understand that dropships have it worse than tanks because they are medium class and unlike tanks, they are not constantly LOSing at least someone.

AV says tanks are OP.
Anyone paying vehicle expenses thinks AV is OP.
AV wants to be able to kill tanks.
But by the transitive property of HAV>MAV>LAV, where AV is balanced vs HAV, this means's AV is greater than anything (non-HAV) by a long shot.

Unless you want Dust to be World of Tanks, or World of AV vs Tanks, instead of "complex battle full of interesting choices and fair results" then really people need to stop looking at AV vs vehicle as AV vs Tanks.

If AV and Tanks constantly want to see themselves buffed against each other, you marginalize any other player out of existence.

ATM, I'm on the side of Free AV is bull*(% because 2-15 people with free AV makes me any any other non-epic-tank want to quit the game. Try to imagine being a sniper, spawned in the middle of enemy fire where everyone has proto's and shotguns. Also when you die, there goes a million+ isk.

Fun.

I understand AV is frustrated with tanks, because sometimes even a coordinated effort with PAID/skilled AV results in failure. And that'd even with tanks being on the ground constantly out of LOS of at least someone. DS = air = dead. GG. Free av zerg is OP and needs fixed. Tanks could also use toned down.

TL;DR, Personally I'm in favor of a large damage reduction across the board, and a very intensive look at the real cost/benefit of calling in vehicles. Which I need not get into the comparison between DS and tanks.

Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree

"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"

THANKS FOR THAT

Ugh let me put it this way
Remove starter fits after a character reaches 1mil sp PROBLEM SOLVED
So many people misunderstand a simple concept and feel the need to disagree

"ooh he made a thread about removing\balancing\nerfing\fixing let's all disagree with him cause why not"

THANKS FOR THAT

Gusk, that is perhaps the most immature post in this thread. Learn about how to post CONSTRUCTIVELY, and don't bother trying to give feedback unless you learn how to do so.

Nguruthos, that's a valid point. But I still say that risk/reward for a "free" AV zerg is too high to carry out. In effect, your team is throwing away the match for one kill. Not to mention a point brought up by a previous poster, each switch costs two clones, unless there's a supply depot handy.

Yes, fine, there's an inordinate cost to the person who loses the vehicle, but there is such a thing as situational awareness. You need to know when you should call in a HAV, a dropship, an LAV, whatever. You don't call one in in the middle of a firefight, you don't call one in if the enemy has heavy AV, and you don't call one in if most of the enemy is hidden away in inaccessible areas.

In short, most of this can be fixed simply by smart team play. Which is learnt by making mistakes. Which happens through situations like Gusk went through.

Here's another issue.

EVE and also Dust are designed to be about asset escalation.

With FREE/militia AV and no SP required, there is NO END to the AV spam. Ever. Entire match, entire team could do it. And no if, but when they do, players with tons of invested SP/ISK are ridiculously cheated out of their time. This is a problem. If you don't see that, then you have no intention of Dust being a successful game and would rather your greedy "I MUST BE OP" character dominate a dying and pointless game.

I DO NOT WANT vehicles to be invincible, or free. But I also do not want AV to be unrelenting and free.
There is a happy medium to be had somewhere but it lies between tanks being Gods, DS being paper, and AV being able to too easily destroy a tank (or DSx10 overkill )simply by focusing with a group of accounts made 10 minutes earlier that day.

IMO if it was a tank the entire team might be throwing away their chance to "win" the match for a vehicle kill. But where winning mean's nothing or where in actuality a single AV could score the kill on a DS, there's too large a discrepancy here.

THIS IS the problem fool those nublets didn't stand a chance stomped beyond measure had they not switched en masse ,had they not have free AV they would have speced into better gear and then we would all be happy.

This way is better. Militia gear is supposed to be able to kill militia gear relatively well. It does. There's also a militia pistol that, with only 2~3 headshots can drop the toughest heavy. That pistol is on most starter suits. That far out does your free militia vs paid for militia example, this is a free militia vs proto heavy. Should we remove those FREE pistols too?

If the other team is smart enough to gang up on your tank, it's good tactics on their part. Also, bad judgement on yours for bringing in a tank you were not ready to lose to militia gear. If you aren't prepared to lose something for any stupid reason, don't bring it in. I've ran across maps and had people randomly spawn in front of me in Vk.1 suits while I'm in a 100% free dragonfly shotgun suit. It might not be fair for them, but they shouldn't have brought it if they weren't prepared to lose it.

CCP has stated before that they were planning to remove the starter fits when BPOs are in place so I don't see a reason not.

BTW You complain that I can't see the big picture and yet you keep focusing on me and my tanks while there are a lot of other vehichle as Nguruthos stated.

I know that this is a different game, but on EvE, there's a saying. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

In effect, don't play with something unless you can afford to buy a new one.

Had you actually read through the thread you would know that I had a Madrugar. *facepalm*

Where did they say that?

And people are focusing on Tanks because currently tanks are the only vehicles worth Investing in.
Drop Ships are nice for teamwork and all, but the pilot himself doesn't actually gain anything for it.
LAvs are pretty much disposable.

Heh now that we got a friendly place to discuss it's go time :D

Hell I fly militia dropships to get drop uplinks in hard to reach places promotes teamwork :P

Then your reward come from the uplinks, not the Dropships. Dropships suck, my condolences go out to all those brave and selfless pilots

EDIT: free stuff that can spawn over and over

Nguruthos made several post about free guys taking down very expensive things breaking escalation.

Had you actually read through the thread you would know that I had a Madrugar. *facepalm*

You don't take $500 to a casino and blame the wheels in the slot machines for eating all of your money. You put the money (tank) into the machine (battle) and didn't like the way the wheels spun (random enemy tactics), but you can't blame the the wheels, you are the one who put your money at risk in the first place.

I love abstract analogies.... =D

removal of starter fits(grab BPOs and make your own fits if you really want to)

What Sloth said. Effectively a BPO is a militia kit with better stats - completely free, with unlimited usage. No risk, big rewards.

In battles with SP totals at the current levels, 99 times out of 100 you are slaughtered before you can reload the first time. You are taking a huge gamble by trying it. You are not only putting yourself at huge risk of death, you are taking away 90% of your ability to help your team.

In corp battles sure, but how many people actually care about the team in instant battles? All the AFK's don't, that's for sure.