lol, did your free LAV go boom?

Im not asking for much ; just make them like the militia forge and make it cost 1200 ISK DONE.
By having a free weapon dealing more damage to one thing makes the game unbalanced.

You must have fitted a weak vehicle if a militia level swarm is making you cry. Also, ever heard of complex damage mods?

You guys are too re-tarded to see that it deals more damage to armor **** wits I know it deal 700 damage to shields but it deals 1700 damage to armor , more than an advanced forge gun.
Learn before you post

it deals more damage to armor **** wits I know it deal 700 damage to shields but it deals 1700 damage to armor , more than an advanced forge gun.
Learn before you post

Im not asking for much ; just make them like the militia forge and make it cost 1200 ISK DONE.
By having a free weapon dealing more damage to one thing makes the game unbalanced.

Ok sorry for not using proper language I understand your replies and will try to explain my point again this time taking care not to use harsh language:

Now my current Madrugar fit has:2800 shield hp and 5200 armor hp with 25% resists and the 7 guys have militia swarms
first 4 guys get through my shields and 3 guys deal around 3500 damage leaving me with 1100 hp.
In this scenario 7 nublet AV guy were behind a hill using peek-a-boo style thing I retreated repped up then came back to my surprise there were now 9 nublets.

For shield tankers I know they are a joke and barely do any damage at all, but having a free suit damage only armor is unbalanced a free fit should be using hybrids (50-50 to both)

Now if we keep doing comparisons a free swarm fit dealing that much damage to a tank is like having a frontline starter fit nublet wipe you out in a adv to proto suit ; remember 1 swarm I tank it off easy , 2 swarms eh I hold up , 3 swarms I retreat, more than that is just too much.

Please post responsibly and try to understand me as I'm doing the same to you.
Thanks.

Lol starter heavies get the militia forge for free

Gusk, it sounds like you're trying to solo nine guys with AV weapons in a vehicle. Is there *any* possible way around that? Such as, getting your team mates to go round in an assault suit and kill them with ARs...? It doesn't matter WHAT tech level the AV weapons are, you really shouldn't try to take on more than one or two in a vehicle.

Hell, I've never been a vehicle player, but that much seems obvious.

Now my current Madrugar fit has:2800 shield hp and 5200 armor hp with 25% resists

In this scenario 7 nublet AV guys were behind a hill using peek-a-boo style thing I retreated repped up then came back to my surprise there were now 9 nublets.

Did you even read my post? Seriously before trying to troll an honest duster get a brain.
I returned from a safe zone back into the battle zone and I found 9 guys , didn't try to solo them or anything.Period.

Sounds like you ran out into a hail of fire, went behind a hill to rep, then went forwards again. Knowing full well they were there. Sounds fairly straightforward to me. Sure, you're stuck, but that's more from good tactics on their part (or bad, as they're nine on one, leaving a mismatch on other parts of the map) rather than cheap weapons.

didn't try to solo them or anything.Period.

In short... Yes, no, yes.

Yes, because can you imagine a team of nubs being killed by guys in LAV's, simply because they can't afford a basic AV loadout? Or being completely useless to dropships flying around overhead, raining rockets on their heads?

I said no to this, but what do you mean? Do you mean a weapon which can work equally well against infantry and vehicles, but not as effectively as, say, an AR against the former and a forge gun against the latter? If so, then no. It'd be fairly simple to run around with a T2 version of that weapon and kill everyone.

And yes, I would love to have an entire team go nuts to kill me, simply because I'm a team player. Oh, and it's a slight ego boost. I'd rather have ten guys try to kill me, and my team get the objective, than one guy try to kill me and we lose the match.

So everyone trolling this thread is cute, but really. Grow up.

The problem isn't one free swarm. One free swarm sucks.

The problem is that with no skill points and no ISK, any team can switch, as a large group to free AV and harass/eliminate a vehicle in a very unbalanced way. Same issue with militia forge guns. Where as the problem with regular forge guns is simply that FG and AV in general are balanced against Tanks, which are HAV. Something like a dropship is thrown totally under the bus at a still hefty price tag of almost a million a pop.

The problem is that for close to no or little cost, and no SP at all, a team can effortlessly wipe out a players million+ ISK vehicle with their millions + SP invested simply by having the will to do so.

So everyone trolling this thread is cute, but really. Grow up.

The problem isn't one free swarm. One free swarm sucks.

The problem is that with no skill points and no ISK, any team can switch, as a large group to free AV and harass/eliminate a vehicle in a very unbalanced way. Same issue with militia forge guns. Where as the problem with regular forge guns is simply that FG and AV in general are balanced against Tanks, which are HAV. Something like a dropship is thrown totally under the bus at a still hefty price tag of almost a million a pop.

The problem is that for close to no or little cost, and no SP at all, a team can effortlessly wipe out a players million+ ISK vehicle with their millions + SP invested simply by having the will to do so.

So everyone trolling this thread is cute, but really. Grow up.

The problem isn't one free swarm. One free swarm sucks.

The problem is that with no skill points and no ISK, any team can switch, as a large group to free AV and harass/eliminate a vehicle in a very unbalanced way. Same issue with militia forge guns. Where as the problem with regular forge guns is simply that FG and AV in general are balanced against Tanks, which are HAV. Something like a dropship is thrown totally under the bus at a still hefty price tag of almost a million a pop.

The problem is that for close to no or little cost, and no SP at all, a team can effortlessly wipe out a players million+ ISK vehicle with their millions + SP invested simply by having the will to do so.

I can see what you mean and yes you shouldn't drive into 9 AV guys but you guys are missing the point.
Free AV should be removed to prevent half the team switching out.
If there is going to be a free AV it should be a Hybrid.

BTW quit trolling threads.

As you may have noticed I want the removal of starter fit swarms; as some of you already said the game has advanced greatly so there is no problem for it to be removed right? roflol
And you may have noticed that out of all things I might have complained about proto AV but did I ever?NO.

Cause you know what , those guys did invest time , sp and money into their gear and I feel totally chill when someone kills me (they rarely do but keep me pinned down)

So get your head out of your a** and see the point I'm trying to make scrubs. Quit trolling threads.

As you may have noticed I want the removal of starter fit swarms; as some of you already said the game has advanced greatly so there is no problem for it to be removed right? roflol
And you may have noticed that out of all things I might have complained about proto AV but did I ever?NO.

Cause you know what , those guys did invest time , sp and money into their gear and I feel totally chill when someone kills me (they rarely do but keep me pinned down)

So get your head out of your a** and see the point I'm trying to make scrubs. Quit trolling threads.

1-1200ISK is nothing even for nublets

6-A militia HAV costs around 200,000ISK(150,000 if you want to get OHKd) the best militia AV costs around 10,000 go figure.

A Proto heavy costs about the same, what stops him from getting zerg rushed by 9 guys with free militia assault rifles? His teammates, get over yourself.

Ok sorry for not using proper language I understand your replies and will try to explain my point again this time taking care not to use harsh language:

Now my current Madrugar fit has:2800 shield hp and 5200 armor hp with 25% resists and the 7 guys have militia swarms
first 4 guys get through my shields and 3 guys deal around 3500 damage leaving me with 1100 hp.
In this scenario 7 nublet AV guys were behind a hill using peek-a-boo style thing I retreated repped up then came back to my surprise there were now 9 nublets.

For shield tankers I know they are a joke and barely do any damage at all, but having a free suit damage armor more is unbalanced a free fit should be using hybrids (50-50 to both)

Now if we keep doing comparisons a free swarm fit dealing that much damage to a tank is like having a frontline starter fit nublet wipe you out in a adv to proto suit ; remember 1 swarm I tank it off easy , 2 swarms eh I hold up , 3 swarms I retreat, more than that is just too much.

Please post responsibly and try to understand me as I'm doing the same to you.
Thanks.

Militia HAV? Hahaha.

Seriously, get real. You can easily best one or two militia AV loadouts. Seven? Who cares?! You've won the match. Get over yourself.

So it's not okay for 9 guys with militia ARs to charge at 1 guy with a prototype heavy suit? It's called teamwork, both sides can do it.

No one is trolling, your logic is flawed and people are telling you so. If you can't have a discussion without accusing everyone who disagrees with you of trolling, then maybe you aren't ready for a discussion.

And Militia Swarms aren't free, they take 1 death to get into, and another to get out of. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to survive an entire match with just their side-arm, so that's 2 guaranteed deaths for anyone who wants to switch into AV... unless they have a supply depot, then it's still your teams fault for allowing them to capture it.

This is a militia HAV thats a PROTO heavy

And once swarms are in the air it doesnt matter my teammates just cant get them fast enough and there is no injector for HAVs

Dont get me wrong I dislike the idea of HAVs being god mode but I hate the idea of them being glass cannons.

Finally a post that is mature thank god.

Back to topic:Should people really have easy acess to AV like that? Even if they do shouldn't it be a hybrid? If not would you like tohave an entire team go nuts to kill you?

Im not QQing about this much tbh I probably have truckloads of money compared to those nublets but
1-It actually stops most people from specing into AV
2-It gets the whole team to swap out
3-It deals more damage than an advanced forge[Aganist Armor] (do I really need to say mor
And I know most of you scrubs use shields so don't make comments on armor without knowing you s**t.

THIS IS the problem fool those nublets didn't stand a chance stomped beyond measure had they not switched en masse ,had they not have free AV they would have speced into better gear and then we would all be happy.

You're missing the big picture.

Was there a point behind that other than proto heavy suits suck?


It takes forever for them to lock on, your teammates had more than enough time to kill them before they launched them.


lol you think getting taken out by 9 swarm launchers makes you a glass cannon?

It sounds to me like your team sucked and the other team didn't, but I have a question. Did your team win?

What makes HAVs a glass cannon is not how many people it takes to kill one but how easy it is to kill one
Say my team killed 5 before they could launch 4 swarms fire
Proto heavies dont suck get good (lol so does my madrugar tisk tisk but proto heavies dont get 9 free MDs zerg rushing him).

And I have nothing aganist you so calm down I'm not trying to offend anyone.

understand that dropships have it worse than tanks because they are medium class and unlike tanks, they are not constantly LOSing at least someone.

AV says tanks are OP.
Anyone paying vehicle expenses thinks AV is OP.
AV wants to be able to kill tanks.
But by the transitive property of HAV>MAV>LAV, where AV is balanced vs HAV, this means's AV is greater than anything (non-HAV) by a long shot.

Unless you want Dust to be World of Tanks, or World of AV vs Tanks, instead of "complex battle full of interesting choices and fair results" then really people need to stop looking at AV vs vehicle as AV vs Tanks.

If AV and Tanks constantly want to see themselves buffed against each other, you marginalize any other player out of existence.

ATM, I'm on the side of Free AV is bull*(% because 2-15 people with free AV makes me any any other non-epic-tank want to quit the game. Try to imagine being a sniper, spawned in the middle of enemy fire where everyone has proto's and shotguns. Also when you die, there goes a million+ isk.

Fun.

I understand AV is frustrated with tanks, because sometimes even a coordinated effort with PAID/skilled AV results in failure. And that'd even with tanks being on the ground constantly out of LOS of at least someone. DS = air = dead. GG. Free av zerg is OP and needs fixed. Tanks could also use toned down.

TL;DR, Personally I'm in favor of a large damage reduction across the board, and a very intensive look at the real cost/benefit of calling in vehicles. Which I need not get into the comparison between DS and tanks.

Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree

"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"

THANKS FOR THAT

Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree

"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"

THANKS FOR THAT

Gusk, that is perhaps the most immature post in this thread. Learn about how to post CONSTRUCTIVELY, and don't bother trying to give feedback unless you learn how to do so.

Nguruthos, that's a valid point. But I still say that risk/reward for a "free" AV zerg is too high to carry out. In effect, your team is throwing away the match for one kill. Not to mention a point brought up by a previous poster, each switch costs two clones, unless there's a supply depot handy.

Yes, fine, there's an inordinate cost to the person who loses the vehicle, but there is such a thing as situational awareness. You need to know when you should call in a HAV, a dropship, an LAV, whatever. You don't call one in in the middle of a firefight, you don't call one in if the enemy has heavy AV, and you don't call one in if most of the enemy is hidden away in inaccessible areas.

In short, most of this can be fixed simply by smart team play. Which is learnt by making mistakes. Which happens through situations like Gusk went through.

Here's another issue.

EVE and also Dust are designed to be about asset escalation.

With FREE/militia AV and no SP required, there is NO END to the AV spam. Ever. Entire match, entire team could do it. And no if, but when they do, players with tons of invested SP/ISK are ridiculously cheated out of their time. This is a problem. If you don't see that, then you have no intention of Dust being a successful game and would rather your greedy "I MUST BE OP" character dominate a dying and pointless game.

I DO NOT WANT vehicles to be invincible, or free. But I also do not want AV to be unrelenting and free.
There is a happy medium to be had somewhere but it lies between tanks being Gods, DS being paper, and AV being able to too easily destroy a tank (or DSx10 overkill )simply by focusing with a group of accounts made 10 minutes earlier that day.

IMO if it was a tank the entire team might be throwing away their chance to "win" the match for a vehicle kill. But where winning mean's nothing or where in actuality a single AV could score the kill on a DS, there's too large a discrepancy here.

THIS IS the problem fool those nublets didn't stand a chance stomped beyond measure had they not switched en masse ,had they not have free AV they would have speced into better gear and then we would all be happy.

This way is better. Militia gear is supposed to be able to kill militia gear relatively well. It does. There's also a militia pistol that, with only 2~3 headshots can drop the toughest heavy. That pistol is on most starter suits. That far out does your free militia vs paid for militia example, this is a free militia vs proto heavy. Should we remove those FREE pistols too?

If the other team is smart enough to gang up on your tank, it's good tactics on their part. Also, bad judgement on yours for bringing in a tank you were not ready to lose to militia gear. If you aren't prepared to lose something for any stupid reason, don't bring it in. I've ran across maps and had people randomly spawn in front of me in Vk.1 suits while I'm in a 100% free dragonfly shotgun suit. It might not be fair for them, but they shouldn't have brought it if they weren't prepared to lose it.

CCP has stated before that they were planning to remove the starter fits when BPOs are in place so I don't see a reason not.

BTW You complain that I can't see the big picture and yet you keep focusing on me and my tanks while there are a lot of other vehichle as Nguruthos stated.

I know that this is a different game, but on EvE, there's a saying. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

In effect, don't play with something unless you can afford to buy a new one.

Had you actually read through the thread you would know that I had a Madrugar. *facepalm*

Where did they say that?

And people are focusing on Tanks because currently tanks are the only vehicles worth Investing in.
Drop Ships are nice for teamwork and all, but the pilot himself doesn't actually gain anything for it.
LAvs are pretty much disposable.

Heh now that we got a friendly place to discuss it's go time :D

Hell I fly militia dropships to get drop uplinks in hard to reach places promotes teamwork :P

Then your reward come from the uplinks, not the Dropships. Dropships suck, my condolences go out to all those brave and selfless pilots

EDIT: free stuff that can spawn over and over

Nguruthos made several post about free guys taking down very expensive things breaking escalation.

Had you actually read through the thread you would know that I had a Madrugar. *facepalm*

You don't take $500 to a casino and blame the wheels in the slot machines for eating all of your money. You put the money (tank) into the machine (battle) and didn't like the way the wheels spun (random enemy tactics), but you can't blame the the wheels, you are the one who put your money at risk in the first place.

I love abstract analogies.... =D

removal of starter fits(grab BPOs and make your own fits if you really want to)

What Sloth said. Effectively a BPO is a militia kit with better stats - completely free, with unlimited usage. No risk, big rewards.

In battles with SP totals at the current levels, 99 times out of 100 you are slaughtered before you can reload the first time. You are taking a huge gamble by trying it. You are not only putting yourself at huge risk of death, you are taking away 90% of your ability to help your team.

In corp battles sure, but how many people actually care about the team in instant battles? All the AFK's don't, that's for sure.

The winning team makes more money and SP at the end of the match, I honestly don't understand why people WOULDN'T want their team to win. But I guess I'm just old-fashioned....

Also, the OP has no way of knowing every one of those players was running militia swarms. All he knows is that the last missile that hit him was one from a militia swarm. For all he knows, every other swarm on the field could have been proto swarms.

God knows that if CCP didn't give it to them, they would not create an AV fit for themselves for a month and a half, at least.

lol, I just barely invested in standard ones cause I couldn't fit 3 damage mods on my advanced suit with a militia swarm.

That's not true. Any decent tank driver knows to count the number of missiles in each swarm. It's very important, because depending on the number of missiles in each swarm and the people shooting at you, you know if you can tank the damage or you need to start running.

4 missiles = Militia/Standard SL.
5 = Advanced
6 = Proto.


And to the OP, sorry but I disagree. Newbies need that starter fit.

God knows that if CCP didn't give it to them, they would not create an AV fit for themselves for a month and a half, at least.

When 7 swarmers are hitting you, you really can count every single missile in the air and every hit you take? While shooting enemies, trying to find a place to hide, and trying to keep your reppers and hardners managed. That's 28 missiles possible in the air at once, not counting the fact that they can fire off more than one volley in the space of 5 seconds. That's 28 IF they were all militia. Ok rainman, if you say so.

EDIT: Also, those swarms are coming in from all directions, not just one in most instances. Just thought I'd point that out.