I said it before, and I'll say it again.

People need to stop b*tching about this.
Every online FPS game has a TDM game mode, deal with it.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

People need to stop b*tching about this.
Every online FPS game has a TDM game mode, deal with it.

And if you have to post that more then 3 times your obviously swimming against the current especially on this topic

This is the second time I've posted it, so your point is moot.
Back on topic, the people that are complaining about this need to tough it out until CCP lets us manually select our battles.
They can feel free to avoid Ambush when that happens.

Ambush is my favorite game. In my opinion, most of the people who dislike ambush have a problem getting kills and so they blame the game mode. Ambush is perfect for learning how to move and shoot. Just suck it up.

Most people who dislike ambush dislike it because it has no objective other than shoot and kill

This wraps it up

Once again, I have to disagree with you.
The newest map, when played on Ambush, has supply depots, and I am assuming CCP will continue to add more installations in later maps created for Ambush.

Once again, I have to disagree with you.
The newest map, when played on Ambush, has supply depots, and I am assuming CCP will continue to add more installations in later maps created for Ambush.

Most people who dislike ambush dislike it because it has no objective other than shoot and kill

Which is what 90% of this game is all about. If you're having problems killing people now, Skirmish isn't going to help you.

Which is what 90% of this game is all about. If you're having problems killing people now, Skirmish isn't going to help you.

You keep going back to have trouble killing people who said anything about having trouble killing people were talking about how ambush(aka team death match) is not a fun mode in this game and that it should become a more objective based game mode because that's what "90" percent (I can make up numbers to) of this player base likes.

He wasnt talking about skill, he was talking about all the things you can do in it and ambush and ambush is theme park with one ride kill the other guy with friends. Its the difference between going to laser tag and going to a theme park. I know which one I would pick 100% of the time.

Not fun for you maybe, but I enjoy it. There is an objective in Ambush, it's called killing others while minimizing your deaths. It's all about attrition. And if you don't think the vast majority of game play involves killing people in either Skirmish or Ambush, then I don't know what to tell you.

Not fun for you maybe, but I enjoy it. There is an objective in Ambush, it's called killing others while minimizing your deaths. It's all about attrition. And if you don't think the vast majority of game play involves killing people in either Skirmish or Ambush, then I don't know what to tell you.

Arpentis-

Because the objective is to kill the other side's clones while limiting your own losses. That's the objective, plain and simple. Adding another objective would make it skirmish and not an Ambush.

Carlito-

That's not how OB mechanics work. You don't get a Deathstar to play with at launch. Eve IS a war of attrition, if you can't replace your losses, you're done.

Arpentis-

Because the objective is to kill the other side's clones while limiting your own losses. That's the objective, plain and simple. Adding another objective would make it skirmish and not an Ambush.

[quote=Abron
And you just listed the exact reason nobody likes to play ambush and I still fail to realize when ambush only meant kill everything and that's it...

What he just described sounds a lot like a gentle men's duel. Ha-ha-ha! Literally. It's not an ambush if both teams willing meet at the same gorch, or valley to slaughter one another. That is a skirmish, and simply put an arranged gentle men's duel. There is no objective. It borders on a bar fight. I mean if this was a supposed ambush then do explain why both sides obviously seem as if they were invited to come to a incursion which offers no real value? There is no objective to be had or won, and it seems all for nothing shy of selfish reasons. No team value whatsoever.

[quote=Abron
And you just listed the exact reason nobody likes to play ambush and I still fail to realize when ambush only meant kill everything and that's it... Also based on your logic any game that has multiple game modes really only have one one game mode because all the game modes have objectives in them.

Carlito-

First, In the "Seeding the Universe" fanfest video someone asked if you could basically destroy a district without fighting over it as a scorched earth method. Both devs stated that wasn't a feature in game but might be if players asked for it.

Secondly, OB has a cooldown and you have to have boots on the ground already fighting in order to use it.


Arpentis-

Nobody likes ambush? Funny, on the last build, Biomass and Communications usually had at least half the number of active players as skirmish had -Hardly nobody.

As for objectives. What objective are you going to add that wouldn't step on the toes of skirmish and completely change the flavor of ambush? KotH style with one side trying to hold an area...that is just an organized campfest. Click this terminal? That's skirmish. I agree there are ways to make Ambush more varied in terms of gameplay, but not by adding more skirmish style objectives.

What he just described sounds a lot like a gentle men's duel. Ha-ha-ha! Literally. It's not an ambush if both teams willing meet at the same gorch, or valley to slaughter one another. That is a skirmish, and simply put an arranged gentle men's duel. There is no objective. It borders on a bar fight. I mean if this was a supposed ambush then do explain why both sides obviously seem as if they were invited to come to a incursion which offers no real value? There is no objective to be had or won, and it seems all for nothing shy of selfish reasons. No team value whatsoever.

Carlito-

First, In the "Seeding the Universe" fanfest video someone asked if you could basically destroy a district without fighting over it as a scorched earth method. Both devs stated that wasn't a feature in game but might be if players asked for it.

Secondly, OB has a cooldown and you have to have boots on the ground already fighting in order to use it.


Arpentis-

Nobody likes ambush? Funny, on the last build, Biomass and Communications usually had at least half the number of active players as skirmish had -Hardly nobody.

As for objectives. What objective are you going to add that wouldn't step on the toes of skirmish and completely change the flavor of ambush? KotH style with one side trying to hold an area...that is just an organized campfest. Click this terminal? That's skirmish. I agree there are ways to make Ambush more varied in terms of gameplay, but not by adding more skirmish style objectives.

You mean every battle ever fought had another objective other than kill the other side? I agree with the naming system not being appropriate, but let's not argue for changing the entire game mode because the name is incorrect. If it helps you sleep at night, then imagine it's just two forces meeting and effectively skirmishing until one side is dead.

Carlito-

First, In the "Seeding the Universe" fanfest video someone asked if you could basically destroy a district without fighting over it as a scorched earth method. Both devs stated that wasn't a feature in game but might be if players asked for it.

Secondly, OB has a cooldown and you have to have boots on the ground already fighting in order to use it.


Arpentis-

Nobody likes ambush? Funny, on the last build, Biomass and Communications usually had at least half the number of active players as skirmish had -Hardly nobody.

As for objectives. What objective are you going to add that wouldn't step on the toes of skirmish and completely change the flavor of ambush? KotH style with one side trying to hold an area...that is just an organized campfest. Click this terminal? That's skirmish. I agree there are ways to make Ambush more varied in terms of gameplay, but not by adding more skirmish style objectives.

Hence my mention of the other team using OB on the other team, you still need ships and both sides are not gonna play nice unless its warbarges. learn 2 read.

BTW skirmish was 50 ppl max last build while skirmish enjoyed a cool 250 to 300 all the time

You mean every battle ever fought had another objective other than kill the other side? I agree with the naming system not being appropriate, but let's not argue for changing the entire game mode because the name is incorrect. If it helps you sleep at night, then imagine it's just two forces meeting and effectively skirmishing until one side is dead.

You and me must have been playing two different last build Ambush was empty most of the time. And your telling me that you really can't think of something that can be changed to have more of an objective based game not every objective has to be hack this or hold this it could be steal this or destroy this

I asked you what objective you would add to make Ambush more interesting. And again, Ambush was not empty, not even close, unless you're playing at 5 am EST on a US server. Ambush is team death match. That's what it is. I don't know why people cannot grasp this. Now, stealing or destroying "this", whatever "this" is, sounds fun, but it should have its own game mode. Don't just remove or change Ambush because YOU don't prefer it.

I have personally called down about a dozen OB strikes and its devestating in the right hands. Im talking whole teams slaughtered or forced off a point, you have rosey idea of fighting against that but I have seen three orbital strike in one game and guess what we won. Yes there is a cool down but having that kind of power in a pure KDR based game is not fun.


As for Null sec we will get there and we have to work to that from the beginning and ambush doesnt even work in null sec war with out some sort of tweek to make it worth it. Think of the future of the game CCP is trying to

If you called three OBs in one game then your team was already winning prior to that, or would have anyway. Right now it takes a few WPs to drop those on someone and to get enough for 3 means you and your team were already beating the other side heavily.

Bolded the important parts of your post.

Ambush works in hisec/lowsec for people who just want to log in and kill a few people before going to bed/work, w/e. right now Ambush has a faster turnover than skirmish, this means I can get more isk and sp faster than I normally would in skirmish. I also can lone-wolf it more depending on the map. Sometimes I just want to kill people, Ambush allows me to do that faster and with less fuss. That's why it is a good game mode, but not for everyone all the time. Thankfully we get to choose what we play.

If you called three OBs in one game then your team was already winning prior to that, or would have anyway. Right now it takes a few WPs to drop those on someone and to get enough for 3 means you and your team were already beating the other side heavily.

Bolded the important parts of your post.

Ambush works in hisec/lowsec for people who just want to log in and kill a few people before going to bed/work, w/e. right now Ambush has a faster turnover than skirmish, this means I can get more isk and sp faster than I normally would in skirmish. I also can lone-wolf it more depending on the map. Sometimes I just want to kill people, Ambush allows me to do that faster and with less fuss. That's why it is a good game mode, but not for everyone all the time. Thankfully we get to choose what we play.

Again team deathwatch does not make sense in this game and it's me and most of this game's community that do not enjoy it, as you can tell for the other 20 threads on this topic do not try to single me out like I'm the odd one out and I did play around that time I live on the east coast and..... Uh... Yeah..... It was just as empty... And if it was called team deathwatch instead of ambush that would make people less mad but it still wouldn't make a lick of sense in a game like this.

Most people don't like using shotguns or playing in heavy suits. And please tell me you're not seriously going to use the number of threads as a way to gauge who likes and plays what. Last week, 4 of those "20" threads were made by Carlito and it pretty much has the same people in each thread going back and forth. Also, most of those threads were in regard to the fact we weren't able to choose which map we got to play for testing purposes. If you played at 5am est then yes Ambush would be empty because most people on the east coast are either asleep or heading to work/school.

SO you turn to the its a game argument when the rest of us are trying to make a serious point.

Ran out points to argue did you?


Make it gladiator arena and not for war.


Make Ambush more apt to its name.

Depends.. I think I have every choice. Why? Because, I accept what contracts are fowarded or available to me, or my group. Meaning I have a choice. I do not have to accept a contract just because, it is there.

All in how you look at things I suppose.

Most people don't like using shotguns or playing in heavy suits. And please tell me you're not seriously going to use the number of threads as a way to gauge who likes and plays what. Last week, 4 of those "20" threads were made by Carlito and it pretty much has the same people in each thread going back and forth. Also, most of those threads were in regard to the fact we weren't able to choose which map we got to play for testing purposes. If you played at 5am est then yes Ambush would be empty because most people on the east coast are either asleep or heading to work/school.

Lies, cant argue with a liar. As for ambush it sucks who agrees

Instead of getting angry and making nearly unintelligible posts, it might be better if you actually used some critical thinking skills.

Yes it is a game. And sometimes people want to just log in and kill a few people for some laughs. Not always, but sometimes. That's what TDM is for. It's also there so people with epeens can grab a few of their friends and fight another group with epeens for e-honor. There are a lot of reasons for having a TDM style game mode in Dust.

One

Two

Three


Found those with 30 seconds of searching. Please try and act like an adult.

We didn't get to choose those maps because CCP needed ambush tested but nobody was playing it as well as the player base being spread to thin that's why we were forced to use instant battle.

Yeah make it gladiator arena not for war and Im not gonna type essays to you. If you wanna do what you just described go get that from COD because it already exists. Dust is trying to do something new and that can include KDR base game but ambush doesnt as it stand does little to further district control for what will eventually be null sec war. I have no problem with it making it there but mind you but if it does it will be hard pressed to have any real place there besides avoid that district till last. At that point it will be a cake walk. So by all mean have your ambush and we will ***** about the dead end future of it. It will stay in high sec and you guy can drink your beer and chill in high sec. Thats fine but that game doesnt translate well when commanders are trying to navigate district battle order and thats a bad game mechanic which at the level Eve commanders in Low and null sec.

"Why send equal troop against equal troops, Ill wait and go around" says the eve commander

Abron why are you so against turning ambush into a game mode that would be better and more fun for all that people will actually want to play it?

SO you cant read the part where I agreed with you about high sec KDR games?

I muddled through the poorly written text brick you threw at me, but i got that part. That's not the argument.

The argument is ambush should be changed into something more constructive that most players feel is awesome.

Your argument is TDM should be in Dust.

You see the difference

Ambush is TDM.

We all feel that Ambush isnt that fun and should be changed to something more fun. TDM isnt threatened by that its just getting reassigned some where else in my argument. Get off the pills bro.

Honestly, leave ambush alone. You don't like it, don't play it. Honestly sometimes your tired and just want to lay back and kill. No playing tag with objective: a, b, c, d.

If you add an objective to ambush then it becomes a smaller mode of skirmish.

Their seems to be a base of players who enjoys it also. A game needs variety so it is natural to have a team death match mode. Mag had Suppression which was like Ambush, and Sabotage which was like Skirmish. Of course Sabotage was more popular, but people were still actively playing Suppression.

The core of FPS was a team death match. I remember just wasting hours away playing golden eye 64 with my friends. It was a 2 vs 2 match, or sometimes a free for all. It was hours of entertainment. I understand mindlessly killing can and does get boring but it is a nice change of pace. If you don't like ambush don't play it. It is a place where people who care little about objectives and team work can go to run about.

Changing it to be a mini skirmish is going to ruin the spirit of a team death match. I'm pretty sure the game will have smaller skirmish mode, and some sort of capture the flag mode.

Whoa, blew my mind a bit there...
You are saying we should change Ambush in to something different, and put in a TDM mode?...
Do you understand how redundant this is? Why not just make a new game mode and leave Ambush as it is?

ROFL the depth of human understanding must be low today.

lol...I pointed out such a large flaw in your argument you can't even come up with a response.
Reread the comment at the top of this quote and then respond to this.
"TDM is just being reassigned some where else in my argument."
Let me say this again: You want to change Ambush to something "more fun" and reassign TDM? That IS redundant.
Maybe YOU should get off the pills.

There's that adding an objective to a game mode makes it like all the other game modes with objectives...

Yes adding an objective to ambush, makes it not longer the same mode.

Before it was a kill fest.

Add an objective it changes the entire mechanics of the match. It will involve defending that one objective. It essentially makes it a "light low calorie" version of Skirmish. Is it exactly like Skirmish? No, but it embodies the basic spirit of Skirmish.

Hey if they wanna add a Smaller Skirmish that is cool. Or other types of match like a capture the flag, or a juggernaut mode. More the better, but don't obliterate one game mode because it isn't the most popular one.

The point of team death match is to kill. Nothing else.

There's that adding an objective to a game mode makes it like all the other game modes with objectives...

lol...I pointed out such a large flaw in your argument you can't even come up with a response.
Reread the comment at the top of this quote and then respond to this.
"TDM is just being reassigned some where else in my argument."
Let me say this again: You want to change Ambush to something "more fun" and reassign TDM? That IS redundant.
Maybe YOU should get off the pills.

Once you add other objectives to TDM, it's no longer traditional TDM.

But who said that objective has to be hack and hold?

Once again, I have to disagree with you.
The newest map, when played on Ambush, has supply depots, and I am assuming CCP will continue to add more installations in later maps created for Ambush.

But that doesn't make it the same as any other game mode that is my point TDM or not.

If it isn't broke don't fix it. Team Death Match was the corner stone of online fps gaming. Objectives were added to that cocktail to make it more enticing, but ultimately they should just have a plain old death match mode.

Sometimes you walk into that ice cream shop and honestly you just want vanilla, not mocha latte mint flavor.

Adding an objective kills the spirit of an original team death match. It becomes something different when you add an objective. Whether it is hack and hold. Or capture the flag. Or plant a bomb.

TDM has no place in this game as it is, it needs tweeks. Read this thread before commenting on something I already mentioned, There needs to be a point besides kill each other to make it more interesting and it can be as simple as adding CRUs to the maps and fixing the infinite grenade resupply from supply depots.

As for the name Ambush it needs to be a whole different game type or a more apt name.

TDM or Ambush needs both of those in my opinion but one will most likely do.

Honestly, leave ambush alone. You don't like it, don't play it. Honestly sometimes your tired and just want to lay back and kill. No playing tag with objective: a, b, c, d.

If you add an objective to ambush then it becomes a smaller mode of skirmish.

Their seems to be a base of players who enjoys it also. A game needs variety so it is natural to have a team death match mode. Mag had Suppression which was like Ambush, and Sabotage which was like Skirmish. Of course Sabotage was more popular, but people were still actively playing Suppression.

The core of FPS was a team death match. I remember just wasting hours away playing golden eye 64 with my friends. It was a 2 vs 2 match, or sometimes a free for all. It was hours of entertainment. I understand mindlessly killing can and does get boring but it is a nice change of pace. If you don't like ambush don't play it. It is a place where people who care little about objectives and team work can go to run about.

Changing it to be a mini skirmish is going to ruin the spirit of a team death match. I'm pretty sure the game will have smaller skirmish mode, and some sort of capture the flag mode.

Vehicles should cost personal WP in Ambush - in fact, list the WP cost in its stats.

Problem solved.

Ok but it does not fit in this game as you saw last build as well as this one people do not like to play ambush so it's obviously doing something wrong so instead of having something no one plays how about we make into something people do play.

Yea...um...no I don't even know where the hell you came from with that it had absolutely to do with anything were discussing about...

This is just completely false. People did play Ambush; I'm one of them.

Pffft.. Seriously?! Supression was only played by KDR skanks looking for easy kills, and trying to ruin the experience of rookie players just entering the game. Anyone with more then five hours of experience should never be caught playing supression again. Simple as that. The core of FPS gameplay is debatable. Capture The Flag and other objective oriented game modes always have played a more important role, and always catch more players. Team deathmatch only works well when the maps are smaller, and spawning is more grouped. As it stands the game mode known as ambush is lacking, unrefined, and as I have pointed a cluser f#ck.

If you do not care about objectives -- why are you playing Dust514 where the team and objective come first? Seriously. It sounds like you are looking for a game such as Unreal Tournament, Quake, Call of Duty, or other varying titles. Granted I loved Unreal Tournament, but simple is simple nonetheless.

Ambush is simply a bar room fight. Nothing "ambushy" about it. Both teams showed up at a specific date and time just to rumble. What is this? West Side Story?!

Why are you so salty about it?

I solved the problem with TDM - the only problem.
I deserve congratulations.

It is like that in mostly every game with the option of Objectives and a Team Death Match. People enjoy objectives more.

Look at MAG. People play Sabotage a lot more, which is like Skirmish. They don't play suppression as much, which is like ambush. Doesn't mean zipper (RIP) will remove it.

Pffft.. Seriously?! Supression was only played by KDR skanks looking for easy kills, and trying to ruin the experience of rookie players just entering the game. Anyone with more then five hours of experience should never be caught playing supression again. Simple as that. The core of FPS gameplay is debatable. Capture The Flag and other objective oriented game modes always have played a more important role, and always catch more players. Team deathmatch only works well when the maps are smaller, and spawning is more grouped. As it stands the game mode known as ambush is lacking, unrefined, and as I have pointed a cluser f#ck.

If you do not care about objectives -- why are you playing Dust514 where the team and objective come first? Seriously. It sounds like you are looking for a game such as Unreal Tournament, Quake, Call of Duty, or other varying titles. Granted I loved Unreal Tournament, but simple is simple nonetheless.

Ambush is simply a bar room fight. Nothing "ambushy" about it. Both teams showed up at a specific date and time just to rumble. What is this? West Side Story?!

I did to it was boring as hell but I only did it to practice drops hip flying which is all its good for which shouldn't be all it's good for and when I say nobody I really mean a small amount keep that in mind.

Because having a choice between TDM and other game modes is a bad thing.

Sometimes I just want to log in and kill people as fast as possible, Ambush does that perfectly.

Not really. Especially as it stands. No cohesive gameplay at all. It acts more like a game of death match then playing as a team deathmatch. What you are looking for is and are arena set matches. Which would be held for personal glory, ISK, and wealth. Having variaty is not a bad thing. However when the game mode in question deploys and plays horribly? I'd rather it be redone at this point.

Small relative to what? Most nights between a fourth and a third of the population was in Biomass or Communication. You're telling me you're going to screw over a quarter of your potential customer base because skirmish has more people?

Anyway, I think I've found your problem. You're a pilot/driver. That's cool, but those maps usually had less emphasis on vehicular combat and more on infantry, which was another bonus.

Troll
That is all.

Don't get salty because you didn't fix anything.

Ok, so it seems to me some people don't seem to like Ambush. This wouldn't be such a big problem if it wasn't for the fact instant battle finder doesn't have a filter to, erm, filter out Ambush. So as I said somewhere on the first page, why not just suck it up until we get that filter?

Don't become even more of a dumbass because you think you did

But why just forget about it potentially damaging the game all because of "out of sight, out of mind" I for one love this game and would like to see it improve in all aspects.

This wraps it up

How does Ambush damage the game?

Because it has no place in the game it just doesn't and. It makes no sense how ownership of a district is decided upon who can kill the most immortal clones for no reason whatsoever.

Hyperbole aside, I'm not seeing any damage. Taking control of that district is a reason. Being the only side left standing is generally how most battles and wars pan out.

But the ambush map with supply depots is still better. Is it still not the same just becuase of that one change?

Well even that small change brings about a difference in the play style. Everyone will want to swarm and protect the supply depots to keep spamming forge and grenades. Heavies will stay to keep an infinite supply for their HMG's. Every bit of that changes the game in a different way.

The key here is how to add certain elements and keep the spirit of the death match. The game is not going to be about planetary conquest solely. Some people will just want to log on and shoot stuff.

It is serving the casual gamers.

You seemed to miss the IMMORTAL CLONES part and being the only side left standing is not just a full on deathmatch

Honestly the name for Skirmish sounds more suitable for Ambush.

This. Why is the game mode where one side is ambushing the other called "skirmish", and the mode that's an objectiveless skirmish called "ambush?" Did someone at CCP just switch the names on accident and now they don't want to admit it, or what?

so picture this -

one side ambushes another in an attempt to destroy the clones for the ground forces so the mcc can come in and do whatever without being in danger.at another operation can move forward.

why are so many people getting upset about ambush just existing in the game. its good to have a TDM as a selling point for an online game, and also ambush has a place in the game thematically as a way to weaken a planet's defenses before an eve pilot risks an expensive ship.

Because its a boring uninteresting mode

And holding circle over an installation is better somehow? You're arguing personal taste as a basis for destroying TDM.

But trying to take or hold these installations cause a fun amount of skirmishes to happen and it's a mode that actually requires teamwork and communication even if it's just the squad leader asking his squad to take something and it's not TDM it's supposed to be Ambush.

It means exactly what it says.