DUST Search - Dust and CSM

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Zion Shad wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

The CSM would only need one person covering the Dust mechanics, just as it does one person for each individual field. Hans Jagerblizten was appointed as a CSM solely because his focus was on Faction Warfare mechanics and it got a major revamp just recently...

"Each Individual Field" your words Aeon. So a guy for Ship BalancingGÇª So a Guy for Dropsuit, and Vehicle BalancingGÇª A Guy for EVE Faction WarfareGÇª So add a guy for Dust Faction WarfareGÇª

Dust has and will have just as many field equivalents

Aeon Amadi wrote:

The CSM does -not- need 12 extra members all focusing on their own personal views of Dust 514 when it's active player-base doesn't even number 10,000 yet. There are more corporations than there are people playing Dust 514 (metaphorically speaking) and there are, apparently, more people running for a CSM position -when the game hasn't even been released yet- then there are people in the actual CSM..

You Can't see past the Beta so your opinion is already highly flawed. And to me it appears you want all the power to go to eve.

As for uniting the community of Dust, where has this ever happen in EVE?

Apparently you missed the fact that Goonswarm and it's 10,000 members has connections, ties and associations with almost every other alliance in Eve Online... They're all saying the same thing. POSes suck, Faction Warfare needs to be looked at and the Economy as a whole needs a drastic overhaul.

I can see past the Beta, I just don't see it turning out very well. It's irrelevant as you're still avoiding (as you had when I was actually in your corporation) what I am advising you to look at in and of it's entirety: Actually fighting for the issues the Dust 514 community has a whole, which is nigh impossible as they're too sporadic and self-concerned. Take a look at the General Discussion here on the forums and you'll see a hundred thousand different view points.

You're running for CSM, Quickgloves is running for CSM, Cerebral Wolf Jr is running for CSM, Jenza Aranda is running for CSM.

Every single corporate leader is running for CSM. Yet, for some reason, you can't all just sit down and delegate as to who would be the best for the position and step out of the spotlight - rather, you want an entirely new CSM for a game that even on release won't have THAT many features attached to it.

Corporation Battles, Random Matchmaking and Factional Warfare. All of which can be governed, overseen and viewed by -one CSM member-, not an entire line up.

For each "Individual field" as you so aptly noticed (and I'm glad you did so that I can explain in more detail) does not mean Ship Balancing. Ship Balancing is an aspect -all- CSM members can delegate. Wormholes, High Sec, Low Sec, Faction Warfare, Null sec are all areas of which certain CSM members have expertise. There are not that many global features in Dust 514 and there won't be for -at least- another six months.

As previously stated, my vote is for the people that can help Dust 514 in it's initial stages - the people who can grasp the Dust/Eve connection right off the bat, not the people that have the most supporters because they're for the people of Dust 514. This game is not just about you and the FPS community.

EDIT: Right now - if you were a CSM delegate, what would you honestly fight for? Right now?


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The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.11.29 11:20:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone should know my stance on this by now, but I'll wade in all the same. Firstly, I'm hedging for us to have seats on the current CSM. Why? Because then we'll be representing the DUST COmmunity from a platform already well established and listened to by CCP. Giving us equal opportunity to talk to developers. On the other hand, trying to 'muscle in' on what is essentially a 'EVE-only' Club is very tough (unless everyone in DUST beta has an EVE Account over 30 days old and votes for one candidate.) I suggested in my current thread about this very issue that we could form our own council. Elected and unofficial (at fdirst) but we could possibly get endorsement from CCP about making it an Official CPM (Council of Planetary Management.) They'd have to handle the elections, as they'd know who was alts etc, able to limit the voting to 1 vote per account, etc.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.11.29 11:44:00 - [2] - Quote ^^ Agreed Sha Kharn
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.01 02:14:00 - [3] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Why vote? Everyone knows its just gonna be Imperfects on Dust CSM I highly, highly doubt that. CSM is about politics and you guys have zero experience in EVE politics, or at least zero experience at the EVE politics that matter like Nullsec warfare and the large alliances like ours. You guys backing someone with experience would be a good thing but i highly doubt you'd be able to pull it off for at least a couple of years. Tony Calif wrote: ??? Why have a second council just for Dust? Not just have a seat or 2 on the current CSM? 1 universe, 1 war, 1 CSM :P That's why Sha will get my vote if he runs for it. Failing that, Zionshad. Zion's a nice bloke but he's too slippery and not a very honest guy. He says what people want to hear which is good for politics alone if you never plan to actually do anything but eventually he'd have to act and make enemys and he claims to hate us Goons but he's done his fair share of playing nice with us even though he apparently hates us. Either he's got no backbone and will let us do what we want, when we want or he's very, very two faced and long term that does not bode well for him with something like the CSM. You'd be better off voting for me for Sha. Firstly, how'd you get to the conclusion that Zion is a slippery guy? You've actually been more negatively trolled than Zion yourself, and almost every post I see from you is negative in some respect... and you think we'd want you representing us? I think not. Sure you have your supporters likely, as does Zion, as do I, as does Sha Kharn... there are plenty of people who have support from various cliques, corporations, alliances in this game. Unless we get behind 1 or 2 candidates for this CSM we wont have anyone representing us on the CSM. And since there's not been (to my knowledge) an announcement from CCP that DUST players will get to vote, only those with EVE accounts over 30 days old are even applicable to place votes, or be candidates. I'd love to say that DUST could vote it's own rep... I want it to, but at this time it's not confirmed whether we will, so we need to focus behind 1 or 2 candidates (aim for 2 as 2 reps will represent better than 1) and get the word out why we would want these to represent us. Yes, by the way, I'd like to be one of those candidates (stated weeks ago now before many of these CSM discussions started) but the more candidates we have who can make their cases the better opportunity for us to have a representative who shares all or most of the values wanted in this game. The Black Jackal
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.01 04:57:00 - [4] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Speaking solely as an observer here, Zion Shad lacks an element of knowledge in the way things work in Eve Online. Perhaps because he doesn't play the game or perhaps because he doesn't have enough connection in it but I'm hard pressed to vote for someone who is inexperienced in these matters. Dust 514 is an addition, an expansion, to Eve Online. It is not a separate entity and as such should be treated as such. To we, the Eve Online community, it's not very practical to vote in someone who only knows the Dust 514 element. I disagree fully on two parts here. First I have played EVE under a few accounts starting back in GÇÖ07 where a death in the family took me away. I came back around GÇÖ09 until the Summer of Rage hit and people started leaving the game due to dissatisfaction. My current start of me participating in EVE is that my laptop currently canGÇÖt support it, but will have a new one come Christmas. So I will be on EVE in one month. But I will always be a DUST Merc. Second, DUST is much more than some simple GÇ£add onGÇ¥ to EVE. True we will interact and share the same space, but we are separated in game mechanics, factuality and in the majority of our communityGÇÖs. In the US we have one military, but itGÇÖs broken up in three partGÇÖs (Army, Navy, Air force). I see Dust and EVE in this same fashion, but brought together in one universe IGÇÖm not running to help fix ship balancing or POS in EVE, IGÇÖm running to represent the Players of DUST 514 ^^ As above. I am running for the same things, as well as furthering integration, while keeping the two games separate but joined in such a way that each CAN have a major impact on the other if we should choose. I've played EVE for at least 5 years. (Probably about the same sort of time frame as Zion), and have knowlegde of how it works. As well as being in DUSt 514 beta since Replication Build. I'll be running for CSM EVE-side as a DUST representative alongside / against Zion (however you'd like to phrase rivals i guess) but having more than one seat on the CSM will increase our chances of haviung DUSTs voice heard.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.01 07:19:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zion Shad wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: The CSM would only need one person covering the Dust mechanics, just as it does one person for each individual field. Hans Jagerblizten was appointed as a CSM solely because his focus was on Faction Warfare mechanics and it got a major revamp just recently... "Each Individual Field" your words Aeon. So a guy for Ship BalancingGÇª So a Guy for Dropsuit, and Vehicle BalancingGÇª A Guy for EVE Faction WarfareGÇª So add a guy for Dust Faction WarfareGÇª Dust has and will have just as many field equivalents Aeon Amadi wrote: The CSM does -not- need 12 extra members all focusing on their own personal views of Dust 514 when it's active player-base doesn't even number 10,000 yet. There are more corporations than there are people playing Dust 514 (metaphorically speaking) and there are, apparently, more people running for a CSM position -when the game hasn't even been released yet- then there are people in the actual CSM.. You Can't see past the Beta so your opinion is already highly flawed. And to me it appears you want all the power to go to eve. As for uniting the community of Dust, where has this ever happen in EVE? Apparently you missed the fact that Goonswarm and it's 10,000 members has connections, ties and associations with almost every other alliance in Eve Online... They're all saying the same thing. POSes suck, Faction Warfare needs to be looked at and the Economy as a whole needs a drastic overhaul. I can see past the Beta, I just don't see it turning out very well. It's irrelevant as you're still avoiding (as you had when I was actually in your corporation) what I am advising you to look at in and of it's entirety: Actually fighting for the issues the Dust 514 community has a whole, which is nigh impossible as they're too sporadic and self-concerned. Take a look at the General Discussion here on the forums and you'll see a hundred thousand different view points. You're running for CSM, Quickgloves is running for CSM, Cerebral Wolf Jr is running for CSM, Jenza Aranda is running for CSM. Every single corporate leader is running for CSM. Yet, for some reason, you can't all just sit down and delegate as to who would be the best for the position and step out of the spotlight - rather, you want an entirely new CSM for a game that even on release won't have THAT many features attached to it. Corporation Battles, Random Matchmaking and Factional Warfare. All of which can be governed, overseen and viewed by -one CSM member-, not an entire line up. For each "Individual field" as you so aptly noticed (and I'm glad you did so that I can explain in more detail) does not mean Ship Balancing. Ship Balancing is an aspect -all- CSM members can delegate. Wormholes, High Sec, Low Sec, Faction Warfare, Null sec are all areas of which certain CSM members have expertise. There are not that many global features in Dust 514 and there won't be for -at least- another six months. As previously stated, my vote is for the people that can help Dust 514 in it's initial stages - the people who can grasp the Dust/Eve connection right off the bat, not the people that have the most supporters because they're for the people of Dust 514. This game is not just about you and the FPS community. EDIT: Right now - if you were a CSM delegate, what would you honestly fight for? Right now? Pretty simple question to answer there. I'd fight for interaction elements that affect the way DUST fits with EVE Online, PvE Missions (not just Drone Swarms) based upon EVE-like styles of missions though with solo, small group (2-3) Squad-level (4-6) and team-based (7-16) objectives. I would be fighting for DUST to be considered more than an Add-On to EVE Online. I play both, and the different styles, and outlooks make both games very different, despite occupying the same space as EVE Online server wise and overlapping sphere's of Influence. And lastly, I would fight for a feature I'd like to see (and so would alot of others) about Player-Owned Planetary Bases and Persistent Defences on battlefield maps. I don't mean the simple 'plug-in' style they want us to use. I want to be able to 'plug-in' a varied design on a district that allows us to set up permanent fortifications. ie. Walls and Gates (with hackable gate house) and dstructable walls. Defencive Batteries placed where we want then within the compund (and around the border). One of the greatest advantages of this game should be the ability to utilise your assets already in place to fight in your favor. Currently Defenders hold no advantage over Attackers as they would in true warfare. Those points, and more of course, would be what I fight for. P.S. I thought Quick wasn't running for CSM. I thought he said that no one should vote for him in one of his politcial threads.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:25:00 - [6] - Quote @ Cerebral Wolf Jr Sorry to say this, but where in that mess of things did you state your goals IF you ran for CSM on DUSTs behalf. We're fighting to be repressented NOW, not at some future date after the EVE community has been firmly set against us. You are a Goon, and your attitude to me seems you'd represent EVE Goon interests over DUSTs, which means you prioritize EVE Online first, especially that you consider DUST an Add-On. DUST is NOT an add-on. It takes part in the SAME world.. that is the extent of it... To that way of thinking EVE would be superior and dictate terms of DUST. Which isn't what the DUST community wants. The DUST community wants DUST to operate on its own, but be able to impact EVE Online in the overlapping areas of influence. As to your speaking to CMDR Wang and such via E-Mail on mechanics... where's the proof? If you cannot communicate OPENLY through existing channels, you aren't trustworthy. Even more so than the rest of us. Open, transperant commuinication is a requirement of putting forward your point of view, and not simply flaming everyonme else and thinking that by putting them down, you elevate yourself. Give us solid policy, proof of these ' communications' with CMDR Wang, and MAYBE we might take you seriously. The Black Jackal
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.02 05:25:00 - [7] - Quote I think the point here, is that there are quite a few DUST players pushing to have a DUST 514 rep on the next CSM. It's not a matter of waiting to see IF we get one, or falling back and saying we WONT get one, we're pushing TO get one. From what I understand, most candidates will be running EVE Side anyway on behalf of DUST. I know I am, some others have as much EVE experience as I do, if not more. The main thing is, will DUST Mercs be able to vote as DUST mercs, or do they have to follow the strictures outlined for EVE players (have an ACTIVE EVE online Account for at least 30 days, etc.). To cast a vote.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.02 06:03:00 - [8] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted. Wish me luck! Wish you luck, Jenza. Even though you're one of my Rivals now. o7 and god speed.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 302	Posted - 2012.12.03 05:34:00 - [9] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: And running as a Dust rep in EVE online will get you laughed out of the running for the position in the first week, i promise you. You've only got to look at EVE players reactions to Dust to know how little they will take a interest or even support an EVE side position for Dust, the sheer thought that you've got the cheek to even attempt it is laughable. I wouldn't term it cheek. I'd call it determination to get DUST represented. Rather than simply slag everyone who says anything about running for CSM, let those of us who want to fight for it, do so. If you don't think such a thing is possible, then back off and leave those of us who think it is possible try. Or, if you're running a mud-slinging campaign to further your own agenda, then try posting some policies. If that doesn't suit, keep spewing poorly thought out responses and taunts, and making unsubstantiated claims as to your communications with Developers of the DUST 514 and EVE Online Games. Personally, I have been upfront and honest about WHY I want to run, what some of my policy is toward getting the DUST community represented and what ideas I would want to push. I see your name all over these forums with little to say about anything that isn't negative, or slander, or unsubstantiated claims over communications you've had and so on. Everyone contributes to the community how they see fit, however negativity has never benefited any community. P.S. Jenza, you get props from me for your work on the wiki. I was afraid to contribute due to NDA restrictions (wasn't sure where they drew the line about release of information). Have you had any issues regarding that? If you haven't had any, I'll gladly help you in populating the wiki and ease your workload. Good job so far as well.