No one on the team can even be a part of the double SP weekend because Caeli, Tiel and Noc take literally all of the kills.

We finally took out the drop ship if doom took the whole match.

I don't blame you guys for abusing a broken system, but you defeat the whole purpose of the beta by doing it. We can't test if we can't play.

Everyone who plays the game didn't pay $20 for a beta that we can't be a part of...

Skill up with a forge. They can 2 hit kill my 4200 shield myron. Or, wait for the dropship to camp a spot and lay in the swarms. They're not broken, you just have to work as a team to take them down, which is the way it should be. If it takes 2-3 guys to make an effective dropship then it should take 2-3 guys working together to knock it down.

Skill up with a forge. They can 2 hit kill my 4200 shield myron. Or, wait for the dropship to camp a spot and lay in the swarms. They're not broken, you just have to work as a team to take them down, which is the way it should be. If it takes 2-3 guys to make an effective dropship then it should take 2-3 guys working together to knock it down.

I disagree. Yes he is a part of my corportation, BUT he is pointing out a huge flaw (as are others in dropships) of the current system.

Just as tanks were OP in the previous build and people spammed them to prove a point. I was one of the ones "whining" about the tanks when it happened. I ***** about the pilots in the sky as well in squad. But I understand them going 60-0 serves a logistical purpose of which I hope CCP will take notice and fix the issue.

Swarms and turrets are broken, but not as broken as the maps.

People 'spammed' them to win. Tanks still have the same basic flaw they had in previous build. They are still the determining factor in any matches they are put in - given their pilots have some sense

This is why I said put a limit to how often someone can call in a drop ship. If it gets blwon up you shouldn't be able to call another one down. There should be at least a 3 minute wait. Also lose the rocket launchers on the tanks and dropships. Whats the point in using a gun when you have so many 1 shot death machines out there?

This is why I said put a limit to how often someone can call in a drop ship. If it gets blwon up you shouldn't be able to call another one down. There should be at least a 3 minute wait. Also lose the rocket launchers on the tanks and dropships. Whats the point in using a gun when you have so many 1 shot death machines out there?

Just nerf Dropships.

Let's think outside the box a bit. Instead of nerfing everything to the barren depths of hell, let's strengthen Swarms.

I find it quite ridiculous that Swarms can not catch up to a Dropship.

Nobody would make it. It does not serve it's purpose.

I agree. the only issue is that when you have friendly ds up in air i will just hunt forge gunners.

If other team has drop ship(s) bringing in a forge is expensive and normally I get killed by reds on the ground not the drop ships.

shooting a forge is a dead give away and I get popped pretty quick. I have tried calling LAVs but that just gives away my local. Running across a map in a heavy is pointless too.

so yes the mechanic is there to take down dropships with forge guns but in practice there is a high rate of failure. That can't be denied.

Lol idiots blaming the swarms. Blaming the dropships. Not understanding the game at all.

It's the maps!

I could have a map that is [kitten]ing flat and I would still not be able to hit a dropship.

Lol idiots blaming the swarms. Blaming the dropships. Not understanding the game at all.

It's the maps!

AGREED!!
Its the kitten MAPS that one shot forge gunners and not! the poor OP dropships that must be protected from anything that can lockon and kill them.

Its the MAPS that let you go 100 and 0 and not the INSTAKILL turrets on the OP dropships.
Its the MAPS that let you just say MAP!! and a few seconds later you are 100 and 0 with huge SP and ISK gains.!!

Hmmm let me try that!
MAP!!
Nothing!!
So whats the secret to saying MAP!! and getting 100 kills and ZERO deaths??

I think we should go back a few builds when AR's were able to take out tanks and dropships... but thats just me.

Clearly this is hard to understand for you, but if the maps weren't 100% open then it wouldn't matter how powerful vehicles and turrets were, since infantry would have a role by necessity where the vehicles couldn't reach.

Clearly this is hard to understand for you, but if the maps weren't 100% open then it wouldn't matter how powerful vehicles and turrets were, since infantry would have a role by necessity where the vehicles couldn't reach.

Skill up with a forge. They can 2 hit kill my 4200 shield myron. Or, wait for the dropship to camp a spot and lay in the swarms. They're not broken, you just have to work as a team to take them down, which is the way it should be. If it takes 2-3 guys to make an effective dropship then it should take 2-3 guys working together to knock it down.

Let's improve the maps, and the Swarms!

I think that is a good compromise.

Dropships I try to stay away from, tanks I actively run too... The difference is night and day. As infantry only, I can easily coordinate and take out tanks with my AV (whether it be grenades or swarms). Dropships are different right now in that they require a certain AV spec in order to kill them (Forge guns).

Dropships cant be killed with AV grenades (altho Ive hit a few) and atm rarely killed with Swarms (tried this as well) if the pilot is any good. The only thing that seems to have fighting chance is a fully speccd Forge Gunner. IMHO

Yes maps with a more inclosed close-quarters area where infantry can battle it out.

Also I've suggested before the othe turrets are hard to track their paths and the feel of them seem weak. Give me a mini-gun with greater range and have it tear threw infantry, and railguns that actually seem to do damage and also feel cooler than a pew pew feel.

Then there aare the useless swarms and the crazy bucking that they cause your shield DS to do. The rocking from swarms needs to be toned down but not removed, and there should be DIFFERENT types of swarm launchers. Everything to tank busters, dropship droppers, to anti infantry. Variety is the spice of life!

Not true. It takes approximately 3 AV nades and a clip from an SMG. I know. I've done it. And yes, it was in the air trying to kill me at the time.

Lol idiots blaming the swarms. Blaming the dropships. Not understanding the game at all.

It's the maps!

You forgot the main ingredient in that kill dropship formula:

99% IDIOT Dropship pilot.
1% 3 AV nades and finish with a sprinkle of SMG bullets for toasty dropship.

Dropships are DUST's versions of the COD AC-130

Very true. I was a sniping and he decided to sit within range. My point is that it doesn't take a lot of damage, you just have to get the damage on the target. Anyone can kill a DS.

I would tend to agree with this. I think the problem is that your team communicated so poorly that they got red lined. Had you not gotten red lined, then the DS wouldn't have done so well. When you see a DS on the field, or a tank for that matter, your squad needs to resupply into AV fits and get them off the field. Done and done. Zion has no problems with this - see the results of our matches this past weekend in the tournament where several tanks and DS were killed in the same match.

Just hopped in another match with the same three guys. No one on the team can even be a part of the double SP weekend because Caeli, Tiel and Noc take literally all of the kills.

This is probably the first time I've ever wanted to betray a team mate...

Except AC-130's do not last for eternity.

time to invest in a militia dropship and kamakaze these assholes.

This is probably the first time I've ever wanted to betray a team mate...

I'm actually writing in the middle of the match because there is nothing to do. The fact that anyone could determine the match because of one vehicle is absurd. There was no room for the "use a forge and get good argument". The enemy was getting sniped by missiles as soon as they dropped out of the MCC. This was all on MY TEAM and it was ridiculous! No one but Noc, Caeli and Tiel got to play. They are at a collective 121 kills and no deaths, with 15000 WP between the three of them.

CCP, I haven't ever directly complained to you guys, but this is too far. The way vehicles can be abused now, only the people who skill into them will ever get to play. It's the fault of the system and mechanics, not the players who exploited them.

122 - 0 now...

If you run dedicated squads/corp. battles, yes it's easy to tell all to switch AV. But if you're running solo in a pub match, I wouldn't trust them to hack a terminal they are standing on (seen it). Hard to organize truly effective AV if in random pubs solo.

What happens when two freindly dropships collide into eachother repeatedly?

I'm sure ccp got the picture by now that swarms are broken. As far as high kill streaks, a pilot has to survive with ship at least 4-5 games to even pay for our protoships. 95% of swarms I see are militia, so even if they introduce skills to speed them up, there is always going to be complaints that ds are op because people are not on the same level.

+1 for more maps with cover, especially at spawns.

I don't blame you guys for abusing a broken system, but you defeat the whole purpose of the beta by doing it. We can't test if we can't play.

Everyone who plays the game didn't pay $20 for a beta that we can't be a part of...

I'm actually writing in the middle of the match because there is nothing to do. The fact that anyone could determine the match because of one vehicle is absurd. There was no room for the "use a forge and get good argument". The enemy was getting sniped by missiles as soon as they dropped out of the MCC. This was all on MY TEAM and it was ridiculous! No one but Noc, Caeli and Tiel got to play. They are at a collective 121 kills and no deaths, with 15000 WP between the three of them.

CCP, I haven't ever directly complained to you guys, but this is too far. The way vehicles can be abused now, only the people who skill into them will ever get to play. It's the fault of the system and mechanics, not the players who exploited them.

122 - 0 now...

How about NOT spawning on the MCC? Just a thought...

The rocking from swarms needs to be toned down but not removed, and there should be DIFFERENT types of swarm launchers. Everything to tank busters, dropship droppers, to anti infantry. Variety is the spice of life!

. . . instead of nerf the vehicles replace the basic swarm launcher skill buff with a velocity increase . . .

Give swarms more balancing points than just missile count and damage. Give different swarms different flight paths, or it may be necessary to program the swarms to have different flight paths depending on what they are shooting at. That way CCP can tweak swarms against air targets while not screwing ground vehicles and vice versa. Anyone can carry a swarm and that is a huge difference when compared to something like a forge. Make it to where skills are necessary to make swarms shine, but when skilled and used properly make them shine bright.

Personally I would also love the option of allowing dropships to not equip weapons and implement some way of getting SP form transport actions, friendly spawns, etc.

I mean I guess that adding more cover COULD help. However even that wouldn't be perfect. Splash damage bleeds through cover atm (The only reason tanks can camp the MCC). What Noc is passing over is that there wasn't any chance to use cover in the first place. He called in his dropship and got it in the air within the first two minutes of the map. He hovered over the red line and his team blasted people just as they hit the ground from the MCC. When it came to the three objective map (The name is escaping me) I watched him float his Dropship behind our red line so he could watch the swarms explode harmlessly in front of of him (or her. I just don't know). Unless infantry should be covered from the second they hit the ground, changing the map to cater to them will still be ineffective. There have to be places without open ground to give the infantry ground game some dynamic.

Furthermore, the idea that a change in the map would change or remove the ability of a single dropship to dictate a match is bizarre to me. Maybe it could work, but if the fix is as simple as that I would think people would have started hiding behind cover and would have started killing dropships. This still hasn't happened. Even with the little cover people have, DS can out pilot whatever is thrown at them.

You are also right that people will complain. That's okay. People always complain. There is merit to arguing "You have to skill into X before you can complain about it". However. The odds that Dropships are killing people who HAVE skilled heavily into AV go up with every kill made. Out of the 122 that I watched yesterday I would have to assume at least one had a good av fit.

Adding more cover doesn't fix the issue. It cures a symptom, not the disease. Dropships have unlimited ammo, the highest mobility anything in dust CAN have and the most accurate weapons - even more accurate than tank missile launchers due to the vantage Dropships can get.

An exposed spawn sounds like a map problem.

Getting redlined sounds like either a match problem (starting unbalanced), or just very unbalanced teams. I've been on both sides of each.

All the maps are >90% exposed, hence the huge balance complaints. Unfortunately, nerfing stuff to hell just removes options and depth without fixing the problem.

it seems people don't want depth. either they want tanks to be impenetrable, vehicles to not exist, proto suits to be immortal to anything but prototype weapons.

the list goes on and on. honestly the skill with swarms is ineffective. if they increased the speed with either by the level of the gun or by the level of the skill it would be effective.

After reading thread upon thread about swarms, I think that's increasing swarm launcher speed is the LAST thing we should do. DS fly in circles because they don't have any other way to really dodge swarms. Increasing swarm speed will remove DS from the game.