My corpmate seems to routinely go 50-60+ and 0 per pub match. Corp battles are different, but that's to be expected. I've not heard him yet say his tank is "underpowered." How are your experiences so wildly divergent?

This may be a good time to consider some things, including a tank's role on the battlefield. In the 20th and 21st Centuries tanks were certainly behemoths that could stand up to a relatively large amount of punishment from infantry. Dust 514 is not set in the 21st Century. Interstellar travel, compact RAILGUNS being used as sniper rifles, shields that absorb kinetic energy, etc. should indicate the colossal technological advancements made by militaries of New Eden. As such, I don't see a tank fulfilling the same roles that it would in a modern FPS. Their higher susceptibility to man-portable weapon platforms isn't a shock to me. When used more conservatively, I have seen tanks act as nearly insurmountable force multipliers. When run into the fray as if they were wading through infantry outfitted with 20/21st Century arms these tanks are reduced to smoldering chassises. And before someone brings it up, I don't think they would have scaled with AV. Their seems to be, with the technology at hand, more cost effective ways to achieve similar results to what an old tank might have sought. So again, a re-imagining of what a "tank" is is probably in order.

Swarms are still a BIG issue it takes Z E R O skill for its ease of use.
Fire and forget at incredible range is bs, like i said deployment on construction map all the ******* way to C and back u can get locked onto and HIT W T F.

i wont have a problem with that sort of range IF the user had to put himself at risk like a forge user and expose themselves by having to maintain a lockon.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44430&find=unread

CCP this is how u fix swarms dammit

They risk a lot more than the tanks that snipe from the tips of hills and slink round the corner soon as they see the swarms coming. The av units can't hide from the infantry quite as easilly

1. u can thank the community for forcing most tankers to sit back and hill snipe. Blaster tanks cant do that

2.swarms still bend around corners and seeing as swarms do bonus dmg to the SLOWER tank its harder to get away from them even when they lock onto u from across the map

3. tanks can even hide? pretty sure u can OB a tank thats sitting hiding still.

Try again with a better counter argument.

They risk a lot more than the tanks that snipe from the tips of hills and slink round the corner soon as they see the swarms coming. The av units can't hide from the infantry quite as easilly

LOL. Blown up enough tanks solo to tell you what you are saying applies to only rail tanks. A full squad of 2-3 scouts running packed AV nades can just run up behind any tank within the red lines or outside the red lines and blow it up. Its way to easy blowing up tanks. LMFAO.

+1,
You know what i like about this thread.
Between the spec'd AV and HAV guys, no one can counter argue with us on topics.

Both sides will shoot then down.

Again reinforcing Why AV vs Vehicle balancing should be between the spec'd and not the rest.

I have no idea where you are driving your tanks, but a swarm guy cannot get long range locks if he loses LOS due to the tank moving. Being out in the open is your own damnable fault, just like infantry in the open will get snipped. I find it hit and miss whether a swarm will 90 degree around a corner and most of the time one or two missiles hit something on the way, the missiles have a pretty slow travel time and compared to the forge **** poor dps. The forge can also hurt infantry, unless there is a supply depot for easy access, swarms are weak as hell to infantry.
I still find it a little BS that a swarm User will get a full clip volley at a tank at 300-400 meters. That is just a bad tank driver and a bad ground team. In Corp battles it will be very hard to be AV, unless your mates are very good slayers.

Had a 5 mil corp match last night. The enemy got 2 tanks on the field. It didnt even cross their red line. BS!

Either tanks are weak or packed AV nades are strong.

PS: Waiting for the CCP overnerf SoonGäó!

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.


Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]

For the sp isk and roles, tanks a terrible atm.

Yet people think we should run around the map and hide like LAV's lol
Im not a car.

Here is the low down;-

Packed AV nades;- 100000 SP
Minimum tank requirements (L1);- 450000 SP

Its easier to make a tank go boom than build it up. I see a major descrapancy here.

There are some things you're right about.

Collision damage needs to be reduced.

Railgun Splash Radius needs to be increased.

But Missiles following you around a corner is an over exaggeration. I've hopped in a friend's Hybrid HAV multiple times before and I've never experience that with Missiles, once I got around a corner I was safe. I was probably hit once or twice and if they can hit you anymore times than that before you turn a corner, you probably dont deserve to drive that HAV. I was a victim to the ridicilous collision damage though, backed up and was 1-hit killed by a wall while I was at half shields and full armour.

I also have an AV Fitting, lvl 3 Swarm Operation with AV grenades, I have not once experienced Swarm turning a corner.

You're just over exaggerating on that bit, Swarmers and AV grenades do what they were made to do, destroy vehicles.

no experience with armor tank vs swarms.

You want to double the HP of a tank? Fine, remove all damage reduction mods and reduce the repair speed of all tank HP.

Remove all resistance mods and half the HP recovery of all tank types, shield AND armor, and I'll agree everything else you mention in this post. How's that for coming to an agreement?

For the sp isk and roles, tanks a terrible atm.

Yet people think we should run around the map and hide like LAV's lol
Im not a car.

There are some things you're right about.

Collision damage needs to be reduced.

Railgun Splash Radius needs to be increased.

But Missiles following you around a corner is an over exaggeration. I've hopped in a friend's Hybrid HAV multiple times before and I've never experience that with Missiles, once I got around a corner I was safe. I was probably hit once or twice and if they can hit you anymore times than that before you turn a corner, you probably dont deserve to drive that HAV. I was a victim to the ridicilous collision damage though, backed up and was 1-hit killed by a wall while I was at half shields and full armour.

I also have an AV Fitting, lvl 3 Swarm Operation with AV grenades, I have not once experienced Swarm turning a corner.

You're just over exaggerating on that bit, Swarmers and AV grenades do what they were made to do, destroy vehicles.

Yes armour fittings are underpowered.

But you've got to ask yourself in the first place, why are you building armour fittings if you know they're underpowered?

I think the blaster tank should still be pretty vulnerable to AV grenades as it is THE infantry tank. Maybe the railgun tanks should get a nerf to putting blaster/missile turrets on them, but get a bigger resistance to AV as they wouldn't be working on infantry much any way.

What would be a nice stat from CCP.

isk destroyed by tanks vs. tanks destroyed...

If it is much more than an order of magnitude in favor of the tanks I'd say there ABSOLUTELY is no need to nerf AV. If it is in favor of AV destroying tanks, thats probably another story.

But my guess is that all of the pubstomping with tanks means that the curve is just broken for you tankers who want to eat AND have your cake.

I never said armour tanks were fine as is, dont know where you got that impression from.

Diversity? Its very careless spending if you feel the need to invest into armour tanks just to keep the 'Diversity' of tanks alive.

That's Why I want responses from skilled AV players and skilled HAV players.

On top of that, AV Nades are supposed to be secondary AV weapons, yet they deal more damage then any primary AV main weapon in game.

Best of luck with that! All you are gonna get is "Boo hoo hoo! that big bad Soma with 600 shield and 2000 armor kept killing me in my Enforcer suit. I fired at him and but didnt do a thing. I went 0-17 and he went 52 -1! Nerf that tank!"

lololol this has been the problem for ever now.

People need to skill things and learn before speaking.

I love how several spec'd AV and tank dudes have taken the time to respond to this thread and all have great input.

Then others with no skills come in and spout random stuff out