Now since a lot of people here like to use the "realism" argument being tactical is not about slow movement. Tactical movements are about small precise quick attacks "moving with a purpose" to achieve the larger goal. Not slow turtle paced movements across the battlefield. I can't tell you how many times it was drilled in our heads in basic... Move with a purpose or you will die! Execute the mission plan with a purpose or you will die! You have 10 minutes to assault this entrenchment. These teachings helped me get through 2 tours of duty!

Everything is done with a purpose. Also being tactical is about who has the better game plan a field commander should also be able to make changes on the fly and counter what ever the enemy may be doing. Being tactical is also about what fire team can execute there game plan the best and if they trust there battle to watch there back!

Mount training is also about being fast try clearing a building with xyz time while moving at the speeds in this game.



RANGE WALK PRIVATE!

Thank you.

I felt like I should have already explained this, but after 10 pages of trying to explain simple fps mechanics to people, I get sick of talking about it.

+1

+1 to this thread. Good explanation.


It's not about FPS mechanics. It's about proper military mechanics.
Even if your intentions are all in the right place, you can't use the FPS mechanics thread for this kind of thing. It's basically a flaming thread that no good will come out of. That's why I've completely ignored it even though I have a lot to contibute.

Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Fast is life. Now, going too slow is just plan sloppy; you do have an abjective. But once the team work and full mike support kicks in it is going to be about syncing your actions with the man to your left and right. Range walk indeed; not a sprint nor a crawl, but a synced decisive action. 8¦¬8ä¦!

i love when you guy try to be "tactical" you make better targets.
its a game it dont realy work the same.
but if your having fun go for it.

I really enjoyed Operation Flashpoint - both the original Bohemia Interactive version (and its ARMA sequels) and the Codemasters spin-offs Dragon Rising and Red River (the former being one of my all time fave console games). I've always wanted a very large scale war-sim for the console, but there's no mass market appeal apparently.

Never said it did in a video game! The way you see gameplay trailers and how they take objectives with such precise movement never really happens like that in a video game!

I enjoyed the Operation Flashpoint games as well Qube. But you are right no one wants to play a game where you can die from one shot to the leg lol. I remember my first time playing I was shot in the leg and I bled to death I was like WTF!

They would have to lower bullet damage a lot in the OF games. I love playing the co-op though with a group of friends!

OFP:DR had possibly the worst controls of any game ever.

Game not slow unless your an heavy

It's the same speed as slow shooters.
It is not and shouldn't become tribes pace though.
If it's going to run like an arena game, make the speed arena pace :)

ooookay

I'll take 1.15x of S2 and just 1.08 of S3 and I think I have enuf S1 for now.

OFP:DR had possibly the worst controls of any game ever.

Bump!

Come on seriously all you people ho want slow movements so the game can be more tactical are ignoring this?!

Why?

Had I said something like lol EVEtards think slow movements means tacticool they are stupid Dust sucks you suck your mom sucks! You ass hats would be all up in here the thread would be on page 20 by now. This is the problem CCP has created they target the FPS console crowd but take what EVE players have to say more to heart. Not even a GM or Dev response up in here.


Fact is I see EVE/Dust GM's and Devs all up in a thread that belongs to a EVE person but rarely do they respond to the console gamers. If that's the case why continue to put this game on console if you wont even listen to or acknowledge us?!

Actually, it is slow. THere are as many that think its slow as there are fast. Even many of the anti-speeding up coalition don't think its fast. They just don't want it to get faster.

Not even talking Tribes fast, just make it MAG fast. Heck, I'd even take halfway between where we are now, and last build.

Muddy logic. Not related. You're talking about your preferred playstyle.

EDIT: Apologies, Sha Khan Clone. I read your post too fast, my bad, no muddiness at all.

Its faster than BF3 and equal to MAG in terms of speed for me

Regis, you're confusing the issue when you say 'slow movements' - what exactly do you think should be done to run/walk speed What do you think should be done specifically to strafe speed? And just so we cover all the movement bases, what about bunny hopping?

Fastest Redline record agaisnt defenders 1.5 minutes. Fastest record of redlining offensive 1 minute.

Well let me try to express the basic premise behind "slow movement = tactical".

If I'm trying to communicate with my team, the moment speed needs to be slow enough that the information given will correlate with the actual in-game situation long enough to be relevant to the people communicating. If movement speeds get too fast, you end up in a situation where by the time the information gets communicated, it's already wrong. If the enemy can run from A to B faster than a person can say "they are headed from A to B" then the game becomes a Halo style arena shooter. If I can't say "there's a tank headed out of their back spawn location on it's way to C" before a tank can make that trek, then what's the point in relating the info in the first place?

The people, such as myself, who WANT a slower pace are hoping for a series of set pieces where there is enough time to report positions and react to them in unison, rather than a game where DOING is quicker than SAYING. We want a pace where moving from position to position has consequence in terms of committed resources. As it stands currently, if the enemy team hacks all three consoles at once, I can already run from A, to B, to C and stop ALL THREE virus uploads before they finish. There's no tactical element there because the speed of movement vs. The size of the engagement area are mismatched for tactical play.

Redlining in this game is not hard at all lol! Especially if the other team is bad. So whats your point?

Well let me try to express the basic premise behind "slow movement = tactical".

If I'm trying to communicate with my team, the moment speed needs to be slow enough that the information given will correlate with the actual in-game situation long enough to be relevant to the people communicating. If movement speeds get too fast, you end up in a situation where by the time the information gets communicated, it's already wrong. If the enemy can run from A to B faster than a person can say "they are headed from A to B" then the game becomes a Halo style arena shooter. If I can't say "there's a tank headed out of their back spawn location on it's way to C" before a tank can make that trek, then what's the point in relating the info in the first place?

The people, such as myself, who WANT a slower pace are hoping for a series of set pieces where there is enough time to report positions and react to them in unison, rather than a game where DOING is quicker than SAYING. We want a pace where moving from position to position has consequence in terms of committed resources. As it stands currently, if the enemy team hacks all three consoles at once, I can already run from A, to B, to C and stop ALL THREE virus uploads before they finish. There's no tactical element there because the speed of movement vs. The size of the engagement area are mismatched for tactical play.

Making movements tactical can yeild very surprising results quickly. Also I cut 50% of the infomration loop out when possible reduces comm lag, for example I dont scream incomming at bravo, I just fly there and tell gunenrs to blow stuff up and report any other movments along the way.

I would suggest you wait until the maps are five square kilometers. If I estimates are right the plateau map is a little more than 1500 meters maybe at most I would say 2000 meters. I personally think speed is okay but it could get a bit faster and be better. In the end this game will be what CCP wants it to be, I think they may have slowed down the movement in order to.try to nail down the hit detection issues but that is just my rather uneducated guess.

Wanting to slow the movement speed down so that you can communicate better is a joke IMO. If you're on defense the map already does half the work for you because you already know where the enemy is coming from. Once you take the objectives on offense you are now playing defense because you don't want the enemy to take back the objectives like I said you shouldn't need a full paragraph to say the enemy is head to B from north, south, east, or west!

I recently got voice. Some commands I share with my two gunners.

Gunners, Foot mobiles
Gunners, Dropship
Gunners, Forge Gun
Get em.
Missile Launch!
Gunners, Tank
Gunners, LAV
Gunners, Obective (A, B, C)
Gunners, Sniper
Gunners, Drop Link
Gunners, Nanohive
Good Kill
Good Effect
Bail Bail Bail
Evading
Cover Fire
Open Up, Let them have it.
Capture (A,B,C,Structure)
Hostile(s) Location / Number / Type
Gunners, Eyes up
Drop off
Pickup?

My point was actually directed at baal roo. Your response doesn't address anything I said.

I am not for or against an increase in speed. Yes I know that is not really the purpose of this thread.

Tactics can and should be executed at any speed.

BTW tactical communications should take no longer than 3-5 seconds per burst of info.

As a veteran of the U.S. Army and two tours in Iraq I am very well aware of proper combat coms.

Larger maps which is confirmed(sorry my phone doesn't like to post links) will allow for more time to spot, report and engage the enemies regardless of movement speed.

As I said it wouldn't bother me in the least if they increased the speed a little bit I just don't think it should be some huge increase.

Slow movement makes tactics more important. If everyone can run and strafe and bunnyhop like hyperactive jackrabbits, certain tactics become less important and less viable.

You make a reference to real military training. How many times did you learn how to circle-strafe while shooting in basic? That would probably get you killed in real life--that's why people take cover and use tactics to make up their lack of superhuman speed and bullet-soaking capability.

Obviously using speed to your advantage is fine, but the point is that run'n'gun games don't typically emphasize tactics much whereas more realistic games with reasonable movement speed do.

Let me further clarify: I have no problem with scouts moving fast, since they're doing what in EVE would be called "speed-tanking", and their speed is necessary to keep them alive since they don't have much armor or shield. I also have no problem with sprint speed being fairly fast. It lets you get around quickly or have a chance of getting to cover while under fire. What I do have a problem with is circle strafing being a remotely effective technique as it's completely unrealistic and makes me feel like I'm back in the 90s playing Quake 3.

Cover should be necessary to keep you alive, not the ability to strafe faster than someone can aim. Maybe once they add mouse support this won't be an issue as any moderately skilled person will be able to aim faster than all but scouts can strafe.

LOL Okay I'll bite...

When in my post did I say we need circle strafing or that circle strafing is tactical? I never said it. Of course they don't teach us to circle strafe in the army as it would get you killed but that's real this is a "VIDEO GAME" if I wanted a military sim I would play ARMA2 or Operation Flashpoint or any of the other military sims out there. Lack of speed doesn't make a game anymore or any less tactical than a fast paced sh ooter. It's up to the people in the game to come up with and evolve tactics not base tactics off of speed. This "beta" isn't any less tactical than it was in the last build when speeds were faster!

I'll be honest that you sometimes get on my nerves, but you have a point. While quite a few people have issues with fast strafing speeds, it can't really be argued that the difference between the last two builds has really changed anything from a tactical standpoint. It basically just comes down to the feel of the gameplay.

For instance, I happen to enjoy a few matches of Halo every now and then. However, my enjoyment of such is somewhat curtailed by the circle-strafing and bunny-hopping mentioned in some posts of this thread. I mean, the fact that there is a Bumper-Jumper control scheme specifically to allow you to aim while bunny-hopping just grates on my nerves. That's part of why I like how jumping in Dust is tied to your stamina, and that you can't jump without sufficient stamina.

Most shooters out there have different elements that make them unique, and I play quite a few of them and enjoy those elements in each one. Its just that...when it comes to Dust, I think about the kind of tactics that are commonly used in Halo, and when I think about them in connection with this game, I find it hard to take that picture seriously. I think this game has a different tone, and the current state of gameplay fits that tone better. That is, of course, my opinion.

Meh I could care less about your nerves. On a serious note I'm not asking for Halo what I am asking for is fun fluid gameplay. Anything slower than BF3 is just not fun at all and it doesn't make me feel like the reckless super clone they say we are!

I do recall stating that such was my opinion, and not something you should have to agree with.

cool thread

Those that want slow movement speed probably don't know what to do when a player outplays them by strafing. Hold down R1 isn't going to get you a kill against a moving opponent who is firing back at you.

cool thread

Those that want slow movement speed probably don't know what to do when a player outplays them by strafing. Hold down R1 isn't going to get you a kill against a moving opponent who is firing back at you.

cool thread

Those that want slow movement speed probably don't know what to do when a player outplays them by strafing. Hold down R1 isn't going to get you a kill against a moving opponent who is firing back at you.

Honestly, I've had far too much experience with games like Tribes to be deterred by strafing. You should be able to hit your target no matter what they're doing. My only quarrel with circle-strafing is that it just throws off the feeling of immersion in most other games I play.

Yeah, immersion is a big part of it. I want to DUST battles to feel like real futuristic military battles might feel. Circle-strafing and bunny-hopping and all that nonsense kill that feel.

Also I finally get to say this... This game might not be for you because you want realism in a game where clones can pass memories to other clones in a scifi game. Scifi, futuristic and realism don't go very well together because then you might as well take all these fancy toys and drop suits and make a regular modern day shooter.

Yeah, screw realism! It's sci-fi--that means anything goes!

Let's have space-unicorns and have fire-breathing powers and dragon mounts! I want my gun to shoot big pink flaming marshmallows! Let's have talking animals too! Oh, and dinosaurs with lasers! Dinosaurs are neat!

Just because it's in the future and has more advanced technology means all rules for anything making sense go straight out the window, amirite?

Gameplay>Realism that being said something do need to feel real or at least believable. So simply running in circles in the middle of open ground, at least when there is a tank on the field, should be considered at the least a risky decision.

Realism up to a certain point is necessary or we might as go play the original Doom where don't even really have to aim.

Things like a weapons effective range and kick need to feel somewhat believable not entirely real because mostly these guns shoot hot plasma or other things that we don't have today.

^This I don't get who would think stagnant hold the line battles would be fun but circle strafing will make the gameplay a little to arcade like. Not asking for that at all but I don't want the latter either. Also if you go by the dev blogs they want us to be circle strafing killing machines. Remember the video welcome to New Eden part 2... They said we are reckless and we don't care if that's the mentality they want us clone soldiers to have then maybe we do need strafing to an extent. You can't be very reckless moving like a snail... But then again moving that slow in the open is kind of reckless in its own right.

Odd questions (hypothetical)

You obv want the speed of the game to be speeded up even more, so if the devs said ther would be no change would you quit?

Also just say the devs do say no change to standard moving speed but allow nanofibres to be added to dropsuit with the downfall that you lose armor for more speed would you be happy with that?

I actually want nanofibers

I do think it should be an option tbh

I would rarther have the ability to have mods to change various things than have the entire game changed because it doesnt suit my playstyle or what im used to or because this is how X games does it so you should also copy X game and do this

I actually want nanofibers

See, I think that's a good idea as well. Allow a player to trade armor hitpoints for a faster movement speed.

Yeah they will if it's done on %. Also consider that scouts currently have like 100 hp anyway, it'd become scout hit detection game. I'd like nano fibre added, but yeah, I already pretty much quit playing. I'm just hoping this build is the low point in the beta.

Btw, just something to think about on the reckless ideas front. Your owned by X corp. you are an assert. You'll follow orders or be deactivated. The game isn't the problem. It's the coward players I've had on my team for the few games I played today. had 4 guys on 1 tower earlier. That meant 8vs12 on the ground.

Tbh this game is going to suffer the same problem as MAG. People will join a game, not understand that all the turrets an clone bays are just extras, and that the letters are your only concern. We all know what Valor and Raven randoms are like...

Odd questions (hypothetical)

You obv want the speed of the game to be speeded up even more, so if the devs said ther would be no change would you quit?

Also just say the devs do say no change to standard moving speed but allow nanofibres to be added to dropsuit with the downfall that you lose armor for more speed would you be happy with that?

Now since a lot of people here like to use the "realism" argument being tactical is not about slow movement. Tactical movements are about small precise quick attacks "moving with a purpose" to achieve the larger goal. Not slow turtle paced movements across the battlefield. I can't tell you how many times it was drilled in our heads in basic... Move with a purpose or you will die! Execute the mission plan with a purpose or you will die! You have 10 minutes to assault this entrenchment. These teachings helped me get through 2 tours of duty!

Everything is done with a purpose. Also being tactical is about who has the better game plan a field commander should also be able to make changes on the fly and counter what ever the enemy may be doing. Being tactical is also about what fire team can execute there game plan the best and if they trust there battle to watch there back!

Mount training is also about being fast try clearing a building with xyz time while moving at the speeds in this game.



RANGE WALK PRIVATE!

I agree. Please move tactically so I can tactfully place a remote explosive under you.
Thanks in advance!

PS you are right. There is nothing like a Drill Instructor screaming at you to move with purpose. Honestly, I enjoyed basic so much, I almost wanted to aplly for the Instructor position.

English as much as I hyped this game back since 2010 yes I would not download the full game if they choose to leave the speeds of the current build. I rarely play now because of how boring the game is. Sure some like skilling up to earn that next level skill but it's really not impressive to me.

I'm Yes and No for nano fibers because I would rather everyone be on the same playing field. but at the same time it may work.

So basically you want the entire game speed changed or you will walk away?

But yet a reasonable alternative your still iffy on?

Put it this way if the game did get speeded up even tho im happy with it now i wouldnt walk away because it doesnt suit me, i would HTFU and adapt and die so to speak because i have no other FPS alternative to play and i like where DUST could be heading

Did you pay attention to the OP at all? It's not about the game being tactical or not being tactical it's about people confusing slow movement speeds makes the game more tactical. Dust or any shooter for that matter can be tactical with any movement speeds but slow speeds doesn't make a game MORE tactical!

What you say is 100% true, Regis. I think the issue is high strafe speed allows peeps to use and open field as cover. Lord know I'm a half-assed fps'er but more than once last build I waded into a mob 3-4 guys with my smg and came out alive. It's even happened a few times this build. That seems a little bit goofy, imo.