DUST Search - Dust and CSM

SoTa PoP wrote:

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

I speak my mind, i'm not interested in professionalism, i'm here to have fun not take on another job.

If Dust becomes all about work and not fun at all, i'm doing something very, very, very wrong which is why i've just taken a 6 week break or so.

Dust was becoming too serious for me, i felt the need to step back and take a wee break and come back with a fresh perspective on things, other people could learn from that actually.

As i've said, i've no interest in taking part on anything CSM related at the moment, it's premature and i think anyone who's even considering it right now and idiots with an inflated ego and opinion of themselves as some sort of Console messiah and should take a look in the mirror and a step back to reflect on things for awhile, i'm entitled to an opinion and to voice it however i wish the same as you are. I couldn't care less what people think of me and that's why some people love me and some people hate me here.

Cerebral, it's obvious to anyone reading your comments - even if they have no experience with DUST or EVE - that you know what you're talking about and have weight behind your words, but assertiveness and name calling for the sake of it, that's not speaking your mind, that's hostility. But I understand you don't mean it that way, you're just this way. So in response I want to thank you for your input on this thread, much of what you've said has been informal to me on the situation on not only the Eve side, but how DUST is doing by a view point not of my own.

If people see you as an ******* for speaking facts and opinions, that's cool. But I'll always support open mindedness in my threads.

But back on topic: CSM as a today structure is simply our community attempt at orchestrating a more unified community. It's not for the benefits that come immediately, but that come with time. It's the same idea as this closed Beta, if we're going to eventually have one, then we should prepare, tweak, and recognize. I agree it seems preemptive right now, but I'm all for planning a head before the plan is ever needed.


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Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:12:00 - [1] - Quote I've not read the whole thread yet, i got about 2 sentences in and realised the first thing i need to point out is that Dust WILL NOT have it's own CSM. It will have a single, or several elected people to sit ON the current CSM.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:23:00 - [2] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Why vote? Everyone knows its just gonna be Imperfects on Dust CSM I highly, highly doubt that. CSM is about politics and you guys have zero experience in EVE politics, or at least zero experience at the EVE politics that matter like Nullsec warfare and the large alliances like ours. You guys backing someone with experience would be a good thing but i highly doubt you'd be able to pull it off for at least a couple of years. Tony Calif wrote: ??? Why have a second council just for Dust? Not just have a seat or 2 on the current CSM? 1 universe, 1 war, 1 CSM :P That's why Sha will get my vote if he runs for it. Failing that, Zionshad. Zion's a nice bloke but he's too slippery and not a very honest guy. He says what people want to hear which is good for politics alone if you never plan to actually do anything but eventually he'd have to act and make enemys and he claims to hate us Goons but he's done his fair share of playing nice with us even though he apparently hates us. Either he's got no backbone and will let us do what we want, when we want or he's very, very two faced and long term that does not bode well for him with something like the CSM. You'd be better off voting for me for Sha.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: Firstly, how'd you get to the conclusion that Zion is a slippery guy? You've actually been more negatively trolled than Zion yourself, and almost every post I see from you is negative in some respect... and you think we'd want you representing us? I think not. Sure you have your supporters likely, as does Zion, as do I, as does Sha Kharn... there are plenty of people who have support from various cliques, corporations, alliances in this game. Unless we get behind 1 or 2 candidates for this CSM we wont have anyone representing us on the CSM. And since there's not been (to my knowledge) an announcement from CCP that DUST players will get to vote, only those with EVE accounts over 30 days old are even applicable to place votes, or be candidates. I'd love to say that DUST could vote it's own rep... I want it to, but at this time it's not confirmed whether we will, so we need to focus behind 1 or 2 candidates (aim for 2 as 2 reps will represent better than 1) and get the word out why we would want these to represent us. Yes, by the way, I'd like to be one of those candidates (stated weeks ago now before many of these CSM discussions started) but the more candidates we have who can make their cases the better opportunity for us to have a representative who shares all or most of the values wanted in this game. The Black Jackal I've spoke with ZionShad several times via skype, listened to his podcasts etc and he's contradicted himself on multiple different occasions with he's said on the forums/podcasts and what he's said in private to myself and other people, as for why you or anyone would want me on the CSM is a moot point, if we goons decide it what's we want we have about 10k votes at our disposal to make sure it happens, that's more that the entire Dust player base right now and probably post launch for quite some time. It's also worth noting that Sha Kahn and us Goons are already in bed together, along with Test. Its also worth noting that as per my conversations with guys in CCP Dust won't see CSM support on its own till next year, there's too much to do and too little time for it to be considered for this coming year, which again means there's likely to be at least 2 goons on the council just from EVE players and possibly another one from TEST/HBC. Not to mention there's several goons working at CCP as everyone knows, there's also a couple on the Dust team.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:02:00 - [4] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Since we're in beta, CSM candidates should be decided on who has put in the highest number of unique tickets into the bug reports. It's a simple metric, and one that would favor the people who are actually trying to help the game reach release rather than the "I'm better than you" chest thumpers and political backstabbers. The CSM is more about politics and game improvement than bug hunting. You're clearly missing the point of the CSM.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:03:00 - [5] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: DUST should have its own CSM to discuss on how the game should be balanced and new changes, expansions etc etc etc just like in EVE and for DUST//EVE link have both CSMs sit down with CCP it will not benefit DUST as a standalone game from any internal problems if we only have like 1 rep on the current CSM along with how many other EVE players talk about how whats broken in DUST how it should be balanced etc. Need 2 CSMs tbqh. EVE link can be easily discussed with both CSMs and CCP having a sitdown imo Dust is NOT a standalone game, it's an add on to EVE and as such i will bet 1 billion ISK that the CSM is merged and run together, there will NOT be 2 individual CSM's, just think from Cost alone in flights to Iceland, CCP won't pay that much out. Think logically at least.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:07:00 - [6] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Zion's a nice bloke but he's too slippery and not a very honest guy. He says what people want to hear which is good for politics alone if you never plan to actually do anything but eventually he'd have to act and make enemys and he claims to hate us Goons but he's done his fair share of playing nice with us even though he apparently hates us. Either he's got no backbone and will let us do what we want, when we want or he's very, very two faced and long term that does not bode well for him with something like the CSM. You'd be better off voting for me for Sha. Your a Member of Goon (not that high up) and a troll. If we were voting for Trolls, Id nominate ReG. With me being "Nice" with goons, I have given respect where respect is given back to me. Nothing more. To say I have no back bone is BS, I have gone toe to toe with Court House (A director of Goon and Manager of the CFC) and never once backed down (like say the Hive Mind has) when he called all of Dust a "bunch of scrubs". I find your failed smear to be lame at best. It says a lot when another Duster who is running for Dust CSM step's up to defend me (Thanks Black Jackal ) if you were to run and not have all of Goon vote you in... You would lose. Bottom line you do nothing for this community now, so why should anyone trust you to do anything then? The last Goon to be in the CSM was fired from both the CSM and banned from EVE. Heck you were even fired from writting for theMittani.com (where Marc the editor came on our show "Podside" and stated it and added you were crap). But hey glad to hear your running and GG on the forum PvP Quote: ...or several elected people to sit ON the current CSM. I'm cool with this idea TBH I've not confirmed i'd want to run for CSM in the first place, but either way i'd get a much better result than you, we both know you're manipulative and have lied multiple times to myself and other people on IRC. Not that i really give a ****, i just want people to know exactly who you are prior. There's not going to be a CSM for at least 12 months. How do you know i've done nothing for this community? What have you done other than a Podcast which is just veiled political propaganda at best anyway. I've done plenty dust related for MY community and you've no idea exactly what i have and have not done. You've not seen the emails sent between myself and CmdrWang for example and the discussions we've had on specific game mechanics.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:13:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zion Shad wrote: Bottom line you do nothing for this community now, so why should anyone trust you to do anything then? The last Goon to be in the CSM was fired from both the CSM and banned from EVE. Heck you were even fired from writting for theMittani.com (where Marc the editor came on our show "Podside" and stated it and added you were crap). But hey glad to hear your running and GG on the forum PvP Speaking solely as an observer here, Zion Shad lacks an element of knowledge in the way things work in Eve Online. Perhaps because he doesn't play the game or perhaps because he doesn't have enough connection in it but I'm hard pressed to vote for someone who is inexperienced in these matters. Dust 514 is an addition, an expansion, to Eve Online. It is not a separate entity and as such should be treated as such. To we, the Eve Online community, it's not very practical to vote in someone who only knows the Dust 514 element. I would sooner vote for Cerebral Wolf Jr or Jenza Aranda as they both have a well rounded ideal as to what both of these games have to offer. I myself would run, but I have no political reach and frankly I'm not a very friendly person when it comes to gameplay changes that I don't feel benefit the game in any way, shape or form besides true core gameplay material. True, Goonswarm are probably presumptuous assholes. That's fine because how they act has absolutely nothing to do with what this game, its features or the changes made to it need to be. The Mittani may have been removed from the CSM but what he set in motion over the course of the Redemption Trilogy (the three expansions which made drastic fixes to Eve Online) is nothing short of magnificent and I applaud that. Knowing that they can do right by Eve Online, I know that they can do right by Dust 514. Sure, some of the fixes are sort of shady and strangely coincidental to some of Goonswarm's efforts but let's take a look at the face of the card here: If everyone is using it and everyone is effective, it must be broken. It's just that simple. Thanks for the vote of confidence but i think it's way too early to even be talking about CSM spots based on what i know is going on in the background. I'd say Jenza is a very good choice though, she knows her stuff, I've spoken with her on more than one occasion and she's got a very good handle on things and she speaks her mind and does not **** about with her opinions or changing her story/position on things depending on who she's talking to at the time like ZionShad does. She'd be a very good choice for CSM. Goons are pretentious at all, people get the wrong opinion because they see our outside persona, the characters that we play as etc, they don't see what goes on internally and i'd never, ever play any game at all with anyone other than goons since joining them in 2008. They are the best community i've ever been a part of.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Words. That would be a surprising sentiment, but I don't doubt that Maverick Conflict Solutions is the Dust based subsidiary of The Maverick Navy. https://gate.eveonline.com/Corporation/The%20Maverick%20Navy. I suppose I might be wrong about that. I think nullsec alliances already have enough influence on the CSM without trying to budge their way into Dust, no:? Don't matter that we have enough influence on the CSM via Nullsec, we are a part of Dust and will always be and that will also give us more influence and with the way the CSM works we'll need separate people on there to cover Dust issues alone, the CSM is a BIG job to take on, more than some of these clowns on these forums realise.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:19:00 - [9] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: [quote=Aeon Amadi] IGÇÖm not running to help fix ship balancing or POS in EVE, IGÇÖm running to represent the Players of DUST 514 CSM members all have to talk about every topic and make decisions on things like POS rebalancing and ships etc, if you think you can just sit on the CSM and only talk about Dust you're an idiot. You have to consider how making a small change to a destroyer will see more people flying that ship and how having more people in destroyers will effect OB's in Dust. You have to look at the whole picture and you can't do that if all you know is Dust or all you care about is Dust. You seriously think CCP will pay for a flight and hotel to Iceland for you for a weekend just so you can sit there in a room and comment on 2-3 Dust bullet points over the course of the meeting that takes place over 2-3 days.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:24:00 - [10] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: What this really is is a power struggle for someone to gain a position of power to serve their own self-absorbed means and until someone actually starts asking the questions (outside of their mundane and archaic corporations) that need answered that is all it ever will be. Thats very well said, i'm liking you more and more. At least you know what you're talking about.

Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:28:00 - [11] - Quote I don't want to run for CSM currently, it's not going to happen till at least the start of 2014 and yes id suppost Goonwaffe's interests, and also HBC's interests but thats not to mean i can't support Dust's interests either, Mittens did so just fine, Vilerat did so just fine, Darius Johnson did so just fine. It's not as black and white as you're trying to make out.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:22:00 - [12] - Quote ^^ Look, another well thought out, well informed post who can see that being on the CSM is as i stated a hell of a lot more than just being involved in the minor topics that you're "assigned" to. You have a hand in everything and thus have to know about everything including the EVE mechanics i mentioned above and how they will filter down into Dust. Anyone who's talking about the CSM is talking way too prematurely for it. IT'S TOO EARLY AND ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER YEAR. Even if you idiots put yourself forward as CSM candidates on the EVE side in the coming months to try and get around that you're just going to get ridiculed and laughed at. Patience is what you need if you want to be on the CSM, if you're just going to try and bully your ways into it before the games even released and anyone has a formal interest in it you're just showing that you're only interested in doing it for personal reasons and in a vein attempt to raise yourself above the rest of the community in an attempt to demand respect and appear better than your average Dust player. That's not how you gain peoples respect.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:37:00 - [13] - Quote I speak my mind, i'm not interested in professionalism, i'm here to have fun not take on another job. If Dust becomes all about work and not fun at all, i'm doing something very, very, very wrong which is why i've just taken a 6 week break or so. Dust was becoming too serious for me, i felt the need to step back and take a wee break and come back with a fresh perspective on things, other people could learn from that actually. As i've said, i've no interest in taking part on anything CSM related at the moment, it's premature and i think anyone who's even considering it right now and idiots with an inflated ego and opinion of themselves as some sort of Console messiah and should take a look in the mirror and a step back to reflect on things for awhile, i'm entitled to an opinion and to voice it however i wish the same as you are. I couldn't care less what people think of me and that's why some people love me and some people hate me here.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:56:00 - [14] - Quote We also still give Mittens a good ribbing about when he got ejected from the CSM too, hardly professional but it's all about fun at the end of the day and some people are taking Dust way too seriously already, those people remind me of BoB and their eliteism and we all know what happened to those guys. Sir Molle's actually playing again now as part of the HBC which is Blue to us ironically enough. @ZionShad, i'm sharing anything specific with you, i don't trust you, i've seen you go back on your word and use it against people far too many times for me to let you use something against me. Funny how since i've called you out about being a 2 faced slippery little eel that you've stopped being nice and friendly to me though eh? Should i share our Skype conversations or emails that we've had where you've essentially licked my arse to get what you wanted at that specific point in time and then compare that to what you've said to other people and allow then allow them to make up their own minds?.. Dont forget Shad, i may upset a lot of people on my way, but i've never lied or let anyone down and that says a lot about me. You'd be better off just accepting my opinion than calling me out on it
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 01:00:00 - [15] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I speak my mind, i'm not interested in professionalism, i'm here to have fun not take on another job. If Dust becomes all about work and not fun at all, i'm doing something very, very, very wrong which is why i've just taken a 6 week break or so. Dust was becoming too serious for me, i felt the need to step back and take a wee break and come back with a fresh perspective on things, other people could learn from that actually. As i've said, i've no interest in taking part on anything CSM related at the moment, it's premature and i think anyone who's even considering it right now and idiots with an inflated ego and opinion of themselves as some sort of Console messiah and should take a look in the mirror and a step back to reflect on things for awhile, i'm entitled to an opinion and to voice it however i wish the same as you are. I couldn't care less what people think of me and that's why some people love me and some people hate me here. Cerebral, it's obvious to anyone reading your comments - even if they have no experience with DUST or EVE - that you know what you're talking about and have weight behind your words, but assertiveness and name calling for the sake of it, that's not speaking your mind, that's hostility. But I understand you don't mean it that way, you're just this way. So in response I want to thank you for your input on this thread, much of what you've said has been informal to me on the situation on not only the Eve side, but how DUST is doing by a view point not of my own. If people see you as an ***** for speaking facts and opinions, that's cool. But I'll always support open mindedness in my threads. But back on topic: CSM as a today structure is simply our community attempt at orchestrating a more unified community. It's not for the benefits that come immediately, but that come with time. It's the same idea as this closed Beta, if we're going to eventually have one, then we should prepare, tweak, and recognize. I agree it seems preemptive right now, but I'm all for planning a head before the plan is ever needed. You make some good points, planning for it and expecting it are all great things to do i think as we all know it's going to happen, just not the exact details of how it's going to happen but when we have people talking in this very thread about starting to campaign for the CSM right now it just makes them look too eager and power hungry for it, like they are desperate for it rather than actually wanting to help the community. People fail to realise that you still do a lot for this community without even being a member of the CSM, it's not like the CSM is the only way to officially support the community, **, as much as i loath the lies that come from the Dust mercs website they are still supporting the community and i respect them doing that, i just don't like that they attempt to hide behind a lie about who they are, take our website for example, TheMittani.com revels in its name and what it's about and who's behind the site and we get so much more respect from othersites because of that very reason. I know for a fact i'd hold a lot more respect for many people here and their agendas if they happened to be honest about it.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 03:20:00 - [16] - Quote They don't need a station or anything like that, it takes place in real life at CCP's HQ in iceland and over skype meetings weekly. It's not an in game thing, it's a serious game design and decision making process. Renaming it would be pointless too, CSM works fine, even with Dust players on the council.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 03:31:00 - [17] - Quote Initially i expected 2 seats personally but 3 would make a lot of sense, that way there will always be a majority vote on Dust related matters if one disagrees with the other for example and it's something the other CSM members have little knowledge about or whatever.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:10:00 - [18] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: I think the point here, is that there are quite a few DUST players pushing to have a DUST 514 rep on the next CSM. It's not a matter of waiting to see IF we get one, or falling back and saying we WONT get one, we're pushing TO get one. From what I understand, most candidates will be running EVE Side anyway on behalf of DUST. I know I am, some others have as much EVE experience as I do, if not more. The main thing is, will DUST Mercs be able to vote as DUST mercs, or do they have to follow the strictures outlined for EVE players (have an ACTIVE EVE online Account for at least 30 days, etc.). To cast a vote. And running as a Dust rep in EVE online will get you laughed out of the running for the position in the first week, i promise you. You've only got to look at EVE players reactions to Dust to know how little they will take a interest or even support an EVE side position for Dust, the sheer thought that you've got the cheek to even attempt it is laughable. jenza aranda wrote: some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted. Wish me luck! You're probably the only person who's suggested running for CSM that i'd consider a genuine candidate, you've not got involved with any of the bullshit posturing etc that i've seen and seem like the the one of the best people for the jobs. jenza aranda wrote: some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted. Wish me luck! jenza aranda wrote: some of you allready know but just mentioning again, I intend to run for a position on CSM if a dust position appears, even if i dont get in i still intend to volunteer for various eve like things for dust if it comes up, I allready am working solo to build up the dust 514 wikia, and also have some things planned for when the nda is lifted. Wish me luck! You're the only person i'd support as you've not shown it's just something you want to use as a badge to support your own agenda, i know from talking to you on skype and IRC that you know what you're talking about more than the other clowns but i do still think you'd be jumping the gun if you intended to run in the next set of elections. As for you Aeon, stop making sense in your posts, that's not allowed on this forum. I'm starting to like your posting.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 18:29:00 - [19] - Quote It makes a lot of sense, i've recently attempted to start a conversation with Two Step about getting the Dust community involved in the EVE/Dust links rather than just leaving the discussions on the EVE forums. Feel free to poke anyone you know about it too because it's all in our own interests.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.03 04:33:00 - [20] - Quote Thanks Jenza, i appreciate it.