DUST Search - I want my AUR refunded

Gunner Nightingale wrote:

Here is the conundrum

*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.

Purchase or use of this item is subject to the PlayStation-«Network Terms of Service and User Agreement and this item's use restrictions. This item has been sublicensed to you by Sony Computer Entertainment America. One-time license fee for downloads to up to 2 console systems that are associated with the purchasing account. Please refer to the DUST 514-« EULA for full terms and conditions on deletion of characters and in-game items upon completion of the beta phase.

-¬2012 CCP hf. All rights reserved. 'CCP', 'DUST 514' and 'EVE Online' are trademarks or registered trademarks of CCP hf in the United States and other jurisdictions. The ESRB ratings icon is a registered trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All other trademarks and trade names are the properties of their respective owners.

PlayStation-«Move features require PlayStation-«Move motion controller and PlayStation-«Eye (sold separately).

Pulled that from gamestop.com regarding their sale of the Merc pack from today. If the terms clearly state i am to get a refund of my AURUM to my character account during each reset and for the commercial release. Those who say we are in commercial release would argue that our AURUM was refunded to us during the wipe prior to open beta and that open beta was commercial release and should have gotten a AURUM refund back to character for COMMERCIAL RELEASE.

The conundrum, CCP has clearly laid the line that there will be no more SP resets. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=619126#post619126

However for everyone maintaining this is still a Beta and not Commercial release the sticky reality is then CCP needs to refund us our AURUM and to do that without SP reset (as they maintain they WILL NOT DO) means lots more SP boosters bought and a wider SP gap.

So either 1/22/13 was commercial release(beta-work in progress is a tagline) and CCP has fullfilled their obligations of the commericial release language was met(though debatable still) or it is not commercial release and CCP finds themselves in a curious pickle..

/thread.

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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1268	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:17:00 - [61] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I swear to god are you all f*cking with me? Is this really that hard of a concept? You can point to this and that all damn day and argue about whether or not you can bribe a judge to unstab somebody but the simple fact is that until you take this shite to trial and get a signed court order then the game is in whatever stage CCP says it is and they don't have to do a damn thing if they don't want to do it. This isn't about the law, this is about people's trust in CCP. Yes, "they don't have to do anything", but it would be nice if they kept their word. All they have to do is admit that this is a Commercial Release, that's all. If I tell you I'm going to give you 5$, do I have to give them to you? No, but would you trust me if I didn't? No, actually this is about Noc making statements that are going to do nothing but confuse people. If anyone is confused it is CCP's fault. They went into commercial release without making a clear, concise public announcement. Why they chose to do that is a debate in-of-itself.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:18:00 - [62] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You know what, threads like this are getting annoying. CCP, once this game is "commercially released", just refund the AUR and be done with it so that we won't have to deal with this kitten anymore. If it doesn't come with a skill reset then no, that would be giving away free boosters. Buy your boosters now everybody, 2 for the price of 1!
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 465	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:23:00 - [63] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: CCP didn't make an official statement that the game was released commercially. So until CCP or a court of law say otherwise they don't have to do anything. That's what I'm getting at. Now I'm not saying "CCP can be legally compelled to redistribute merc pack contents". What I'm saying is: If CCP made an agreement with their players to redistribute the merc pack contents on commercial release AND appear to internally view their game to be commercially released AND have communicated this to Sony AND have representatives who are willing to communicate this information with the playerbase... then they are obliged to give some acknowledgement of this. It is my feeling that this acknowledgement should take the form of the promised material rewards or a denial of the commercial release. They're contractually and morally obliged, not to mention the fact that it's in their best interests when it comes to PR... which is different from being legally compelled. Your argument seems to be "if they want to be dishonest about it, they have the power and you can't do anything about it". A thread expressing dissatisfaction with this viewpoint IS doing something about it. Altina McAlterson wrote: I just don't want people getting confused and thinking they're entitled to this or that or whatever. If they bought the merc pack under the original terms, they're entitled to have it credited to their account on commercial release, whether CCP acknowledge and honour that or not.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 466	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:29:00 - [64] - Quote And if CCP view commercial release to have already occurred at the time of a previous reset, they need to make some official mention of this fact and train their customer response/GM team in communicating this to players.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1751	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:34:00 - [65] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: You know what, threads like this are getting annoying. CCP, once this game is "commercially released", just refund the AUR and be done with it so that we won't have to deal with this kitten anymore. If it doesn't come with a skill reset then no, that would be giving away free boosters. Buy your boosters now everybody, 2 for the price of 1! Tough luck then. CCP said there will be no SP resets. However, I believe CCP Frame mentioned the possibility of an SP reimbursement but it's still an idea on the table.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 386	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:36:00 - [66] - Quote Here is the conundrum *IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Purchase or use of this item is subject to the PlayStation-«Network Terms of Service and User Agreement and this item's use restrictions. This item has been sublicensed to you by Sony Computer Entertainment America. One-time license fee for downloads to up to 2 console systems that are associated with the purchasing account. Please refer to the DUST 514-« EULA for full terms and conditions on deletion of characters and in-game items upon completion of the beta phase. -¬2012 CCP hf. All rights reserved. 'CCP', 'DUST 514' and 'EVE Online' are trademarks or registered trademarks of CCP hf in the United States and other jurisdictions. The ESRB ratings icon is a registered trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All other trademarks and trade names are the properties of their respective owners. PlayStation-«Move features require PlayStation-«Move motion controller and PlayStation-«Eye (sold separately). Pulled that from gamestop.com regarding their sale of the Merc pack from today. If the terms clearly state i am to get a refund of my AURUM to my character account during each reset and for the commercial release. Those who say we are in commercial release would argue that our AURUM was refunded to us during the wipe prior to open beta and that open beta was commercial release and should have gotten a AURUM refund back to character for COMMERCIAL RELEASE. The conundrum, CCP has clearly laid the line that there will be no more SP resets. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=619126#post619126 However for everyone maintaining this is still a Beta and not Commercial release the sticky reality is then CCP needs to refund us our AURUM and to do that without SP reset (as they maintain they WILL NOT DO) means lots more SP boosters bought and a wider SP gap. So either 1/22/13 was commercial release(beta-work in progress is a tagline) and CCP has fullfilled their obligations of the commericial release language was met(though debatable still) or it is not commercial release and CCP finds themselves in a curious pickle.. /thread.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1751	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:36:00 - [67] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: And if CCP view commercial release to have already occurred at the time of a previous reset, they need to make some official mention of this fact and train their customer response/GM team in communicating this to players. This I agree.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:38:00 - [68] - Quote I imagine that the fact that CCP have both stated "no SP resets" and "you will be credited these items again on commercial release" may be in some part responsible for the trouble they're having in addressing this issue. I just wish they would acknowledge that, if it's the case. I want them to say, "hey, this is a difficult situation and we're trying to find a way through it which doesn't needlessly disadvantage the players, while still keeping true to the promises we made them, bear with us as we do what we can to resolve this". Instead, we are getting conflicting advice and boilerplate responses to put petitions querying the matter on hold. EDIT: Or pretty much what Gunner said.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1751	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:42:00 - [69] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Here is the conundrum *IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« GameStop Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Purchase or use of this item is subject to the PlayStation-«Network Terms of Service and User Agreement and this item's use restrictions. This item has been sublicensed to you by Sony Computer Entertainment America. One-time license fee for downloads to up to 2 console systems that are associated with the purchasing account. Please refer to the DUST 514-« EULA for full terms and conditions on deletion of characters and in-game items upon completion of the beta phase. -¬2012 CCP hf. All rights reserved. 'CCP', 'DUST 514' and 'EVE Online' are trademarks or registered trademarks of CCP hf in the United States and other jurisdictions. The ESRB ratings icon is a registered trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All other trademarks and trade names are the properties of their respective owners. PlayStation-«Move features require PlayStation-«Move motion controller and PlayStation-«Eye (sold separately). Pulled that from gamestop.com regarding their sale of the Merc pack from today. If the terms clearly state i am to get a refund of my AURUM to my character account during each reset and for the commercial release. Those who say we are in commercial release would argue that our AURUM was refunded to us during the wipe prior to open beta and that open beta was commercial release and should have gotten a AURUM refund back to character for COMMERCIAL RELEASE. The conundrum, CCP has clearly laid the line that there will be no more SP resets. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=619126#post619126 However for everyone maintaining this is still a Beta and not Commercial release the sticky reality is then CCP needs to refund us our AURUM and to do that without SP reset (as they maintain they WILL NOT DO) means lots more SP boosters bought and a wider SP gap. So either 1/22/13 was commercial release(beta-work in progress is a tagline) and CCP has fullfilled their obligations of the commericial release language was met(though debatable still) or it is not commercial release and CCP finds themselves in a curious pickle.. /thread. Very logical reply. Now that someone put it this way, I can see now how this is a very sticky situation. But CCP didn't dismiss the idea of an SP reimbursement and to be honest there are probably not that many players who bought the merc packs since open beta. So reimbursing the AUR spent back to their characters may not be such a big deal since Dust is just getting started.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 386	Posted - 2013.03.25 01:54:00 - [70] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: [quote=Gunner Nightingale]Here is the conundrum Very logical reply. Now that someone put it this way, I can see now how this is a very sticky situation. But CCP didn't dismiss the idea of an SP reimbursement and to be honest there are probably not that many players who bought the merc packs since open beta. So reimbursing the AUR spent back to their characters may not be such a big deal since Dust is just getting started. Yes but the SP reimbursement language refers more to getting back SP back for things like dropsuits or other skill sets where they introduce new content into similar to what they do EVE side. Even then still the issue becomes it creates a scenario where every individual that has since closed beta to date and more so all merc pack purchases made up to the date of "comercial release" would get aurum refunded and will have reaped the benefits of AURUM bought boosters twice if there isnt a requisite SP wipe to balance it. While this would be an awesome "beta tester reward" (which if the marketing dept is smart will spin this as and save face) it creates it still comes at some sort of cost to the player base because they are getting double their moneys worth out of a single paid item.

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 552	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:32:00 - [71] - Quote This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:35:00 - [72] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. So your position is basically that people who want CCP to honour a purchase agreement that they made with those players, should be penalised for that?
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 552	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:37:00 - [73] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. So your position is basically that people who want CCP to honour a purchase agreement that they made with those players, should be penalised for that? No, it's not a penalty, it's exactly what you asked for. The refund was intended for the reset on commercial release and CCP decided to change the timing of the reset. Why would you think you'd get to skip the reset and just have the refund? Be careful what you ask for, you might actually get it.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1756	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:37:00 - [74] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: [quote=Gunner Nightingale]Here is the conundrum Very logical reply. Now that someone put it this way, I can see now how this is a very sticky situation. But CCP didn't dismiss the idea of an SP reimbursement and to be honest there are probably not that many players who bought the merc packs since open beta. So reimbursing the AUR spent back to their characters may not be such a big deal since Dust is just getting started. Yes but the SP reimbursement language refers more to getting back SP back for things like dropsuits or other skill sets where they introduce new content into similar to what they do EVE side. Even then still the issue becomes it creates a scenario where every individual that has since closed beta to date and more so all merc pack purchases made up to the date of "comercial release" would get aurum refunded and will have reaped the benefits of AURUM bought boosters twice if there isnt a requisite SP wipe to balance it. While this would be an awesome "beta tester reward" (which if the marketing dept is smart will spin this as and save face) it creates it still comes at some sort of cost to the player base because they are getting double their moneys worth out of a single paid item. In that case, take away the AUR-bought BPOs as well but let us keep the event-related items like the 'Quafe' suits and 'skinweaves'.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1757	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:39:00 - [75] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. 1. Salvage has nothing to do with AUR. 2. CCP already confirmed there will be no more SP resets. But again, SP reimbursements are still an idea being considered.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:40:00 - [76] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. So your position is basically that people who want CCP to honour a purchase agreement that they made with those players, should be penalised for that? No, it's not a penalty, it's exactly what you asked for. The refund was intended for the reset on commercial release and CCP decided to change the timing of the reset. Why would you think you'd get to skip the reset and just have the refund? Be careful what you ask for, you might actually get it. It's a penalty because it disadvantages players who bought the merc pack. The product CCP sold to them was "a merc pack and also a merc pack on resets and on commercial release". Honouring that agreement should have no bearing on their SP in comparison to that of their peers. Your description of what the refund was intended for is speculation and stating that CCP decided to change the terms should have no impact on those who entered into the agreement with CCP before those terms were changed.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 552	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:45:00 - [77] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. 1. Salvage has nothing to do with AUR. 2. CCP already confirmed there will be no more SP resets. But again, SP reimbursements are still an idea being considered. Salvage has everything to do with AUR in that AUR has everything to do with a character reset. Why should anything be passed on through a character reset? You get your AUR / merc items plus event items, the rest is reset. That CCP won't reset again was a promise made after the commercial release part of the merc pack, and we all know commercial release means reset of the characters (hence the clause). I think it's going to require some twisting of the term 'commercial release', but I'm sure CCP can be flexible enough to give players who want refund their own personal 'commercial release'. Problem solved.
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 139	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:47:00 - [78] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Originally, the Mercenary Pack stated: IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Merc pack does not say that anymore. You got your AUR reset in Chromosome build.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:48:00 - [79] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Rasatsu wrote: This thread... Fine, I support the position of the guys who want refunded the AUR and merc pack items on commercial release. They should also get all their salvage and SP reset. The rest of us will keep our characters as-is. So your position is basically that people who want CCP to honour a purchase agreement that they made with those players, should be penalised for that? No, it's not a penalty, it's exactly what you asked for. The refund was intended for the reset on commercial release and CCP decided to change the timing of the reset. Why would you think you'd get to skip the reset and just have the refund? Be careful what you ask for, you might actually get it. It's a penalty because it disadvantages players who bought the merc pack. The product CCP sold to them was "a merc pack and also a merc pack on resets and on commercial release". Honouring that agreement should have no bearing on their SP in comparison to that of their peers. Your description of what the refund was intended for is speculation and stating that CCP decided to change the terms should have no impact on those who entered into the agreement with CCP before those terms were changed. He's treating Open Beta as a commercial release, which he's right to do, in which case then CCP has already honored their part of the agreement. They just have to admit that this is a commercial release now.... Honestly, all this confusion stems from CCP not wanting to admit that this is a CR.
lowratehitman Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 417	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:48:00 - [80] - Quote I always wonder when I see these posts like this why "Big Brother" just does not come out from the shadows and settle this stuff straight. I am sure SOMEBODY is watching and reading every thread.....

Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:51:00 - [81] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Originally, the Mercenary Pack stated: IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Merc pack does not say that anymore. You got your AUR reset in Chromosome build. 1. I understand that the merc pack doesn't say that anymore. That's why I opened with "Originally, the Mercenary Pack stated". 2. I didn't get any AUR reset as I'm personally unaffected by this issue. 3. The AUR reset in Chromosome build could easily be the result of either a: reset due to character reset or b: reset due to commercial release. That CCP (sometimes) denies that the game is commercially released suggests the former, leaving a future merc pack redistribution required on commercial release, as per the terms of this agreement.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:53:00 - [82] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: He's treating Open Beta as a commercial release, which he's right to do, in which case then CCP has already honored their part of the agreement. They just have to admit that this is a commercial release now.... Honestly, all this confusion stems from CCP not wanting to admit that this is a CR. Yeah, if the game is commercially released, the terms of the original merc pack sales are satisfied... but the denial that we are commercially released makes things troublesome.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:56:00 - [83] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: 3. The AUR reset in Chromosome build could easily be the result of either a: reset due to character reset or b: reset due to commercial release. That CCP (sometimes) denies that the game is commercially released suggests the former, leaving a future merc pack redistribution required on commercial release, as per the terms of this agreement. Nope, Open Beta is a commercial release, or is the game not available to the General public? Because that's what a commercial release is, not when CCP decides it is.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 02:57:00 - [84] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: He's treating Open Beta as a commercial release, which he's right to do, in which case then CCP has already honored their part of the agreement. They just have to admit that this is a commercial release now.... Honestly, all this confusion stems from CCP not wanting to admit that this is a CR. Yeah, if the game is commercially released, the terms of the original merc pack sales are satisfied... but the denial that we are commercially released makes things troublesome. Again, I can stab a guy and deny I stabbed him, that doesn't mean I didn't stab him.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:01:00 - [85] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Open Beta is a commercial release, or is the game not available to the General public? Because that's what a commercial release is, not when CCP decides it is. Can you link me to where "commercial release" has a universally agreed upon definition in legal agreements? Otherwise, I think someone writing a contract can define things however they choose... CCP just failed to define it at all.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:10:00 - [86] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Can you link me to where "commercial release" has a universally agreed upon definition in legal agreements? Nope, I couldn't find a legal definition, but relying on a loophole is a pretty sketchy thing to do. They could very well claim CR 7 years from now if that's the case. Generally speaking though, software is considered "commercially" released once it's available to the public.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:13:00 - [87] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Can you link me to where "commercial release" has a universally agreed upon definition in legal agreements? Nope, I couldn't find a legal definition, but relying on a loophole is a pretty sketchy thing to do. They could very well claim CR 7 years from now if that's the case. Generally speaking though, software is considered "commercially" released once it's available to the public. I'm not going to touch that, because with the time I have to invest in this conversation, all I've got is a wiki link which says otherwise. Your description of "commercial release" is not my experience with the concept. EDIT: And they could claim commercial release seven years from now. That's how open beta works.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 387	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:14:00 - [88] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Originally, the Mercenary Pack stated: IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Merc pack does not say that anymore. You got your AUR reset in Chromosome build. I wont post the actual wording again just look a few posts up. And here is the link the terms are still the same at Gamestop so what they're are selling an item under two DIFFERENT set of terms and conditions at the same time. That only makes it worse. http://www.gamestop.com/ps3/dlc/dust-514-gamestop-mercenary-pack/106107
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 589	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:21:00 - [89] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Can you link me to where "commercial release" has a universally agreed upon definition in legal agreements? Nope, I couldn't find a legal definition, but relying on a loophole is a pretty sketchy thing to do. They could very well claim CR 7 years from now if that's the case. Generally speaking though, software is considered "commercially" released once it's available to the public. I'm not going to touch that, because with the time I have to invest in this conversation, all I've got is a wiki link which says otherwise. Your description of "commercial release" is not my experience with the concept. EDIT: And they could claim commercial release seven years from now. That's how open beta works. Commercial Release, also known as GA. Look at the Open Beta part, notice how it says "potential consumers", yeah, at this point you are a no longer a "potential" consumer, you/we are consumers.
Mithridates VI The Southern Legion 467	Posted - 2013.03.25 03:25:00 - [90] - Quote The game's release status is at the discretion of the people behind it. Monetising a beta doesn't require a change of release status. And, again, CCP are not following a typical release schedule.



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