DUST Search - Remove the Free swarms already.

Laheon wrote:

Gusk Hevv wrote:

Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree

"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"

THANKS FOR THAT

Gusk, that is perhaps the most immature post in this thread. Learn about how to post CONSTRUCTIVELY, and don't bother trying to give feedback unless you learn how to do so.

Nguruthos, that's a valid point. But I still say that risk/reward for a "free" AV zerg is too high to carry out. In effect, your team is throwing away the match for one kill. Not to mention a point brought up by a previous poster, each switch costs two clones, unless there's a supply depot handy.

Yes, fine, there's an inordinate cost to the person who loses the vehicle, but there is such a thing as situational awareness. You need to know when you should call in a HAV, a dropship, an LAV, whatever. You don't call one in in the middle of a firefight, you don't call one in if the enemy has heavy AV, and you don't call one in if most of the enemy is hidden away in inaccessible areas.

In short, most of this can be fixed simply by smart team play. Which is learnt by making mistakes. Which happens through situations like Gusk went through.


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Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 95	Posted - 2013.03.12 22:36:00 - [1] - Quote So everyone trolling this thread is cute, but really. Grow up. The problem isn't one free swarm. One free swarm sucks. The problem is that with no skill points and no ISK, any team can switch, as a large group to free AV and harass/eliminate a vehicle in a very unbalanced way. Same issue with militia forge guns. Where as the problem with regular forge guns is simply that FG and AV in general are balanced against Tanks, which are HAV. Something like a dropship is thrown totally under the bus at a still hefty price tag of almost a million a pop. The problem is that for close to no or little cost, and no SP at all, a team can effortlessly wipe out a players million+ ISK vehicle with their millions + SP invested simply by having the will to do so.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 97	Posted - 2013.03.12 23:27:00 - [2] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: So everyone trolling this thread is cute, but really. Grow up. The problem isn't one free swarm. One free swarm sucks. The problem is that with no skill points and no ISK, any team can switch, as a large group to free AV and harass/eliminate a vehicle in a very unbalanced way. Same issue with militia forge guns. Where as the problem with regular forge guns is simply that FG and AV in general are balanced against Tanks, which are HAV. Something like a dropship is thrown totally under the bus at a still hefty price tag of almost a million a pop. The problem is that for close to no or little cost, and no SP at all, a team can effortlessly wipe out a players million+ ISK vehicle with their millions + SP invested simply by having the will to do so. So it's not okay for 9 guys with militia ARs to charge at 1 guy with a prototype heavy suit? It's called teamwork, both sides can do it. You're missing the big picture.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 97	Posted - 2013.03.12 23:46:00 - [3] - Quote understand that dropships have it worse than tanks because they are medium class and unlike tanks, they are not constantly LOSing at least someone. AV says tanks are OP. Anyone paying vehicle expenses thinks AV is OP. AV wants to be able to kill tanks. But by the transitive property of HAV>MAV>LAV, where AV is balanced vs HAV, this means's AV is greater than anything (non-HAV) by a long shot. Unless you want Dust to be World of Tanks, or World of AV vs Tanks, instead of "complex battle full of interesting choices and fair results" then really people need to stop looking at AV vs vehicle as AV vs Tanks. If AV and Tanks constantly want to see themselves buffed against each other, you marginalize any other player out of existence. ATM, I'm on the side of Free AV is bull*(% because 2-15 people with free AV makes me any any other non-epic-tank want to quit the game. Try to imagine being a sniper, spawned in the middle of enemy fire where everyone has proto's and shotguns. Also when you die, there goes a million+ isk. Fun. I understand AV is frustrated with tanks, because sometimes even a coordinated effort with PAID/skilled AV results in failure. And that'd even with tanks being on the ground constantly out of LOS of at least someone. DS = air = dead. GG. Free av zerg is OP and needs fixed. Tanks could also use toned down. TL;DR, Personally I'm in favor of a large damage reduction across the board, and a very intensive look at the real cost/benefit of calling in vehicles. Which I need not get into the comparison between DS and tanks.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 99	Posted - 2013.03.12 23:54:00 - [4] - Quote Here's another issue. EVE and also Dust are designed to be about asset escalation. With FREE/militia AV and no SP required, there is NO END to the AV spam. Ever. Entire match, entire team could do it. And no if, but when they do, players with tons of invested SP/ISK are ridiculously cheated out of their time. This is a problem. If you don't see that, then you have no intention of Dust being a successful game and would rather your greedy "I MUST BE OP" character dominate a dying and pointless game. I DO NOT WANT vehicles to be invincible, or free. But I also do not want AV to be unrelenting and free. There is a happy medium to be had somewhere but it lies between tanks being Gods, DS being paper, and AV being able to too easily destroy a tank (or DSx10 overkill )simply by focusing with a group of accounts made 10 minutes earlier that day.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 99	Posted - 2013.03.12 23:57:00 - [5] - Quote Laheon wrote: Gusk Hevv wrote: Ugh let me put it this way Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree "ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not" THANKS FOR THAT Gusk, that is perhaps the most immature post in this thread. Learn about how to post CONSTRUCTIVELY, and don't bother trying to give feedback unless you learn how to do so. Nguruthos, that's a valid point. But I still say that risk/reward for a "free" AV zerg is too high to carry out. In effect, your team is throwing away the match for one kill. Not to mention a point brought up by a previous poster, each switch costs two clones, unless there's a supply depot handy. Yes, fine, there's an inordinate cost to the person who loses the vehicle, but there is such a thing as situational awareness. You need to know when you should call in a HAV, a dropship, an LAV, whatever. You don't call one in in the middle of a firefight, you don't call one in if the enemy has heavy AV, and you don't call one in if most of the enemy is hidden away in inaccessible areas. In short, most of this can be fixed simply by smart team play. Which is learnt by making mistakes. Which happens through situations like Gusk went through. IMO if it was a tank the entire team might be throwing away their chance to "win" the match for a vehicle kill. But where winning mean's nothing or where in actuality a single AV could score the kill on a DS, there's too large a discrepancy here. Who knows maybe it'll even out if CCP does DS cloaking like they said 4 years ago.