DUST Search - Imperfects went 85-0 (Still couting) on my team with Dropship. We need to fix this

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Brush Master wrote:

I'm sure ccp got the picture by now that swarms are broken. As far as high kill streaks, a pilot has to survive with ship at least 4-5 games to even pay for our protoships. 95% of swarms I see are militia, so even if they introduce skills to speed them up, there is always going to be complaints that ds are op because people are not on the same level.

+1 for more maps with cover, especially at spawns.

I mean I guess that adding more cover COULD help. However even that wouldn't be perfect. Splash damage bleeds through cover atm (The only reason tanks can camp the MCC). What Noc is passing over is that there wasn't any chance to use cover in the first place. He called in his dropship and got it in the air within the first two minutes of the map. He hovered over the red line and his team blasted people just as they hit the ground from the MCC. When it came to the three objective map (The name is escaping me) I watched him float his Dropship behind our red line so he could watch the swarms explode harmlessly in front of of him (or her. I just don't know). Unless infantry should be covered from the second they hit the ground, changing the map to cater to them will still be ineffective. There have to be places without open ground to give the infantry ground game some dynamic.

Furthermore, the idea that a change in the map would change or remove the ability of a single dropship to dictate a match is bizarre to me. Maybe it could work, but if the fix is as simple as that I would think people would have started hiding behind cover and would have started killing dropships. This still hasn't happened. Even with the little cover people have, DS can out pilot whatever is thrown at them.

You are also right that people will complain. That's okay. People always complain. There is merit to arguing "You have to skill into X before you can complain about it". However. The odds that Dropships are killing people who HAVE skilled heavily into AV go up with every kill made. Out of the 122 that I watched yesterday I would have to assume at least one had a good av fit.

Adding more cover doesn't fix the issue. It cures a symptom, not the disease. Dropships have unlimited ammo, the highest mobility anything in dust CAN have and the most accurate weapons - even more accurate than tank missile launchers due to the vantage Dropships can get.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
xjumpman23 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 262	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:32:00 - [61] - Quote can we get a portable AA turret like in BF3 that kills air support and mutilates infantry please.
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:33:00 - [62] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: This is probably the first time I've ever wanted to betray a team mate... That's the first time you've ever wanted to TK? You must be new here.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:41:00 - [63] - Quote The turrets need fixing, that's all. CCP really should have realised this when they decided large missile turrets shouldn't be available in a militia variant. Dropships wouldn't be anywhere near as devastating with either of the other turret types. They still need some work r.e. swarm evasion, but it's clear that rockets are the consistent source of OP complaints with all types of vehicle.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:49:00 - [64] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I'm actually writing in the middle of the match because there is nothing to do. The fact that anyone could determine the match because of one vehicle is absurd. There was no room for the "use a forge and get good argument". The enemy was getting sniped by missiles as soon as they dropped out of the MCC. This was all on MY TEAM and it was ridiculous! No one but Noc, Caeli and Tiel got to play. They are at a collective 121 kills and no deaths, with 15000 WP between the three of them. CCP, I haven't ever directly complained to you guys, but this is too far. The way vehicles can be abused now, only the people who skill into them will ever get to play. It's the fault of the system and mechanics, not the players who exploited them. 122 - 0 now... LOL! I know the feeling dude. I have been at the recieving end of those dripshits LMFAO. CCP says swarms are fixed, means swarms are fixed . What do we testers know?
843 pano 843 Boot Camp 200	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:53:00 - [65] - Quote Yep, my advanced accelerated missile turrets are nuts, especially with the added 20% mod and my 20% or so skill bonuses. They can take out an installation in four hits... that's pretty darn strong. I believe the 5m splash damage is 336 with mod and skills, so most are insta killed by the splash alone.
Necandi Brasil Conspiratus Immortalis 245	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:57:00 - [66] - Quote Maybe fighters will be able to take them down more quickly
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:45:00 - [67] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: 843 pano wrote: Skill up with a forge. They can 2 hit kill my 4200 shield myron. Or, wait for the dropship to camp a spot and lay in the swarms. They're not broken, you just have to work as a team to take them down, which is the way it should be. If it takes 2-3 guys to make an effective dropship then it should take 2-3 guys working together to knock it down. I would tend to agree with this. I think the problem is that your team communicated so poorly that they got red lined. Had you not gotten red lined, then the DS wouldn't have done so well. When you see a DS on the field, or a tank for that matter, your squad needs to resupply into AV fits and get them off the field. Done and done. Zion has no problems with this - see the results of our matches this past weekend in the tournament where several tanks and DS were killed in the same match. If you run dedicated squads/corp. battles, yes it's easy to tell all to switch AV. But if you're running solo in a pub match, I wouldn't trust them to hack a terminal they are standing on (seen it). Hard to organize truly effective AV if in random pubs solo. Exactly
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:01:00 - [68] - Quote I agree with Noc's previous post of it being the maps. Right now a dropship can just steer clear of everything by going off map, forge guns are now range nerfed and can no longer present the same level of threat; you basically have one chance to hit any competent dropship pilot, and that is not enough to bring them down. They're gone and recovering by the time you're ready to pop off a second shot. Aside of that, there's no point in using any other turret in the game besides missiles right now; that's poor game design right there. When there's clearly only one choice because the other choices are poor and non-competitive, re-balancing (not nerfing, re-balancing) needs to occur. That and it also doesn't help that most random bluedots seem incapable or unwilling to work as a team to bring dropships down, but hey. That's the nature of random bluedots.
General Stonewall Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2012.11.01 02:08:00 - [69] - Quote i agree we need to nerf the dropships or gimp their speeds to actually allow for the swarmers to hit them if not at least give us the Weblifiers we were going to get this build or something to counter the dropships this build but either way we don't have much longer on this build so hopefully they nerf dropships and militia AR as well both are way way OP.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2012.11.01 02:19:00 - [70] - Quote I can easily, well...relatively easily anyway, take any dropship I've met so far down to around maybe 60% HP or so. With 2 or maybe 3 other forge gunners we could take any ds down or at least keep it off the map. Tanks really were OP the last build, but the DS isn't. Teamwork is just severely lacking. Of course, since there's an SP cap now and you honestly wouldn't have much fun if you went dedicated forge gunner at the moment and the fact is most DS's are just out of reach of most AV players. It'll equal out once people have the spare SP to level some of this stuff up.

StormBloodmoon Warbringer WarRavens 5	Posted - 2012.11.01 02:50:00 - [71] - Quote After reading through this entire thread I have noticed 2 things, half of you are blaming the maps and the other half are blaming the ships/turrets. The most effective thing for CCP to do to cater to everyones needs would be to change the maps, add more cover etc. and slightly nerf the vehicles, or instead of nerf the vehicles replace the basic swarm launcher skill buff with a velocity increase. I personally feel it is utterly ridiculous that a swarm launcher has almost no chance of hitting a dropship, maybe when the pilot is unsespecting or pre-occupied, but that only allows time for one, maybe two shots if your lucky. Still no where near enough to take out a or tank half the time, especially when people have put hundreds of thousands of skill point into buffing the vehicles themselves.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.11.01 05:32:00 - [72] - Quote What happens when two freindly dropships collide into eachother repeatedly?
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.11.01 06:17:00 - [73] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: What happens when two freindly dropships collide into eachother repeatedly? A baby dropship is created.
Brush Master HavoK Core 163	Posted - 2012.11.01 06:30:00 - [74] - Quote I'm sure ccp got the picture by now that swarms are broken. As far as high kill streaks, a pilot has to survive with ship at least 4-5 games to even pay for our protoships. 95% of swarms I see are militia, so even if they introduce skills to speed them up, there is always going to be complaints that ds are op because people are not on the same level. +1 for more maps with cover, especially at spawns.
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 181	Posted - 2012.11.01 07:13:00 - [75] - Quote Brush Master wrote: I'm sure ccp got the picture by now that swarms are broken. As far as high kill streaks, a pilot has to survive with ship at least 4-5 games to even pay for our protoships. 95% of swarms I see are militia, so even if they introduce skills to speed them up, there is always going to be complaints that ds are op because people are not on the same level. +1 for more maps with cover, especially at spawns. I mean I guess that adding more cover COULD help. However even that wouldn't be perfect. Splash damage bleeds through cover atm (The only reason tanks can camp the MCC). What Noc is passing over is that there wasn't any chance to use cover in the first place. He called in his dropship and got it in the air within the first two minutes of the map. He hovered over the red line and his team blasted people just as they hit the ground from the MCC. When it came to the three objective map (The name is escaping me) I watched him float his Dropship behind our red line so he could watch the swarms explode harmlessly in front of of him (or her. I just don't know). Unless infantry should be covered from the second they hit the ground, changing the map to cater to them will still be ineffective. There have to be places without open ground to give the infantry ground game some dynamic. Furthermore, the idea that a change in the map would change or remove the ability of a single dropship to dictate a match is bizarre to me. Maybe it could work, but if the fix is as simple as that I would think people would have started hiding behind cover and would have started killing dropships. This still hasn't happened. Even with the little cover people have, DS can out pilot whatever is thrown at them. You are also right that people will complain. That's okay. People always complain. There is merit to arguing "You have to skill into X before you can complain about it". However. The odds that Dropships are killing people who HAVE skilled heavily into AV go up with every kill made. Out of the 122 that I watched yesterday I would have to assume at least one had a good av fit. Adding more cover doesn't fix the issue. It cures a symptom, not the disease. Dropships have unlimited ammo, the highest mobility anything in dust CAN have and the most accurate weapons - even more accurate than tank missile launchers due to the vantage Dropships can get.
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.11.01 07:39:00 - [76] - Quote 50-75% damage decrease on small turrets placed on a dropship or decrease the base damage. That should end the issue, the thing's a dropship not a gunship. As for swarms needing a speed increase, that's just stupid. People never seem to think about the affect this would have on land vehicles. The pathing is already insane how it can follow the exact path a vehicles drives let alone a speed increase. Stating the maps are the issue is a joke also. Sure there's issues, but do we really want CoD 514?. I sure don't.
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.11.01 08:38:00 - [77] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I don't blame you guys for abusing a broken system, but you defeat the whole purpose of the beta by doing it. We can't test if we can't play. Everyone who plays the game didn't pay $20 for a beta that we can't be a part of... Not all of us paid to be in the beta f.y.i
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.11.01 08:41:00 - [78] - Quote A lot of people did Hunt and they left after a week..... That should be ringing alarm bells tbh
ertert1 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 48	Posted - 2012.11.01 09:29:00 - [79] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I'm actually writing in the middle of the match because there is nothing to do. The fact that anyone could determine the match because of one vehicle is absurd. There was no room for the "use a forge and get good argument". The enemy was getting sniped by missiles as soon as they dropped out of the MCC. This was all on MY TEAM and it was ridiculous! No one but Noc, Caeli and Tiel got to play. They are at a collective 121 kills and no deaths, with 15000 WP between the three of them. CCP, I haven't ever directly complained to you guys, but this is too far. The way vehicles can be abused now, only the people who skill into them will ever get to play. It's the fault of the system and mechanics, not the players who exploited them. 122 - 0 now... How about NOT spawning on the MCC? Just a thought...
Deranged Disaster Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 65	Posted - 2012.11.01 09:54:00 - [80] - Quote Personally, I don't think dropships should be nerfed at all. If the pilot is useless the dropship itself is useless too. The only thing I believe should happen would be give us more means to take them down in easier ways, so that the pilots will think twice about flying them around the map. I heard CCP wanted to buff up the swarm launcher and nerf the forge gun, what I see so far is only a nerf for the forge gun and no buffing up of the swarm launcher, which causes vehicles to be dominant in every situation.

Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 82	Posted - 2012.11.01 09:59:00 - [81] - Quote ertert1 wrote: How about NOT spawning on the MCC? Just a thought... That's the point. There is at least 1 map (Ashland) where a dropship or a tank can spawn camp both the MCC and the spawn point at the base at the same time. I think that is the map the OP refered to. If you get redlined there, you might as well leave the game.
Marcus Chrome Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.11.01 10:28:00 - [82] - Quote CCP needs to make sure vehicles don't become overpowered. Even vehicles in the Battlefield series are somewhat overpowered at times, with people easily making it to a k/d of 80-0 in public games of 32 players (hello J10, i'm talking to you). Vehicles sometimes seem balanced because they're very difficult to use properly, though this is a very dangerous thing to assume! Best to nerf them to hell and buff them later than the other way around. This way it's also an opportunity for good PR after the game's release.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.01 13:11:00 - [83] - Quote Dropship = transport ship Eazy fixes to it tbh 1. Take away all guns 2. Give it more tank 3. Mobile CRU cannot be removed at all 4. Pilot gets points for ppl spawning in, also i feel the transport ship should replenish armor and ammo so pilot gets more pts 5. Eject button so ppl dont hide in it all the damn time
Hobos-N-Guns Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 44	Posted - 2012.11.01 13:27:00 - [84] - Quote Thats because in the future swarm missiles are 400 yrs behind the rest of the future tech. or someone taught them the wrong way to fly after targets which we all know is a straight line with constant corrections while in flight. For something that is a big part of counter AV, you've really dropped the ball on this one
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.01 13:46:00 - [85] - Quote Honestly, with that map, we could have done the same thing with infantry; they can stand in places where they stare at the spawn. Doing it with the vehicles IS easier, but it was more for the lol factor. These maps are all terrible for mixed arms combat.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2012.11.01 14:28:00 - [86] - Quote Belzeebub Santana wrote: The rocking from swarms needs to be toned down but not removed, and there should be DIFFERENT types of swarm launchers. Everything to tank busters, dropship droppers, to anti infantry. Variety is the spice of life! StormBloodmoon Warbringer wrote: . . . instead of nerf the vehicles replace the basic swarm launcher skill buff with a velocity increase . . . ^^ THIS! ^^ Give swarms more balancing points than just missile count and damage. Give different swarms different flight paths, or it may be necessary to program the swarms to have different flight paths depending on what they are shooting at. That way CCP can tweak swarms against air targets while not screwing ground vehicles and vice versa. Anyone can carry a swarm and that is a huge difference when compared to something like a forge. Make it to where skills are necessary to make swarms shine, but when skilled and used properly make them shine bright. Personally I would also love the option of allowing dropships to not equip weapons and implement some way of getting SP form transport actions, friendly spawns, etc.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.01 14:56:00 - [87] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Give swarms more balancing points than just missile count and damage. Give different swarms different flight paths, or it may be necessary to program the swarms to have different flight paths depending on what they are shooting at. That way CCP can tweak swarms against air targets while not screwing ground vehicles and vice versa. Anyone can carry a swarm and that is a huge difference when compared to something like a forge. Make it to where skills are necessary to make swarms shine, but when skilled and used properly make them shine bright. Personally I would also love the option of allowing dropships to not equip weapons and implement some way of getting SP form transport actions, friendly spawns, etc. +1 for this
Brush Master HavoK Core 163	Posted - 2012.11.01 15:12:00 - [88] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Brush Master wrote: I'm sure ccp got the picture by now that swarms are broken. As far as high kill streaks, a pilot has to survive with ship at least 4-5 games to even pay for our protoships. 95% of swarms I see are militia, so even if they introduce skills to speed them up, there is always going to be complaints that ds are op because people are not on the same level. +1 for more maps with cover, especially at spawns. I mean I guess that adding more cover COULD help. However even that wouldn't be perfect. Splash damage bleeds through cover atm (The only reason tanks can camp the MCC). What Noc is passing over is that there wasn't any chance to use cover in the first place. He called in his dropship and got it in the air within the first two minutes of the map. He hovered over the red line and his team blasted people just as they hit the ground from the MCC. When it came to the three objective map (The name is escaping me) I watched him float his Dropship behind our red line so he could watch the swarms explode harmlessly in front of of him (or her. I just don't know). Unless infantry should be covered from the second they hit the ground, changing the map to cater to them will still be ineffective. There have to be places without open ground to give the infantry ground game some dynamic. Furthermore, the idea that a change in the map would change or remove the ability of a single dropship to dictate a match is bizarre to me. Maybe it could work, but if the fix is as simple as that I would think people would have started hiding behind cover and would have started killing dropships. This still hasn't happened. Even with the little cover people have, DS can out pilot whatever is thrown at them. You are also right that people will complain. That's okay. People always complain. There is merit to arguing "You have to skill into X before you can complain about it". However. The odds that Dropships are killing people who HAVE skilled heavily into AV go up with every kill made. Out of the 122 that I watched yesterday I would have to assume at least one had a good av fit. Adding more cover doesn't fix the issue. It cures a symptom, not the disease. Dropships have unlimited ammo, the highest mobility anything in dust CAN have and the most accurate weapons - even more accurate than tank missile launchers due to the vantage Dropships can get. Srry dude but I have personally taken down Nocs ship on several occasions with my proto swarmer, its all about position and cover. Sure I died a couple times before its down but that's totally fair when a dropship cost 40 times my suits cost. My ships get shot down as well, usually when there is a proto forger in a game. Any pilot will tell you that a proto forger in the the game = pilot will not sit still. If there are just a bunch of militia swarmers, we can sit and just tank it for the most part. Cover is an excellent step to reducing the dropships effectiveness.
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 314	Posted - 2012.11.01 16:27:00 - [89] - Quote I hope CCP reads this thread as there are a lot of good points from all sides. I was on the recieving end of the match the OP is talking about and spawned on the ground (not out of the MCC as that seemed foolish, like people said). But was killed right as I spawned in. There was no option to use an AV fitting. And in the situation (knowing you are 90% likely to get spawn killed) would you really opt to spawn in with an expensive AV kit? The worst part of it is I dropped out of the match as soon as I realized what was happening. But because there are so few testers/servers it sent me right back when I looked for a better match. So it is this or don't play. Next match I was on the team with the dropship crew. As OP said, there was nothing for the rest of the team to do. No fun or challenge involved, just "LOLs" for the dropship crew and a horrible waste of time for everyone else. And no easy way to just quit out and find a different match.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:18:00 - [90] - Quote An exposed spawn sounds like a map problem. Getting redlined sounds like either a match problem (starting unbalanced), or just very unbalanced teams. I've been on both sides of each.



Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page