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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Regis Mark V wrote:testguy242 wrote:Slow movement makes tactics more important. If everyone can run and strafe and bunnyhop like hyperactive jackrabbits, certain tactics become less important and less viable.
You make a reference to real military training. How many times did you learn how to circle-strafe while shooting in basic? That would probably get you killed in real life--that's why people take cover and use tactics to make up their lack of superhuman speed and bullet-soaking capability.
Obviously using speed to your advantage is fine, but the point is that run'n'gun games don't typically emphasize tactics much whereas more realistic games with reasonable movement speed do.
Let me further clarify: I have no problem with scouts moving fast, since they're doing what in EVE would be called "speed-tanking", and their speed is necessary to keep them alive since they don't have much armor or shield. I also have no problem with sprint speed being fairly fast. It lets you get around quickly or have a chance of getting to cover while under fire. What I do have a problem with is circle strafing being a remotely effective technique as it's completely unrealistic and makes me feel like I'm back in the 90s playing Quake 3.
Cover should be necessary to keep you alive, not the ability to strafe faster than someone can aim. Maybe once they add mouse support this won't be an issue as any moderately skilled person will be able to aim faster than all but scouts can strafe. LOL Okay I'll bite... When in my post did I say we need circle strafing or that circle strafing is tactical? I never said it. Of course they don't teach us to circle strafe in the army as it would get you killed but that's real this is a "VIDEO GAME" if I wanted a military sim I would play ARMA2 or Operation Flashpoint or any of the other military sims out there. Lack of speed doesn't make a game anymore or any less tactical than a fast paced sh ooter. It's up to the people in the game to come up with and evolve tactics not base tactics off of speed. This "beta" isn't any less tactical than it was in the last build when speeds were faster! I'll be honest that you sometimes get on my nerves, but you have a point. While quite a few people have issues with fast strafing speeds, it can't really be argued that the difference between the last two builds has really changed anything from a tactical standpoint. It basically just comes down to the feel of the gameplay.
For instance, I happen to enjoy a few matches of Halo every now and then. However, my enjoyment of such is somewhat curtailed by the circle-strafing and bunny-hopping mentioned in some posts of this thread. I mean, the fact that there is a Bumper-Jumper control scheme specifically to allow you to aim while bunny-hopping just grates on my nerves. That's part of why I like how jumping in Dust is tied to your stamina, and that you can't jump without sufficient stamina.
Most shooters out there have different elements that make them unique, and I play quite a few of them and enjoy those elements in each one. Its just that...when it comes to Dust, I think about the kind of tactics that are commonly used in Halo, and when I think about them in connection with this game, I find it hard to take that picture seriously. I think this game has a different tone, and the current state of gameplay fits that tone better. That is, of course, my opinion. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 00:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Regis Mark V wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Regis Mark V wrote:testguy242 wrote:Slow movement makes tactics more important. If everyone can run and strafe and bunnyhop like hyperactive jackrabbits, certain tactics become less important and less viable.
You make a reference to real military training. How many times did you learn how to circle-strafe while shooting in basic? That would probably get you killed in real life--that's why people take cover and use tactics to make up their lack of superhuman speed and bullet-soaking capability.
Obviously using speed to your advantage is fine, but the point is that run'n'gun games don't typically emphasize tactics much whereas more realistic games with reasonable movement speed do.
Let me further clarify: I have no problem with scouts moving fast, since they're doing what in EVE would be called "speed-tanking", and their speed is necessary to keep them alive since they don't have much armor or shield. I also have no problem with sprint speed being fairly fast. It lets you get around quickly or have a chance of getting to cover while under fire. What I do have a problem with is circle strafing being a remotely effective technique as it's completely unrealistic and makes me feel like I'm back in the 90s playing Quake 3.
Cover should be necessary to keep you alive, not the ability to strafe faster than someone can aim. Maybe once they add mouse support this won't be an issue as any moderately skilled person will be able to aim faster than all but scouts can strafe. LOL Okay I'll bite... When in my post did I say we need circle strafing or that circle strafing is tactical? I never said it. Of course they don't teach us to circle strafe in the army as it would get you killed but that's real this is a "VIDEO GAME" if I wanted a military sim I would play ARMA2 or Operation Flashpoint or any of the other military sims out there. Lack of speed doesn't make a game anymore or any less tactical than a fast paced sh ooter. It's up to the people in the game to come up with and evolve tactics not base tactics off of speed. This "beta" isn't any less tactical than it was in the last build when speeds were faster! I'll be honest that you sometimes get on my nerves, but you have a point. While quite a few people have issues with fast strafing speeds, it can't really be argued that the difference between the last two builds has really changed anything from a tactical standpoint. It basically just comes down to the feel of the gameplay. For instance, I happen to enjoy a few matches of Halo every now and then. However, my enjoyment of such is somewhat curtailed by the circle-strafing and bunny-hopping mentioned in some posts of this thread. I mean, the fact that there is a Bumper-Jumper control scheme specifically to allow you to aim while bunny-hopping just grates on my nerves. That's part of why I like how jumping in Dust is tied to your stamina, and that you can't jump without sufficient stamina. Most shooters out there have different elements that make them unique, and I play quite a few of them and enjoy those elements in each one. Its just that...when it comes to Dust, I think about the kind of tactics that are commonly used in Halo, and when I think about them in connection with this game, I find it hard to take that picture seriously. I think this game has a different tone, and the current state of gameplay fits that tone better. That is, of course, my opinion. Meh I could care less about your nerves. On a serious note I'm not asking for Halo what I am asking for is fun fluid gameplay. Anything slower than BF3 is just not fun at all and it doesn't make me feel like the reckless super clone they say we are! I do recall stating that such was my opinion, and not something you should have to agree with. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 05:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:cool thread Those that want slow movement speed probably don't know what to do when a player outplays them by strafing. Hold down R1 isn't going to get you a kill against a moving opponent who is firing back at you. Honestly, I've had far too much experience with games like Tribes to be deterred by strafing. You should be able to hit your target no matter what they're doing. My only quarrel with circle-strafing is that it just throws off the feeling of immersion in most other games I play. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 14:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Odd questions (hypothetical)
You obv want the speed of the game to be speeded up even more, so if the devs said ther would be no change would you quit?
Also just say the devs do say no change to standard moving speed but allow nanofibres to be added to dropsuit with the downfall that you lose armor for more speed would you be happy with that? I actually want nanofibers See, I think that's a good idea as well. Allow a player to trade armor hitpoints for a faster movement speed. |
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