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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.16 13:14:00 - [61] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: There's only the one grenade size type as it stands now and everybody gets one... All grenades are "small", but different suits have different grenade slots. The "higher" slots allow fitting "smaller" grenades, just like you can fit a Light Weapon into Heavy Weapon slot
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 287	Posted - 2013.05.16 13:32:00 - [62] - Quote hydraSlav's wrote: Chankk Saotome wrote: There's only the one grenade size type as it stands now and everybody gets one... All grenades are "small", but different suits have different grenade slots. The "higher" slots allow fitting "smaller" grenades, just like you can fit a Light Weapon into Heavy Weapon slot Just looked at my suits and noticed it DOES say, "Infantry Medium Capacity Grenade" on my Logi suits, Small on the Dragonfly, and Large on the Skinweave Heavy. Good catch. Also, as for precise numbers, those are awesome useful. Only confirming. I shouldn't be as lazy as I have done. Just wish I had my proto logi suit to get up to 4 modules. 3 from the Advanced isn't really enough data points but can confirm at least. It's not that I don't trust you, I just like to have my own data to back it up is all. Gonna be a kitten and a half to get these functions done up and then merged into skill effect bonuses... blegh blegh blegh. Working with modules I don't have skills for though (of which there aren't many) to give me a decent baseline curve. I'm sure there's something to express that 2.22292081 you've found there. I'll get to it eventually. Feeling better now that people are getting off the "BURN ALL LOGIs!" train with PC gone live and better things to worry about.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.16 14:25:00 - [63] - Quote Oh no no, i didn't come up with this formula. I was using widely-accepted EvE knowledge for that. There are tons of sites that quote that formula, for example the EvE Uni http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stacking_penalties However, i just came across a very well written paper about the stacking penalty here (it's a PDF) http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9196.0;attach=3848 That guy goes into deep deep detail about this, how he found it, and number comparisons. His formula is: EXP(-((n-1)^2/7.1289)) With his formula some values are a bit different, but only after the 10th decimal place. Since Dust doesn't even show more than 2 decimal places, it will be impossible to compare which is more accurate. But his results are spot on for EvE. I will probably switch the spreadsheet to his formula, although the results remain same with both. Quote: Maybe I'm not seeing these correctly but just using 3 of the 1.5dn Myofibril Stimulants I go, 110.00 > 137.5 > 167.38 > 191.25, Absolute bonuses per module of 27.5, 29.88 (an increase), and finally 23.87 (expected decrease below first module's bonus). Something doesn't seem quite right here... That doesn't seem right at all. Are you sure you've used the same module all 3 times?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 287	Posted - 2013.05.16 22:20:00 - [64] - Quote Yes, 3 modules all the same... Same for militia cardiac regulator Stamina: 120 base > 150 > 182.59 > 208.64, Absolute gains: 30 > 32.59 > 26.05 Sta recovery: 12 base> 18 > 25.82 > 33.19, Absolute gains: 6 > 7.82, 7.37 (still above original increase?? militia shield recharger 20 base > 23 > 26 > 28.22, absolute gains: 3 > 3 > 2.22 I don't even think these all fit the same graph... I'm wondering if they messed up and rather than decreasing based off the original it decreases a % based on the Absolute... which could explain this. But that's just bad function writing by some programmer somewhere using incorrect variables.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.17 02:42:00 - [65] - Quote Base stamina: 200 Module: Militia Cardiac Regulator Stamina bonus: 25% In game: 200 > 250 > 304.32 200 * (1+(0.251)) (1+(0.250.869119980603939)) = 200 1.25 * 1.21727999515098475 = 304.3199987877461875 =~ 304.32 Exactly what the game shows Note that if you use rounded 2 decimal point values for stacking, the results are NOT accurate. 200 * (1+(0.251)) (1+(0.250.87) = 200 1.25 * 1.2175 = 304.375 =~ 304.36 See, the above is not what the game shows. Lets look at your results again: 120 base > 150 > 182.59 > 208.64 Now lets break them in reverse 150/120 = 1.25 = 25% module 1 182.59/150 = 1.21727 = 21.727% module 2 208.64/182.59 = 1.14266 = 14.266% module 3 Now what it would have been had we followed the formula: 0.25 * 1 = 0.25 = 25% module 1 0.25 * 0.869119980603939 = 0.217279995200099 = 21.727% module 2 0.25 * 0.570583142994654 = 0.14264578587764 = 14.265 % module 3 As you see, everything matches, besides that 0.001 difference on module 3. This is due to the fact that the numbers we see in-game are rounded off. Therefore, when we extrapolated the per-module percentages from the numbers you posted, those numbers were already off due to fitting screen rounding. Proof? Let's take the correct values above, and apply the maths to them: 120 * 1.25 = 150 (same what you see in-game) 150 * 1.217279995200099 =182.59199928001485 (in-game correctly rounds to182.59, which is what you see, but the full value is used further in the formula) 182.59199928001485 * 1.14264578587764 = 208.637978512282045338019482954 (in-game correctly rounds to 208.64) So everything is spot on.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 287	Posted - 2013.05.17 09:04:00 - [66] - Quote hydraSlav's wrote: THERE BE MATH UP IN THIS KITTEN RIGHT HERE! So everything is spot on. I apologize for always "tl;dr" re-quoting you. I do it a lot so you're not alone. Yeah, I figured this too... and everything IS spot on... if modules are affecting a cumulative total statistic and not only each affecting the base stat independently which is what I would have expected.
WOLF T The Exemplars Gentlemen's Agreement 6	Posted - 2013.05.18 02:50:00 - [67] - Quote is the dust fitting up to date for that changes that were made in uprising and the release of stuff on the 14th yet? if so where can i download the app from?
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:06:00 - [68] - Quote WOLF T wrote: is the dust fitting up to date for that changes that were made in uprising and the release of stuff on the 14th yet? if so where can i download the app from? I am releasing the updated version today. It will have the data from the data-dump CCP provided for may 6th release + 10% damage increase (from may 14th) to everything but Grenades and Nova Knives + The new weapons (Scrambler Rifle, Plasma Cannon, Flaylock Pistol I will be adding weapon ranges from Musta Tornius is the update after this one. The link will be same as what's posted on the OP (which is currently unavailable) Also, just to be clear: this isn't an app, this is spreadsheet, albeit a nice looking one ;)
WOLF T The Exemplars Gentlemen's Agreement 6	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:13:00 - [69] - Quote oh ok either way its a very valuable tool, i just thought it was like the eve fitting tool app
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.18 17:40:00 - [70] - Quote Released Uprising version 3.0.0 - May 18th (Uprising data) Implemented Uprising Skills and bonuses Implemented 'Role' attributes and bonuses to Dropsuits Implemented 'Role' bonuses for Modules Implemented 'Role' bonuses for Weapons Implemented 5th High and Low slots Implemented new slots for Saved Fittings and updated Save/Load functions Implemented new Attributes for Weapons Implemented Equipment attributes (on Advanced Fitting Tool only for now) Implemented Uprising Dropsuits, Modules and Weapon stats Implemented Star () for inaccurate/incomplete Dropsuits and Weapons Removed Chromosome predefined starter characters Removed Chromosome predefined starter fits Removed unused Module attribute calculations in an effort to speed up performance Removed gridlines from Simple Fitting Tool to give it a more 'app-like' view Fixed '% Armor Repair' attribute typo Fixed 4th High Slot on Simple Fitting Tool displaying incorrect CPU/PG/Cost summary Fixed Damage Skills for Forge Gun, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Swarm Launcher and Flaylock to increase Splash Damage as well Notes:* Note that there is no point in importing your previous Saved Fittings and Characters. They are not valid for Uprising. Also, considering the big differences between Chromosome and Uprising, if you try to use "Import" buttons it won't work. I am missing the weapon Ranges and Optimals in this release. I will get them added ASAP. I did not get a chance to do a lot of testing for this release in favor of getting this out sooner. Some of the things i am not sure about: - The rounding on Armor Repairer skills (Amarr Logistics Dropsuits and Armor Repair Systems) . If you have a repairer that does 2 HP/s, and a skill that gives you 5%, you get 2.1 HP/s. Does the game only give you 2? Or does it round up to 3? - The rounding on the Clip Size skills (Minmatar Assault Dropsuits and Swarm Launcher Operation) Again, if you have a swarm launcher with clip size 2, and a skill that gives you 10%, you get 2.2 Does the game give clipsize of 2 or rounded up to 3? - Also, i didn't get a chance to test what's considered "explosives" for the purposes of the Explosives skill. Grenades and REs both have this skill as a requirement, so i am considering Grenades and REs as explosives. Please post bugs and discrepancies that you find here. I will address them immediately.

Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 14	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:46:00 - [71] - Quote Thank you very much
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 112	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:40:00 - [72] - Quote Mechoj Nomreps wrote: Thank you very much
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:18:00 - [73] - Quote I don't know if its just me being silly, but your stacking penalties for armor and sprint mods don't work TOGETHER. Individually, their numbers work properly, but as soon as I had 1 sprint mod on top of some armor plates it jumps up 1+movement speed. Also I'm pretty sure the stats for most suits are funny, I've only checked the Minmatar Mk.0 and the Gallente Gk.0 but their base PG are 'off'. Great job on this btw thanks.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 126	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:23:00 - [74] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: I don't know if its just me being silly, but your stacking penalties for armor and sprint mods don't work TOGETHER. Individually, their numbers work properly, but as soon as I had 1 sprint mod on top of some armor plates it jumps up 1+movement speed. Also I'm pretty sure the stats for most suits are funny, I've only checked the Minmatar Mk.0 and the Gallente Gk.0 but their base PG are 'off'. Great job on this btw thanks. I am gonna look into armor plate + speed mod. However i was not able to find any PG values off for any Gk.0 or Mk.0 (and i've just checked them all in-game). The data comes from CCP's data-dump. Now, are you talking about suit base (i've just checked, they're correct)? Or what you see in-game without any mods fitted (i.e. after all your skills before mods)? If the latter, please note this "Known Issue" "hydraSlav's" wrote: - There is a bug on CCPs end where sometimes after skills are applied in-game it shows 1 less CPU and/or PG than you should have. Prime example: Militia Heavy CPU. Base value is 180. Circuitry skill gives 5% increase. 5% of 180 is 9. At circuitry LVL4, you should have 20% increase, or +36. Total should be 216 CPU, yet in-game it always shows 215. I've chosen this example in particular to show that this is not a rounding issue. I've tried creating threads in Bugs forum, I've created an official bug report, I've even petitioned this. I got a canned response that the game is in beta and discrepancies are expected and will be fixed "in future builds". The only way this maths can work is if the base CPU for Militia Heavy is really 179.5, and the calculation uses full values while the fitting screen rounds off. But I could not get CCP to confirm/deny this. Please let me know exactly what issue you are seeing
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming EoN. 242	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:34:00 - [75] - Quote I'm seeing 78PG base, I was under the impression they were 70PG base, I might be wrong I haven't played on the new build :(
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 131	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:41:00 - [76] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: I don't know if its just me being silly, but your stacking penalties for armor and sprint mods don't work TOGETHER. Individually, their numbers work properly, but as soon as I had 1 sprint mod on top of some armor plates it jumps up 1+movement speed Ok so in-game, using Militia Gallente Medium Frame Base Sprint: 7 Militia Armor Plates penalty: -3% Militia Kinetic Catalyzer: 5% In-game Base + 2 armor plates: 7 > 6.79 > 6.61 Which matches: 7 * (1+ (-0.031) (1+ (-0.030.87) 7 0.97 * 0.9739 = 6.612781 ~= 6.61 (matches what the game shows) There is one important lesson here: *module penalties are* affected by stacking penalty** Cause if not: 7 * 0.97 * 0.97 = 6.5863 (does not match in-game) Next, let's add the speed mod In-game Base + 2 armor plates + 1 speed mod: 7 > 6.79 > 6.61 > 6.94 ================= If we take our mods, and arrange them with highest bonus first (the correct way), we get: 5%, -3% -3% 7 * (1+ (0.051) (1+ (-0.030.87) (1+ (-0.030.57) 7 1.05 * 0.9739 * 0.9829 =~ 7.04 (which what the spreadsheet shows) However the game shows differently. Even if we change the order: -3%,-3%, 5% 7 * (1+ (-0.031) (1+ (-0.030.87) (1+ (0.050.57) 7 0.97 * 0.9739 * 1.0285 =~ 6.80 (still different from the game) We already know that module penalties do get stacking penalty, but just for theorizing, if no stacking penalty is applied to module penalties: 7 * 0.97 * 0.97 * 1.05 =~ 6.92 (close, but still not it) The only way i could make it work is if the movement penalty stacks separate from sprint bonus 5%, (-3% and -3% stacked separately) 7 * 1.05 * (1+ (-0.031) (1+ (-0.030.87) 7 1.05 * 0.97 * 0.9739 =~ 6.94 (this finally matches what the game shows) ================== I don't have a 4-low-slot suit. Can someone get the in-game numbers with 2 armor plates and 2 kinetic catalyzers so we can confirm the numbers (please indicate the suit and the modules used)? It could be another error on CCP's part. It's not like it hasn't happened before: damage mods wrong, base CPU/PG after skills wrong. The good news: armor plates and kinetic catalyzers are the only module that i know of where penalty and bonus overlap, so it's only one scenario. The bad news: armor plates and kinetic catalyzers are the only module that i know of where penalty and bonus overlap, so getting a confirmation with another scenario is impossible, and short of petitioning CCP for reply, we are simply guessing.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 131	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:02:00 - [77] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: I'm seeing 78PG base, I was under the impression they were 70PG base, I might be wrong I haven't played on the new build :( I can confirm they are correctly 78PG in the data-dump and in-game.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 119	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:12:00 - [78] - Quote not sure if it's just me but every grenade has 0/0 CPU/PG
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 131	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:10:00 - [79] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: not sure if it's just me but every grenade has 0/0 CPU/PG Hmm... you are right. The data-dump did not contain CPU/PG fitting requirements for any weapons, so i had to collect them all by hand. Guess i got distracted when doing the nades and never finished it. I will update that soon. In the meanwhile, you can go to DataWeapons sheet, and just enter the values manually for the nades that you use (scroll far right to get to nades)
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 682	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:45:00 - [80] - Quote Also note that the Dren Sentinel Suit is not correct in that it lists it as having 0 module slots (both high and low), but you can get around this with just using the A-1 sentinel for now (or enter the data) edit: appears to be same for all dren

hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 133	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:50:00 - [81] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Also note that the Dren Sentinel Suit is not correct in that it lists it as having 0 module slots (both high and low), but you can get around this with just using the A-1 sentinel for now (or enter the data) edit: appears to be same for all dren Damn, i was supposed to mark those Drens with a star () indicating they have incomplete stats. This is what happens when you work till 3am for a week... All weapons/mods/suits marked with a star () have incomplete stats. The data-dump did not have slot information for any suits. Chankk was kind enough to provide stats for most suits You have the slot stats for these suits, please post them here. Quafe' Scout G-I Quafe' Scout gk.0 Dren' Scout G-I Covenant' Assault C-I Dren' Assault C-I Templar' Assault A-I Dren' Logistics M-I Templar' Logistics A-I Dren' Sentinel A-I Templar' Sentinel A-I I will make a thread in GD asking community for missing stats (not just suits, weapons too). If you guys could bump it there, we would get more responses and get this filled quicker
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 133	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:58:00 - [82] - Quote hydraSlav's wrote: Greasepalms wrote: not sure if it's just me but every grenade has 0/0 CPU/PG Hmm... you are right. The data-dump did not contain CPU/PG fitting requirements for any weapons, so i had to collect them all by hand. Guess i got distracted when doing the nades and never finished it. I will update that soon. In the meanwhile, you can go to DataWeapons sheet, and just enter the values manually for the nades that you use (scroll far right to get to nades) Grenades are fixed in 3.0.1 Fixed Grenades missing CPU/PG/ISK stats Fixed 'Repair Tools' separator in the correct spot before Repair Tools Added star (*) to Dropsuits that are missing slot stats
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 684	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:45:00 - [83] - Quote Might want to look at those grenades again... I think you may have sneezed at some point O,o
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 133	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:49:00 - [84] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Might want to look at those grenades again... I think you may have sneezed at some point O,o edit: also I can confirm that slot stats for Dren Sentinel is same as Sentinel A-1. I can also confirm the Dren Assault is equivalent to Assault C-1 for slots. I believe you can confidently use the Tier 1 role stats for all Dren suits. Templar suits are currently not released, only the Templar Uplink. I did I sneezed and misaligned the names with the stats Fixed in 3.0.2 If you guys don't want to reimport your skills/fittings, and you manually fix it by going to DataWeapons tab, scrolling to far right, and moving all grenade names (just the names) to the right by 1 cell. BTW, while on topic of grenades, someone please check the effect of Explosives skill. It's supposed to reduce CPU of Explosives, but i've read someone that it doesn't in-game. Any confirmation? Thanks for info on the Dren suits.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 684	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:52:00 - [85] - Quote Also... cough... you may want to look at saved fitting slots on low side. It saves it correctly but when recovered, my low module in slot 1 (bottom) was moved to slot 3 (middle) note: nvm it does break stuff. Slot 3 is not recovered when loading, it just uses slot 1
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:47:00 - [86] - Quote hydraslav feel free to pirate my spreadsheet if it will make your work easier for skill prereqs and calculating sp totals. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjhtV2Pl_-oLdHpGek8zRjd4R183NE9sV09tWU03bnc&usp=sharing Original thread (most recent): https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=835812#post835812
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 134	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:51:00 - [87] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Also... cough... you may want to look at saved fitting slots on low side. It saves it correctly but when recovered, my low module in slot 1 (bottom) was moved to slot 3 (middle) note: nvm it does break stuff. Slot 3 is not recovered when loading, it just uses slot 1 I should hire you as my QA Fixed in 3.0.3 Pretty much all of low slots were mixed up after i added the 5th. The good news is that the saving was correct, so you can still reuse your existing saved fits.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 134	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:57:00 - [88] - Quote Driftward wrote: hydraslav feel free to pirate my spreadsheet if it will make your work easier for skill prereqs and calculating sp totals. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjhtV2Pl_-oLdHpGek8zRjd4R183NE9sV09tWU03bnc&usp=sharing Original thread (most recent): https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=835812#post835812 Nice work. Oh and i've been using your formatted data-dump from here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjhtV2Pl_-oLdExRYnM2TFpOaVN6bC1zdS13RmZPa3c#gid=0 Someone linked it to me, didn't know who the owner was in Dust, until now when i saw the same name on that spreadsheet and the one you just linked. So now that i know: credits are up :)
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 686	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:00:00 - [89] - Quote Also while we're chatting https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzUO1IiyrFYdDdyNFJwakRzeFRuTnU2RTVuUWoySkE&usp=sharing Check the back 2 sheets, feel free to discard or use as you like Currently I use the Manual Calculations to try and compare suits but if you put in a suit compare tool I am intending to upgrade that. Also the graphing only goes to 17 seconds mostly because google was fighting me and I had to keep manually editing the fields rather than it guessing the sequence
Byozuma Kegawa The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 46	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:48:00 - [90] - Quote What is the native format of this document? I've tried using it as a Excel spreadsheet, as an open office spreadsheet... none seem to work right.



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