DUST Search - I want my AUR refunded

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

Altina McAlterson wrote:

This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence it wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up.

CCP did say it was a commercial release though...

No they didn't. Representatives might have said that. But the official statement is there has not been a commercial release.

I'm not trying to argue the merits of your case. Look, when the cops find you sitting on top of a dead body with the murder weapon in one hand and a digital recording of you killing the person in 1080P with surround sound you are still the "alleged murder" until a ruling is reached at your trial.

So your statement that there was a commercial release on such and such date is incorrect because you lack the authority to make any official statements on behalf of CCP. You saying it doesn't change anything and will only further obfuscate the issue for people reading the thread.

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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:18:00 - [31] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Frank Devine wrote: When I got the merc pack everything was to be refunded when this game came out of beta, since then I have also spent another 60.00 on AUR and I want it back as promises and I want my 3 day head start that I am suppose to get. 1: The game is not yet "commercially released" which was the wording used in the merc park terms. 2: Please provide evidence that the AUR you purchased had terms which specified that it would be refunded. 3: What three day head start? Wrong it is commercially released. That release was Jan 10, 2013. It can't be both a Beta and commercial release, and multiple CCP representatives have stated in writing, in very clear non-ambigous language, that the game has NOT commercially released. Yes, it really can be beta and commercially released. Where is your proof we are not? I have my proof we are.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 462	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:18:00 - [32] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: anyone who contact support about this issue got the same answer, consistent with information gleaned from talking to devs. This is incorrect. I've already explained why.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:20:00 - [33] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: anyone who contact support about this issue got the same answer, consistent with information gleaned from talking to devs. This is incorrect. I've already explained why. Meet me on IRC and we'll trade logs.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 462	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:22:00 - [34] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: anyone who contact support about this issue got the same answer, consistent with information gleaned from talking to devs. This is incorrect. I've already explained why. Meet me on IRC and we'll trade logs. I'm not going to post petition results verbatim, but I asked a very clear "Are we commercially released, some players have been told we are" and received a direct denial of this as the game's status. I've also raised issues in the petition that, apparently, Sony have said the game is commercially released, and have stressed that these mixed messages need to be cleared up.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:26:00 - [35] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: anyone who contact support about this issue got the same answer, consistent with information gleaned from talking to devs. This is incorrect. I've already explained why. Meet me on IRC and we'll trade logs. I'm not going to post petition results verbatim, but I asked a very clear "Are we commercially released, some players have been told we are" and received a direct denial of this as the game's status. I've also raised issues in the petition that, apparently, Sony have said the game is commercially released, and have stressed that these mixed messages need to be cleared up. Who gave you this denial? Was it a lead GM or higher? If Sony says it's so, Lead GM says it's so, then I think it's a duck.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 463	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:30:00 - [36] - Quote Lol, a lead GM said it was commercially released? That makes it a little more of a clusterkitten. Here's hoping that the "public comment" I've been told is coming clears things up a little more. The petition I've filed was also focusing on explaining that different responses in different contexts can seem dishonest and is pretty troubling. Hopefully they get that.
Winscar Shinobi Better Hide R Die 109	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote I have to agree with NOC on this. When jan 10th rolled around some devs said "open beta" while others said "commercial release" Which is why they removed the "get stuff back on commercial release" stuff, they said it no longer applied.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:33:00 - [38] - Quote This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of a sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence is wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:34:00 - [39] - Quote Also major flub on my part, commercial release was Jan 22, not Jan 10.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:34:00 - [40] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence it wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up. CCP did say it was a commercial release though...

Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:36:00 - [41] - Quote All this talk about whether it's been commercially released and what not... you guys realize that a commercial release just means that it's available to the general public right? So yes, we are in beta, and it is also a commercial release.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:37:00 - [42] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: All this talk about whether it's been commercially released and what not... you guys realize that a commercial release just means that it's available to the general public right? So yes, we are in beta, and it is also a commercial release. True. It's just so sleazy that CCP is trying to hide this fact. Namely because they still want to emphasize it's a beta to shield them from reviews.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:41:00 - [43] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence it wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up. CCP did say it was a commercial release though... No they didn't. Representatives might have said that. But the official statement is there has not been a commercial release. I'm not trying to argue the merits of your case. Look, when the cops find you sitting on top of a dead body with the murder weapon in one hand and a digital recording of you killing the person in 1080P with surround sound you are still the "alleged murder" until a ruling is reached at your trial. So your statement that there was a commercial release on such and such date is incorrect because you lack the authority to make any official statements on behalf of CCP. You saying it doesn't change anything and will only further obfuscate the issue for people reading the thread.
Winscar Shinobi Better Hide R Die 109	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:41:00 - [44] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52274 ^ there is the thread that ccp said they were removing merc pack refunds. It's a good read. Page 3 is the post from ccp.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 463	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:46:00 - [45] - Quote Winscar Shinobi wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52274 ^ there is the thread that ccp said they were removing merc pack refunds. It's a good read. Page 3 is the post from ccp. Yeah, and the criticisms of that post remain valid.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1267	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:47:00 - [46] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence it wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up. CCP did say it was a commercial release though... No they didn't. Representatives might have said that. But the official statement is there has not been a commercial release. I'm not trying to argue the merits of your case. Look, when the cops find you sitting on top of a dead body with the murder weapon in one hand and a digital recording of you killing the person in 1080P with surround sound you are still the "alleged murder" until a ruling is reached at your trial. So your statement that there was a commercial release on such and such date is incorrect because you lack the authority to make any official statements on behalf of CCP. You saying it doesn't change anything and will only further obfuscate the issue for people reading the thread. Good. They've purposely been avoiding a straight answer publicly and I demand to know why. The fact remains that Sony, Customer Support, and CCP devs have all independently supported "commercial release" and no public statement has explicitly denied it.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:47:00 - [47] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: This is one of those things where what it is and what it's called are not the same thing. CCP says it was not a commercial release. You can have all the evidence in the world that it was but until you have a ruling from a court of law of sovereign country with sufficient jurisdiction to try the case your statements that the game is commercially released are wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying your evidence it wrong. I'm just saying it isn't a commercial release until CCP or a judge says it is. You're only going to confuse people if you keep this up. CCP did say it was a commercial release though... No they didn't. Representatives might have said that. But the official statement is there has not been a commercial release. I'm not trying to argue the merits of your case. Look, when the cops find you sitting on top of a dead body with the murder weapon in one hand and a digital recording of you killing the person in 1080P with surround sound you are still the "alleged murder" until a ruling is reached at your trial. So your statement that there was a commercial release on such and such date is incorrect because you lack the authority to make any official statements on behalf of CCP. You saying it doesn't change anything and will only further obfuscate the issue for people reading the thread. If I stab someone, then I stabbed someone, regardless of what I or others say. This became a commercial release the instant it became available to the general public, regardless of what some court somewhere in who knows where says.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:48:00 - [48] - Quote Again, until an official statement is released confirming commercial release of the game then there hasn't been a commercial release. Really not that hard of a concept.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:52:00 - [49] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Again, until an official statement is released confirming commercial release of the game then there hasn't been a commercial release. Really not that hard of a concept. So if I bribe the judge into saying I didn't stab the guy, then I didn't actually stab the guy because it's not "official" right? Sorry, but this is a commercial release, that's a fact.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1268	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:53:00 - [50] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Again, until an official statement is released confirming commercial release of the game then there hasn't been an admittance of commercial release. Really not that hard of a concept. Fixed for you. Strangely enough, they apparently don't have to tell us when they've fulfilled the terms of the sale.

Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:53:00 - [51] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: If I stab someone, then I stabbed someone, regardless of what I or others say. Whether the court finds me guilty or not doesn't change the fact that I am guilty. This became a commercial release the instant it became available to the general public, regardless of what some court somewhere in who knows where says. You have that completely backwards and you're missing the point entirely. If you are found not guilty you are not punished. It doesn't matter whether you did it or not. CCP didn't make an official statement that the game was released commercially. So until CCP or a court of law say otherwise they don't have to do anything. That's what I'm getting at.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 463	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:54:00 - [52] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Again, until an official statement is released confirming commercial release of the game then there hasn't been a commercial release. Really not that hard of a concept. That official statement is only the word of a CCP representative.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 00:57:00 - [53] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: So until CCP or a court of law say otherwise they don't have to do anything. You're ignoring the fact that they did in fact release the game commercially.
ImperfectFan514 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 105	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:02:00 - [54] - Quote I want my AUR refunded for ever BS death i've ever had because CCP has been taking pointers for their spawn system from infinity ward, and have some how found a way to make even worse spawns than the ones found in MW3.
Three Double-A Batteries Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 86	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:05:00 - [55] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: All this talk about whether it's been commercially released and what not... you guys realize that a commercial release just means that it's available to the general public right? So yes, we are in beta, and it is also a commercial release. True. It's just so sleazy that CCP is trying to hide this fact. Namely because they still want to emphasize it's a beta to shield them from reviews. You've got it in one. Weasel words from CCP to protect themselves from reviews. So are we in a beta or are we not? How can CCP take money for a product and not call it a commercial release? How can still be internally reviewing their own T&Cs unless it is just to try to find legal loopholes to avoid doing what they stated? Will they do what they committed to? All of this is beginning to get the whiff or dodgy behaviour to be honest.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:06:00 - [56] - Quote I swear to god are you all f*cking with me? Is this really that hard of a concept? You can point to this and that all damn day and argue about whether or not you can bribe a judge to unstab somebody but the simple fact is that until you take this shite to trial and get a signed court order then the game is in whatever stage CCP says it is and they don't have to do a damn thing if they don't want to do it.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:09:00 - [57] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I swear to god are you all f*cking with me? Is this really that hard of a concept? You can point to this and that all damn day and argue about whether or not you can bribe a judge to unstab somebody but the simple fact is that until you take this shite to trial and get a signed court order then the game is in whatever stage CCP says it is and they don't have to do a damn thing if they don't want to do it. This isn't about the law, this is about people's trust in CCP. Yes, "they don't have to do anything", but it would be nice if they kept their word. All they have to do is admit that this is a Commercial Release, that's all. If I tell you I'm going to give you 5$, do I have to give them to you? No, but would you trust me if I didn't?
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 413	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:13:00 - [58] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I swear to god are you all f*cking with me? Is this really that hard of a concept? You can point to this and that all damn day and argue about whether or not you can bribe a judge to unstab somebody but the simple fact is that until you take this shite to trial and get a signed court order then the game is in whatever stage CCP says it is and they don't have to do a damn thing if they don't want to do it. This isn't about the law, this is about people's trust in CCP. Yes, "they don't have to do anything", but it would be nice if they kept their word. All they have to do is admit that this is a Commercial Release, that's all. If I tell you I'm going to give you 5$, do I have to give them to you? No, but would you trust me if I didn't? No, actually this is about Noc making statements that are going to do nothing but confuse people.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1751	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:17:00 - [59] - Quote You know what, threads like this are getting annoying. CCP, once this game is "commercially released", just refund the AUR and be done with it so that we won't have to deal with this kitten anymore.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:17:00 - [60] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: No, actually this is about Noc making statements that are going to do nothing but confuse people. But what he says is true, whether CCP admits to it or not.



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