DUST Search - [Discussion] Fixing tanks

Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:

There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about.

Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die.

It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks.

What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff.

I think it would solve a lot of issues currently,

Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot.

I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game.

Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase.

Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up.

Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at
300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip.

When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck.

Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should.

Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down.

The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard.

The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad.

The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high.

Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome.

I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement.

The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment.

So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits.

I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things.

Thanks for the hate in advance!

[Y0UR NAME HERE]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 17:35:00 - [1] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: There's a few issues with tanks I'd like to have a chat about. Currently skilled AV can do terrible things to our tanks that will make us corner cry and hide behind the redline or simply die. It takes only 1 mind you, and AV isn't a hard thing to skill into, the SP requirements are very low compared to tanks. What I'd like to see is tanks have a double hp buff. I think it would solve a lot of issues currently, Some AV things need looked at. AV grenades for 1, we don't even know how much damage they do, but its a lot. I'd also like to see missile launchers be fixed. At this point they're wasting space in game. Rails need around a 2.0 meter splash increase. Shield tanks need collision corrected, you hit one with an LAV or armor tank, and it blows up. Hell you hit a wall and they blow up. Swarm launchers need either a range reduction or damage decrease. Yes yes people will say they do nothing, that's because your shooting a shield tank, they're made to resist missiles. Armor, not at all. Proto is ridiculous, even advanced your looking at 300 damage per missile times 6 missiles times 4 in a clip. When one hits you, the others are in the air, combined with range and peek a boo tactics, good luck. Forge guns are fine. They do exactly what they should. Shield tanks def need either hp buff or for their hardners to run longer with a shorter cool down. The keyboard and joystick need to be on equal grounds, the joystick should equal the keyboard. The mouse needs to be fixed for tank turrets, its terribly bad. The Surya and Sagaris need to have a better role definition, add siege mode to them, or give them appropriate slots to set them apapart from standard tanks, give Surya 1 more low and Sagaris 1 more high. Any other thoughts ideas, disagreements are welcome. I'd like to see what people say and see if we can come to an agreement. The player base is 90% AR 1% AV 9% assortment. So please don't just give some wack answer because you drove a militia tank this one time, or use your starter fits. I'm looking for comments from skilled AV players and tank drivers alike to see where we went wrong in closed beta on balancing these things. Thanks for the hate in advance! [Y0UR NAME HERE] You want to double the HP of a tank? Fine, remove all damage reduction mods and reduce the repair speed of all tank HP. Remove all resistance mods and half the HP recovery of all tank types, shield AND armor, and I'll agree everything else you mention in this post. How's that for coming to an agreement?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 18:08:00 - [2] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: For the sp isk and roles, tanks a terrible atm. Yet people think we should run around the map and hide like LAV's lol Im not a car. Here is the low down;- Packed AV nades;- 100000 SP Minimum tank requirements (L1);- 450000 SP Its easier to make a tank go boom than build it up. I see a major descrapancy here. On top of that, AV Nades are supposed to be secondary AV weapons, yet they deal more damage then any primary AV main weapon in game. First: If you are able to get within throwing distance of an infantry slaughtering blaster turret with 2 small turrets attached watching all around the main, then you deserve some boosted damage. Swarms and forge guns can be used from FAR away, so since AV grenades put you in more danger than other AV weapons, they SHOULD yield more damage. And let's not get into the big talk about nade spamming, we've gone over it SO much. If you are willing to run your tank into an area that hasn't been cleared by your team first, then you deserve any AV spamming you get, no matter how strong it is. Oh, but it's a pub match? Don't trust your blue dots? Don't run your tank solo then. Anyway, not getting into that, just addressing points. Second: Tank MINIMUM requirements- 0 SP. I have a tank. I have invested 0 SP into it. And it still holds up well to packed AV grenades. I spec Methana LAV's, so I have lvl 1 basic armor adaptation, so that also gives me a bonus I guess. Ok, so how much was that? 30,000 ish for lvl 1? Ok, so I have a militia tank with 5500 ish armor, 11% passive armor damage reduction mod, 25% active armor damage reduction mod, 9% damage control unit, and a heavy repair mod. It cost me 30,000 ish SP and takes both swarms and basic/packed AV nades like a champ. But I get your point, however tier 1 gear is supposed to be able to take out tier 1 vehicles. That's just the way it goes. If you don't like AV grenades, read the first part of this post labeled "First", it'll give you some pointers on how to avoid them. Lastly: AV grenades are low SP vs tanks. However you are giving up a slot in your setup in the HOPES that a vehicle will pass nearby. If one doesn't, you've lost your ability to use real grenades to flush out enemies or to drop the shields of that B-Series that's coming around the corner while you are still recovering from the last fire fight. Blaster turrets have a longer range than any player can throw a grenade (unless they are on top of a mountain or something). If you let yourself get within their range, it's not their fault, it's yours. And if they are able to sneak up on you, that's them being good at sneaking, not AV grenades being OP.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 18:56:00 - [3] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Morathi III wrote: Tank are fine, blaster a bit op but generally fine So where is your points to support your comment? or did you just feel like stopping by and saying hello? I guess I'll take that one up since he's a hit and run. Since blasters have a huge range and are a rapid fire anti-infantry weapon, I think they should have more damage drop off towards the end of their range and slightly reduced splash damage (~5-10% splash damage reduction), but they are tolerable as they stand now. Not a big enough problem to make it worth starting a whole thread on them. Maybe one day, if things get balanced out well enough to squabble about lesser matters. As for why, even with the militia turret I use now (I like running this hunk of junk tank just to grief people, getting dropped by militia tanks leaves a sour taste in the mouth ) I can pretty easily drop heavies that are in the last 20% of my range with no serious difference than if they were right next to me. It only seems to be that last 5% or so that I notice any serious dropoff in my DPS. I feel this isn't balanced properly for such a hard hitting anti-infantry weapon, especially for my weak little militia one. Because of this, I'd like for the damage to start sloping off around the last 25% of the blasters range, dealing VERY little damage (say about only 10-15% damage) in the last 5% or so of the total blaster range. But like I said, not going to push that one, it's not big enough of an issue atm. EDIT: Looks like he stuck around. Hi Morathi!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote And just for the record, on even ground meeting face to face, I can easily drop most gunloggi's with this tank. Part of the reason I think all hardners should be nerfed. Reduction % wise, not cooldown time. And yes, I think shield hardners need the reduction % nerf as well. I'd be willing to increase a tank's base HP by 50% if the hardners reduction % were nerfed considerably and stacking penalties applied to passive hardners equipped with active ones. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 20:38:00 - [5] - Quote It is a great thread with a lot of ideas, and YOUR NAME HERE is a great person to discuss things in a mature manner with. Hat's off to you for that sir. o/
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 252	Posted - 2013.02.26 15:08:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bhor Derri wrote: Thread was long but a good read. My opinions Armor overall needs a major fix (come on CCP this needs to happen EVE side too) Shields needs some improvement on collision damage (though should take a bit more damage than armor) Shield counters needs to be in place Millitia AV options needs to be either nerfed or removed entirely (free swarms nom nom armor) Also saying that there are militia tanks that are cheap both ISK and SP wise so we should have some way of countering them is stupid that's like saying "you can have a militia dropsuit so why can't we have a militia OP launcher?" They are hulls people not turrets. poster does not know there is no blueprints on any AV weapons outside that crappy milita starter fit launcher. No.... but there is the Dire Sentinel starter fit which has a permanent militia forge gun. Either way, no AV needs to be nerfed unless they include even better weapon unlocks for skilling into that weapons proficiency skill. In that case, sure, nerf the lower level forge guns and swarms, but give us even MORE powerful weapons than we have now once proficiency is maxed.