Lol you just wait dude all the tank srubs are gona hate this

Also Why pick such an awful fit as an example? Well even this bad fit shows its overpowered so lolz.

Also you might wana factor in shield regen because that adds up more than you might think.


Anyway thanks for takign the time to put this together and congrats on not making any tank friends today lolz

Edit: lol didnt even see you were using an officer forge gun lol nice.

in b4 tank fanboys flame
1+ for the explanation maybe this time they will admit tanks are OP

we need mines or some sort of trap for tanks where you can set up and hide, going toe to toe is insane

you math is off.

a 60% damage reduction leaves the forge gun with 40% of it's damage, or: 1340X.4=536.

you multiplied by .6, or: 1340X.6=804 which would represent a 40% damage reduction.


so in reality it's much much worse.

That's why they're going to buff AV and Forgeguns on the next build. I believe 25% more.

So your complaining that two guys can't take out a 3 man tank which probably costs more than their fits combined and multiplied by at least 3.....

People seem obsessed with this idea that 1-2 guys should insta pop a tank. You even say yourself that 2 forge gunners would make a tank run. I'd go as far to say that one can.

The point here is that the tank HAS to move and your denying it whatever it was doing. The fact it's not dead isn't the issue, the AV has done it's job and the tank is gone. Besides the fact that if the tank didn't run, then it'd be dead so AV is fine?, no?.

I've not used the Forge gun this build, but I'm on the receiving end of it a lot and to me it does it's job. If I hear the thing fire up I run, if I don't I'm as good as dead and if not I have to retreat out of the fight to recover.

I have however used the swarm launcher and anybody saying tanks are OP HASN'T specced into swarms. I can kill Marauders and make them run like girls on my own with lvl 2 Swarms... Yeah AV is really broken...not. How about people actually spec into countering it?.

I've seen organised groups of 4 devastate a tank, just because they can't be solo'd doesn't mean they're OP.

Personally the only true counter to a tank should be a tank or some kind of artillery/tank killer vehicle.

I will admit that there's an issue with how many tanks we see in a single match however, but this could all be eliminated through the use of War Points cost to deploy or just limiting the amount of tanks.

Can we make it so that 2 frigates can pop a titan in EvE CCP?, this is obviously what the Dust player base wants as far as vehicles go.

Simply buffing AV is not the answer. There's tonnes of systems that could be deployed to balance them, simply crying nerf or buff is total crap imo.

For example how about making vehicle weapons do 75% AV damage and 25% AI damage?, in fact no lets go with crying over numbers and shout buff AV waaahhhhh!!111!

You say this but I felt unstoppable befor the AV nerf.

I had 2 Sagaris' for the first Precursor deployment, and as soon as I looked over their new stats, I never even used them. First match I went into featured 3 of them dying within 5 minutes to AV grenades.

Another important thing to note is that they were dying to AV grenades and Swarms used IN A GROUP. Always squad up, and always surround/trap. Once they re-buff AV and put in the Stasis Webifier mines, the current stats on HAVs are going to make operating them suicidal.

So let me get this straight. Your basing all this on the fact a salvage only weapon can't kill a proto Tank?. As far as I'm aware that doesn't mean it's the best, just a lot rarer and a greater loss to lose one.

How about picking something readily available so it doesn't look one sided as hell. Sure if you lose something rare your gonna rage more.

I still stand by my argument about Swarms, you obviously haven't tried it.

I can make a loadout using the Assault 2 suit with lvl 2 swarms and damage modifiers and it eats marauders. Doesn't cost hardly anything per spawn. The cost argument on the forge is still valid, my tank costs 2-3 mill isk. That means those two guys have 3-4 lives to attack me, yet I have one?. Yeah that's really fair and balanced that is...

Seriously, it sounds more like your complaining about heavy's/forge's being broken than Tanks, (which to be fair I think they are).

Plus I'd like to point out that your basing your "facts" on the descriptions given to us on the items. I know for a fact that CCP has dropped a ******* on a fair few of the stats. AV grenades, for example, read 200 odd damage now and did even back in last patch where they did like 1-2k....

Until all CCP's gameplay systems and correct stats are in place, posts like this thread are totally irrelevant and nothing more than whines tbh. NONE of us know what's being planned and raging that something is OP now is pointless.

I'll quite confidently say that I'm one of the better HAV drivers out there and I have to run, a lot. We are not invincible, far from it. The problem comes when 90% of the people your playing are total idiots, refuse to work together or adapt to a situation.

On the US servers they don't even attempt to deal with tanks and on the EU servers at least they shoot at you with something other than their AR, sometimes.

I had 2 Sagaris' for the first Precursor deployment, and as soon as I looked over their new stats, I never even used them. First match I went into featured 3 of them dying within 5 minutes to AV grenades.

Another important thing to note is that they were dying to AV grenades and Swarms used IN A GROUP. Always squad up, and always surround/trap. Once they re-buff AV and put in the Stasis Webifier mines, the current stats on HAVs are going to make operating them suicidal.

If two guys can't do it in a timely manner, bring three or four. Why try to barely kill a tank when you can bend the mofo over.

Anytime the enemy deploys a tank, a good portion of your team should go to the nearly resupply and get into an AV fit and kill it dead.. Then switch back.

Shield Resist Amps and the Damage Control should not add to each other. They should follow the rule of diminishing returns, exactly as they do in EVE.

I'm fine with a tank resisting 50% of all damage. Resisting 80%? That's just nuts.

I still think the solution is needing more than one player for a tank to work so they're not just giant win buttons and become more of a strategic deployment.

Exactly. If it take 4 players to kill a tank, it should take 4 players to operate a tank. Fair should be fair, in a game at least.

/confused
how many suicide gankers does it take to bring a mining barge down?

cost =/= survivability <--strawman?

[

That would only be fair if the tank and the AV suits were both free. There's plenty of balance currently.

3 people in a tank vs 4 people on the ground. It takes 1 more person to take out the tank because the tank is *usually* far more expensive than the 4 AV suits being used to take it out. I'm talking reasonably fit suits and a reasonably fit tank. Obviously going cheaper on either shoves the favor into the other side's favor.

Once they re-buff AV and put in the Stasis Webifier mines, the current stats on HAVs are going to make operating them suicidal.

People seem obsessed with this idea that 1-2 guys should insta pop a tank. You even say yourself that 2 forge gunners would make a tank run. I'd go as far to say that one can.

The point here is that the tank HAS to move and your denying it whatever it was doing. The fact it's not dead isn't the issue, the AV has done it's job and the tank is gone. Besides the fact that if the tank didn't run, then it'd be dead so AV is fine?, no?.

I can kill Marauders and make them run like girls on my own with lvl 2 Swarms...

I've seen organised groups of 4 devastate a tank, just because they can't be solo'd doesn't mean they're OP.

I will admit that there's an issue with how many tanks we see in a single match however, but this could all be eliminated through the use of War Points cost to deploy or just limiting the amount of tanks.

EDITORIAL NOTE: My math was wrong and I have changed the post accordingly - please see bottom of post for further information.

This build the AV/Tank balance is just ridiculous. Here's why.

Here's the stacking penalties on using more than one Shield Resistance on an HAV.

-25% 1 Shield Resist
-46.75% 2 Shield Resists
-61% 3 Shield Resists
-68% 4 Shield Resists
-82% 4 Shield Resists + Damage Control

Now, for the sake of argument, we're going to assume that a Sagaris with two resistances, a shield extender, a damage control, and a booster.

6000 (approximately) HP with 60.75% resistance.

Now we'll pit it against an Officer Forge Gun, which does 1080 damage - base - and with Weaponry 5 and Proficiency 3 would be an 24% increase to a grand total of 1340.

Now, we're going to take the resistances and apply it to our forge gun, which now makes it at 536.

6,000 divided by 536 = 11.19, approximately. This is about two magazines from your Officer Forge Gun.

This means that with two (officer) forge gunners firing at the same Tank, taking into account charge up times, it would take 10 Seconds for both gunners to exhaust their magazines and theoretically deplete the tank's shields. Round about's 20, for one gunner. In this time frame the tank has already disengaged the battle and has retreated to an area that it can use it's booster - all the while using a large array of weaponry to fire back at it's opponents.

Whatever happened in this build screwed over any balance there ever was between vehicles and Anti-Vehicle builds.

To counter the argument that Movement Nullifiers will "fix everything", you're very wrong. Movement Nullifiers will help but they won't solve the issue at hand - as this math is directed for -ONE TANK- and I have seen as many as five in a single match.

I'm curious as to what CCP was even thinking when they came out with the AV "hotfix" in the first place, to be honest. Reducing the speed on the tanks isn't the problem - it's their absolutely ridiculous invulnerability to conventional methods.

EDITORIAL NOTE: I know that the Officer Forge Gun has 6 rounds in the mag - but a Proto Forge Gun does about the same damage so it's a moot point.

FURTHER EDITORIAL NOTE: I realized that 804 was the 60% of the damage from the forge gun - that number was what was being removed from the equation, and replaced it with the 40% left over -after- the resistances were taken into account.

lol, are you stupid? 1 shield resist = 100% effect of it,
2 shield resist = each have 75% of its effetiency
3 shield resist give all 3 50% of their effecienty.

Having more then 2 shield resist doesnt have an effect anymore, 2 shield resist of +2 25% modules at 75% effecienty = 37.5%

3 shield resist of 25% turns them into 50% effecienty meaning also 37,5% resistance.


Ur talking about **** while you know nothing of it.

cause if it were like you said, hell, gunnlogi and sagaris have 5 highslots, if the **** you were talking about would be correct then i would put 5x 25% shield ward amplifiers, giving my tank 100% resistance IMU.

Idiot

this is towards the players, cause DEV does know i'm correct in this

Seriously, how the hell does one get entire tanks as salvage? Do you just pick it up off the ground and stuff it into your bag of trans-dimentionnal holding?

Obviously. It wouldn't be an RPG if it didn't have Type V Bags of Holding. Now I just need to find a +1 Keen Vorpal Assault Rifle of Wounding.

intire tanks, ur only getting the hull, nothing more

[...]anything that doesn't require a team to operate shouldn't take a team or even a squad to take down. Single person with correct equipment should be more than enough.

Argument for the above: Because otherwise there would be no reason to spec to anything else.

I still think the solution is needing more than one player for a tank to work so they're not just giant win buttons and become more of a strategic deployment.

the obvious answer is...Mecha. Tanks should take at leased two people to operate at 100%.
Mecha are the one man tank.

Tanks should be invulnerable to infantry, find a group of AV infantry dangerous. Find more then one Mecha? DEADLY.

Mecha should find AV Infantry deadly, find Tanks dangerous but manageable and can be solo if they play like AV infantry.

It's the only solution! Mecha. It solves everything! :D

I believe they call it MTACs in the EVE world ;)

the obvious answer is...Mecha. Tanks should take at leased two people to operate at 100%.
Mecha are the one man tank.

Tanks should be invulnerable to infantry, find a group of AV infantry dangerous. Find more then one Mecha? DEADLY.

Mecha should find AV Infantry deadly, find Tanks dangerous but manageable and can be solo if they play like AV infantry.

It's the only solution! Mecha. It solves everything! :D