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Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2013.03.12 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Gusk, it sounds like you're trying to solo nine guys with AV weapons in a vehicle. Is there *any* possible way around that? Such as, getting your team mates to go round in an assault suit and kill them with ARs...? It doesn't matter WHAT tech level the AV weapons are, you really shouldn't try to take on more than one or two in a vehicle.
Hell, I've never been a vehicle player, but that much seems obvious. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 22:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gusk Hevv wrote:
In this scenario 7 nublet AV guys were behind a hill using peek-a-boo style thing I retreated repped up then came back to my surprise there were now 9 nublets.
Sounds like you ran out into a hail of fire, went behind a hill to rep, then went forwards again. Knowing full well they were there. Sounds fairly straightforward to me. Sure, you're stuck, but that's more from good tactics on their part (or bad, as they're nine on one, leaving a mismatch on other parts of the map) rather than cheap weapons. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
In short... Yes, no, yes.
Yes, because can you imagine a team of nubs being killed by guys in LAV's, simply because they can't afford a basic AV loadout? Or being completely useless to dropships flying around overhead, raining rockets on their heads?
I said no to this, but what do you mean? Do you mean a weapon which can work equally well against infantry and vehicles, but not as effectively as, say, an AR against the former and a forge gun against the latter? If so, then no. It'd be fairly simple to run around with a T2 version of that weapon and kill everyone.
And yes, I would love to have an entire team go nuts to kill me, simply because I'm a team player. Oh, and it's a slight ego boost. I'd rather have ten guys try to kill me, and my team get the objective, than one guy try to kill me and we lose the match. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 22:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nguruthos, I'd expect ten players with ARs to take out a tank.
In the end, if they can switch en mass to AV and pin ONE tank down, then they've got either great communication or they simply all have a one-track mind - BLOW UP THE TANK! And even if they switch en mass, then, well, the rest of your team is free to wreak havoc with the rest of their team. No problem.
So, in short, this is a team game. Get used to it. This isn't a game where you can play solo and hope to come out on top every time. You might even have the same complaint if you're in a proto assault suit and get swarmed by guys in militia suits. Get used to it. Being near unstoppable one-on-one counts for NOTHING when you're outnumbered. Ask the Brits who fought in the Zulu war, and ask General Custer. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 22:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ven Detis wrote:I can see what you mean and yes you shouldn't drive into 9 AV guys but you guys are missing the point.
Free AV should be removed to prevent half the team switching out.
If there is going to be a free AV it should be a Hybrid.
BTW quit trolling threads.
If you think we're trolling, then I think you need to look up the definition.
I'm presenting valid arguments AGAINST why they should make militia swarms free. In case it's not clear, here we go.
1. If militia AV cost, then nubs have no AV. Get steamrolled by LAV's.
2. If the team mass switch, then your assaults and snipers can have a field day.
3. Even if your assaults and snipers don't, then you tie down a majority of their team while the rest of your team wins the match.
In the end, I find that the people screaming for a militia swarm nerf (price increase counts as a nerf) are entirely selfish players. Not in a bad way. They're just absorbed with what's happening on THEIR screen rather than the big picture. So you die, but it takes half their team to do it, leaving a massive gap in their ability to repel the rest of your team. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Militia HAV? Hahaha.
Seriously, get real. You can easily best one or two militia AV loadouts. Seven? Who cares?! You've won the match. Get over yourself. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gusk Hevv wrote:
THIS IS the problem fool those nublets didn't stand a chance stomped beyond measure had they not switched en masse ,had they not have free AV they would have speced into better gear and then we would all be happy.
Soooo.... Your argument is that militia swarms should cost because if they do, it would help your enemies...? Your argument ISN'T that your militia HAV has been bested by seven nubs with militia swarms?
Get your argument straight. If they switch en masse, then it's their fault for not looking at the bigger picture. If they don't, then fine, you're free to roam around. In the end, this game isn't here to hold your hand and help you through it. It's throwing you in at the deep end, making you think to get ahead. You come out on top if you skill a single tree, rather than try to spread your SP; you do the best when you think what's best for your team.
Frankly, if they all target you, then that's their fault. You shouldn't be complaining about it, and if they complain "omgz it took my team 9 players to take out a HAV, buff militia swarms!" I'd simply tell them to learn to play. I simply don't *care* if the other team makes bad tactical decisions, like switching en masse, and like you running back out into a nest of AV infantry. It's simply stupid play, and the devs can't fix that for you.
In short, grow up, and start thinking. This is not a run and gun game. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gusk, here's what to do in case there are ten AV with militia swarms just over the hill.
One; get a free/cheap LAV. Run right into the middle of them with a cheap suit. You'll either run a few over before they kill you, or they'll blow themselves up killing you. That's four down with little to no effort.
If that's not an attractive option, then get out on foot, and shoot at people until they start swapping. Then get back into the HAV and start blowing them to bits.
It honestly sounds like you're incredibly inflexible. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gusk Hevv wrote:Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree
"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"
THANKS FOR THAT
Gusk, that is perhaps the most immature post in this thread. Learn about how to post CONSTRUCTIVELY, and don't bother trying to give feedback unless you learn how to do so.
Nguruthos, that's a valid point. But I still say that risk/reward for a "free" AV zerg is too high to carry out. In effect, your team is throwing away the match for one kill. Not to mention a point brought up by a previous poster, each switch costs two clones, unless there's a supply depot handy.
Yes, fine, there's an inordinate cost to the person who loses the vehicle, but there is such a thing as situational awareness. You need to know when you should call in a HAV, a dropship, an LAV, whatever. You don't call one in in the middle of a firefight, you don't call one in if the enemy has heavy AV, and you don't call one in if most of the enemy is hidden away in inaccessible areas.
In short, most of this can be fixed simply by smart team play. Which is learnt by making mistakes. Which happens through situations like Gusk went through. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Here's another issue.
EVE and also Dust are designed to be about asset escalation.
With FREE/militia AV and no SP required, there is NO END to the AV spam. Ever. Entire match, entire team could do it. And no if, but when they do, players with tons of invested SP/ISK are ridiculously cheated out of their time. This is a problem. If you don't see that, then you have no intention of Dust being a successful game and would rather your greedy "I MUST BE OP" character dominate a dying and pointless game.
I DO NOT WANT vehicles to be invincible, or free. But I also do not want AV to be unrelenting and free.
There is a happy medium to be had somewhere but it lies between tanks being Gods, DS being paper, and AV being able to too easily destroy a tank (or DSx10 overkill )simply by focusing with a group of accounts made 10 minutes earlier that day.
Thankfully, this is where situational awareness (mentioned above) comes in. If you get killed in a match by a mass switch of their team into AV, why would you bother bringing in a HAV again that match? Swap into a militia assault. Go round ambushing AV fits. Easy fix. Even if you only invest a mil or two into assault, you can easily take down a few miltia swarm fits before dying. That doesn't really detract from you speccing vehicles in the long run. |
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Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 00:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I know that this is a different game, but on EvE, there's a saying. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
In effect, don't play with something unless you can afford to buy a new one. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
What Sloth said. Effectively a BPO is a militia kit with better stats - completely free, with unlimited usage. No risk, big rewards. |
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