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For the people who confuse being tactical with slow movement!

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Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 08:34:00 - [1] - Quote Now since a lot of people here like to use the "realism" argument being tactical is not about slow movement. Tactical movements are about small precise quick attacks "moving with a purpose" to achieve the larger goal. Not slow turtle paced movements across the battlefield. I can't tell you how many times it was drilled in our heads in basic... Move with a purpose or you will die! Execute the mission plan with a purpose or you will die! You have 10 minutes to assault this entrenchment. These teachings helped me get through 2 tours of duty! Everything is done with a purpose. Also being tactical is about who has the better game plan a field commander should also be able to make changes on the fly and counter what ever the enemy may be doing. Being tactical is also about what fire team can execute there game plan the best and if they trust there battle to watch there back! Mount training is also about being fast try clearing a building with xyz time while moving at the speeds in this game. RANGE WALK PRIVATE!
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.08.04 08:43:00 - [2] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Now since a lot of people here like to use the "realism" argument being tactical is not about slow movement. Tactical movements are about small precise quick attacks "moving with a purpose" to achieve the larger goal. Not slow turtle paced movements across the battlefield. I can't tell you how many times it was drilled in our heads in basic... Move with a purpose or you will die! Execute the mission plan with a purpose or you will die! You have 10 minutes to assault this entrenchment. These teachings helped me get through 2 tours of duty! Everything is done with a purpose. Also being tactical is about who has the better game plan a field commander should also be able to make changes on the fly and counter what ever the enemy may be doing. Being tactical is also about what fire team can execute there game plan the best and if they trust there battle to watch there back! Mount training is also about being fast try clearing a building with xyz time while moving at the speeds in this game. RANGE WALK PRIVATE! Thank you. I felt like I should have already explained this, but after 10 pages of trying to explain simple fps mechanics to people, I get sick of talking about it. +1
Grit Breather BetaMax. 660	Posted - 2012.08.04 08:46:00 - [3] - Quote +1 to this thread. Good explanation. Crimson MoonV wrote: Thank you. I felt like I should have already explained this, but after 10 pages of trying to explain simple fps mechanics to people, I get sick of talking about it. +1 It's not about FPS mechanics. It's about proper military mechanics. Even if your intentions are all in the right place, you can't use the FPS mechanics thread for this kind of thing. It's basically a flaming thread that no good will come out of. That's why I've completely ignored it even though I have a lot to contibute.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.08.04 08:53:00 - [4] - Quote Grit Breather wrote: +1 to this thread. Good explanation. Crimson MoonV wrote: Thank you. I felt like I should have already explained this, but after 10 pages of trying to explain simple fps mechanics to people, I get sick of talking about it. +1 It's not about FPS mechanics. It's about proper military mechanics. Even if your intentions are all in the right place, you can't use the FPS mechanics thread for this kind of thing. It's basically a flaming thread that no good will come out of. That's why I've completely ignored it even though I have a lot to contibute. I said that because the slow speed=more tactics misconception started in the game mechanics thread. There were alot of good points made in that thread whether it was flame bait or not. You should give it a read if you haven't already. Its full of lols as well.
BluMage 18	Posted - 2012.08.04 09:24:00 - [5] - Quote Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Fast is life. Now, going too slow is just plan sloppy; you do have an abjective. But once the team work and full mike support kicks in it is going to be about syncing your actions with the man to your left and right. Range walk indeed; not a sprint nor a crawl, but a synced decisive action. 8¦¬8ä¦!
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 09:41:00 - [6] - Quote BluMage wrote: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Fast is life. Now, going too slow is just plan sloppy; you do have an abjective. But once the team work and full mike support kicks in it is going to be about syncing your actions with the man to your left and right. Range walk indeed; not a sprint nor a crawl, but a synced decisive action. 8¦¬8ä¦! Thank you! I still say regular walking speed in this game should be at a constant range walk. These guys are "super clones" after all the movement is way to slow to feel like you are moving with purpose. I feel like you have to sprint everywhere which is still to slow. I don't know about you but I could rock full battle rattle and out sprint these guys doing the Air born shuffle lol!
Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.08.04 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote i love when you guy try to be "tactical" you make better targets. its a game it dont realy work the same here death is a valid tactic. but if your having fun go for it. We need to get rid of the KDR so players wont be reluctant to use there own death as a battle tactic. the only people worried about there KDR are people that have to d#$k measure with everyone.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 10:30:00 - [8] - Quote Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: i love when you guy try to be "tactical" you make better targets. its a game it dont realy work the same. but if your having fun go for it. Never said it did in a video game! The way you see gameplay trailers and how they take objectives with such precise movement never really happens like that in a video game! What I said was meant to be an explanation of not confusing slow movement speeds with being tactical. Also to smack the realism approach in a video game out the window. If everyone wanted realism we would all be playing Operation Flashpoint or something. Even Bf3 kicks realism out the window guy gets shot you run over and play patty cake with his chest and he's alive again. In Operation Flashpoint you actually have to tourniquet a wound before you can try to revive or to keep someone from bleeding out. You want a deep tactical FPS that's it right there bullet drop is the best I've seen in a game actually very close to what you would expect to deal with in the real world. A bunch of skills doesn't make a game deep yes the people who play Dust may be interested in the EVE universe but that doesn't mean Dust should be EVE with ground troops. We don't need DPS'ers or tankers, at this rate you might as well add a necromonger skill raise the corpses of your dead enemies lol!
theQube Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 44	Posted - 2012.08.04 10:47:00 - [9] - Quote I really enjoyed Operation Flashpoint - both the original Bohemia Interactive version (and its ARMA sequels) and the Codemasters spin-offs Dragon Rising and Red River (the former being one of my all time fave console games). I've always wanted a very large scale war-sim for the console, but there's no mass market appeal apparently.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 10:56:00 - [10] - Quote theQube wrote: I really enjoyed Operation Flashpoint - both the original Bohemia Interactive version (and its ARMA sequels) and the Codemasters spin-offs Dragon Rising and Red River (the former being one of my all time fave console games). I've always wanted a very large scale war-sim for the console, but there's no mass market appeal apparently. I enjoyed the Operation Flashpoint games as well Qube. But you are right no one wants to play a game where you can die from one shot to the leg lol. I remember my first time playing I was shot in the leg and I bled to death I was like WTF! They would have to lower bullet damage a lot in the OF games. I love playing the co-op though with a group of friends!

Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 11:40:00 - [11] - Quote Bump because had this been a troll thread it would've been on page 5 by now!
Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.08.04 12:11:00 - [12] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: i love when you guy try to be "tactical" you make better targets. its a game it dont realy work the same. but if your having fun go for it. Never said it did in a video game! The way you see gameplay trailers and how they take objectives with such precise movement never really happens like that in a video game! only when everyones got comms off and there all trying to be the star of the show.
MUDMASTEI2 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 135	Posted - 2012.08.04 12:19:00 - [13] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: theQube wrote: I really enjoyed Operation Flashpoint - both the original Bohemia Interactive version (and its ARMA sequels) and the Codemasters spin-offs Dragon Rising and Red River (the former being one of my all time fave console games). I've always wanted a very large scale war-sim for the console, but there's no mass market appeal apparently. I enjoyed the Operation Flashpoint games as well Qube. But you are right no one wants to play a game where you can die from one shot to the leg lol. I remember my first time playing I was shot in the leg and I bled to death I was like WTF! They would have to lower bullet damage a lot in the OF games. I love playing the co-op though with a group of friends! OFP:DR had possibly the worst controls of any game ever.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.04 12:20:00 - [14] - Quote Game not slow unless your an heavy
theQube Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 44	Posted - 2012.08.04 12:44:00 - [15] - Quote MUDMASTEI2 wrote: OFP:DR had possibly the worst controls of any game ever. Not having played every game ever, I can't quite go as far to agree with you on that - but I will go as far as to say that it had the worst (or most convoluted) controls of any console game* I can remember playing... and yet, I still loved it. I'm very accepting of others criticism of it though, it certainly wasn't aimed at everyone! *Betas excluded.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.04 12:53:00 - [16] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Game not slow unless your an heavy It's the same speed as slow shooters. It is not and shouldn't become tribes pace though. If it's going to run like an arena game, make the speed arena pace :)
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.08.04 13:11:00 - [17] - Quote Just make it a little bit faster pleeeze or I could stop drinking so much coffee ..but thats not gona happen Feels sooo slow now I miss the old build where instict mattered
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.04 14:26:00 - [18] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Game not slow unless your an heavy It's the same speed as slow shooters. It is not and shouldn't become tribes pace though. If it's going to run like an arena game, make the speed arena pace :) Its not slow for me BF3 is alot slower and bulkier DUST is like a greyhound in comparision, i can play fast and it doesnt feel slugish
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.08.04 14:43:00 - [19] - Quote There's at least 3 definitions of speed being used and at least as many definitions of tactics with respect to DUST 514. S1) Regis's tactical speed - the speed at which a squad executes it's battleplan. S2) Walk/Sprint speed. S3) Strafing speed. These 3 speed are essentially independent and require three separate conversations to address the topics coherently. T1) Tactics as in the real-world military definition Regis gave us above. T2) Tactics as in what the game mechanics of any particular fps game demands for a player to be 'successful' in that game. T3) 'Tactical Shooter' as in CCP's marketing slogan - I'm assuming that really means strong teamplay/communication support AND combined arms. It's looking to me like employing both of those well will be the ONLY way to excel at this game, KDR notwithstanding. Same thing goes for these - three separate conversations if we're interested in having a reasonable discussion. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say at least 80% of the threadnaughts on this forum are about point number S3 above - strafing speed. It's counterproductive to confuse these issues, when we post we should always make it perfectly clear what we're talking about, it might save the forums another 10 pages of histrionics.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.08.04 15:47:00 - [20] - Quote ooookay I'll take 1.15x of S2 and just 1.08 of S3 and I think I have enuf S1 for now.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.08.04 15:53:00 - [21] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: ooookay I'll take 1.15x of S2 and just 1.08 of S3 and I think I have enuf S1 for now. Muddy logic. Not related. You're talking about your preferred playstyle. EDIT: Apologies, Sha Kharn Clone. I read your post too fast, my bad, no muddiness at all.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 16:00:00 - [22] - Quote MUDMASTEI2 wrote: Regis Mark V wrote: theQube wrote: I really enjoyed Operation Flashpoint - both the original Bohemia Interactive version (and its ARMA sequels) and the Codemasters spin-offs Dragon Rising and Red River (the former being one of my all time fave console games). I've always wanted a very large scale war-sim for the console, but there's no mass market appeal apparently. I enjoyed the Operation Flashpoint games as well Qube. But you are right no one wants to play a game where you can die from one shot to the leg lol. I remember my first time playing I was shot in the leg and I bled to death I was like WTF! They would have to lower bullet damage a lot in the OF games. I love playing the co-op though with a group of friends! OFP:DR had possibly the worst controls of any game ever. True but I enjoyed it!
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:06:00 - [23] - Quote Bump! Come on seriously all you people ho want slow movements so the game can be more tactical are ignoring this?! Why? Had I said something like lol EVEtards think slow movements means tacticool they are stupid Dust sucks you suck your mom sucks! You ass hats would be all up in here the thread would be on page 20 by now. This is the problem CCP has created they target the FPS console crowd but take what EVE players have to say more to heart. Not even a GM or Dev response up in here. Fact is I see EVE/Dust GM's and Devs all up in a thread that belongs to a EVE person but rarely do they respond to the console gamers. If that's the case why continue to put this game on console if you wont even listen to or acknowledge us?!
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:29:00 - [24] - Quote Like i said the game isnt slow
Mike Gunnzito 111	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:35:00 - [25] - Quote Actually, it is slow. THere are as many that think its slow as there are fast. Even many of the anti-speeding up coalition don't think its fast. They just don't want it to get faster. Not even talking Tribes fast, just make it MAG fast. Heck, I'd even take halfway between where we are now, and last build.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:38:00 - [26] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Bump! Come on seriously all you people ho want slow movements so the game can be more tactical are ignoring this?! Why? Had I said something like lol EVEtards think slow movements means tacticool they are stupid Dust sucks you suck your mom sucks! You ass hats would be all up in here the thread would be on page 20 by now. This is the problem CCP has created they target the FPS console crowd but take what EVE players have to say more to heart. Not even a GM or Dev response up in here. Fact is I see EVE/Dust GM's and Devs all up in a thread that belongs to a EVE person but rarely do they respond to the console gamers. If that's the case why continue to put this game on console if you wont even listen to or acknowledge us?! Regis, you're confusing the issue when you say 'slow movements' - what exactly do you think should be done to run/walk speed What do you think should be done specifically to strafe speed? And just so we cover all the movement bases, what about bunny hopping?
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:40:00 - [27] - Quote The easiest defence on forums Regis is silence. There's some wise saying about wise people being quiet until they know what to say. Trouble with forums. Also part of the reason the DEVs don't turn up in the FPS threads is we talk about game mechanics, strafe speed and try to discuss things, often in a rather unceremonious way. Then the 0.3 KDR crew turn up blabbering about KDR not mattering and tactics and all the other garbage that pisses us off. Then we generalise this as EvE players, troll away, they troll back picking silly holes in examples we provide. The DEVs also wan to see our feedback, they don't really give 2tosses if we know theirs. It'd be good for them to be a bit more of the community in that respect, instead of looking in. I don't get why they don't start troll bait threads, get our opinions and just delete inappropriate posts (I.e.language ect). I really think that'd be much more productive. Why didn't one of the CCP guys/girls start a thread at the beginning of the build called "what do you think of vehicles?" Stuff like that would be nice. Heck, they could even drop hints at how the mechanics work so we could give ideas how to fix things without making then write loads of new code. We have some smart people here, and CCP could do well to just ask.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:55:00 - [28] - Quote Mike Gunnzito wrote: Actually, it is slow. THere are as many that think its slow as there are fast. Even many of the anti-speeding up coalition don't think its fast. They just don't want it to get faster. Not even talking Tribes fast, just make it MAG fast. Heck, I'd even take halfway between where we are now, and last build. Its faster than BF3 and equal to MAG in terms of speed for me
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2012.08.04 19:24:00 - [29] - Quote I am mainly a FPS console player though I play BF3 and CS:GO on PC, I am open to most changes and tweaks in Beta to see where we go. Heck even swinging the pendulum to the other side would make for interesting testing and numbers for CCP to crunch. I think they do this in a way, with the REs looking to be over nerfed and movement and HMG and Swarms got nerfed maybe to much. The swarm doing no splash is a lil upsetting at times, should do enough for me to get some damage done but whatever not worried. On account of movement speed, what class do you want to move faster? Those pesky ballerina scouts run around pretty fast jumping and strafing with powerful SMGs or shotties, get annoying to kill, sprinting away when you get decent damage done and their lightning fast shield reps. Just seems if you want a fast build with movement, the scout is your go to. Now if you want everyone's movement speed bumped, that scout will get that much quicker, but everyone else will be that lil bit quicker too, so i guess it negates it?
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.08.04 19:43:00 - [30] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: ooookay I'll take 1.15x of S2 and just 1.08 of S3 and I think I have enuf S1 for now. Muddy logic. Not related. You're talking about your preferred playstyle. EDIT: Apologies, Sha Khan Clone. I read your post too fast, my bad, no muddiness at all. Hehe no prob.



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