Let me clarify, I don't mean right now, I mean when it comes out of beta, just like I want to see the skills reset. My concern is that they are just going to keep rolling the way they are now kinda like how PlayStation home is still in beta and its been like that for several years.

No they didn't. Representatives might have said that. But the official statement is there has not been a commercial release.

I'm not trying to argue the merits of your case. Look, when the cops find you sitting on top of a dead body with the murder weapon in one hand and a digital recording of you killing the person in 1080P with surround sound you are still the "alleged murder" until a ruling is reached at your trial.

So your statement that there was a commercial release on such and such date is incorrect because you lack the authority to make any official statements on behalf of CCP. You saying it doesn't change anything and will only further obfuscate the issue for people reading the thread.

Again, until an official statement is released confirming commercial release of the game then there hasn't been a commercial release. Really not that hard of a concept.

So until CCP or a court of law say otherwise they don't have to do anything.

I swear to god are you all f*cking with me? Is this really that hard of a concept?

You can point to this and that all damn day and argue about whether or not you can bribe a judge to unstab somebody but the simple fact is that until you take this shite to trial and get a signed court order then the game is in whatever stage CCP says it is and they don't have to do a damn thing if they don't want to do it.

No, actually this is about Noc making statements that are going to do nothing but confuse people.

You know what, threads like this are getting annoying. CCP, once this game is "commercially released", just refund the AUR and be done with it so that we won't have to deal with this kitten anymore.

It's a penalty because it disadvantages players who bought the merc pack. The product CCP sold to them was "a merc pack and also a merc pack on resets and on commercial release".

Honouring that agreement should have no bearing on their SP in comparison to that of their peers.

Your description of what the refund was intended for is speculation and stating that CCP decided to change the terms should have no impact on those who entered into the agreement with CCP before those terms were changed.

3. The AUR reset in Chromosome build could easily be the result of either a: reset due to character reset or b: reset due to commercial release. That CCP (sometimes) denies that the game is commercially released suggests the former, leaving a future merc pack redistribution required on commercial release, as per the terms of this agreement.

Yeah, if the game is commercially released, the terms of the original merc pack sales are satisfied... but the denial that we are commercially released makes things troublesome.

Can you link me to where "commercial release" has a universally agreed upon definition in legal agreements?

I'm not going to touch that, because with the time I have to invest in this conversation, all I've got is a wiki link which says otherwise.

Your description of "commercial release" is not my experience with the concept.

EDIT: And they could claim commercial release seven years from now. That's how open beta works.

CCP have stated, in writing, that we are not yet in commercial release. Look back through the dev posts to around the time the other thread about this (linked a page or two back) and see for yourself if you want. In fact, they were actually quite rude and dismissive about the idea that anyone would even consider the beta "commercial release".

Working on your earlier (unsubstantiated) assumption that an AUR refund requires a character reset, I suppose that makes sense.

It's not like we're trying to trick anyone or screw CCP out of anything, we are just asking that they give us ALL of the products we purchased within the spirit of the terms they set rather than them deciding POST-SALE that they no longer want to honor HALF of the freakin' deal that we (their PAYING customers) purchased.

I don't see why in the hell that's too much to ask or why people are getting their panties in a wad over such a request.

Yes, but when purchasing an item you agree to those terms at point of purchase. A term change only effects future purchases.

You don't understand laws well do you?

Then why are you trying to argue something that you don't have a good knowledge of?

Oh wait I forgot this is the Internet XD

You don't understand laws well do you?

In the U.S. the term that "these terms can change" is not legally binding/recognized.

to clarify, when this particular term is in an agreement, it means that people who purchase a product AFTER the terms have changed are not legally entitled to the earlier terms. It does not apply to purchases made before the terms changed, all purchased made prior to said change are bound to the previous terms.

Basically, Joe Public who buys the Merc Pack after they changed the terms can't say "Well, those people got different terms, you OWE me the same deal that they got". A more specific example would be the extra dropsuits that some players received in the Merc Pack. I didn't get them because I bought the Merc Pack too soon, and players who buy the Merc Pack now don't get them because that bonus is now over. We have no legal claim to those suits because the agreement clearly states the terms may change. However, anyone who bought it while those dropsuits were offered are legally entitled to them, even though they are no longer available to others.

make sense now?