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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
132
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Posted - 2012.12.26 17:11:00 -
[91] - Quote
MD used to be garbage of a weapon that everyone was afraid to touch for the fear of getting cooties. Now it got a small but reasonable boost and a few ppl are using it which is great and diversifies the game. All the whinning comes from but hurt ppl who end up being killed a couple of times by a weapon and say it's OP. When a MD wielding player consistently tops post-game leaderboards or at least scores most kills for the team, then the weapon becomes OP. All I now see is that ppl with AR and HMG dominate leaderboards. MD is not even close. I like how some ppl say that MD used to be a fine support weapon. This is the kinda mentality that boxed everyone into using AR because it was the only viable option. All these other 'fine' weapons were never used by anyone b/c they were garbage. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.26 17:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:MD used to be garbage of a weapon that everyone was afraid to touch for the fear of getting cooties. Now it got a small but reasonable boost and a few ppl are using it which is great and diversifies the game. All the whinning comes from but hurt ppl who end up being killed a couple of times by a weapon and say it's OP. When a MD wielding player consistently tops post-game leaderboards or at least scores most kills for the team, then the weapon becomes OP. All I now see is that ppl with AR and HMG dominate leaderboards. MD is not even close. I like how some ppl say that MD used to be a fine support weapon. This is the kinda mentality that boxed everyone into using AR because it was the only viable option. All these other 'fine' weapons were never used by anyone b/c they were garbage.
Played about 20 matches over the weekend, used Exo MD and got on avg 20 to 30 kills with 3-4 deaths each round. But I work with a nice squad with multiple types of weapons and that is the real killer in this game. AR are great, lasers are great, HMG = awesome but when you get a goo group with diversity it really makes a huge difference. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.12.26 17:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
CaptBuckle wrote:OP: Your argument is invalid. If you disagree, then can you kindly explain that to the present day United States Marines that their M32 MGL is over powered and has too many rounds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkor_MGL
The article mentions that the drum is spring driven, so that would explain the spin given during the reload animation. I thought it was a cheesy cowboy move, but now I can see it is a required part of reloading and it won't grate on me. |
Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2012.12.26 17:50:00 -
[94] - Quote
DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:MD used to be garbage of a weapon that everyone was afraid to touch for the fear of getting cooties. Now it got a small but reasonable boost and a few ppl are using it which is great and diversifies the game. All the whinning comes from but hurt ppl who end up being killed a couple of times by a weapon and say it's OP. When a MD wielding player consistently tops post-game leaderboards or at least scores most kills for the team, then the weapon becomes OP. All I now see is that ppl with AR and HMG dominate leaderboards. MD is not even close. I like how some ppl say that MD used to be a fine support weapon. This is the kinda mentality that boxed everyone into using AR because it was the only viable option. All these other 'fine' weapons were never used by anyone b/c they were garbage. Played about 20 matches over the weekend, used Exo MD and got on avg 20 to 30 kills with 3-4 deaths each round. But I work with a nice squad with multiple types of weapons and that is the real killer in this game. AR are great, lasers are great, HMG = awesome but when you get a goo group with diversity it really makes a huge difference.
How does that compare to when you run with an AR? |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.26 18:03:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tbone322 wrote:DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:MD used to be garbage of a weapon that everyone was afraid to touch for the fear of getting cooties. Now it got a small but reasonable boost and a few ppl are using it which is great and diversifies the game. All the whinning comes from but hurt ppl who end up being killed a couple of times by a weapon and say it's OP. When a MD wielding player consistently tops post-game leaderboards or at least scores most kills for the team, then the weapon becomes OP. All I now see is that ppl with AR and HMG dominate leaderboards. MD is not even close. I like how some ppl say that MD used to be a fine support weapon. This is the kinda mentality that boxed everyone into using AR because it was the only viable option. All these other 'fine' weapons were never used by anyone b/c they were garbage. Played about 20 matches over the weekend, used Exo MD and got on avg 20 to 30 kills with 3-4 deaths each round. But I work with a nice squad with multiple types of weapons and that is the real killer in this game. AR are great, lasers are great, HMG = awesome but when you get a goo group with diversity it really makes a huge difference. How does that compare to when you run with an AR?
About the same more or less. You have to think more about high ground to fire from, then good side cover with an AR. Learning ranges to hit targets or to hit walls around targets to get splash damage is very different then with an AR.
With AR I usually range from 20 to 30 kills with my corp in a squad. But now its a better group with multiple types of damage you can hit your opponent with. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.12.26 18:10:00 -
[96] - Quote
I found it best to tackle MDs either by elevation or by distance. Its hard for those MDs to shoot up. Lasers and snipers work great against mass drivers. However, I dont feel that there should be some sort of penalty using MDs or for that matter anything that has splash damage. FF should be turned on for them. I have been killed my splash damage when the grenade has hit the enemy.
Just my 0.02 FCKNRFNG |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
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Posted - 2012.12.26 19:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
Things will start to get interesting once FF is on. |
Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2012.12.26 19:21:00 -
[98] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:Things will start to get interesting once FF is on.
FF will definitely affect the MD more than any other weapon. I used to love FF in MAG, but having been away from it for such along time I'm almost afraid to have it back lol |
BMSTUBBYx
Doomheim
83
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Posted - 2012.12.26 20:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:Things will start to get interesting once FF is on.
It would be cool if you got a ISK penalty for FF as well as a SP penalty. I hope they introduce FF SOON -« |
CaptBuckle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.12.26 20:18:00 -
[100] - Quote
Is FF actually planned for the final release?
(I better start practicing...or else I might get kicked out of our corp! ) |
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Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2012.12.27 03:49:00 -
[101] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote: I have been killed my splash damage when the grenade has hit the enemy.
Just my 0.02 FCKNRFNG
I shoot people point blank and suicide to deny them warpoints and kill them back. |
Fiddlestaxp
Sil3nt Assassins
30
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Posted - 2012.12.27 04:53:00 -
[102] - Quote
Mass Driver weaknesses: Max ammo- almost requires a nanohive or supply depot to be able to wield the thing for very long. Then again, my main strategy is based on using it as a suppression weapon, so I spam threw my nades in a hurry :/.
Weak at low elevation: Unless your enemy is standing next to a backboard. Its hard to knock down shots when you are posted lower than them. Using a mass driver you pretty much have to position your merc in a high spot or you are going to have to end up hitting a few very difficult or impossible shots in a row to not die.
Teammates can run in front of you and cause a gernade to explode in your face.
Weak against enemy near ridges/rolling hills: On maps like the one they are playing on the game show merc battles the terrain can make the shots very difficult. If you miss even slightly on the upslope of a hill a person is standing behind, they will not be damaged. Ridges create even more problem, even at equal elevation the shot aint happenin. The most fearsome elevation hazard of all is the distant hill. Where some guy with a lazer rifle is watching you. Not doing anything yet. Just watching.
Ineffective against most vehicles:I dunno. It is kinda strong right now and buffing it in any way would be ill advised, but I feel like my gernade launcher should be able to at least do damage to a tank if I hit it with 8 rounds? Dunno. If they end up fixing the reloadammo cap to 4 or 5 they should increase direct damage to vehicles. Would make it more of a antivehicle support gun that can also deal with mercs in its free time.
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Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
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Posted - 2012.12.27 04:58:00 -
[103] - Quote
Skihids wrote:CaptBuckle wrote:OP: Your argument is invalid. If you disagree, then can you kindly explain that to the present day United States Marines that their M32 MGL is over powered and has too many rounds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkor_MGL The article mentions that the drum is spring driven, so that would explain the spin given during the reload animation. I thought it was a cheesy cowboy move, but now I can see it is a required part of reloading and it won't grate on me.
its the same as smacking the bottom of the magazine in an M4 to get the dirt out and make sure its set correctly spin the barrel on this and it does the same... |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.12.27 06:30:00 -
[104] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Mass Driver weaknesses:
Ineffective against most vehicles:I dunno. It is kinda strong right now and buffing it in any way would be ill advised, but I feel like my gernade launcher should be able to at least do damage to a tank if I hit it with 8 rounds? Dunno. If they end up fixing the reloadammo cap to 4 or 5 they should increase direct damage to vehicles. Would make it more of a antivehicle support gun that can also deal with mercs in its free time.
We already have plenty of AV while we have only one area effect weapon.
Carry Flux grenades if you want to kill vehicles. I find one flux and two MD rounds will kill a LAV. Three flux will strip most of a HAV's shields and you might get lucky with your MD. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die
37
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Posted - 2012.12.27 08:10:00 -
[105] - Quote
saying that even if its UP or OP doesn`t matter becuse the US militeary has a grenade luancher aslo with 6 rounds is a redicules stand point, in reality, in modern times do you really think this all is legit? and evan if it was we need balanced weapons none the less. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die
37
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Posted - 2012.12.27 08:12:00 -
[106] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Sentient Archon wrote: I have been killed my splash damage when the grenade has hit the enemy.
Just my 0.02 FCKNRFNG I shoot people point blank and suicide to deny them warpoints and kill them back.
I see FGs and MDs used as SGs. Also off the splash damage topic and to the using other guns as SGs topic, snipers are doing that 2. |
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
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Posted - 2012.12.27 08:20:00 -
[107] - Quote
Shouper of BHD wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Sentient Archon wrote: I have been killed my splash damage when the grenade has hit the enemy.
Just my 0.02 FCKNRFNG I shoot people point blank and suicide to deny them warpoints and kill them back. I see FGs and MDs used as SGs. Also off the splash damage topic and to the using other guns as SGs topic, snipers are doing that 2.
Happened today had a sniper thought he was sneaking up on me to no-scope me..... he didnt like my mass driver in his crotch |
brett morris518
R.I.f.t
6
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Posted - 2012.12.27 11:47:00 -
[108] - Quote
i use a mass driver and i do well with it, but it takes a lot of time and money and sp to do well with them.... ive been using them since the last build, and still for the last month i say "i think im getting used to it... the biggest problem i see isnt the mass driver... its how people react and how easy it is to shoot them once they freak out after the first shot of damage they take |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.12.27 12:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Do you guys think that there's nothing wrong with a grenade launcher that you can fire 6 or 8 grenades without having to reload? That gun requires the least skill in the game but, arguably, the most damaging because it is the splash that wipes you out. You don't even have to hit the guy and you can launch it across the map.
I don't mind the splash damage or its radius....my issue with the MD is the fact that you can miss a guy 6 times and still kill him without a reload. There should be a reload after each grenade or after 2 grenades at maximum. It just doesn't make sense that you can spray all of those grenades and miss and still get the kill.
What you guys think? I don't think you understand the principles of Fragmenting grenades, im going to explain this real slow W H E N ----THEY--- E X P L O D E ---T H E Y ---L A U N C H ----L I T T L E ---B I T S- --O F --M E T A L-- A T ---Y O U -- C A U S I N G--- D A M A G E, grenade launches hit there target my lobbing the grenade, the grenades are NOT subject to a fixed arc where as rounds fired by Assault rifles are (fixed arc: a pre determined path followed by an object"s" witch never changes) it's a grenade launcher it is at this point a "spray and pray" weapon it takes great skill to hit a target at range. i use mass drives they are a pain in the ass to learn to use i know i went through 40 of them before i got it down pat
What's your point, fam? It takes skill IF you hit a target but most of the time they don't. One grenade would wipe you out if it hits you but it's taking 4 or 5 grenades. Which means it is the splash damage compensating for the lack of skill needed to use the weapon.
But my point is that you shouldn't be able to spray 6 grenades so fast like that. I don't care about the damage or splash damage.....but popping out grenades like there's no tomorrow before a reload is silly |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.12.27 13:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
You know, people keep comparing the MD to the assault rifle, in terms of skill. And I don't see how one can....you actually have to hit someone with the AR and the target isn't always a big one.
You can miss with the MD and still kill them. There's no splash damage on the AR..and you have to predict where they're going when they're strafing or trying to dodge bullets.
See the MD as what it is....I'm not disrespecting those that wish to use it but don't compare it to the AR |
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Daalzebul Del'Armgo
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
48
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Posted - 2012.12.27 15:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
Overlord Ulath wrote:Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics.
TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top.
hurm coulda been a lucky head shot? |
CaptBuckle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:40:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:What's your point, fam? It takes skill IF you hit a target but most of the time they don't. One grenade would wipe you out if it hits you but it's taking 4 or 5 grenades. Which means it is the splash damage compensating for the lack of skill needed to use the weapon.
But my point is that you shouldn't be able to spray 6 grenades so fast like that. I don't care about the damage or splash damage.....but popping out grenades like there's no tomorrow before a reload is silly
I completely suck at this game. What you can take from that admission is that I have no skill with the MD or any other weapon, to be honest. My K/D ratio is less than 0.2, most likely. I have used a mass driver almost exclusively for better part of two weeks.
Why do I tell you this? Because I can quite confidently tell you this:
No MD Skills == No MD Kills
And I'm not talking about character skills. I'm talking about player skills: I suck at the whole damn game. In the two weeks I've used the MD, I still don't have to take off my socks to count the number of direct kills I have scored with it. I've gotten quite a few assists, but no direct kills. The direct kills that I have had were usually from militia LAVs. And my firing solutions were all damn close to my targets...but still barely a dent in anyone's shields.
What you should take away from this? If you repeatedly died from an MD, then you were killed by a skilled player...and quite unlikely to have been a scrub like me.
Largest splash radius of an MD round, assuming max character skills, is probably 8 m. Highest rate of fire of an MD is about 1.25 / sec, but most are 1 / sec. Even the most heavily armored fatty should be able to cross 8 meters in a few seconds, thus throwing off an MD spammer's firing solution for the remaining rounds.
Speaking of firing solutions, of those 6 rounds, at least two of them are wasted while finding the right range.
...so....
I have to wonder why, when the first MD round splashes near you, you are then waiting around in one spot for the other 5 or 7 to hit their mark? The purpose of the MD is area denial and suppression. It either discourages the enemy from moving into an area and possibly pins the enemy down, or it encourages the enemy to move out of an area. In the hands of an expert player, it will also result in some kills...but certainly not in the hands of a scrub.
If you don't understand the concepts of area denial, suppression and maneuver, well...I'm sad for you.
But if instead you are thinking you should be able to stand or crouch in one spot and tank splash damage from all 6 or 8 MD rounds? Then I have no pity for you. You needed killing.
(All of that said...if FF is planned for the actual release...I don't know because I haven't seen a reply on my question about that...it will change the dynamics of MD usage all over again.) |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:01:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:You know, people keep comparing the MD to the assault rifle, in terms of skill. And I don't see how one can....you actually have to hit someone with the AR and the target isn't always a big one.
You can miss with the MD and still kill them. There's no splash damage on the AR..and you have to predict where they're going when they're strafing or trying to dodge bullets.
See the MD as what it is....I'm not disrespecting those that wish to use it but don't compare it to the AR And assault rifles don't have a ballistic arc, have WAAAAAAAAAAAY more max ammo, and can't be used to suicide.
Comparing these makes no sense, because the skills are in different areas. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:You know, people keep comparing the MD to the assault rifle, in terms of skill. And I don't see how one can....you actually have to hit someone with the AR and the target isn't always a big one.
You can miss with the MD and still kill them. There's no splash damage on the AR..and you have to predict where they're going when they're strafing or trying to dodge bullets.
See the MD as what it is....I'm not disrespecting those that wish to use it but don't compare it to the AR And assault rifles don't have a ballistic arc, have WAAAAAAAAAAAY more max ammo, and can't be used to suicide. Comparing these makes no sense, because the skills are in different areas.
Ydubbs does not understand that using a MD is harder then an AR. Even with 6 shots, the first 1-2 are range finding.
MD requires much more thinking and planning ahead of your targets then an AR, Laser or HMG. MD does take skill no matter what OP or anyone else thinks. But because they get killed a few times with a MD, then call it OP. Maybe it is for right now, maybe for the little maps we have, but when the maps get bigger and badder, they will be a great defensive weapon and a great group suppression tool.
Can you abuse MD, sure. But same can be said of most weapons when you have the skill points to pump into them. Throw a damage Mod on and you have a powerful weapon. But each weapon in the right hands with a skilled player makes that weapon OP. Are MD as OP as a tank, NO. Are the as OP as a dropship, NO. Are they as OP as AR's still are, NO.
As far as splash damage, dude if you are not hitting within half of inch to your target you are doing very minimal damage. MD are not spray and pray, if you do that you run out of rounds or dead.
MD forces you to almost always carry a nanohive because of the lack of ammo. That or you sit by the Ammo dump all day. MD in a group fire fight, wheres its you vs 2-5 targets wont win as often as a good AR in the same situation. Oh and MD head shots are so rare that if you get killed by one, then you gotta appreciate the skill that it took to kill you.
Stop the Nerf threads, posting this type of thread shows who the players are and who the whiners are.
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Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:38:00 -
[115] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49010&find=unread
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