Why are you always complaining about your incompetence with HAVs?

Stack Hardeners and you can become invisible.

Because of constant QQ

My only problem are with AV is the Swarm missiles.
That problem can be solved with a simple counter measure against the missile itself or locking on.
This would solve that problem.

So you are hoping your constant QQing will fix them?

They have a counter already, it's called going round a corner

Its called, they follow you around the corner.

Tanks are more balanced than they've ever been. Steamrolling pub matches until someone decides to put a stop to it, switches to av and they run off. Just count yourselfs lucky that tanks don't have the same effect as my dropship, 30 seconds and the entire teams switched to AV. I use it as my main tactic in giving the team the advantage. The enemy team isn't half as effective whilst they're all running round with militia swarms

Its called, they follow you around the corner.

Allow tanks 80gj turrets to look down lower
have some type of collision damage to enemy infantry who even grace moving tank treads
^^^
THIS PLEASE

Naa only if your close enough to the shooter. The missiles are dumb and fire straight into anything that gets into the LOS

Nothing is wrong, they just need to have ammo. Laser weapons are suppose to be ammoless not large turrets. What if eve online worked that way.

Battleships and capitals don't use ammo, pppssffttt. Missle tanks should have ammo, then they would be balanced, and couold kill agian. We have ananohives, it'll be a little harder, require more teamwork.

This is how it should be.

However 1 skilled AV dedicated player can do this by himself.

Gotta say, it depends on the tank. Some tanks I can melt without reloading. Decent tanks I can't do squat to. Using proto swarms 6x 300 dmg, so obv raw damage is like 2k including skills. But given that you have a base resist especially on sheild, your passive recharge and your boosters. A well tanked sheild tank laughs me off even when I'm lobbing av's at it.

Once again you haven't driven a tank lol.

The way it works is close to the shooter they're dumb fire basically. Go straight.

When they're within aaah 100 meters or less of the tank, they auto seek.

Within 20 meters they auto turn corners.

Yep which is why in OP I specially stated the shield vs swarm thing.

You shouldn't be using swarms on shield.

You should have a forge gun for that, that is the shields counter.

Right now swarms can do some decent stuff to shield tanks, shield tanks highest resistance is kinetic, which missiles do.

Armor tanks lowest resist is explosive and kinetic, swarms were buffed to deal with shield tanks, truly making them OP excuse the word, towards armor.

Obviously you've never played with swarms :-)

Also I had suyra before the wipe, and was pretty leet with it. Reason I quit tanks is there was no fun in stomping over and over again. Only fun I used to have was chasing round other tanks. My dual large reppers on my madruger just tanked damage, reminded me of my hyperion, shame you can't fit cap boosters!! Or have cap for that matter :-p

You might be right, but still if your well tanked either you have a 8k or more buffer, not including resistances. Or you have awesome resistances and reppers. Either way, your not getting solo'd

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

1. Double HP? lolno , a bigger buff to marauders yes but not double HP thats dumb

2. AV nades dmg is fine, the range u can toss those things at needs reducing

3. Decrease Missile dmg a bit so they wont 1 shot armor tanks like before, increase splash radius , make em shoot straighter, problem solved

4. Rails are fine as is

5. Collision dmg in general needs to be fixed, cant be hittin small bumps and losing a bunch of shields an ****

6. Swarms need a drastic range reduction or have to maintain a lockon to reach that far. This would diminish the bs, lockon behind cover peek a boo bs along with firing swarms all the ******* way from deployment to ******* C on the construction map.

7. FGs fine. agreed.

8. Shield Hardeners buffed to 15-20 secs, cooldown is fine. Shield tanks arent meant to sit in a hotzone sponging too much dmg.

9. Agreed on kb/m being faster than controller bs needs to be fixed

10. Never played with mouse but here the turrets move slow with it.

11. Marauders need seige modules ASAP to set it apart from standard tanks. Atm its just a beefed up standard tank but not by that much.


Also side note, there is also alot of bs that gives bonus dmg to armor tanks but atm no shield specific infantry AV weapon (no the plasma launcher is not shield oriented its a Hybrid weapon so equal dmg)

I dont know how good LRs are at AV vs proper fitted tanks but i doubt it could be that useful

You said discussion, I'm discussing :-)

I don't see any armour tanks if I'm honest. But don't see how swarms that do 1800 dmg can take out 7k armour at 50% res in 2 shots. If they do, then your right, it needs to change. Not because its OP, because its buggy. It mathematically makes 0 sense

You said discussion, I'm discussing :-)

I don't see any armour tanks if I'm honest. But don't see how swarms that do 1800 dmg can take out 7k armour at 50% res in 2 shots. If they do, then your right, it needs to change. Not because its OP, because its buggy. It mathematically makes 0 sense

You said discussion, I'm discussing :-)

I don't see any armour tanks if I'm honest. But don't see how swarms that do 1800 dmg can take out 7k armour at 50% res in 2 shots. If they do, then your right, it needs to change. Not because its OP, because its buggy. It mathematically makes 0 sense

because loldmg mods are severely B R O K E N

Even with 2 proto's, with proto swarms that's 2100ish. Still shouldn't be anywhere near 2 shotting a decently fit tank. Let alone one with 7k at 50% res. and if it is, then again I apologise to the OP and agree, it's broken and the damage needs FIXING not nerfing

Naa only if your close enough to the shooter. The missiles are dumb and fire straight into anything that gets into the LOS

1800? Are you crazy? Yes discuss we must lol.

300x6x4 x30%

Is 9360 damage per clip

50% harder is 4680 per clip.

30% more damage if shot in the back of a tank is

6084 damage per clip.

3042 per 2 shots so ya 3 shots will do it.

When first one hits 99% of the time the rest are already in the air.

God forbid you have 1 more swarm guy somewhere.

So in your thoughts, should 1 Av kid be able to do this?

And that's if I have both hardners running and not waiting for one to cool

Add 2% damage per skill level of swarm pro or advanced logi suit can stack 1 more complex mod on as well.

This is the CBR-7 Dark I'm taking damage from memory from

Hey im just here to roll.... i say leave tanks the way they are, introduce automatic forge gun, LAV mounted swarm or anti armor blasters. Also knova knives that deal explosive dmg, HMG that shoots explosive rounds, lower the WP needed for an OB to 500 and then name the game call of AV.....

Lmao maybe you should actually play the game we are talking about..you clearly dont know anything about swarms

Hey im just here to roll.... i say leave tanks the way they are, introduce automatic forge gun, LAV mounted swarm or anti armor blasters. Also knova knives that deal explosive dmg, HMG that shoots explosive rounds, lower the WP needed for an OB to 500 and then name the game call of AV.....

I guess if they've gone to the extent of 3 proto damage mods and proto launchers, meaning they must be using proto suit? (Maybe not I'm guessing at last bit but I know how hard they are to fit onto stuff)

Let's say it takes 5 seconds to lock and fire each shot. That's 15 seconds for 3 volleys to be in the air
414 repaired per large repper without skills per 3second pulse 5 pulses max
2000+ repaired in 15 seconds
+ 50% hardeners is 3kish ehp

So with 7k plus 2k repped plus res = 13500ish ehp without shields

3 vollys of swarms with proto launcher and proto suit packing 3 proto dmg mods(these are what needs fixing)

=7000ish ehp lost. Unless they hit u on the weak spot, which I'm not too sure about but if its 30% then ok it's 9100ish.

But if someone goes to the trouble of using 150k glass cannon voulnerable to everything on the bf, then yes I think 3 shots should have you running for cover

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.
double would be too much just give the marauders a bit more hp

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.
they need to let us know how much damage they do, from previous builds proto does an insane amount of damage from what i remember

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.
Missiles are borked right now, and definitely need to be fixed

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.
I'm fine with how rails are atm

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.
I think there was a ninja patch for this, My tank seems like it doesn't take as much collision damage

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.
Swarms definitely need looking into, they are a skill less weapon

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.
I would like to see the hardeners last 30 seconds with a 30 second cool down, shields are ment for dps rather then tank

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.
best way to do this would be to move the acceleration and brake to a button

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.
agreed, it turns terribly

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.
]we need siege mode

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

I would also like the ability to fit a tank without secondary turrets

I agree fully, but most of the time, especially from behind your not going to have reps on.

Figure 3 seconds to smack on your reps, then 3-4 secs for them to actually activate and began rep.

This is if you survive 3 alpha swarm shots, because by the time you turn your reps on, 2nd volley has hit you, by the time the reps activate you may escape the third but the alpha will probably put you in bleed out mode, another rep pulse, remb they have pulse intervals so there's no true rep per second, the final shot will defenitly get you.

So you may survive if you see them coming and are prepared fully and are starting full retreat.

If not.........your dead.

Also keep in mind this is ONE guy with swarms lol.

All extra damage counts from dozens of other threats on field.

Would an extra high or low on the proto tanks help with the AV? The only prob i see with buffing or nerfing is no matter what something will always be unbalanced. I do agree that dmg mods are stupid right now. fix that, and maybe we wont need to have anything nerfed or buffed.

I totally get where your coming from, and yeh if there's one proto 150k av guy shooting you and a free militia, and you stick your head out long enough for them to get 3 - 4 shots of each then your dead.

I wouldn't have thought you'd meet many full proto av guys though. He'll even when I use the aurum version of proto swarm I use it on a basic suit so I can only fit 1 damage mod, because its to expensive to loose over and over again in pub matches. Trying to get that glass cannon into position for the kill on a tank whizing round the bf is extremely hard. If your fitted with full proto at like 150k and you do that every match, your gonna run outta funds pretty darn quick.

Corp matches are when proto av will be mainly used, and at the minute you have 2 squads. So likelihood of 1 team having more than 1 dedicated av player seems low.

I'm not saying I think your wrong, I'm just saying there's 2 sides to every argument

Boe boes for me now anyways. Look forward to playing with ya's on the bf. hf dude

"thanks for the hate in advance" haha love it I like how you covered everything in the area of vehicles and anti vehicles. One thing I know I can definitely agree on is the atv grenades just being way to strong. Swarm launchers and forge guns are suppose to be a primary weapon to hit vehicles with atv grenades are suppose to be a secondary not something players use as a primary and can just spam with nanohives.

Nobody should ever not have to use some sort of cover, tanks are no exception. The only real Av problem is with the Av nades which have crazy far homing

Cover is negated by swarms.

Forge gun is the only real working and fully game functioning game mechanic that is working imo.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

Only a minor issue at best, but not broken like Av nades

Everything else I either don't have any comment for, or agree with. I am somewhat skilled in AV, nothing heavy. Also somewhat skilled in HAV, defiantly not a name your going to remember as a HAV driver.

I think at MOST tanks could use a 1/3 boost in HP. Rockets I don't have experience with. I have heard everyone complain about them though. I wouldn't mind seeing them with shorter range rather than a DPS nerf.

I think AV grenades need to focus on armor damage just like flux grenades focus on shields.

Agreed AV grenades are a big issue, and as was put, are used as a main AV weapon instead of its intended purpose as a secondary.

But if you read the numbers above, swarms are just as broke vs armor tank,

Do to the QQ on them, when all along people have used them to counter shield tanks and balanced them so.

When shields have the highest resist towards them, leaving armor helpless, because no one used them as much and still don't.

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

I think their damage type should be changed and therefore lowering their damage bonus vs armor

If the homing was gone, then I'm down for that.

I'd prefer no dps Nerf on swarms, but would like to see a re work.

+1 on post broskie.

If they called it magnetic, rather than homing, and it only had a 1-2 meter pull then I think that would be good.

The answer to that is to raise their overall damage

tanks are fine although the malitia forge has to be nerfed or gotten rid of entirely

1800? Are you crazy? Yes discuss we must lol.

300x6x4 x30%

Is 9360 damage per clip

50% harder is 4680 per clip.

30% more damage if shot in the back of a tank is

6084 damage per clip.

3042 per 2 shots so ya 3 shots will do it.

When first one hits 99% of the time the rest are already in the air.

God forbid you have 1 more swarm guy somewhere.

So in your thoughts, should 1 Av kid be able to do this?

And that's if I have both hardners running and not waiting for one to cool

Add 2% damage per skill level of swarm pro or advanced logi suit can stack 1 more complex mod on as well.

This is the CBR-7 Dark I'm taking damage from memory from

the damage is perfect between all of the av BESIDES the highest prototype forge. The proto forge has more dps than a tank turret. WTF. AV nades are very inbalanced. the automatic tracking and magnet feature is nonesense. swarms are missiles and should not go 80 degrees around a corner. realism fail.

+1 ya proto forge I can deal with though,

He's aiming, he's in the open, he's slow while holding charge, he put enough sp into it, why not be a tank turret.

So many cons, where the others have next to 0 cons, needing limited sp.

However, assault forge or w/e fires way to quick. Its crazy.

I just see forges working fairly well.

yeah.. the assult forge.. thats the one.. its rapid fire

oh.. and an eject button would be great for dumping blueberrys to fight the av

I disagree. Swarms might be strong when loaded with mods, but every infantry on the bf will tear u up in 1 second. Even at 400 armour ur movement will be nerfed to hell and still be an easy target. AV is a hard counter to tanks and shame on tanks who don't have inf support.

Nothing else to say?

We're agreed things need re worked then?

oh yeah agreed

lol +1,

Let the minority be heard.

The minority being people skilled into

AV and HAV.

Not the ones who think they are.


Pfffff militia starter fit dudes these days.

yeah.. true dat..
I only put sp into tanks. got about 3 1/2 mil in it. gotta pretty good feel for hav and av

But both AV and HAV nerfs and buffs have been a direct result of a 90% around there AR community with no real experience or skills in either.

Things that affect the balance of either should be discussed by both.

Not everyone and their mother.

That one hurts like hell and when you combine 1 swarm user with it....

Nasty

I was pounding an armor tank with an assault forge fit tonight. He Large Blaster-ed me once. Came back, died from a a bad move on my part. Came back again and moved smart this time chasing him out of the urban area... then a swarm launcher stole my kill.

Sometimes this game...

The weird thing is if he hadn't backed up in some containers and simply drove away he would have lived. It was a well fitted tank that managed the DPS well. There were even two good options for easy escape. He should probably try listening to "The Gambler" by Kenney Rodgers.

Interesting discussion.

I presume you all already have the expectation that CCP won't listen, or will fumble it?

Pretty much,

As I've said I'd like ccp too,

But I've never seen this ccp actually balancing something or tweaking it without breaking it.


So idk.

Have you driven one?

Lol, I'm fine in HAV.

They're broken.

Why?

Because of constant QQ

My corpmate seems to routinely go 50-60+ and 0 per pub match. Corp battles are different, but that's too be expected. I've not heard him yet say his tank is "underpowered." How are your experiences so wildly divergent?

If stacking was fixed on damage mods, and tanks didn't have a weak spot, or you kept your nose into the battle then the overall damage would be vastly reduced. If we're saying that damage mods add 30% damage and all your calculations are using the weak spot at an extra 30%.

1800 + 3*10% damage mods would give more like 2000-2100 with stacking penalty

Even if they keep the week spot in
2900-3000 from a full proto suit running full proto gear, hitting you in this week spot, that he cant aim at with swarms you have to present that spot for them, and swarms generally go in higher than the grill anyway. I personally am all for them removing weak spots, it's not the new Eden way.

After sleeping on it, I really think swarms aren't the issue here. It's damage mods, and maybe the weak spot

In summery ehp of 13000 armour, max damage of 2100ish would take 7 direct hits from proto swarms which would take 1 player roughly 30 seconds. Not including any shields (shields given base res maybe 9?)

And 7 or 9 shots to kill a tank is no where near overpowered. Even with 3 man squad that would be hard to pull off unless you just sat in the open murdering new berries

That's how to fix the issues I believe

Nerfing damage on account of broken dmg mods and including the weak point in damage calculations is just doomsaying.

Same here, the fitting requirements are a nuisance.

My corpmate seems to routinely go 50-60+ and 0 per pub match. Corp battles are different, but that's to be expected. I've not heard him yet say his tank is "underpowered." How are your experiences so wildly divergent?

This may be a good time to consider some things, including a tank's role on the battlefield. In the 20th and 21st Centuries tanks were certainly behemoths that could stand up to a relatively large amount of punishment from infantry. Dust 514 is not set in the 21st Century. Interstellar travel, compact RAILGUNS being used as sniper rifles, shields that absorb kinetic energy, etc. should indicate the colossal technological advancements made by militaries of New Eden. As such, I don't see a tank fulfilling the same roles that it would in a modern FPS. Their higher susceptibility to man-portable weapon platforms isn't a shock to me. When used more conservatively, I have seen tanks act as nearly insurmountable force multipliers. When run into the fray as if they were wading through infantry outfitted with 20/21st Century arms these tanks are reduced to smoldering chassises. And before someone brings it up, I don't think they would have scaled with AV. Their seems to be, with the technology at hand, more cost effective ways to achieve similar results to what an old tank might have sought. So again, a re-imagining of what a "tank" is is probably in order.

Swarms are still a BIG issue it takes Z E R O skill for its ease of use.
Fire and forget at incredible range is bs, like i said deployment on construction map all the ******* way to C and back u can get locked onto and HIT W T F.

i wont have a problem with that sort of range IF the user had to put himself at risk like a forge user and expose themselves by having to maintain a lockon.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44430&find=unread

CCP this is how u fix swarms dammit

They risk a lot more than the tanks that snipe from the tips of hills and slink round the corner soon as they see the swarms coming. The av units can't hide from the infantry quite as easilly

1. u can thank the community for forcing most tankers to sit back and hill snipe. Blaster tanks cant do that

2.swarms still bend around corners and seeing as swarms do bonus dmg to the SLOWER tank its harder to get away from them even when they lock onto u from across the map

3. tanks can even hide? pretty sure u can OB a tank thats sitting hiding still.

Try again with a better counter argument.

They risk a lot more than the tanks that snipe from the tips of hills and slink round the corner soon as they see the swarms coming. The av units can't hide from the infantry quite as easilly

LOL. Blown up enough tanks solo to tell you what you are saying applies to only rail tanks. A full squad of 2-3 scouts running packed AV nades can just run up behind any tank within the red lines or outside the red lines and blow it up. Its way to easy blowing up tanks. LMFAO.

+1,
You know what i like about this thread.
Between the spec'd AV and HAV guys, no one can counter argue with us on topics.

Both sides will shoot then down.

Again reinforcing Why AV vs Vehicle balancing should be between the spec'd and not the rest.

I have no idea where you are driving your tanks, but a swarm guy cannot get long range locks if he loses LOS due to the tank moving. Being out in the open is your own damnable fault, just like infantry in the open will get snipped. I find it hit and miss whether a swarm will 90 degree around a corner and most of the time one or two missiles hit something on the way, the missiles have a pretty slow travel time and compared to the forge **** poor dps. The forge can also hurt infantry, unless there is a supply depot for easy access, swarms are weak as hell to infantry.
I still find it a little BS that a swarm User will get a full clip volley at a tank at 300-400 meters. That is just a bad tank driver and a bad ground team. In Corp battles it will be very hard to be AV, unless your mates are very good slayers.

Had a 5 mil corp match last night. The enemy got 2 tanks on the field. It didnt even cross their red line. BS!

Either tanks are weak or packed AV nades are strong.

PS: Waiting for the CCP overnerf SoonGäó!

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

For the sp isk and roles, tanks a terrible atm.

Yet people think we should run around the map and hide like LAV's lol
Im not a car.

Here is the low down;-

Packed AV nades;- 100000 SP
Minimum tank requirements (L1);- 450000 SP

Its easier to make a tank go boom than build it up. I see a major descrapancy here.

There are some things you're right about.

Collision damage needs to be reduced.

Railgun Splash Radius needs to be increased.

But Missiles following you around a corner is an over exaggeration. I've hopped in a friend's Hybrid HAV multiple times before and I've never experience that with Missiles, once I got around a corner I was safe. I was probably hit once or twice and if they can hit you anymore times than that before you turn a corner, you probably dont deserve to drive that HAV. I was a victim to the ridicilous collision damage though, backed up and was 1-hit killed by a wall while I was at half shields and full armour.

I also have an AV Fitting, lvl 3 Swarm Operation with AV grenades, I have not once experienced Swarm turning a corner.

You're just over exaggerating on that bit, Swarmers and AV grenades do what they were made to do, destroy vehicles.

no experience with armor tank vs swarms.

You want to double the HP of a tank? Fine, remove all damage reduction mods and reduce the repair speed of all tank HP.

Remove all resistance mods and half the HP recovery of all tank types, shield AND armor, and I'll agree everything else you mention in this post. How's that for coming to an agreement?

For the sp isk and roles, tanks a terrible atm.

Yet people think we should run around the map and hide like LAV's lol
Im not a car.

There are some things you're right about.

Collision damage needs to be reduced.

Railgun Splash Radius needs to be increased.

But Missiles following you around a corner is an over exaggeration. I've hopped in a friend's Hybrid HAV multiple times before and I've never experience that with Missiles, once I got around a corner I was safe. I was probably hit once or twice and if they can hit you anymore times than that before you turn a corner, you probably dont deserve to drive that HAV. I was a victim to the ridicilous collision damage though, backed up and was 1-hit killed by a wall while I was at half shields and full armour.

I also have an AV Fitting, lvl 3 Swarm Operation with AV grenades, I have not once experienced Swarm turning a corner.

You're just over exaggerating on that bit, Swarmers and AV grenades do what they were made to do, destroy vehicles.

Yes armour fittings are underpowered.

But you've got to ask yourself in the first place, why are you building armour fittings if you know they're underpowered?

I think the blaster tank should still be pretty vulnerable to AV grenades as it is THE infantry tank. Maybe the railgun tanks should get a nerf to putting blaster/missile turrets on them, but get a bigger resistance to AV as they wouldn't be working on infantry much any way.

What would be a nice stat from CCP.

isk destroyed by tanks vs. tanks destroyed...

If it is much more than an order of magnitude in favor of the tanks I'd say there ABSOLUTELY is no need to nerf AV. If it is in favor of AV destroying tanks, thats probably another story.

But my guess is that all of the pubstomping with tanks means that the curve is just broken for you tankers who want to eat AND have your cake.

I never said armour tanks were fine as is, dont know where you got that impression from.

Diversity? Its very careless spending if you feel the need to invest into armour tanks just to keep the 'Diversity' of tanks alive.

That's Why I want responses from skilled AV players and skilled HAV players.

On top of that, AV Nades are supposed to be secondary AV weapons, yet they deal more damage then any primary AV main weapon in game.

Best of luck with that! All you are gonna get is "Boo hoo hoo! that big bad Soma with 600 shield and 2000 armor kept killing me in my Enforcer suit. I fired at him and but didnt do a thing. I went 0-17 and he went 52 -1! Nerf that tank!"

lololol this has been the problem for ever now.

People need to skill things and learn before speaking.

I love how several spec'd AV and tank dudes have taken the time to respond to this thread and all have great input.

Then others with no skills come in and spout random stuff out

First:

If you are able to get within throwing distance of an infantry slaughtering blaster turret with 2 small turrets attached watching all around the main, then you deserve some boosted damage. Swarms and forge guns can be used from FAR away, so since AV grenades put you in more danger than other AV weapons, they SHOULD yield more damage. And let's not get into the big talk about nade spamming, we've gone over it SO much. If you are willing to run your tank into an area that hasn't been cleared by your team first, then you deserve any AV spamming you get, no matter how strong it is. Oh, but it's a pub match? Don't trust your blue dots? Don't run your tank solo then. Anyway, not getting into that, just addressing points.

Second:

Tank MINIMUM requirements- 0 SP. I have a tank. I have invested 0 SP into it. And it still holds up well to packed AV grenades. I spec Methana LAV's, so I have lvl 1 basic armor adaptation, so that also gives me a bonus I guess. Ok, so how much was that? 30,000 ish for lvl 1?

Ok, so I have a militia tank with 5500 ish armor, 11% passive armor damage reduction mod, 25% active armor damage reduction mod, 9% damage control unit, and a heavy repair mod. It cost me 30,000 ish SP and takes both swarms and basic/packed AV nades like a champ.

But I get your point, however tier 1 gear is supposed to be able to take out tier 1 vehicles. That's just the way it goes. If you don't like AV grenades, read the first part of this post labeled "First", it'll give you some pointers on how to avoid them.

Lastly:

AV grenades are low SP vs tanks. However you are giving up a slot in your setup in the HOPES that a vehicle will pass nearby. If one doesn't, you've lost your ability to use real grenades to flush out enemies or to drop the shields of that B-Series that's coming around the corner while you are still recovering from the last fire fight.

Blaster turrets have a longer range than any player can throw a grenade (unless they are on top of a mountain or something). If you let yourself get within their range, it's not their fault, it's yours. And if they are able to sneak up on you, that's them being good at sneaking, not AV grenades being OP.

Now hopefully CCP can spend some time and scrim through all these nice posts out here and put a balance in place.

But betcha $20.00 the overnerf hammer is coming

Tank are fine, blaster a bit op but generally fine

Pub stomping means nothing.
You are going against RANDOMS and alot of new guys who don't have AV skilled.

As my AV voice from redstar has agreed with most things. That's Why I want responses from skilled AV players and skilled HAV players. Not randoms who went against that tank once and watches them stomp pub matches.

LOL We will kill any tank....."Archon" will make sure of it. ....

Members in Red Star are fined 100000 ISK for every death against tanks and they get yelled at by me.

Some exclusions apply though for the good tankers out there.

So your saying i dont have to pay for those death's i got to Movadjo's tanks then right. Cause i dealt the final blow and all. ;0....

So where is your points to support your comment?

or did you just feel like stopping by and saying hello?

Pub stomping means nothing.
You are going against RANDOMS and alot of new guys who don't have AV skilled.

As my AV voice from redstar has agreed with most things. That's Why I want responses from skilled AV players and skilled HAV players. Not randoms who went against that tank once and watches them stomp pub matches.

Some corp member have tank i play with them like gunner, i play a lot against, tank get there power from is other squad member, like infantry, they cost a lot of isk but like us our corp give isk for tank player AV are fine, forge also perhaps the swarm proto a little bit op

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


...I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game...


...The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard...

Define 'skilled AV' please, because I don't think it has been yet. Is this someone who dedicates all of their SP to walking around and killing vehicles, because that sounds like a miserable dedication. If anything 1/3 of SP in AV seems a little more reasonable. And as such I would consider myself that.

So where is your points to support your comment?

or did you just feel like stopping by and saying hello?

Define 'skilled AV' please, because I don't think it has been yet. Is this someone who dedicates all of their SP to walking around and killing vehicles, because that sounds like a miserable dedication. If anything 1/3 of SP in AV seems a little more reasonable. And as such I would consider myself that.

1) I'm at demolitions V, grenadier 3, Assault Launcher Operation II, and weaponry V, and I'm a logibro. This means I have a lot that I can carry around when I want to nail a HAV, but I'm also annoyingly slow, and if infantry jump me I am super vulnerable. I also have significant dampening and detection skills letting me be pretty stealthy as I get into a good position. I have a few options for taking out HAVs, and it is much more doable in skirmish matches rather than ambush. I typically cannot grenade spam the good drivers and finish them off, especially if they have turret gunners. I find my most successful times are when I lead in with AV grenades and then use the SL. Starting with the SL gives away my position too soon normally. And even then, the lock time of a lot of the SLs means that if I'm in blaster range I will not survive more than 1 hit from out of cover.

2) The other aspect that you guys aren't really discussing either is the damage that is done before the AV even makes it to the HAV. Assuming that the HAV gets into its ideal scenarios, and its camping a CRU or objective, that is one location that the AV cannot spawn. This means that it must spawn (often when redlined) in a location that will put it nearly maximum distance from the HAV. The whole time the AVs team is then losing time/HP/clones due to the tank's superiority.

3) Why didn't you flipping address my initial point about damage done from either class? You know that tanks do 10x more damage in isk than they suffer over the long term.

4) Not to mention that their victories on the battlefield are strategic as well. They can hold down multiple points making every objective that they control for a minute give the rest of the team that much more freedom to roam. FYI in order to be victorious you need to kill 2 clones per minute for every minute that the enemy has an objective. If a tank holds down a CRU and objective for 3-4 minutes, and gets 15-20 kills, that's as good as getting +12 more kills due to the advantage. An AV player does not have that ability.

Assuming the average suit in a decent match is 20k isk. 20 kills is 400k isk, plus the advantage of holding down those objectives can be another 200,000+.

5) Additionally, it is the tank drivers who want to be the most aggressive that I find are the easiest ones to kill with my AV. If you want 30-40 kills you are putting yourself in at least 30-40 scenarios where you are in danger. I trapped a madruger in the mountain the other day between two stacks of proximity mines that he couldn't see or aim at with his turret. Then I proceeded to nail him with SL and AV grenades. He was helpless. It was his stupidity that lead him up the mountain all by himself, and my earned skill that let me win the battle in my favor. If you believe that you deserve to park where there are 4-5 red dots all around you all the time, think again.

You guys are involved in this rediculous Metagame already, knowing that when the purse strings open and Eve corps flood your big corps' wallets you will just buy your games with the HAVs that pwn. Guerrilla AV tactics will be the bread and butter to counter your guys' strategy and you are afraid that you won't be able to just buy your profit. Props to the propoganda that has already started, but it should be exposed for what it is.

Also: before people take a look at this thread and surmise that "the Community is up in arms about tank/AV balance..." 52 of the 130 posts at this point are from YOUR NAME HERE, and about another 50-60 are from just 2 or 3 others.

Your still going on about pub matches. Of course tanks will be op.

Yes I do many you dedicated every bit of sp into AV, like kain spero.

Where do I go on about pub matches? CRU stomping? That is a factor that should be discussed, but isn't central to my argument. I like how you engage me constructively though...but not really.

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about...
Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.
It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.
What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.
I think it would solve a lot of issues currently, Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot....Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at 300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip...

Point 3 was IMO your reference to pub matches with no AV skills.

I'm at work so when I go on break again, I will be more constructive.

That's fine, but I still think it applies. If we'd see that stats about what tanks destroy in corp matches vs. how often they are destroyed it wouldn't be a whole lot different. They are used differently in corp matches I assume, anyway. They are probably seen as more expendable, and their loss is probably less grieved, and likely insured by the corp anyway. If you are pulling 1 mill isk tanks for a 2 mill bounty match, though...props to you...but that still seems foolish.

Thread was long but a good read.

My opinions
Armor overall needs a major fix (come on CCP this needs to happen EVE side too)
Shields needs some improvement on collision damage (though should take a bit more damage than armor)
Shield counters needs to be in place

Millitia AV options needs to be either nerfed or removed entirely (*free swarms* *nom nom armor*)
Also saying that there are militia tanks that are cheap both ISK and SP wise so we should have some way of countering them
is stupid that's like saying
"you can have a militia dropsuit so why can't we have a militia OP launcher?"
They are hulls people not turrets.

Ty for reading through it all lol. Most people just post about things that have already been discussed elsewhere in thread.

It has become a long read since last night.

It is a great thread with a lot of ideas, and YOUR NAME HERE is a great person to discuss things in a mature manner with. Hat's off to you for that sir.

o/

Smh

It is a great thread with a lot of ideas, and YOUR NAME HERE is a great person to discuss things in a mature manner with. Hat's off to you for that sir.

o/

Even if im not always agree with him, his post are constructive and always make debate +1

-- many levels of snipping going on here --
-- just a little YOUR NAME HERE snip as well --
I think somas are trash and won't survive a whole game with a blaster. I also think they should require skills to use.
But without investing core tank skills, they are pointless and death traps.

Thread was long but a good read.

My opinions
Armor overall needs a major fix (come on CCP this needs to happen EVE side too)
Shields needs some improvement on collision damage (though should take a bit more damage than armor)
Shield counters needs to be in place

Millitia AV options needs to be either nerfed or removed entirely (*free swarms* *nom nom armor*)
Also saying that there are militia tanks that are cheap both ISK and SP wise so we should have some way of countering them
is stupid that's like saying
"you can have a militia dropsuit so why can't we have a militia OP launcher?"
They are hulls people not turrets.

Why are you always complaining about your incompetence with HAVs?

Stack Hardeners and you can become invincible.

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

asking for tank buffs in a game where tanks magically regen health LOL

dont know bro its in a game where space ships magically regen health lol

its all so in a universe where mass can move faster then light !

that game all so says this universe mass can out run light !