You act like Dust CSM will operate in a separate ecosystem. It isnt.

???
Why have a second council just for Dust? Not just have a seat or 2 on the current CSM? 1 universe, 1 war, 1 CSM :P
That's why Sha will get my vote if he runs for it. Failing that, Zionshad.

It could be that, but I'm just saying that it is possible to hold two councils based on depth of the game. Why restricted ourselves if we donGÇÖt have to?

???
Why have a second council just for Dust? Not just have a seat or 2 on the current CSM? 1 universe, 1 war, 1 CSM :P
That's why Sha will get my vote if he runs for it. Failing that, Zionshad.

Everyone should know my stance on this by now, but I'll wade in all the same.

Firstly, I'm hedging for us to have seats on the current CSM. Why? Because then we'll be representing the DUST COmmunity from a platform already well established and listened to by CCP. Giving us equal opportunity to talk to developers.

On the other hand, trying to 'muscle in' on what is essentially a 'EVE-only' Club is very tough (unless everyone in DUST beta has an EVE Account over 30 days old and votes for one candidate.)

I suggested in my current thread about this very issue that we could form our own council. Elected and unofficial (at fdirst) but we could possibly get endorsement from CCP about making it an Official CPM (Council of Planetary Management.)

They'd have to handle the elections, as they'd know who was alts etc, able to limit the voting to 1 vote per account, etc.

Everyone should know my stance on this by now, but I'll wade in all the same.

Firstly, I'm hedging for us to have seats on the current CSM. Why? Because then we'll be representing the DUST COmmunity from a platform already well established and listened to by CCP. Giving us equal opportunity to talk to developers.

On the other hand, trying to 'muscle in' on what is essentially a 'EVE-only' Club is very tough (unless everyone in DUST beta has an EVE Account over 30 days old and votes for one candidate.)

I suggested in my current thread about this very issue that we could form our own council. Elected and unofficial (at fdirst) but we could possibly get endorsement from CCP about making it an Official CPM (Council of Planetary Management.)

They'd have to handle the elections, as they'd know who was alts etc, able to limit the voting to 1 vote per account, etc.

This is a very civil conversation we are having here and I am glad to see folks trying to work together on this so that we can benefit from this in the long run.

I have an Eve Online account and I remember voting in the recent CSM election in favor of Seleene who ultimately became a member of the CSM who wants to represent the interests of the industrial players of Eve Online. More than 10,000 players (alts excluded) practically voted for The Mittani alone during that same election which later gave him the position of Chairman of the CSM. The events that followed was a clear demonstration of how influential the CSM members have become.

CCP has its own separate council that works with the CSM alone with their own Board of Directors that represent the private investors that helped fund CCP from the beginning. It is speculated that CCP might (please note that this is just rumor) file an IPO one day and then become publicly owned. The board of directors would change accordingly like any other publicly owned business. But that doesn't mean the CSM will be gone. The CSM has become such an important part of Eve Online's progress and success that the CSM is now seen as a board of directors for players that cannot be messed with. If anything doesn't go the way they hoped or at least compromised for, they can rally enough players to cripple Eve Online and Dust forever. Kind of like a poison pill policy should greed ever get in the way.

Again, the IPO thing is just a rumor based on the recent news of CCP receiving millions of dollars for Dust advertising from a private investment group.

Hm, Maybe it would be best instead of forming our own council to elect one or two people of our own to simply be a part of the EVE one to represent our interest and things I posted above.

YouGÇÖre restricting yourself and the community by attempting to divide it from the beginning.

Why vote? Everyone knows its just gonna be Imperfects on Dust CSM

???
Why have a second council just for Dust? Not just have a seat or 2 on the current CSM? 1 universe, 1 war, 1 CSM :P
That's why Sha will get my vote if he runs for it. Failing that, Zionshad.

I highly, highly doubt that. CSM is about politics and you guys have zero experience in EVE politics, or at least zero experience at the EVE politics that matter like Nullsec warfare and the large alliances like ours. You guys backing someone with experience would be a good thing but i highly doubt you'd be able to pull it off for at least a couple of years.




Zion's a nice bloke but he's too slippery and not a very honest guy. He says what people want to hear which is good for politics alone if you never plan to actually do anything but eventually he'd have to act and make enemys and he claims to hate us Goons but he's done his fair share of playing nice with us even though he apparently hates us. Either he's got no backbone and will let us do what we want, when we want or he's very, very two faced and long term that does not bode well for him with something like the CSM.

You'd be better off voting for me for Sha.

Zion's a nice bloke but he's too slippery and not a very honest guy. He says what people want to hear which is good for politics alone if you never plan to actually do anything but eventually he'd have to act and make enemys and he claims to hate us Goons but he's done his fair share of playing nice with us even though he apparently hates us. Either he's got no backbone and will let us do what we want, when we want or he's very, very two faced and long term that does not bode well for him with something like the CSM.

You'd be better off voting for me for Sha.

...or several elected people to sit ON the current CSM.

Bottom line you do nothing for this community now, so why should anyone trust you to do anything then? The last Goon to be in the CSM was fired from both the CSM and banned from EVE. Heck you were even fired from writting for theMittani.com (where Marc the editor came on our show "Podside" and stated it and added you were crap).

But hey glad to hear your running and GG on the forum PvP

Since we're in beta, CSM candidates should be decided on who has put in the highest number of unique tickets into the bug reports. It's a simple metric, and one that would favor the people who are actually trying to help the game reach release rather than the "I'm better than you" chest thumpers and political backstabbers.

Need 2 CSMs tbqh.
EVE link can be easily discussed with both CSMs and CCP having a sitdown imo

Words.

Speaking solely as an observer here, Zion Shad lacks an element of knowledge in the way things work in Eve Online. Perhaps because he doesn't play the game or perhaps because he doesn't have enough connection in it but I'm hard pressed to vote for someone who is inexperienced in these matters.

Dust 514 is an addition, an expansion, to Eve Online. It is not a separate entity and as such should be treated as such. To we, the Eve Online community, it's not very practical to vote in someone who only knows the Dust 514 element.

I disagree fully on two parts here. First I have played EVE under a few accounts starting back in GÇÖ07 where a death in the family took me away. I came back around GÇÖ09 until the Summer of Rage hit and people started leaving the game due to dissatisfaction. My current start of me participating in EVE is that my laptop currently canGÇÖt support it, but will have a new one come Christmas. So I will be on EVE in one month. But I will always be a DUST Merc.

Second, DUST is much more than some simple GÇ£add onGÇ¥ to EVE. True we will interact and share the same space, but we are separated in game mechanics, factuality and in the majority of our communityGÇÖs. In the US we have one military, but itGÇÖs broken up in three partGÇÖs (Army, Navy, Air force). I see Dust and EVE in this same fashion, but brought together in one universe


IGÇÖm not running to help fix ship balancing or POS in EVE, IGÇÖm running to represent the Players of DUST 514

That would be a surprising sentiment, but I don't doubt that Maverick Conflict Solutions is the Dust based subsidiary of The Maverick Navy. https://gate.eveonline.com/Corporation/The%20Maverick%20Navy. I suppose I might be wrong about that.

I disagree fully on two parts here. First I have played EVE under a few accounts starting back in GÇÖ07 where a death in the family took me away. I came back around GÇÖ09 until the Summer of Rage hit and people started leaving the game due to dissatisfaction. My current start of me participating in EVE is that my laptop currently canGÇÖt support it, but will have a new one come Christmas. So I will be on EVE in one month. But I will always be a DUST Merc.

Second, DUST is much more than some simple GÇ£add onGÇ¥ to EVE. True we will interact and share the same space, but we are separated in game mechanics, factuality and in the majority of our communityGÇÖs. In the US we have one military, but itGÇÖs broken up in three partGÇÖs (Army, Navy, Air force). I see Dust and EVE in this same fashion, but brought together in one universe


IGÇÖm not running to help fix ship balancing or POS in EVE, IGÇÖm running to represent the Players of DUST 514

I'll be running for CSM EVE-side as a DUST representative alongside / against Zion (however you'd like to phrase rivals i guess) but having more than one seat on the CSM will increase our chances of haviung DUSTs voice heard.

The CSM would only need one person covering the Dust mechanics, just as it does one person for each individual field. Hans Jagerblizten was appointed as a CSM solely because his focus was on Faction Warfare mechanics and it got a major revamp just recently...

The CSM does -not- need 12 extra members all focusing on their own personal views of Dust 514 when it's active player-base doesn't even number 10,000 yet. There are more corporations than there are people playing Dust 514 (metaphorically speaking) and there are, apparently, more people running for a CSM position -when the game hasn't even been released yet- then there are people in the actual CSM..

"Each Individual Field" your words Aeon. So a guy for Ship BalancingGǪ So a Guy for Dropsuit, and Vehicle BalancingGǪ A Guy for EVE Faction WarfareGǪ So add a guy for Dust Faction WarfareGǪ

Dust has and will have just as many field equivalents



You Can't see past the Beta so your opinion is already highly flawed. And to me it appears you want all the power to go to eve.

As for uniting the community of Dust, where has this ever happen in EVE?

Apparently you missed the fact that Goonswarm and it's 10,000 members has connections, ties and associations with almost every other alliance in Eve Online... They're all saying the same thing. POSes suck, Faction Warfare needs to be looked at and the Economy as a whole needs a drastic overhaul.

I can see past the Beta, I just don't see it turning out very well. It's irrelevant as you're still avoiding (as you had when I was actually in your corporation) what I am advising you to look at in and of it's entirety: Actually fighting for the issues the Dust 514 community has a whole, which is nigh impossible as they're too sporadic and self-concerned. Take a look at the General Discussion here on the forums and you'll see a hundred thousand different view points.

You're running for CSM, Quickgloves is running for CSM, Cerebral Wolf Jr is running for CSM, Jenza Aranda is running for CSM.

Every single corporate leader is running for CSM. Yet, for some reason, you can't all just sit down and delegate as to who would be the best for the position and step out of the spotlight - rather, you want an entirely new CSM for a game that even on release won't have THAT many features attached to it.

Corporation Battles, Random Matchmaking and Factional Warfare. All of which can be governed, overseen and viewed by -one CSM member-, not an entire line up.

For each "Individual field" as you so aptly noticed (and I'm glad you did so that I can explain in more detail) does not mean Ship Balancing. Ship Balancing is an aspect -all- CSM members can delegate. Wormholes, High Sec, Low Sec, Faction Warfare, Null sec are all areas of which certain CSM members have expertise. There are not that many global features in Dust 514 and there won't be for -at least- another six months.

As previously stated, my vote is for the people that can help Dust 514 in it's initial stages - the people who can grasp the Dust/Eve connection right off the bat, not the people that have the most supporters because they're for the people of Dust 514. This game is not just about you and the FPS community.

EDIT: Right now - if you were a CSM delegate, what would you honestly fight for? Right now?

Pretty simple question to answer there. I'd fight for interaction elements that affect the way DUST fits with EVE Online, PvE Missions (not just Drone Swarms) based upon EVE-like styles of missions though with solo, small group (2-3) Squad-level (4-6) and team-based (7-16) objectives.

I would be fighting for DUST to be considered more than an Add-On to EVE Online. I play both, and the different styles, and outlooks make both games very different, despite occupying the same space as EVE Online server wise and overlapping sphere's of Influence.

And lastly, I would fight for a feature I'd like to see (and so would alot of others) about Player-Owned Planetary Bases and Persistent Defences on battlefield maps. I don't mean the simple 'plug-in' style they want us to use. I want to be able to 'plug-in' a varied design on a district that allows us to set up permanent fortifications. ie. Walls and Gates (with hackable gate house) and dstructable walls. Defencive Batteries placed where we want then within the compund (and around the border). One of the greatest advantages of this game should be the ability to utilise your assets already in place to fight in your favor. Currently Defenders hold no advantage over Attackers as they would in true warfare.

Those points, and more of course, would be what I fight for.


P.S. I thought Quick wasn't running for CSM. I thought he said that no one should vote for him in one of his politcial threads.

EDIT: Right now - if you were a CSM delegate, what would you honestly fight for? Right now?

Firstly, how'd you get to the conclusion that Zion is a slippery guy? You've actually been more negatively trolled than Zion yourself, and almost every post I see from you is negative in some respect... and you think we'd want you representing us? I think not.

Sure you have your supporters likely, as does Zion, as do I, as does Sha Kharn... there are plenty of people who have support from various cliques, corporations, alliances in this game.

Unless we get behind 1 or 2 candidates for this CSM we wont have anyone representing us on the CSM. And since there's not been (to my knowledge) an announcement from CCP that DUST players will get to vote, only those with EVE accounts over 30 days old are even applicable to place votes, or be candidates.

I'd love to say that DUST could vote it's own rep... I want it to, but at this time it's not confirmed whether we will, so we need to focus behind 1 or 2 candidates (aim for 2 as 2 reps will represent better than 1) and get the word out why we would want these to represent us.

Yes, by the way, I'd like to be one of those candidates (stated weeks ago now before many of these CSM discussions started) but the more candidates we have who can make their cases the better opportunity for us to have a representative who shares all or most of the values wanted in this game.

The Black Jackal

Since we're in beta, CSM candidates should be decided on who has put in the highest number of unique tickets into the bug reports. It's a simple metric, and one that would favor the people who are actually trying to help the game reach release rather than the "I'm better than you" chest thumpers and political backstabbers.

DUST should have its own CSM to discuss on how the game should be balanced and new changes, expansions etc etc etc just like in EVE and for DUST//EVE link have both CSMs sit down with CCP

it will not benefit DUST as a standalone game from any internal problems if we only have like 1 rep on the current CSM along with how many other EVE players talk about how whats broken in DUST how it should be balanced etc.

Need 2 CSMs tbqh.
EVE link can be easily discussed with both CSMs and CCP having a sitdown imo

Your a Member of Goon (not that high up) and a troll. If we were voting for Trolls, Id nominate ReG.

With me being "Nice" with goons, I have given respect where respect is given back to me. Nothing more. To say I have no back bone is BS, I have gone toe to toe with Court House (A director of Goon and Manager of the CFC) and never once backed down (like say the Hive Mind has) when he called all of Dust a "bunch of scrubs".

I find your failed smear to be lame at best. It says a lot when another Duster who is running for Dust CSM step's up to defend me (Thanks Black Jackal )

if you were to run and not have all of Goon vote you in... You would lose.

Bottom line you do nothing for this community now, so why should anyone trust you to do anything then? The last Goon to be in the CSM was fired from both the CSM and banned from EVE. Heck you were even fired from writting for theMittani.com (where Marc the editor came on our show "Podside" and stated it and added you were crap).

But hey glad to hear your running and GG on the forum PvP



I'm cool with this idea TBH

Speaking solely as an observer here, Zion Shad lacks an element of knowledge in the way things work in Eve Online. Perhaps because he doesn't play the game or perhaps because he doesn't have enough connection in it but I'm hard pressed to vote for someone who is inexperienced in these matters.

Dust 514 is an addition, an expansion, to Eve Online. It is not a separate entity and as such should be treated as such. To we, the Eve Online community, it's not very practical to vote in someone who only knows the Dust 514 element.

I would sooner vote for Cerebral Wolf Jr or Jenza Aranda as they both have a well rounded ideal as to what both of these games have to offer. I myself would run, but I have no political reach and frankly I'm not a very friendly person when it comes to gameplay changes that I don't feel benefit the game in any way, shape or form besides true core gameplay material.

True, Goonswarm are probably presumptuous assholes. That's fine because how they act has absolutely nothing to do with what this game, its features or the changes made to it need to be. The Mittani may have been removed from the CSM but what he set in motion over the course of the Redemption Trilogy (the three expansions which made drastic fixes to Eve Online) is nothing short of magnificent and I applaud that.

Knowing that they can do right by Eve Online, I know that they can do right by Dust 514. Sure, some of the fixes are sort of shady and strangely coincidental to some of Goonswarm's efforts but let's take a look at the face of the card here: If everyone is using it and everyone is effective, it must be broken. It's just that simple.

That would be a surprising sentiment, but I don't doubt that Maverick Conflict Solutions is the Dust based subsidiary of The Maverick Navy. https://gate.eveonline.com/Corporation/The%20Maverick%20Navy. I suppose I might be wrong about that.

I think nullsec alliances already have enough influence on the CSM without trying to budge their way into Dust, no:?

[quote=Aeon Amadi]

IGÇÖm not running to help fix ship balancing or POS in EVE, IGÇÖm running to represent the Players of DUST 514

What this really is is a power struggle for someone to gain a position of power to serve their own self-absorbed means and until someone actually starts asking the questions (outside of their mundane and archaic corporations) that need answered that is all it ever will be.

^^

Look, another well thought out, well informed post who can see that being on the CSM is as i stated a hell of a lot more than just being involved in the minor topics that you're "assigned" to. You have a hand in everything and thus have to know about everything including the EVE mechanics i mentioned above and how they will filter down into Dust.

Anyone who's talking about the CSM is talking way too prematurely for it. IT'S TOO EARLY AND ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER YEAR.

Even if you idiots put yourself forward as CSM candidates on the EVE side in the coming months to try and get around that you're just going to get ridiculed and laughed at.

Patience is what you need if you want to be on the CSM, if you're just going to try and bully your ways into it before the games even released and anyone has a formal interest in it you're just showing that you're only interested in doing it for personal reasons and in a vein attempt to raise yourself above the rest of the community in an attempt to demand respect and appear better than your average Dust player.

That's not how you gain peoples respect.

I speak my mind, i'm not interested in professionalism, i'm here to have fun not take on another job.

If Dust becomes all about work and not fun at all, i'm doing something very, very, very wrong which is why i've just taken a 6 week break or so.

Dust was becoming too serious for me, i felt the need to step back and take a wee break and come back with a fresh perspective on things, other people could learn from that actually.

As i've said, i've no interest in taking part on anything CSM related at the moment, it's premature and i think anyone who's even considering it right now and idiots with an inflated ego and opinion of themselves as some sort of Console messiah and should take a look in the mirror and a step back to reflect on things for awhile, i'm entitled to an opinion and to voice it however i wish the same as you are. I couldn't care less what people think of me and that's why some people love me and some people hate me here.

I speak my mind, i'm not interested in professionalism, i'm here to have fun not take on another job.

If Dust becomes all about work and not fun at all, i'm doing something very, very, very wrong which is why i've just taken a 6 week break or so.

Dust was becoming too serious for me, i felt the need to step back and take a wee break and come back with a fresh perspective on things, other people could learn from that actually.

As i've said, i've no interest in taking part on anything CSM related at the moment, it's premature and i think anyone who's even considering it right now and idiots with an inflated ego and opinion of themselves as some sort of Console messiah and should take a look in the mirror and a step back to reflect on things for awhile, i'm entitled to an opinion and to voice it however i wish the same as you are. I couldn't care less what people think of me and that's why some people love me and some people hate me here.

Cerebral, it's obvious to anyone reading your comments - even if they have no experience with DUST or EVE - that you know what you're talking about and have weight behind your words, but assertiveness and name calling for the sake of it, that's not speaking your mind, that's hostility. But I understand you don't mean it that way, you're just this way. So in response I want to thank you for your input on this thread, much of what you've said has been informal to me on the situation on not only the Eve side, but how DUST is doing by a view point not of my own.

If people see you as an ******* for speaking facts and opinions, that's cool. But I'll always support open mindedness in my threads.

But back on topic: CSM as a today structure is simply our community attempt at orchestrating a more unified community. It's not for the benefits that come immediately, but that come with time. It's the same idea as this closed Beta, if we're going to eventually have one, then we should prepare, tweak, and recognize. I agree it seems preemptive right now, but I'm all for planning a head before the plan is ever needed.

Back on the topic of Dust and CSM, how about instead of trying to make it so some seats have to be dust players, or create another council, or just let it be, we rename CSM to be the New Eden Council of Interests (NECI), and expand it to have 18 seats, nine of which are capsuleers and nine of which are immortals. Later on we could give it it's own Station with design and rooms which the council could operate out of, instead of a simple forum thread( this would likely come later).

some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted.

Wish me luck!

I think the point here, is that there are quite a few DUST players pushing to have a DUST 514 rep on the next CSM. It's not a matter of waiting to see IF we get one, or falling back and saying we WONT get one, we're pushing TO get one.

From what I understand, most candidates will be running EVE Side anyway on behalf of DUST. I know I am, some others have as much EVE experience as I do, if not more. The main thing is, will DUST Mercs be able to vote as DUST mercs, or do they have to follow the strictures outlined for EVE players (have an ACTIVE EVE online Account for at least 30 days, etc.). To cast a vote.

some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted.

Wish me luck!

some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted.

Wish me luck!

some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted.

Wish me luck!

And running as a Dust rep in EVE online will get you laughed out of the running for the position in the first week, i promise you. You've only got to look at EVE players reactions to Dust to know how little they will take a interest or even support an EVE side position for Dust, the sheer thought that you've got the cheek to even attempt it is laughable.

Until DUST becomes something more than closed-beta vaporware (which has been in development for the better part of 4-5 years) and CCP starts talking to the community about their plans for it beyond some grey area, "The two games will connect!" stuff, I really don't see a point to a "DUST Player" running for CSM. I think it would be interesting to see someone whose primary focus was on a console only game running for the council of a PC only game though. Sure, give it a shot.

TLDR - There are enough DUST bunnies on the CSM (or in contact with the CSM) already, or at least there were until Planetside 2 came out. v0v

P.S. Jenza, you get props from me for your work on the wiki. I was afraid to contribute due to NDA restrictions (wasn't sure where they drew the line about release of information). Have you had any issues regarding that? If you haven't had any, I'll gladly help you in populating the wiki and ease your workload. Good job so far as well.

For the record, Seleene is a CSM member.

You'd be better off voting for me for Sha.

I don't want to run for CSM currently.

you really dont like goons, nameless lol

I wouldn't term it cheek. I'd call it determination to get DUST represented.

Rather than simply slag everyone who says anything about running for CSM, let those of us who want to fight for it, do so. If you don't think such a thing is possible, then back off and leave those of us who think it is possible try.

Or, if you're running a mud-slinging campaign to further your own agenda, then try posting some policies. If that doesn't suit, keep spewing poorly thought out responses and taunts, and making unsubstantiated claims as to your communications with Developers of the DUST 514 and EVE Online Games.

Personally, I have been upfront and honest about WHY I want to run, what some of my policy is toward getting the DUST community represented and what ideas I would want to push.

I see your name all over these forums with little to say about anything that isn't negative, or slander, or unsubstantiated claims over communications you've had and so on. Everyone contributes to the community how they see fit, however negativity has never benefited any community.

P.S. Jenza, you get props from me for your work on the wiki. I was afraid to contribute due to NDA restrictions (wasn't sure where they drew the line about release of information). Have you had any issues regarding that? If you haven't had any, I'll gladly help you in populating the wiki and ease your workload. Good job so far as well.