Just got back from a helpful chat from CCP Nullabor via IRC

Essentially 'we think' NDA is getting lifted tomorrow however pending legal team CCP Null did say he poked people and hopefully a full and clear post comes out. So no promises that tomorrow NDA is getting lifted yet. Wait for the official posting declaring such before going hog wild with your crazy LAV surfing skills video.

As for the folks who overspent on Aurum items. The move to TQ on the tenth earlier this month is the 'commercial release' as far as the PSN store items descriptions are concerned thus forth ergo, NO MORE AURUM RESETS. This however does not mean that 'beta is over' as there is much more work to be done but truly means no more resets no more refunds. If you feel you have been wronged in any way I highly encourage to use the petition system tomorrow reasonably and try to negotiate a refund as individuals.

I trust you, not says Yoda.

To say that there is not another reset before the final release seems unlikly to me, but I will keep that in mind before I buy 400 90 arum rifles.

And if this is true then the way to go is before the change the arum of milite BPO's we should buy like 400 of each and sell them for tons later once the open market starts.

To say that there is not another reset before the final release seems unlikly to me, but I will keep that in mind before I buy 400 90 arum rifles.

Says you.

it's sad that they don't post this information for the rest of us to see first hand.

If they intended to change the Merc Pack on us, they could have at least told us BEFORE hand, rather than telling us after the fact. A sticky or something saying "btw, you will no longer be getting the Merc pack items back at release" would have sufficed. Of course, then people would have thrown a fit and demanded refunds, so better to just not tell anyone, right?

Look forward to my petitions, and a full refund from SOE if necessary.

Not likely to happen, as with most digital sales they're all final. Most they would do is tell you to tell ccp to restore bought items.

Fair enough, CCP restoring my items after commercial release is officially announced is all I want.

Yeah, it's pretty simple really. All they have to do is actually give us what we paid for. Which is the full Merc pack AT COMMERCIAL RELEASE.

Does no one else remember thread after thread and comment after comment about how the Merc Pack was there so that we could pre-order items for the official commercial release? I believe it was the standard response to the accusation that CCP was charging people for a spot in a closed beta. Well, I guess we now see who was right all along.

honestly, what bothers me the most, is that I was one of the people defending the Merc Pack, and now CCP has made a liar and a fool out of me. It's gonna make it that much harder for me to trust them next time, and MUCH less likely to actually spend money on AUR and items in the future.

I see no mention on the internet after searching for about 30 minutes where sony or CCP has stated dust514 has been commercially released. Personally I am fine because most of my aurum has been spent boosters for sp and they aren't taking my sp back. However, I think players to bough any othe items have legit claims for reimbursement.

This is failed communication in my mind and frankly really really dirty by ccp. We were giong to spend the aurum anways whats 2 weeks worth make a difference ccp? I have am considering jsut not buying more merc packs because of this as I have enough aurum and sp booster to get me a good amount of sp. By then the daily amount shouldn't matter to me much

Perhaps you should have looked into this matter further, observed the facts, and not splurged with your AUR until you had confirmed what CCP's policy was going to be.


It seems like, for the most part, participants of the closed beta understood what was going to happen with AUR when CCP made it clear that the most recent reset was the last. You have enjoyed the benefits of your AUR items not once, not twice, but upwards of three or more times depending upon the timing of your entrance into the closed beta.

Could the literature have been a little bit more clear? Perhaps, but not by much. Overall, the forums is an unsuitable place to pose any questions you now have with regards to the entire thing. The only people who can change anything for you are the Dust 514 GM's.

Pretending that a desperate twisting of semantics of the consumer's end represents some sort of trick or an intentional money grab from CCP borders is just a mite silly.

Quick question... What was the initial complaint here?

All I see in this thread are people talking about AUR items and merc packs and generally being hacked off about something.

Could somebody please clarify the subject matter.

Quick question... What was the initial complaint here?

All I see in this thread are people talking about AUR items and merc packs and generally being hacked off about something.

Could somebody please clarify the subject matter.

Either way if you really do have issues with the aurum, items missing, misconceptions, please please please email support or use the petition system tomorrow to start getting a resolution on the problems.

My only comment is that CCP has stated it was the last wipe before the wipe ever happened. If people spent there AUR unwisely the fault is soley on them. They were warned by numerous threads and they could read announcements. It's the same to those who are going to feel slighted when the new build comes out and a lot of SP may go to waste.

"hey guys, we warned you on the internet that we weren't going to honor your purchase (after you already made it), therefore we get to keep your money and don't have to give you the product you were promised"

amirite?

sending in petitions to GMs before CCP itself make a statement is pointless.

This is why you should have waited for ccp's statement on the forums before posting this ****. I assume they are trying to figure out how to handle it and communicate it. Then give us what if any instructions to remedy it.

Next time let them work it out first before rushing to the forums to be "Mr First to Post it"

So basically people spent their AUR on, let's say 500 Blindfires, to get themselves an early boost and now they are pizzed because they can't get their AUR back?

It would be nice to get some official word on all of this. Right now CCP's definition of "open beta" seems quite different than what the majority of the gaming community would consider. So any argument over what is "beta" and "commercial release" is kind of pointless since CCP are kind of doing whatever they want and calling it whatever they want.

It would have been nice to know about the NDA in advance. Hopefully we will get an anouncement when open beta gets here.

So basically people spent their AUR on, let's say 500 Blindfires, to get themselves an early boost and now they are pizzed because they can't get their AUR back?

In essense, yes, but only because CCP explicity sold the Merc Pack to us under this arrangement. It stated in no uncertain terms, that we would get all of the Merc Pack items replenished at the Commercial Release of the game.

This is an instance though where Hanlon's Razor should be applied:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

I don't think anyone here thinks they have done this on purpose, regardless of the strawman arguments being lobbed at us. What's happening is, CCP is dropping the ball and failing to communicate clearly and effectively with THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS.

I don't see why it's unreasonable for people to expect CCP to honor the purchase agreement they made with us.

It would be nice to get some official word on all of this. Right now CCP's definition of "open beta" seems quite different than what the majority of the gaming community would consider. So any argument over what is "beta" and "commercial release" is kind of pointless since CCP are kind of doing whatever they want and calling it whatever they want.

It would have been nice to know about the NDA in advance. Hopefully we will get an anouncement when open beta gets here.

Our side of the argument is simple: you were warned there were no more wipes, which obviously ment no more AUR reimbursements. The only people who have a right to complain are the ones who don't use the forums or actively seek dust info.

And commercial launch is when a game goes public - never really states a completed product.

So are people mad because they lost their AURUM items cause they ran with them and died or are they mad that they bought a whole mess of them that are now just sitting around? If the latter you can just sell them I guess. But I'm sorry if I don't really understand what the confusion is.

CCP has always said that we had the final reset with the move to TQ...if you're ignoring the posts made by DEVs in the days preceding the reset and instead you're going to assume the description of an item in the Playstation Store that was posted months and months ago doesn't really seem like that's CCP's fault.

I thought CCP made it very clear that the final reset would be the move to TQ by explicitly stating that in various threads on the forums.

CCP Frame has already clarified that the open beta IS NOT the commercial launch.

"No more wipes" has absolutely nothing to do with the merc pack, and it is absolutely not in any way obvious that they meant they were also changing the Merc Pack and would not be honoring the product that we purchased.

"They warned you that they were not going to honor the agreement, therefore they don't have to honor the agreement" is just a nonsense argument.

Furthermore, you are conceding that anyone who DOES NOT actively search out this info has a right to complain. So, as far as I'm concerned, you've already completely undermined the validity of "your side" of the discussion. A person would need to actively search out the info in order to find out theterms of the purchase have been altered, in an EXTREMELY FUNDAMENTAL way, to the point that it is basically a different product than the one advertised. Super classy of CCP.

If CCP wants to change terminology that's fine - but I don't take one post from one CCP as the expressive opinion. Especially concerning delicate matters like this. But then again - I don't know Frame or his position. But you're right on some things. I can't validate any argument on CCP's side. They played bad business making moves like this without at least some sort of email or mass in game mail or warning.

Want to explain that logic? Didn't realize buying something now made it vanish instantly. Or are you not getting what your purchasing?

Yet you have
CCP Jian saying every build is a release/launch

CCP Nullabor who thinks its still a beta

and CCP Cmndwang who thinks open beta = release.

Someone needs to be running around with a stick at their office setting the story straight.

Hello guys,

Just a quick clarification: there will be no more resets of any kind since we fully moved to Tranquility.
The description that you see on AUR items in the marketplace right now will be removed during todayGÇÖs Open Beta downtime to reflect this.

Thank you.

This STILL doesn't answer the question clearly. All I'm hearing is "yes, you are right. too bad, we're removing the evidence."

This STILL doesn't answer the question clearly. All I'm hearing is "yes, you are right. too bad, we're removing the evidence."

get your heads outo f your butts people. This isn't even the topic that IronWolf started. I accepted that final reset is finale reset. I got everything that CCP promissed us in the merc pack and more. When I got the pack I only got 4k arum then it got buffed to 40k in a month. I got the things I asked for as well as 2 sets of Skinweaves, a 'Exile' assult Rifle and 25 'Quafe' VK0 Scout suits. I think that this is an amazing deal for playing a FREE game. I got into the beta for free and gave the code I got from the Pack to my brother and we have fun playing the game. When I bought the Merc pack I didn't expect to have resets that allowed me to play with aurum weapons and dropsuits. Get over yourselves and play the game. CCP honored my agreement. Take a few seconds and think if they have honored your's. If you respond to this comment then it is obvious that they did honor it.

get your heads outo f your butts people. This isn't even the topic that IronWolf started. I accepted that final reset is finale reset. I got everything that CCP promissed us in the merc pack and more. When I got the pack I only got 4k arum then it got buffed to 40k in a month. I got the things I asked for as well as 2 sets of Skinweaves, a 'Exile' assult Rifle and 25 'Quafe' VK0 Scout suits. I think that this is an amazing deal for playing a FREE game. I got into the beta for free and gave the code I got from the Pack to my brother and we have fun playing the game. When I bought the Merc pack I didn't expect to have resets that allowed me to play with aurum weapons and dropsuits. Get over yourselves and play the game. CCP honored my agreement. Take a few seconds and think if they have honored your's. If you respond to this comment then it is obvious that they did honor it.

get your heads outo f your butts people. This isn't even the topic that IronWolf started. I accepted that final reset is finale reset. I got everything that CCP promissed us in the merc pack and more. When I got the pack I only got 4k arum then it got buffed to 40k in a month. I got the things I asked for as well as 2 sets of Skinweaves, a 'Exile' assult Rifle and 25 'Quafe' VK0 Scout suits. I think that this is an amazing deal for playing a FREE game. I got into the beta for free and gave the code I got from the Pack to my brother and we have fun playing the game. When I bought the Merc pack I didn't expect to have resets that allowed me to play with aurum weapons and dropsuits. Get over yourselves and play the game. CCP honored my agreement. Take a few seconds and think if they have honored your's. If you respond to this comment then it is obvious that they did honor it.

I've got it, everyone who wants their AUR back should get it. Everyone who feels perfectly fine with their purchases will not. Then everyone wins.

Well I didn't spend my Aur stupidly so no problem with that here but as I said, you get our aurum reset you get your char reset, otherwise you're getting the advantage of aurum boosters twice without paying for it.

This was the offer, if you don't like it, take it up with CCP. They offered it, we bought it, now they realize it was a bad idea and just keep our money.

And now the counter-argument being made is that, not only should we get screwed if we don't ask for a refund, but if we DO we lose all of our skill points? Why does this seem fair to you people?

no you got absolutely everything you paid for. you get to use the aurum how ever you see fit. what noc is asking for is that he get to use up all the aur he has now on boosters/gear etc and gaing sp/isk off of it, then have it all restored at a later date so that he can use it a second time. explain to me how that logic

Again, take it up with CCP, it's not MY problem that their offer was illogical.

if mommy tells you to slow down on the cookies due to her not making anymore, the kids tend to listen.

Hello guys,

Just a quick clarification: there will be no more resets of any kind since we fully moved to Tranquility.
The description that you see on AUR items in the marketplace right now will be removed during todayGÇÖs Open Beta downtime to reflect this.

Thank you.

Again, take it up with CCP, it's not MY problem that their offer was illogical.

Again, take it up with CCP, it's not MY problem that their offer was illogical.

I'd actually prefer to keep SP and let them keep their AUR. Whats $20 vs hours spent grinding skill points.

However, I do feel people were screwed over in that they were not flat out told, in writing, (link the post if you dispute this, thanks) that the last reset was the final reset for both characters and AUR.

"You should have known" Sorry my magic 8-ball was broken.

"It was mentioned third-hand from (insert random IRC channel) at (insert random time)" Oh..Well shame on me for not being in IRC or accepting info from anyone other than CCP directly.

Hello guys,

Just a quick clarification: there will be no more resets of any kind since we fully moved to Tranquility.
The description that you see on AUR items in the marketplace right now will be removed during todayGÇÖs Open Beta downtime to reflect this.

Thank you.

I'm sure you don't mean these changes in descriptions would also affect the terms for those who have already bought the items previously? Since, you know, that would be illegal. You can't change a contract after-the-fact without a meeting of minds and both parties agreeing to it.

For those who plan on asking for reimbursements, take screenshots or photos of the pages in question so you have some proof, since CCP seems to try to hide this under a rug.

I have two merc packs (one that I can't use, but that's another topic), and I have no plans on asking for reimbursements since I have only spent money on boosters and the cheap AUR items.

In any case, really poor communication from CCP.

u know those 2 things you hit X on when getting into BETa game? those say they can do whatever they want :D

Unfortunately that was part of the contract, the contract holder has the ability to change it to whatever without having to notify you.
I mean how man of you read though your credit card contracts or bank contracts? There is such clause in there. The most memorable exercise in this power was by Bank of America hiking fees and the news broke out over it. Of course it was a bad move on BoA's side but none the less it shows its a power they have and reserve to whenever they feel like.

Almost every EULA I ever read has also included this also if you been noticing the nature of betas these days quite of few of them are money grabs and money spent during beta are never refunded ,ever. Just we're lucky to have a refund with every reset so far until the 'last' recent which I actually treated as the 'last' reset so I made sure I spent my aurum wisely.

Maybe that works in America, but not in EU.

Lol ... that works in ANY contract ... if it says they can change it without notice and you've agreed to it by clicking X.

Good luck in court !

Did I summarize this correctly?

This definitely appears to be unethical behavior on the part of the gamer....who is just trying to complain about terms being used by CCP because CCP doesnt want new players to look at this as the final release since they are still going to be doing alot of changes.

No. You summarized it pretty much the opposite of what we've been discussing for four pages.



It's definitely unethical behavior, but not from players; from CCP. This is only until they clarify the terms and don't try to retroactively change advertised features - namely refunding AUR at commercial launch. Open beta is open beta, not commercial launch, no matter what CCP fanbois claim.

Right now it looks like they're trying to pull a bait and switch, and not delivering on their promise.

Our side of the argument is simple: you were warned there were no more wipes, which obviously ment no more AUR reimbursements. The only people who have a right to complain are the ones who don't use the forums or actively seek dust info.

And commercial launch is when a game goes public - never really states a completed product.

Terms say CCP has to give us all out AUR back on commercial release (which would be TODAY if open beta is release) OR they have to give equal value in compensation (so they have to give you 20$ in game content if you bought the merc pack) that is legally binding and there is no way around it.

This. Anyone who disagrees are ******* idiots, read the dev posts, they said this will be last reset; Why do you expect to boost yourself with merc pack aur and then get the aur back, and yet not sp reset at some later "release"?


You clearly didn't read the terms of use that got spit out at you everytime you got onto the game for months. They have the right to change the game at any time for any reason with no notice.

You clearly didn't read the terms of use that got spit out at you everytime you got onto the game for months. They have the right to change the game at any time for any reason with no notice.

I'd actually prefer to keep SP and let them keep their AUR. Whats $20 vs hours spent grinding skill points.

However, I do feel people were screwed over in that they were not flat out told, in writing, (link the post if you dispute this, thanks) that the last reset was the final reset for both characters and AUR.

"You should have known" Sorry my magic 8-ball was broken.

"It was mentioned third-hand from (insert random IRC channel) at (insert random time)" Oh..Well shame on me for not being in IRC or accepting info from anyone other than CCP directly.

This. Anyone who disagrees are ******* idiots, read the dev posts, they said this will be last reset; Why do you expect to boost yourself with merc pack aur and then get the aur back, and yet not sp reset at some later "release"?


You clearly didn't read the terms of use that got spit out at you everytime you got onto the game for months. They have the right to change the game at any time for any reason with no notice.

I'm sorry but you clearly don't know what you are talking about. They have the right to change the game yes, but that is the games terms of service. The merc pack and aurs terms of service are a COMPLETELY seperate entity then the terms you have when you boot up the game. The terms of the merc pack are clear. Upon every wipe AND the commercial release we are to get reimbursed our items, or be fairly compensated.

Ok. But if we are really talking in all fairness, then CCP should also wipe every character up to this point so all the open beta players will have an even start point with us.

If you read earlier in the thread you would see that I said I don't want a refund, I spent my stuff and am happy with what I got. This is about CCP pulling a dirty move by lying in a product description on more that one occasion, and the fact that they should be held responsible for their lie.

Also don't forget if you purchase the merc pack you were supposed to get 4 day early start on the commercial release. We just gonna forget about that too?

And sir you seem overly mad. You seem to forget, if they don't want to give back all the AUR and items they can also give items of equal value in addition as well. I am being logical and using established facts and laws. You are responding with some form of hate, and your posts carry a malice tone through your text.

Think he is more mad then me.

Actually going through the merc pack, the way it's worded it looks like CCP never intended to wipe for full release and give all the merc stuff back, which I agree is insanely stupid. It would be like giving a free merc pack out. But I find it funny that CCP lied to its players and decide they're just going to try and push it off, and worse is the community is trying to defend them because they don't want to lose their precious items.

Actually an apology from CCP would be welcomed above everything else. You know a "sorry we lied about what we were selling you" something along those lines.

When I bought them (My various Dust DLCs), it was with the understanding that upon full release that I'd be reimbursed with at least items of similar value. Quietly removing those terms is dirty. Not even EA would do that and not honor the original terms. lol

whats not to understand when ccp reimbursed everyone before open beta and said no more resets were happening?
its not like when u spent the money u ever had the option of gettin a full cash refund or something. The money was always tied to the game and CCP informed everyone that they wont be doing anymore wipes meaning no SP resets and AUR resets
thus ppl knew if they spent the AUR which was refunded again there was not gonna be another one.

Playing ignorant does not mean CCP lied in anyway. IF ppl wanted the AUR they got reimbursed to be used at release then WHY DID U SPEND IT AGAIN WHEN THEY SAID NO MORE RESETS USE WISELY

If CCP didnt inform u then yes this rant about AUR reset would be warranted but they did.
Also AUR reset tbqh would mean an SP reset since u already used said AUR to gain SP and thus resetting that already spent AUR on boosters would mean resetting ur SP.....and lets face it do u really want to start from scratch again just to do the SAME ******* thing over again?

#Logic

Because OPEN BETA = retail release, right? lol So basically you're telling me that all the open betas I've played in the past few years were indicative of the full product? Battlefield...Resistance...Socom... Their terrible betas = their releases!

#logic

You say that like I want a stat wipe. lol To be honest, another wipe would probably cause me to stop playing Dust.

The terms, before they were changed, said every wipe AND upon retail release, the items would be reset. To my knowledge, OPEN BETA =/= RETAIL RELEASE, so we're due another restock.

But if the terms were changed quietly and the old terms under which I bought my DLC aren't honored, then it's on CCP, not the consumer.

goes back to my original point
they informed ppl of the change yet u still went ahead and spent it knowing this.
who is really at fault? someone who cant read and comprehend or someone who tries to inform their consumers and the consumer still fails to listen.

lets say the law states u cant use ur cellphone and drive or u will get arrested but that law 2 weeks ago stated u could of used it and no penalty and they told ppl about the change but u ignored the change and used ur cellphone while driving and got arrested are u gonna look at the judge with a straight face and say that wasnt the original law so u should be excused?

**** changes, its not like they stole ur money. u already had it locked within dust so even if upon full release u didnt like the game u couldnt get a cash refund back, u got ur AUR back and still chose to spend it while knowing fully well no resets were happening.

Again. if u really wanted that AUR/stuff saved for release then u wouldnt have used it after they said no resets. Stop being greedy.

When I bought them (My various Dust DLCs), it was with the understanding that upon full release that I'd be reimbursed with at least items of similar value. Quietly removing those terms is dirty. Not even EA would do that and not honor the original terms. lol

I am no lawyer, but I think CCP is going to have a hard time getting out of refunding the AUR.

On the contrary, allt they have to do is keep the "Beta" sticker on forever. If that happens, the only people that suffer are us players. CCP still gets their money through PSN transactions, beta or not.

Stop crying about this unless you want the game in perpetual Beta. You think an organization with a decade of game making, producing and publishing experience does not have a team of lawyers who dissect every legal agreement CCP produces? Where is your team of lawyers?

lets say the law states u cant use ur cellphone and drive or u will get arrested but that law 2 weeks ago stated u could of used it and no penalty and they told ppl about the change but u ignored the change and used ur cellphone while driving and got arrested are u gonna look at the judge with a straight face and say that wasnt the original law so u should be excused?

I would think of something catastrophic happen and they had to wipe all stats I would imagine all Aur will be refunded.

IF there is no wipe rather they go straight into commercial release they won't need to refund your Aur if they aren't doing a complete wipe.

In other words if they don't do anymore wipes why would they give you guys free Aur? If there's no more wipes when commercial release comes out you spent the Aur you paid for therefore there is no refund. IF there is wipe as I said ^ I would imagine they would give everybody the Merc packs ect. that they bought.

Pre-open-beta, the Merc Pack terms SPECIFICALLY stated that we get a full credit of the Merc pack on commercial release. No ambiguity, no "only if there's a reset". The closest we have to any uncertainty about what's being offered is that they can give us an "equivalent" instead of the actual item that was included in the Merc Pack.

Why has this thread been dredged up from the depths of the forums?

Because the issue hasn't been resolved? Derp

There are still some threads which are significantly more active than this one. This was necro'd from three months ago.
Why can't people wait to see what actually happens before whinging?

Or you could let the moderators moderate instead of posting off topic crap. herp derp

Highlighted the on topic part of my post, due to your apparent inability to read entire posts.

And who the **** are you to tell people to hurry up and wait? Let the mods moderate.

Just got back from a helpful chat from CCP Nullabor via IRC

Essentially 'we think' NDA is getting lifted tomorrow however pending legal team CCP Null did say he poked people and hopefully a full and clear post comes out. So no promises that tomorrow NDA is getting lifted yet. Wait for the official posting declaring such before going hog wild with your crazy LAV surfing skills video.

As for the folks who overspent on Aurum items. The move to TQ on the tenth earlier this month is the 'commercial release' as far as the PSN store items descriptions are concerned thus forth ergo, NO MORE AURUM RESETS. This however does not mean that 'beta is over' as there is much more work to be done but truly means no more resets no more refunds. If you feel you have been wronged in any way I highly encourage to use the petition system tomorrow reasonably and try to negotiate a refund as individuals.

Bottom Line though is that there is a bit of confusion on CCP end as well because CCP Nullabor didn't have the full picture either but at least he was kind enough to poke the people involved in it.

This little gem will continue to live on thanks to Microsoft Word