DUST Search - A serious thread about Mass Drivers

Tiel Syysch wrote:

Overlord Ulath wrote:

Enji Elric wrote:

Overlord Ulath wrote:

Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics.

TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top.

THE fact that you wrote "I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong."

means your argument is invalid
you suppose you could have been hit by a flux grenade before you got hit with the MD (flux grenades do 1200 damage to shields)

Except as I die I would have easily seen a flux go off. Be sensible. In the instant before a grenade hits you can be tapped by a bullet without knowing it, but if anything that would have caused large damage had connected, it would have been noticed. You see the flux fields go off when you die right after a flux hits, same as you see an OB strike landing around you or see tank blaster rounds splash off of the surroundings when shot at by a tank.

Your point is poorly thought out and unreasonable. Think before you post negatively.

EDIT: I'm fully aware of the power of flux grenades, I use them myself on my driver fit.

Sounds like you got direct hit headshotted. Depending on the person's skills, one of those could do more damage than you have hp. I've dropped some skinweave heavies down to about 10% armor with one shot before.

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Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:08:00 - [61] - Quote My point is fully thought out. If your not paying attention and you die. It doesn't make that weapon op. I kill plenty of players with the md landing on the player just as my flux goes off and I get hatemail about their loadout. And how there is no possible way I could have killed them without my "op" mass driver.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 37	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:09:00 - [62] - Quote I beleive a slight buff was needed but we got a slight over buff, Also some of the MDs arn`t doing much self damage and are being used like SGs. I think the FGs DEFINITLY need a large self damage and the MDs need a lower ammo in mag count, but should keep total ammo.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:21:00 - [63] - Quote Here's a simple challenge to anyone who thinks that the MD is OP: Use it. Go ahead, pick it up and use it. Don't be afraid. It won't cost you much SP and you already have all your light weapon skills polished. It's not like I'm asking you to skill into heavy. Decimate everyone with your OP weapon, then come back here and report your 34/0 Games and your 10.9 KDR and we'll talk about how it makes you so OP. If on the other hand you find that your KDR has taken a hit and you aren't getting the same kill streaks that you do with your AR I'd like you to come back and report that as well. Talk is cheap. If you truly believe what you claim it won't be hard to make your point in the only way that counts here, on the battlefield.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:24:00 - [64] - Quote Skihids wrote: Here's a simple challenge to anyone who thinks that the MD is OP: Use it. Go ahead, pick it up and use it. Don't be afraid. It won't cost you much SP and you already have all your light weapon skills polished. It's not like I'm asking you to skill into heavy. Decimate everyone with your OP weapon, then come back here and report your 34/0 Games and your 10.9 KDR and we'll talk about how it makes you so OP. If on the other hand you find that our KDR has taken a hit and you aren't getting the same kill streaks that you do with your AR I'd like you to come back and report that as well. Talk is cheap. If you truly believe what you claim it won't be hard to make your point in the only way that counts here, on the battlefield. ^^^^ this +1
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 633	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:26:00 - [65] - Quote Overlord Ulath wrote: Enji Elric wrote: Overlord Ulath wrote: Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics. TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top. THE fact that you wrote "I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong." means your argument is invalid you suppose you could have been hit by a flux grenade before you got hit with the MD (flux grenades do 1200 damage to shields) Except as I die I would have easily seen a flux go off. Be sensible. In the instant before a grenade hits you can be tapped by a bullet without knowing it, but if anything that would have caused large damage had connected, it would have been noticed. You see the flux fields go off when you die right after a flux hits, same as you see an OB strike landing around you or see tank blaster rounds splash off of the surroundings when shot at by a tank. Your point is poorly thought out and unreasonable. Think before you post negatively. EDIT: I'm fully aware of the power of flux grenades, I use them myself on my driver fit. Sounds like you got direct hit headshotted. Depending on the person's skills, one of those could do more damage than you have hp. I've dropped some skinweave heavies down to about 10% armor with one shot before.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:28:00 - [66] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Overlord Ulath wrote: Enji Elric wrote: Overlord Ulath wrote: Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics. TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top. THE fact that you wrote "I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong." means your argument is invalid you suppose you could have been hit by a flux grenade before you got hit with the MD (flux grenades do 1200 damage to shields) Except as I die I would have easily seen a flux go off. Be sensible. In the instant before a grenade hits you can be tapped by a bullet without knowing it, but if anything that would have caused large damage had connected, it would have been noticed. You see the flux fields go off when you die right after a flux hits, same as you see an OB strike landing around you or see tank blaster rounds splash off of the surroundings when shot at by a tank. Your point is poorly thought out and unreasonable. Think before you post negatively. EDIT: I'm fully aware of the power of flux grenades, I use them myself on my driver fit. Sounds like you got direct hit headshotted. Depending on the person's skills, one of those could do more damage than you have hp. I've dropped some skinweave heavies down to about 10% armor with one shot before. and that was terribly hard to do ( arcing the headshot, knowing the heavy is like frankenstien's monster and will go after you)
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:29:00 - [67] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: I think if your getting killed by two grenades from an assault mass driver, he's using a a good mass driver with damage mods and your running a scout suit. I'm not getting killed by two grenades. It's more like 4 because none of them hit me directly. Another thing that is ridiculous about the MD is that the splash damage moves your aim off. So, they could spray and spray and it's hard for you to keep the aim on them. Mr RnD, That isin fact the whole point of the assault mass driver: it is a squad assist weapon that is first a damage suppressor and second an Aoe indirect fire system. Anyone standing in the splash zone tends to develop the opinion that the MD is a problem while anyone sighting in on a MD wielding merc tends to not be as impressed with its offensive potential. Working as intended. And folks, just to be clear, when a system or game mechanic generates a lot of angst on both sides of the balanced argument (like AR for a long time and MD recently) that points to a more balanced system than either side of the argument is likely to agree with. Mass drivers are to Dust as ECM is to Eve.
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:56:00 - [68] - Quote Overlord Ulath wrote: Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics. TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top. Let's be clear and dispense with the hyperbole, shall we? What you post is what YOU know to be true: you were either uninjured or lightly damaged and got one shotted by a previously less effective weapon system. What you don't know, in fact, what you have no ******* idea about is: since Chromosone launched, exactly how many EXO-5 Mass Driver rounds have one shotted a target? Guess what? I don't know either. Do you want to know who does know? That's right! C C P. the devs know how truly effective mass drivers are. Where they are effective, against who,employed how, etc. they aren't guessing and in a few rare cases they may not even be playing ( not likely but...) But they have exclusive and extensive access to a myriad of hard statistical data. All of us trigger monkeys can wail and scream about the unkindness and blindly imbalanced efforts by the devs but we (and I humbly include myself in 'us') often forget the other side of the game development Coin. Hard science, mathematics and statistical data & analysis have an integral and vital role in pushing game quality and effectiveness to new levels. Peace. Open your mind. Empty your cup that you might be filled with new wisdom.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:13:00 - [69] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: Are you telling me you seriously expect a - grenade- launcher to be a direct hit weapon? Of course they're going to miss and kill you, who would waste time trying to get only direct hits? Because only direct hits will net enough damage to breach a serious shield tank. that way the second shot has a chance of killing you. As a logi i use the md to lat down a wall of shrapnel to cover an advance or as a final "GET OFF ME!" Mass drivers have splash damage, but someone has to be already jacked up for splash to pull a kill. If it were otherwise I'd be running 1st or 2nd place for kills, instead of being there for crapping ammo, constantly repping and stabbing fallen teammates with needles. Who goes for direct hits? I do. because if i dont land at least one on you i get to replace yet another logi fit.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:17:00 - [70] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: Are you telling me you seriously expect a - grenade- launcher to be a direct hit weapon? Of course they're going to miss and kill you, who would waste time trying to get only direct hits? Because only direct hits will net enough damage to breach a serious shield tank. that way the second shot has a chance of killing you. As a logi i use the md to lat down a wall of shrapnel to cover an advance or as a final "GET OFF ME!" Mass drivers have splash damage, but someone has to be already jacked up for splash to pull a kill. If it were otherwise I'd be running 1st or 2nd place for kills, instead of being there for crapping ammo, constantly repping and stabbing fallen teammates with needles. Who goes for direct hits? I do. because if i dont land at least one on you i get to replace yet another logi fit. try flux grenades against any shield tank... heck through one at a gunloggi just for fun

Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:22:00 - [71] - Quote Got other things i need to do befire i can train flux. namely train skills to better keep you chumps upright and firing. Priorities dont you know. By the way, one in every three nanite cocktails is mixed with fine beers that the gallente mudwrestling teams skinny dip in.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:23:00 - [72] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: Are you telling me you seriously expect a - grenade- launcher to be a direct hit weapon? Of course they're going to miss and kill you, who would waste time trying to get only direct hits? Because only direct hits will net enough damage to breach a serious shield tank. that way the second shot has a chance of killing you. As a logi i use the md to lat down a wall of shrapnel to cover an advance or as a final "GET OFF ME!" Mass drivers have splash damage, but someone has to be already jacked up for splash to pull a kill. If it were otherwise I'd be running 1st or 2nd place for kills, instead of being there for crapping ammo, constantly repping and stabbing fallen teammates with needles. Who goes for direct hits? I do. because if i dont land at least one on you i get to replace yet another logi fit. By direct hit I mean the grenade actually hitting the enemies body and exploding, not hitting their feet and doing the same amount direct damage as most people do. From what I've seen your a newer player, so I'm assuming you don't have all of your skills up like the people your shooting at. Ask most good MD users and they'll tell you that splash damage is fine with them, and going for direct hits is fine but trust me when I tell you this- if you'd been playing against say, a member of the Imperfects you would have been dead within seconds. Your standing in the open trying to get direct hits. Your wasting your time trying to get the elevation right, while also dealing with enemy fire, enemy movement (both strafing and running towards you) and the fact that the trail of Skokie gives away your position. You want direct damage, use the breach.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:26:00 - [73] - Quote I go for direct hits within 20 meters. if you are further out you can safely assume the repair beam keeping that annoying heavy up while you shoot him is mine. i smoke cigars, dispense bullets and generally avoid direct combat unless supported by many mean people. Also for now my crapass mds serve me well. normally i just use em to sow panic while my boys charge your position. Like i said. i get more WP by acting like a logibro rather than trying to farm kills
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:27:00 - [74] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Got other things i need to do befire i can train flux. namely train skills to better keep you chumps upright and firing. Priorities dont you know. By the way, one in every three nanite cocktails is mixed with fine beers that the gallente mudwrestling teams skinny dip in. grenades is already leveled for you.... flux is very cheap sp wise.... pick it up on the next sp reset this wednesday (today)
Tammerion Codex Troopers 7	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:33:00 - [75] - Quote Ok, and lets make Heavy machine guns reload after one barrel revolution....
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:35:00 - [76] - Quote I dont think the OP realizes that a six shot, impact fused revolver grenade launcher is a real weapon in real life. My other real counterpoint shall be the four shot mass driver was ******** as hell when you realize all the models have six chambers.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:41:00 - [77] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I dont think the OP realizes that a six shot, impact fused revolver grenade launcher is a real weapon in real life. My other real counterpoint shall be the four shot mass driver was ******** as hell when you realize all the models have six chambers. yessir and one of my favorite things while in Iraq, even though I really didnt use it much :) http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/800px-m-32-grenade-launcher.jpg You want me to be OP? give me one of these... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RaZ7btje5Jo/TKeCx-T23WI/AAAAAAAAA5M/VVPN1OnAYxc/s1600/Mk_47_Striker_40_automatic_grenade_launcher_US_Army_United_States_001.jpg
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:45:00 - [78] - Quote I used the MK-19 in the marines a decade ago. earlier version of that monster.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:50:00 - [79] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I used the MK-19 in the marines a decade ago. earlier version of that monster. yea we still have Mk-19s In the Army I don't really understand what the big deal is with the MK47 other than the sight... and I'll probably never fire one considering it's just now hiting SF
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.26 09:53:00 - [80] - Quote Probably the reciever doesnt weigh seventy five pounds

Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 10:04:00 - [81] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Probably the reciever doesnt weigh seventy five pounds yea kinda forgot about that.... its one of those things you just get used to
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.26 10:06:00 - [82] - Quote OH SH** just had a thought.... since this game is supposed to make you feel like without these suits you wouldn't be able to walk and fire these weapons... How about a Heavy Mass Driver.... Heavy suit with a New Eden Equivalent to the MK-27 would be a more of a Long range support weapon similar to the man-portable Mortars and since heavys cant carry nanohives he would only get one box of 40 http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/mk27-e.html
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 76	Posted - 2012.12.26 10:09:00 - [83] - Quote could care less it feels balanced to me i kill them they kill me how it should be espicely when running cheap suits
Fluffeh Ingle Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 22	Posted - 2012.12.26 11:24:00 - [84] - Quote Enji Elric wrote: [ http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RaZ7btje5Jo/TKeCx-T23WI/AAAAAAAAA5M/VVPN1OnAYxc/s1600/Mk_47_Striker_40_automatic_grenade_launcher_US_Army_United_States_001.jpg My Drunken Logibro Fu needs this.
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2012.12.26 15:15:00 - [85] - Quote The other day i brought a cheap Madrugar out to check the the Map and learn the roads. On top of all the MT Forge gunners and Dancing Swarmers a few MDs also joined the party. The idea that a MD can take out a tank, cheap or not is kinda cute. LOL That red dot was hiding behind a hilltop and kept popping MD rounds one after the other. It is interesting and cute at the same time.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 37	Posted - 2012.12.26 15:39:00 - [86] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I dont think the OP realizes that a six shot, impact fused revolver grenade launcher is a real weapon in real life. My other real counterpoint shall be the four shot mass driver was ******** as hell when you realize all the models have six chambers. YES BUT THE AMERICAN GUNS ARE ALWAYS OP!
BMSTUBBYx Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.12.26 16:18:00 - [87] - Quote LOL all of above ^. Charge ISK for ammo on all none BPO weapons including all derp derp vehicles. No more nerf or buff needed, that is all and you are welcome. Turn 2 back to beta testing.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.12.26 16:40:00 - [88] - Quote BMSTUBBYx wrote: LOL all of above ^. Charge ISK for ammo on all none BPO weapons including all derp derp vehicles. No more nerf or buff needed, that is all and you are welcome. Turn 2 back to beta testing. 1000 ISK / Sniper round
DEADPOOL5241 Doomheim 212	Posted - 2012.12.26 16:41:00 - [89] - Quote @ OP could it be that MD are not that OP but being played correctly? When this game goes live, with bigger maps and more players guns like this will fit in perfectly. BTW, aiming with a MD is harder then an AR. You need to get the right depth and distance to hit someone. I love my MD, it makes me feel like a Demoman from TF2 again, just need my remote explosives to work on my K/M and ill be set.
CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.26 16:51:00 - [90] - Quote OP: Your argument is invalid. If you disagree, then can you kindly explain that to the present day United States Marines that their M32 MGL is over powered and has too many rounds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkor_MGL



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