "there is nothing the TAR or Burst can do, that I can't do with the full-auto." and THAT is the problem, and the sign of imbalance. Niches be damned. Shoot, I say just wipe the full-auto variants completely, and make a fully-automatic firing mode for the Burst and Tactical variants, without changing their clip size. Keep kick for the Burst and Tac the same. OR Reduce the rate of fire to 500rpm, increase kick to the same as the Burst, and... reduce max effective range to 65-70m. That would be balanced. Try giving proof that it's unbalanced



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