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Craig Greenway
21
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Posted - 2012.07.15 10:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :) |
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I belive so, as CCP want us to be able to test the higher levels of stuff easier
What they dont want, is come release for people to have the ability to be in prototype gear within the first 2 days. That's something they want to be an achievement, possibly after a month or more of playing. |
Southern1Cross
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Craig Greenway wrote:I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :)
wow really? yeah thats not good beta players will absolutely DEEEEEEESTROY all the newcomers on release |
crazy space
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
well yeah dust is a game you play for a long time.
right now it could be evenm higher than 4 times! |
Shinigami6 Test
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2012.07.15 11:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours |
James Trendall
Doomheim
110
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Posted - 2012.07.15 11:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours
CCP have made EVE in to a 9+year game and its still going strong. If dust was to conform to the majority of console shooters and make the game easy to reach max lvl's for you to unlock all the stuff you want within a few weeks you wont have much more enjoyment left for the game to give.
I agree that we are all used to 100+k SP then dropping down to around20k after a few games but think of it as a challenge to get that proto gear you so desperately want. |
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours
The point is this isnt meant to be a game you max out in a month. It's one you're meant to commit to, spending years playing (like they said, to max out every skill currently will take around 7 years, when the SP gain is put to normal levels).
Edit: You 'can' try out every playstlye if you wish. Nothings stopping you. Don't expect to be a master at them all any time soon though. This is where 'Jack of all trades, master of none' comes in to play. And don't worry, everyone will be in the same boat as you The point is that, if someone specilises, thats great. They can fill a niche...but they're going to need help otherwise to take on people who specilised in a 'counter' to their own specialty. Jack of all trades people will be just as important and specilised guys. |
Shinigami6 Test
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2012.07.15 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
James Trendall wrote:Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours CCP have made EVE in to a 9+year game and its still going strong. If dust was to conform to the majority of console shooters and make the game easy to reach max lvl's for you to unlock all the stuff you want within a few weeks you wont have much more enjoyment left for the game to give. I agree that we are all used to 100+k SP then dropping down to around20k after a few games but think of it as a challenge to get that proto gear you so desperately want.
Well, i dont play eve so i dont know how it works, but i believe that you can make a game last for years without the unlocking equipment concept. i.e. you can make the game very long lasting with concepts like wars, conquering, clans etc. all of which are planned for dust. so even if you unlock everything early on, you still have several things to look forward to.
also, the way the gear is setup, proto gear + skills are way to unbalanced when compared to the earlier gear. so balance is another matter that needs to be considered. you need to make it so new players are comfortable too |
KryptixX
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
321
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shinigami6 Test wrote:James Trendall wrote:Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours CCP have made EVE in to a 9+year game and its still going strong. If dust was to conform to the majority of console shooters and make the game easy to reach max lvl's for you to unlock all the stuff you want within a few weeks you wont have much more enjoyment left for the game to give. I agree that we are all used to 100+k SP then dropping down to around20k after a few games but think of it as a challenge to get that proto gear you so desperately want. Well, i dont play eve so i dont know how it works, but i believe that you can make a game last for years without the unlocking equipment concept. i.e. you can make the game very long lasting with concepts like wars, conquering, clans etc. all of which are planned for dust. so even if you unlock everything early on, you still have several things to look forward to. also, the way the gear is setup, proto gear + skills are way to unbalanced when compared to the earlier gear. so balance is another matter that needs to be considered. you need to make it so new players are comfortable too
I think you need to do a little research about the game..
|
Cless Vallein
Teknomen
37
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Posted - 2012.07.15 11:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would almost assume there's going to be more gear than what's shown as well being that usually you have to go from lvl 2 in some skills to lvl 4 just to get the advanced suits. I figure this as a possibility to break up the monotony that will come from playing to gain reduced SP. CCP is pretty smart about things so we'll see how it all unfolds |
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Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.07.15 11:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
There are plenty of other threads on this forum regarding balance for new players against prototype gear including things like making the highsec areas standard equipment only and restricting the prototype gear to nullsec, let's not turn this thread into another one, go discuss in a relevant post.
On topic, yes we are earning SP at an accelerated rate as posted above to test the more advanced gear without waiting months before people can use it to test. It's taken me 2 weekends to skill up my marauder with around 11,500 EHP and prototype turrets it is maxed out in every way possible, I need to move on to something else. I think that should take close to 6 months of specialization in HAV's to get such a powerful machine. I've earnt about 8 million SP in 2 weekends where it took me 4 years to earn 51 million in Eve, that's 12 million a year and a maxed HAV in 8 months, that seems reasonable to me.
If you ask me a quarter is still too much, by my reckoning 1/8th to 1/16th would be about right for my HAV training but this is what balance is all about, maybe your assault or AV route isn't balanced against the HAV route, I think 3 to 4 months fairly intense play to max out an assault suit and maybe 4 to 5 months for a heavy etc.
It has to take so much longer though, otherwise your new players will come across a good tank and jump in their militia swarm launchers and take it out with some good team work only to be met with the same guy in his prototype heavy with prototype HMG or prototype assault with AR and get massacred again just cos he's been playing for a couple of months and got everything maxed out. |
Los Silencio
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2012.07.15 12:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I for one am perfectly fine with playing a game with years of potential. |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
I heard from the "Welcome to the long beta weekend" announcement that all character assets. Im assuming skills and isk will be "RESET" not deleted. So could this mean that we will still have all of our skill points to spend at launch. |
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:I heard from the "Welcome to the long beta weekend" announcement that all character assets. Im assuming skills and isk will be "RESET" not deleted. So could this mean that we will still have all of our skill points to spend at launch.
Reset as in the characters will be reset, as in we'll go back to 0 Not reimbursed, that only applies to AUR/promotional items |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:I heard from the "Welcome to the long beta weekend" announcement that all character assets. Im assuming skills and isk will be "RESET" not deleted. So could this mean that we will still have all of our skill points to spend at launch. The tone and context of most of the posts on the subject would seem to indicate everything is getting wiped. What's being reset are your PURCHASES, i.e. Merc Pack, Aurum, etc. It wouldn't due to have a legion of uber-characters in the game at launch, from just a couple months of testing, while the new players from launch would then be stuck playing for literally years to match that.
That said, don't fall into the mistake of thinking you can't "catch up" or you'll "never be as good" as the oldbie. The glory of the skill system in EVE and now in Dust is that you can't bring all of your skills to bear at once. The player that's been around longer is more versatile, he can do more things, but not all at the same time. By specializing, you can match that 9 year old eve character in ONE AREA in just 2 to 3 months. It's remarkably well-balanced, and is certainly far better than a level 80 ganking a level 10 that never stood a chance. |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well if you read the post it states Attributes and Assets. SO im assuming Attributes is your skillpoints and assests are your items. Just putting that out there. Go look for yourself it in the general discussion board. IM also assuming that they meant reset as in your skills will be reset but you will keep your maximum number of skill points to spend over again. Its all conjecture but i hope im right. Someone said that right now we are earning skills at a really fast rate but bro if you make only like 5000 SP per game it will take forever to get to that proto suit not to mention that you still have other skills needing to be invested in. Its not like oh 1mill SP no prob you can get there if you try, but oh wait you still have a **** ton of other skills to get to. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Well if you read the post it states Attributes and Assets. SO im assuming Attributes is your skillpoints and assests are your items. Just putting that out there. Go look for yourself it in the general discussion board. Which further backs the context of "reset" meaning "reset to that of a new character," just like the wipe we already had between the last build and the E3 build. Your real-money-purchased items (aurum, merc pack items; not the things you bought WITH the aurum) will be restored, but all stats, skills, assets, etc. will be whatever they decide new characters will start with at launch. |
Arceus Evoxazon
Hikahotaru
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Well if you read the post it states Attributes and Assets. SO im assuming Attributes is your skillpoints and assests are your items. Just putting that out there. Go look for yourself it in the general discussion board. I can't read. What does it say? |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dont be a smart ass. I was just pointing something out. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Dont be a smart ass. I was just pointing something out. I always say, "better a smart ass, than a dumb ass" |
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Arceus Evoxazon
Hikahotaru
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Dont be a smart ass. I was just pointing something out. Don't worry. I was just pointing something out too. Look! We have things in common already! |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
You know everyone that is saying the reset is so beta participants dont have an unfair advantage are just contradicting the game. I mean if we have so much of a head start now how do you think the newbies who start playing dust a year from now will feel. It will be impossible for them to even kill anything. Especially with the huge damage boosters that weapon skills give right now. Also all the eve players will start giving their characters isk or at least rigging contracts so who has the unfair advantage now. This game is all about unfair advantages thats what makes the eve universe. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:You know everyone that is saying the reset is so beta participants dont have an unfair advantage are just contradicting the game. I mean if we have so much of a head start now how do you think the newbies who start playing dust a year from now will feel. It will be impossible for them to even kill anything. Especially with the huge damage boosters that weapon skills give right now. Also all the eve players will start giving their characters isk or at least rigging contracts so who has the unfair advantage now. This game is all about unfair advantages thats what makes the eve universe. I already shot down this fallacy. Please learn to read. There's a difference between a couple years of normal gain, and a relatively even distribution across the playerbase, and a collection of players that, over the course of just a couple months of beta, achieved 4+ YEARS worth of gains, and thus will have a massive gap between the testers and the entirety of the rest of the community.
In EVE, we all earned our stuff the old fashioned way. That new player can't use a BS on day one, but guess what? He doesn't need to, there are other people that can and he can fill other roles that he DOES ahve the skills to. After a few months of specialization, he can match that launch player in ONE area, because you can't bring ALL of your skills to bear at the same time, as it's based on your current ship and loadout what skills will apply. Older players are more versatile, that's all.
If you launch with a group of players 4 years ahead of the rest, no one else HAS those higher end items to counter the other guys with the higher-end items. You don't have that relatively normalized distribution across the player base, but instead a massive gap. It would make it very difficult to function.
The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. You simply continue to fall into the "never catch up" fallacy that many newer EVE players do as well. They are and always have been wrong, just as you are. But without a wipe here, that normal distribution and the presence of people able to use the needed counters won't exist, and thus one of the big balances (rock-paper-scissors) won't apply at launch (or possibly ever). |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Southern1Cross wrote:Craig Greenway wrote:I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :) wow really? yeah thats not good beta players will absolutely DEEEEEEESTROY all the newcomers on release
GOOD WELCOME TO EVE MOTHERFUCKERS !!!!! HOPE YOU LIKE YOUR MEAT SUITS YOU'LL BE ALL WEARING FOR THE SHARK POOL !!!! |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
781
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Southern1Cross wrote:Craig Greenway wrote:I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :) wow really? yeah thats not good beta players will absolutely DEEEEEEESTROY all the newcomers on release GOOD WELCOME TO EVE MOTHERFUCKERS !!!!! HOPE YOU LIKE YOUR MEAT SUITS YOU'LL BE ALL WEARING FOR THE SHARK POOL !!!!
I'm gonna name my dropsuit 'Lady Gaga' |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Im trying to tell you this isnt EVE anymore ok. This game is supposed to tailor to a less hardcore audience. This is that game that people who like eve but just cant get into play. This is Eve vanilla version. This game is meant for us sappy ass FPS players ok. At least thats what it was supposed to be. A way to gain a larger player audience and it takes more than just turning EVE into an FPS. You need to make a system that works for dem FPS softies. CCP will soon find this out as im sure. Theyll soon come to find that all their dust players are mostly EVE players as well and not the new audience they hoped for. When i started playing this beta the first thought in my head was "CCP sure knows how to make a great game just not a great FPS" AND I PLAY ALOT OF FPS games. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
673
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours At leaste you will get a sense of achievement, I mean look at bf3......I've put in 400+ hours and unlocked everything, while people who have put in 200 hrs have the same amount of unlocks, or they buy their unlocks. I welcome dust for being so epic, in terms of ranking up/unlocks etc. I have no problem with putting in ridiculous hours for a dropsuit etc |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Im trying to tell you this isnt EVE anymore ok. This game is supposed to tailor to a less hardcore audience. This is that game that people who like eve but just cant get into play. This is Eve vanilla version. This game is meant for us sappy ass FPS players ok. At least thats what it was supposed to be. A way to gain a larger player audience and it takes more than just turning EVE into an FPS. You need to make a system that works for dem FPS softies. CCP will soon find this out as im sure. Theyll soon come to find that all their dust players are mostly EVE players as well and not the new audience they hoped for. When i started playing this beta the first thought in my head was "CCP sure knows how to make a great game just not a great FPS" AND I PLAY ALOT OF FPS games. And I'm trying to explain to you that you're wrong on every point, and that your assertions would be actively detrimental to THIS game.
They're going to find that the ones that stick around are going to be the EVE players anyway. Console kiddies aren't known for attention spans that last past the next big launch date. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
673
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:Im trying to tell you this isnt EVE anymore ok. This game is supposed to tailor to a less hardcore audience. This is that game that people who like eve but just cant get into play. This is Eve vanilla version. This game is meant for us sappy ass FPS players ok. At least thats what it was supposed to be. A way to gain a larger player audience and it takes more than just turning EVE into an FPS. You need to make a system that works for dem FPS softies. CCP will soon find this out as im sure. Theyll soon come to find that all their dust players are mostly EVE players as well and not the new audience they hoped for. When i started playing this beta the first thought in my head was "CCP sure knows how to make a great game just not a great FPS" AND I PLAY ALOT OF FPS games. And I'm trying to explain to you that you're wrong on every point, and that your assertions would be actively detrimental to THIS game. They're going to find that the ones that stick around are going to be the EVE players anyway. Console kiddies aren't known for attention spans that last past the next big launch date. Not all Console people are 'kiddies', I'm 30....and just as hardcore as your regular PC player (respect to PC)........I still even play rainbow 6 Vegas 1 + 2, they were released 5/6 years ago |
BAD FURRY
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:Southern1Cross wrote:Craig Greenway wrote:I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :) wow really? yeah thats not good beta players will absolutely DEEEEEEESTROY all the newcomers on release GOOD WELCOME TO EVE MOTHERFUCKERS !!!!! HOPE YOU LIKE YOUR MEAT SUITS YOU'LL BE ALL WEARING FOR THE SHARK POOL !!!! I'm gonna name my dropsuit 'Lady Gaga'
im not kidding this is EvE online were playing for there SOV ! this is and has to be HARD to the CORE even for the console kids im not risking my ISK and SOV i worked for to some scrubs that there only mmo they may have played was WoW or runescape as a eve player i know why Goon is not going to asking MAG gamers or the other scrubs COD gamers to fight for them for there sov ! its not ego for the ones that hate goon or are thinking its why they want talk to you or higher you! its cuss like most eve crops they dont trust K/D whores they WANT **** DONE RITE THE 1st TIME !!! and they dont care at all for YOU !!! YOU should care for all about THEM !!! its there sov ! not yours its there's ISK on the line Not yours ! yes EVE IS HARD CORE AND SO WILL DUST 514 ....(" tell the Noobs for me if i die be for dust comes out Enjoy the swim ! there's a T-Rex w8ing for you on land !") |
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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:Im trying to tell you this isnt EVE anymore ok. This game is supposed to tailor to a less hardcore audience. This is that game that people who like eve but just cant get into play. This is Eve vanilla version. This game is meant for us sappy ass FPS players ok. At least thats what it was supposed to be. A way to gain a larger player audience and it takes more than just turning EVE into an FPS. You need to make a system that works for dem FPS softies. CCP will soon find this out as im sure. Theyll soon come to find that all their dust players are mostly EVE players as well and not the new audience they hoped for. When i started playing this beta the first thought in my head was "CCP sure knows how to make a great game just not a great FPS" AND I PLAY ALOT OF FPS games. And I'm trying to explain to you that you're wrong on every point, and that your assertions would be actively detrimental to THIS game. They're going to find that the ones that stick around are going to be the EVE players anyway. Console kiddies aren't known for attention spans that last past the next big launch date. Not all Console people are 'kiddies', I'm 30....and just as hardcore as your regular PC player (respect to PC)........I still even play rainbow 6 Vegas 1 + 2, they were released 5/6 years ago I went back and played the first Red Faction from PS2 the other day. I go back, too. I also played MAG for quite a while, as well as the first two Resistance games (haven't had a chance to mess with 3 yet, and i still need to finish uncharted 3, gears of war 2, ME2, and others; active duty military + college courses = large backlog).
I simply made a generalization. The vast majority of console players do not stick around long. They play a game until the next one launches, then they disappear (hell, makers of sports games depend on this fact, that's how they can charge 60 quid each year with the only change being the roster, and while the last year's version instantly drops to 10 quid used).
I'm 26. I have a PS3 (launch model, so it plays my PS2 games and I could sell my PS2), a 360, a Wii, a 3DS, a PSP, a Vita, a reasonably high-end PC (looking into a hexacore, another 4GB of RAM, and replacing my GTX260 with a 590). I play them all. I'm also a backer for the Ouya.
The generalization still holds, in spite of the exceptions like us. |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out. |
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 13:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:You know everyone that is saying the reset is so beta participants dont have an unfair advantage are just contradicting the game. I mean if we have so much of a head start now how do you think the newbies who start playing dust a year from now will feel. It will be impossible for them to even kill anything. Especially with the huge damage boosters that weapon skills give right now. Also all the eve players will start giving their characters isk or at least rigging contracts so who has the unfair advantage now. This game is all about unfair advantages thats what makes the eve universe.
Theres a difference though. The skillpoints etc earned 1 year after release are done so using the release environment. Our skill points earned now are done in the beta environment, with bonus's, bugs, easy exploits and so on and so forth On release every game does a stat wipe, a. To reeven the playing field. b. make sure servers are synced properly. c. because it's release, i.e. the time when the game is considered 'a game'. Allowing beta players to keep all of their stats, XP and items gained over months of closed testing will give them an advanatge which is just as bad as a Pay to Win model really (altho, P2W 'does' give everyone the chance).
Seriosuly, if you're going to be butt hurt about losing your stats, I suggest you just stop playing now, and wait for release like all of the people who arn't fortunate to be in the beta with us right now. |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 14:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Im not but hurt about losing my stats. Im butt hurt about the system being unfair to noobs. AND IM TRYING TO TELL YOU. That yes we will have a slower SP increase, but this also applies to new players that start after a year from launch and it will take them a year to get to your level by which time youll have two years under your belt. See the math there.
LIKE I SAID you cant mix an fps and mmo. MMO is stat based FPS is supposed to be skill based you cant jsut allow people who have played longer to have an advantage. It should be so that a nooby player could kick a high level players butt if he has more skill. Granted if it is a one on one situation both facing each other.
W/E this is my last post about this. I really enjoy dust as it is but ive played alot of FPS games in my 30 years alive and I can tell you as is, its not a very good FPS, its too unfair for new players and that cant happen in an fps. And im talking about new players 1-2 years from now. NOT at launch. I gave you a solution make sure veteran players dont get mixed with noobies in the matchmaking system but find dont listen. I THOUGHT this game was to bring in a new audience to get more people to join the EVE universe but apparently its just another EVE for EVE players and you seem to not be very friendly to us as you call "Soffie" COD players. I once tried to get into EVE and i really wanted to like it but it asked for too much time and dedication to learn so i never did. Then i heard about DUST and how it would allow for an experience where people who didnt get EVE would have a chance to be apart of your world but apparently you dont want us. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
296
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 14:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Although I get the feeling CCP is still working out the balance issues I think their intention is that passive SP accumulation will be greater than bonuses received in matches. Time may be the biggest grind like in EVE.
In 1 vs 1 an older and more skilled player should win. Newer players should be able to find a role in supporting a team and become competent in that role in a fairly short amount of time. |
Sw3RvE
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
well, this is where headshot bonus points should come in handy but i dont know what CCP thinks about this idea. if you hit someone in the head 1 or more times there should be some type of bonus SP reward.
Im only getting the 1.5x SP bonus. idk what yall are smoking with the 4x. |
daniel philp
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Every thing will reset at release so dont get all upset yet kids |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out.
Yea I have to agree with a few of your points...
I am pretty scared for what will happen when this game relaeses as its F2P and not a subscriptiongame that can be supported by 40k concurrent users (EVE concurrent, not total).
Also for a game claiming to be joining the "E-Sport" community; do not think there was up to a 50% damage, shield, amrmor, etc difference between everyone on MLG depending if you just bought the new HALO or still a HALO 1 veteran....
Never a bad thing to have more people play your game, espeically since you are already restricted to the PS3 market; don't make it even worse by restricting it even more |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 16:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Yeah like i said im not gonna hide it. Im not an Eve online player, but Ive always wanted to join in but in all honesty i just dont have the attention span and determination to play just one game. As the Eve players say there is no such thing as a casual EVE player. Then i heard about DUST 514 and thought now i had a chance to be apart of the EVE universe but its turning out to be just another EVE but with guns. Ill still play from day one but still what im worried about is not about myself but for new players.
My feelings are that i REALLY want DUST to be a success and not another niche game like EVE. Thats the truth. Now EVE is a really good MMO but even with all its hardcore players thats just it they are mostly all hardcore players. With DUST we have a chance to bring in fresh blood sometimes people who arent all that good at games but its better for that.
Im also not very happy with the response from EVE players towards us non-EVE players. Not everyone whos interested in DUST has played EVE, me for example. And we want to play DUST because its an FPS but the reaction from most veterans is that we suck and need to go back to COD. One person even said that they would hate for newbies to join because they dont want to spend hard earned isk on new players and relying on them to capture important planets. It just makes me upset that the reaction towards new people joining the CCP ranks is so volatile. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 16:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out. You're putting words in their mouth. They never said anything about it being hardcore being the issue. They simply said they wanted to get more than the typical EVE audience (i.e. space and all the mechanics that make up EVE.) None of their statements preclude a deep and complex skill system, consequences, a hardcore experience, or anything else we're seeing here. Nothing they've said precludes the need for teamwork, supports the "can't compete" fallacy you and others seem to subscribe to (and many of the newbies in EVE that don't comprehend how the skill system works erroneously believe too). Pick something, specialize, and you'll be the equal of that 10 year player in that one area within about 2-3 months (maybe days or weeks here, since you get bonus SP just for playing). Also, none of those damage bonuses do you a damn bit of good if you can't hit your target, making skill the more important factor. Wanna know my usual loadouts? Militia gear + the merc pack drop suit and SMG. I haven't used a single consumable, average top 3 in most of my matches, and generally have a K/D of around 1.4 (overall is down around 1.05 due to some bad matches and the fact that controllers suck for FPS games.)
This is in spite of all the people with higher skills from having more time to play than I do, and using much better gear.
Matchmaking is 1) a bad joke in almost all cases, and 2) completely antithetical to this game's concept. All well and good for the high-sec stuff, which they said would be NPC contracts (you could theoretically work a matchmaking system into it and still let you work for the desired factions), but is completely unworkable in low- and null-sec.
Furthermore, the beauty of the skill system, and what you're some fantastically wrong about, is that it PREVENTS it turning into a "level 80 gankfest," as explained above and in other posts. I'm sorry it's too much for you. WoW and CoD are over there -->> |
|
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 16:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Im not but hurt about losing my stats. Im butt hurt about the system being unfair to noobs. AND IM TRYING TO TELL YOU. That yes we will have a slower SP increase, but this also applies to new players that start after a year from launch and it will take them a year to get to your level by which time youll have two years under your belt. See the math there.
LIKE I SAID you cant mix an fps and mmo. MMO is stat based FPS is supposed to be skill based you cant jsut allow people who have played longer to have an advantage. It should be so that a nooby player could kick a high level players butt if he has more skill. Granted if it is a one on one situation both facing each other.
W/E this is my last post about this. I really enjoy dust as it is but ive played alot of FPS games in my 30 years alive and I can tell you as is, its not a very good FPS, its too unfair for new players and that cant happen in an fps. And im talking about new players 1-2 years from now. NOT at launch. I gave you a solution make sure veteran players dont get mixed with noobies in the matchmaking system but find dont listen. I THOUGHT this game was to bring in a new audience to get more people to join the EVE universe but apparently its just another EVE for EVE players and you seem to not be very friendly to us as you call "Soffie" COD players. I once tried to get into EVE and i really wanted to like it but it asked for too much time and dedication to learn so i never did. Then i heard about DUST and how it would allow for an experience where people who didnt get EVE would have a chance to be apart of your world but apparently you dont want us. You can mix them, and it's been done to great effect in the past (see PlanetSide in its first year or two; overpowered vets weren't what killed it, Sony listening to whiners like you and destroying game balance is).
Yes, we'll have slower SP gains, but if you DON"T wipe then it won't take them a year to "catch up," it'll take them FOUR YEARS, or even more if you used SP boosters, because the SP we got was 4x or more what the end rate will be. That's not even counting the ridiculous SP you can get from exploiting bugs in the beta (which you're ENCOURAGED to do, to figure out how they work, and report them so they can be fixed).
I've played a lot of FPS games too, and as an FPS, it works great so far. Some performance and handling tweaks, fixes to the vehicle controls sure, but the core mechanics work just fine. Your problem is that it's not CoD. That's your problem, not the problem of those of us looking for a good game with interesting, unique mechanics. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 16:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Yeah like i said im not gonna hide it. Im not an Eve online player, but Ive always wanted to join in but in all honesty i just dont have the attention span and determination to play just one game. As the Eve players say there is no such thing as a casual EVE player. Then i heard about DUST 514 and thought now i had a chance to be apart of the EVE universe but its turning out to be just another EVE but with guns. Ill still play from day one but still what im worried about is not about myself but for new players.
My feelings are that i REALLY want DUST to be a success and not another niche game like EVE. Thats the truth. Now EVE is a really good MMO but even with all its hardcore players thats just it they are mostly all hardcore players. With DUST we have a chance to bring in fresh blood sometimes people who arent all that good at games but its better for that.
Im also not very happy with the response from EVE players towards us non-EVE players. Not everyone whos interested in DUST has played EVE, me for example. And we want to play DUST because its an FPS but the reaction from most veterans is that we suck and need to go back to COD. One person even said that they would hate for newbies to join because they dont want to spend hard earned isk on new players and relying on them to capture important planets. It just makes me upset that the reaction towards new people joining the CCP ranks is so volatile. The fact that you're not an EVE player shows immensely, because you're illustrating a complete and total lack of any understanding of the skill mechanics or its nuances whatsoever.
There's also tons of casual players in EVE (hell, I'd be considered a casual these days, with how little time I have to invest between work and uni). You're welcome to cower in high-sec and stick to the NPC-generated matches, or even the PvE content that will be coming.
Our reaction that you need to return to the kiddy games you're accustomed to is due to your blatant lack of comprehension as to what's going on. You spout off noob talking points that aren't and have never been true of EVE and are even less so here. You scream about imbalance that doesn't exist or is easily compensated for by teamwork and filling the roles that are needed. It mostly boils down to talking about things you just don't understand. |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 16:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out. You're putting words in their mouth. They never said anything about it being hardcore being the issue. They simply said they wanted to get more than the typical EVE audience (i.e. space and all the mechanics that make up EVE.) None of their statements preclude a deep and complex skill system, consequences, a hardcore experience, or anything else we're seeing here. Nothing they've said precludes the need for teamwork, supports the "can't compete" fallacy you and others seem to subscribe to (and many of the newbies in EVE that don't comprehend how the skill system works erroneously believe too). Pick something, specialize, and you'll be the equal of that 10 year player in that one area within about 2-3 months (maybe days or weeks here, since you get bonus SP just for playing). Also, none of those damage bonuses do you a damn bit of good if you can't hit your target, making skill the more important factor. Wanna know my usual loadouts? Militia gear + the merc pack drop suit and SMG. I haven't used a single consumable, average top 3 in most of my matches, and generally have a K/D of around 1.4 (overall is down around 1.05 due to some bad matches and the fact that controllers suck for FPS games.) This is in spite of all the people with higher skills from having more time to play than I do, and using much better gear. Matchmaking is 1) a bad joke in almost all cases, and 2) completely antithetical to this game's concept. All well and good for the high-sec stuff, which they said would be NPC contracts (you could theoretically work a matchmaking system into it and still let you work for the desired factions), but is completely unworkable in low- and null-sec. Furthermore, the beauty of the skill system, and what you're some fantastically wrong about, is that it PREVENTS it turning into a "level 80 gankfest," as explained above and in other posts. I'm sorry it's too much for you. WoW and CoD are over there -->>
Please explain that.... how does having 50% more damage, shields, armor, etc stop the "Level 80 Gankfest"? |
Armatsu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Genhawkk wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out. You're putting words in their mouth. They never said anything about it being hardcore being the issue. They simply said they wanted to get more than the typical EVE audience (i.e. space and all the mechanics that make up EVE.) None of their statements preclude a deep and complex skill system, consequences, a hardcore experience, or anything else we're seeing here. Nothing they've said precludes the need for teamwork, supports the "can't compete" fallacy you and others seem to subscribe to (and many of the newbies in EVE that don't comprehend how the skill system works erroneously believe too). Pick something, specialize, and you'll be the equal of that 10 year player in that one area within about 2-3 months (maybe days or weeks here, since you get bonus SP just for playing). Also, none of those damage bonuses do you a damn bit of good if you can't hit your target, making skill the more important factor. Wanna know my usual loadouts? Militia gear + the merc pack drop suit and SMG. I haven't used a single consumable, average top 3 in most of my matches, and generally have a K/D of around 1.4 (overall is down around 1.05 due to some bad matches and the fact that controllers suck for FPS games.) This is in spite of all the people with higher skills from having more time to play than I do, and using much better gear. Matchmaking is 1) a bad joke in almost all cases, and 2) completely antithetical to this game's concept. All well and good for the high-sec stuff, which they said would be NPC contracts (you could theoretically work a matchmaking system into it and still let you work for the desired factions), but is completely unworkable in low- and null-sec. Furthermore, the beauty of the skill system, and what you're some fantastically wrong about, is that it PREVENTS it turning into a "level 80 gankfest," as explained above and in other posts. I'm sorry it's too much for you. WoW and CoD are over there -->> Please explain that.... how does having 50% more damage, shields, armor, etc stop the "Level 80 Gankfest"? In WoW a level 80 can auto attack a level 10 and pop him in a few seconds. Now let's assume a level 80 takes 8 years and a level 10 takes 1 year (this is an eve scaling of WoW levels). The 8 year player may have maxed shields, maxed armor, maxed caldari dropsuit, maxed gallante dropsuit, maxed sniper, maxed assault, etc. This guy doesn't benefit from all of these skills at once. He has the option of versatility. A smart 1 year player will specialize and completely max everything needed for 1 lookout. Not only is that one year player competitive, he is actually equal or even better than the 8 year player depending on the 8 year player build. As a new player you should spend your first few weeks figuring out what you like and then picking something and maxing it before moving on. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
931
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Southern1Cross wrote:Craig Greenway wrote:I have heard a few rumours that we are earning skill points at a rapid rate, 4X the rate it will be when the beta goes live. Is this true? This will really grate when we are used to earning between 40k and 100k a round down to 10-25k!
Would like confirmation rather than more rumours if at all possible please :) wow really? yeah thats not good beta players will absolutely DEEEEEEESTROY all the newcomers on release Everyone will be reset at release. The only advantage we'll have over everyone else is skill.
|
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Armatsu wrote:Genhawkk wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:Well thats why i said its what DUST was supposed to be. CCP's mission statement was to get people who just couldnt get into EVE for being to hard core into the EVE universe. You cant turn an mmo into an fps because of the overwhelming power that older players will have over the new ones. I just calculated some skills and this is what i got. So if you max out the AR proficiency at level 5 youll get 25% damage increase ok thats already unfair but not by much. BUT OH WAIT WEAPONRY level 5 gives you another 15% so now we are at 40% damage boost. NOw you can pretty much kill a militia geared nooby in like three hits assuming your at advanced or higher level gear. BUT OH WAIT, there is more Assuming you have a prototype suit you now have two high level power slots so you slap on two 10% light weapons damage boosters. WELL GOD JEZZUZ now 60% damage increase. You could kill in just a few hits with militia gear while it still takes them a clip or more to even take down your shield. All in all im saying this game is turning into an mmo and there is a reason you dont mix mmo and fps because in WOW you wouldnt make a level 5 go up agaisnt a lvl 80.
The only way to make sure this game isnt a disaster is to have a really good matchmaking service to make sure noobies have time to grow and learn and level up before they take on a big challenge just like in an mmo.
And if you think this is wrong then your doing FPS wrong my friend. This is supposed to be a fun way to get new players to enjoy EVE. NOT turn into some "LEVEL 80" gank fest for you veteran EVE players. AND if thats what you want this game to be then you can count me out. You're putting words in their mouth. They never said anything about it being hardcore being the issue. They simply said they wanted to get more than the typical EVE audience (i.e. space and all the mechanics that make up EVE.) None of their statements preclude a deep and complex skill system, consequences, a hardcore experience, or anything else we're seeing here. Nothing they've said precludes the need for teamwork, supports the "can't compete" fallacy you and others seem to subscribe to (and many of the newbies in EVE that don't comprehend how the skill system works erroneously believe too). Pick something, specialize, and you'll be the equal of that 10 year player in that one area within about 2-3 months (maybe days or weeks here, since you get bonus SP just for playing). Also, none of those damage bonuses do you a damn bit of good if you can't hit your target, making skill the more important factor. Wanna know my usual loadouts? Militia gear + the merc pack drop suit and SMG. I haven't used a single consumable, average top 3 in most of my matches, and generally have a K/D of around 1.4 (overall is down around 1.05 due to some bad matches and the fact that controllers suck for FPS games.) This is in spite of all the people with higher skills from having more time to play than I do, and using much better gear. Matchmaking is 1) a bad joke in almost all cases, and 2) completely antithetical to this game's concept. All well and good for the high-sec stuff, which they said would be NPC contracts (you could theoretically work a matchmaking system into it and still let you work for the desired factions), but is completely unworkable in low- and null-sec. Furthermore, the beauty of the skill system, and what you're some fantastically wrong about, is that it PREVENTS it turning into a "level 80 gankfest," as explained above and in other posts. I'm sorry it's too much for you. WoW and CoD are over there -->> Please explain that.... how does having 50% more damage, shields, armor, etc stop the "Level 80 Gankfest"? In WoW a level 80 can auto attack a level 10 and pop him in a few seconds. Now let's assume a level 80 takes 8 years and a level 10 takes 1 year (this is an eve scaling of WoW levels). The 8 year player may have maxed shields, maxed armor, maxed caldari dropsuit, maxed gallante dropsuit, maxed sniper, maxed assault, etc. This guy doesn't benefit from all of these skills at once. He has the option of versatility. A smart 1 year player will specialize and completely max everything needed for 1 lookout. Not only is that one year player competitive, he is actually equal or even better than the 8 year player depending on the 8 year player build. As a new player you should spend your first few weeks figuring out what you like and then picking something and maxing it before moving on. In WoW, the level 10 can't headshot the level 80 and drop him with one bullet. In Dust, he can. In your example, the level 10 couldn't be the level 80's equal in ANY area. In Dust, he can.
This is the great fallacy I keep trying to explain to you people. Yes, the older player will always have more SP than you (unless he dies without an up to date clone). No, it doesn't mean you'll never match him, not at everything. If I'm in a scout dropsuit with a sniper rifle, locus grenade, damage booster, stam pack, and nanohive, what skills can I bring to bear? Only those skills that affect everything (not many exist in EVE or here) and those that affect the specific things I have with me at that moment in time. Sure, I can also drive a tank, fly a dropship, and call down orbital strikes from EVE players, but that's not on my current loadout. None of those skills enter into it.
At any given time, you only have maybe 10-20m SP in use on any given loadout in EVE (and that's probably overly generous, and is also assuming all relevant skills are level 5). That's only a year or so to train in EVE. In Dust, due to active skilling from matches, it'll be even less.
That's the true beauty and balance of the skill system as opposed to a level system. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Further, you won't have large gaps where one set of a players has a ton of SP and the next group down has substantially less; as time goes on, the ones with low SP will have numerical superiority, but the longer time goes on, the more people there are in the middle, and it has a remarkable way of balancing things out. The Goons, though I'm loath to credit them with anything but idiocy, compose their blobs almost entirely of players and equipment using less than 6 months of training.
Failing to wipe our characters, on the other hand, would, assuming nothing else changes and we're getting exactly 4x the SP we normally would, result in us gaining 4 years worth of SP in a mere 6 months. That's a pretty substantial gap. That would also translate to no one having access to anything that's properly suited to counter it, and is further exacerbated by being unfamiliar with the game compared to the rest of us. That's a whole different animal from just a newbie not having the SP of an oldbie. With the wipe, there will be people with access to the counters by the time there are people with access to the things that NEED to be countered. Without the wipe, people launch with the items that need counters, but the odds of anyone in a given match actually being able to bring those counters to bear is almost nil once we go live. That's the real danger and imbalance.
That danger does not contradict the fact "you'll never compete with them" is, in fact, a fallacy, both in EVE and here, and it always has been. |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
I dont think they should slow down the rate of sp gain because its defintely going to turn new players off when they have to suffer through getting the ass kicked by protype gear players for a week or more before they even stand a remote chance. If they do slow down the sp rate then they should either make protype gear weaker or noob gear stronger. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 17:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:I dont think they should slow down the rate of sp gain because its defintely going to turn new players off when they have to suffer through getting the ass kicked by protype gear players for a week or more before they even stand a remote chance. If they do slow down the sp rate then they should either make protype gear weaker or noob gear stronger. It's WAY too high right now as it is. It's fine for testing, but it'll be way to easy to max out if it's kept this way. It needs to be reduced. Easily compensated for by having your starter skills being high enough to use at least the second tier of weapon and armour for that chosen starter profession. That'll give you access to some decent equipment so you don't feel like a gimp while you're starting, but progress needs to be controlled, or it's going to be an end-game sprint, everyone burns out, and the skill mechanics end up having no meaning at all.
Remember, you're not supposed to be training EVERYTHING. Pick something and specialize. Jacks of all trades are masters of none. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
788
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
To the best of my knowledge we currently are not gaining 4x SP anymore... We haven't for a few weeks now. At least, they told us in IRC that this is no longer the case. It's possible they adjusted the rate a bit from what it was back in uprising, but it seems pretty similar.
|
|
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:To the best of my knowledge we currently are not gaining 4x SP anymore... We haven't for a few weeks now. At least, they told us in IRC that this is no longer the case. It's possible they adjusted the rate a bit from what it was back in uprising, but it seems pretty similar.
It seems like its' the same as when I first started. You remember my first character, Deus Necare? I thought that weekend I was posting and playing there was a 4x weekend? SP gains to me seem to be the same as they were then.
If this is the intended gain rate, things are even worse than I thought, because it's WAY too easy to advance. Hell, I have nearly 2m SP from maybe 12-15 TOTAL hours of play on this character since the wipe (last weekend and this weekend). And like I said, that's using entirely militia gear, the merc pack SMG, and the merc pack dropsuit (i.e. 100% BPOs on all my loadouts).
That makes me very nervous if this ISN"T accelerated SP gain... |
whoshotcha79
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
I believe a beta is a beta and EVERYTHING should be zero at launch just.bexause you tank out your heavie in beta why should you get that sdvatage over someone that didnt have the chance to play on it ? If you really love this game them you wont mind playing for a year to get that level 5 . Thatd how I feel anyway. Ziontcd |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:I dont think they should slow down the rate of sp gain because its defintely going to turn new players off when they have to suffer through getting the ass kicked by protype gear players for a week or more before they even stand a remote chance. If they do slow down the sp rate then they should either make protype gear weaker or noob gear stronger. It's WAY too high right now as it is. It's fine for testing, but it'll be way to easy to max out if it's kept this way. It needs to be reduced. Easily compensated for by having your starter skills being high enough to use at least the second tier of weapon and armour for that chosen starter profession. That'll give you access to some decent equipment so you don't feel like a gimp while you're starting, but progress needs to be controlled, or it's going to be an end-game sprint, everyone burns out, and the skill mechanics end up having no meaning at all. Remember, you're not supposed to be training EVERYTHING. Pick something and specialize. Jacks of all trades are masters of none. I just think that as an FPS this game should be more skill based a starting player who is better should be able to kill a protype geared player, I cant imagine why people want it to be like an mmorpg. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:I dont think they should slow down the rate of sp gain because its defintely going to turn new players off when they have to suffer through getting the ass kicked by protype gear players for a week or more before they even stand a remote chance. If they do slow down the sp rate then they should either make protype gear weaker or noob gear stronger. It's WAY too high right now as it is. It's fine for testing, but it'll be way to easy to max out if it's kept this way. It needs to be reduced. Easily compensated for by having your starter skills being high enough to use at least the second tier of weapon and armour for that chosen starter profession. That'll give you access to some decent equipment so you don't feel like a gimp while you're starting, but progress needs to be controlled, or it's going to be an end-game sprint, everyone burns out, and the skill mechanics end up having no meaning at all. Remember, you're not supposed to be training EVERYTHING. Pick something and specialize. Jacks of all trades are masters of none. I just think that as an FPS this game should be more skill based a starting player who is better should be able to kill a protype geared player, I cant imagine why people want it to be like an mmorpg. I use all BPOs on my setups (militia gear + merc pack SMG and dropsuit). I do just fine, and I suck with a controller. I'd say that's a pretty strong indication that it's pretty fairly balanced. It'll only get better when the next build brings KB/M with it, and I'll no longer have ****** controls contributing negatively to my performance. |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 19:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
What it all comes down to is the fact that SOME of the people who play this are terrible at shooters and want to be good at this game so they want there to be a grind. They want to spend every waking moment playing this game so they can feel good when they kill someone who dosnt have good gear. I personally dont see the fun in killing someone who dosnt stand chance because his gear isnt good. |
XtortionXx
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 19:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
I played EvE Online for over 7 years, and I seriously like the perks you get for being a veteran and being vested in the game. I really don't like the idea some noob can come along with one week play time and have the same equip and skills that I have. That doesn't go to say that a new player can not kill me, just make it more of a challenge. To everyone their own. |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 19:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
I keep telling people that it will only take about a month (since we are at 4x SP currently in beta) to get Proto Weapon and Armor (If you bee-line it obviously). But EVERYONE keeps telling me it will take 6+ Months and all this other ****... regardless of looking at the math (especially since diminishing returns ARE currently in).
Now, if it REALLY does take 6+ month just to unlock a proto weapon + armor then this community is going to be EXTREMELY small and niche!
You can argue all you want about getting headshots and all this "player skill;" but the fact is a veteran will have 50% more damage, shield, armor, etc.... and the new guy has to spend 6 months with that disadvantage to be on the same level of field that would then be dictated by "player skill."
I love EVE, skill system and ALLLLL the meta game; but this game is F2P on a restricted PS3 market! I have NEVER EVER heard of a game on the PS3 that sets you up against veterans with a 50% advantage across the board that you have to put up with months on end.
This game is F2P and you have to disregard launch as the game needs to GROW; especially if they move it to PC or even XBOX.
More people playing a F2P game is never a bad thing |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 19:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:Im not but hurt about losing my stats. Im butt hurt about the system being unfair to noobs. AND IM TRYING TO TELL YOU. That yes we will have a slower SP increase, but this also applies to new players that start after a year from launch and it will take them a year to get to your level by which time youll have two years under your belt. See the math there.
LIKE I SAID you cant mix an fps and mmo. MMO is stat based FPS is supposed to be skill based you cant jsut allow people who have played longer to have an advantage. It should be so that a nooby player could kick a high level players butt if he has more skill. Granted if it is a one on one situation both facing each other.
W/E this is my last post about this. I really enjoy dust as it is but ive played alot of FPS games in my 30 years alive and I can tell you as is, its not a very good FPS, its too unfair for new players and that cant happen in an fps. And im talking about new players 1-2 years from now. NOT at launch. I gave you a solution make sure veteran players dont get mixed with noobies in the matchmaking system but find dont listen. I THOUGHT this game was to bring in a new audience to get more people to join the EVE universe but apparently its just another EVE for EVE players and you seem to not be very friendly to us as you call "Soffie" COD players. I once tried to get into EVE and i really wanted to like it but it asked for too much time and dedication to learn so i never did. Then i heard about DUST and how it would allow for an experience where people who didnt get EVE would have a chance to be apart of your world but apparently you dont want us.
You seem to lack even a basic understanding of how this game works. "Noobs" will be up against other noobs in high sec, vets will be fighting other vets in low and null. The balance needs to be between players of similar SP levels. Do you have any experience with mmos? |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Genhawkk wrote:I keep telling people that it will only take about a month (since we are at 4x SP currently in beta) to get Proto Weapon and Armor (If you bee-line it obviously). But EVERYONE keeps telling me it will take 6+ Months and all this other ****... regardless of looking at the math (especially since diminishing returns ARE currently in).
Now, if it REALLY does take 6+ month just to unlock a proto weapon + armor then this community is going to be EXTREMELY small and niche!
You can argue all you want about getting headshots and all this "player skill;" but the fact is a veteran will have 50% more damage, shield, armor, etc.... and the new guy has to spend 6 months with that disadvantage to be on the same level of field that would then be dictated by "player skill."
I love EVE, skill system and ALLLLL the meta game; but this game is F2P on a restricted PS3 market! I have NEVER EVER heard of a game on the PS3 that sets you up against veterans with a 50% advantage across the board that you have to put up with months on end.
This game is F2P and you have to disregard launch as the game needs to GROW; especially if they move it to PC or even XBOX.
More people playing a F2P game is never a bad thing
Excatly! no one is going to want to suffer through loss after loss and death after death they will just quit the game all together and then you'll have no player base except for a small group of dedicated players who will liekly get bored fighting the same people over and over. |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Genhawkk wrote:I keep telling people that it will only take about a month (since we are at 4x SP currently in beta) to get Proto Weapon and Armor (If you bee-line it obviously). But EVERYONE keeps telling me it will take 6+ Months and all this other ****... regardless of looking at the math (especially since diminishing returns ARE currently in).
Now, if it REALLY does take 6+ month just to unlock a proto weapon + armor then this community is going to be EXTREMELY small and niche!
You can argue all you want about getting headshots and all this "player skill;" but the fact is a veteran will have 50% more damage, shield, armor, etc.... and the new guy has to spend 6 months with that disadvantage to be on the same level of field that would then be dictated by "player skill."
I love EVE, skill system and ALLLLL the meta game; but this game is F2P on a restricted PS3 market! I have NEVER EVER heard of a game on the PS3 that sets you up against veterans with a 50% advantage across the board that you have to put up with months on end.
This game is F2P and you have to disregard launch as the game needs to GROW; especially if they move it to PC or even XBOX.
More people playing a F2P game is never a bad thing Excatly! no one is going to want to suffer through loss after loss and death after death they will just quit the game all together and then you'll have no player base except for a small group of dedicated players who will liekly get bored fighting the same people over and over.
But I am not saying to get rid of the skill system or ANYHTING like that (I love it).... Just reduce the difference at 50% across the board (can be more if fitted specifically) is a A LOT!
|
|
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
Genhawkk wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Genhawkk wrote:I keep telling people that it will only take about a month (since we are at 4x SP currently in beta) to get Proto Weapon and Armor (If you bee-line it obviously). But EVERYONE keeps telling me it will take 6+ Months and all this other ****... regardless of looking at the math (especially since diminishing returns ARE currently in).
Now, if it REALLY does take 6+ month just to unlock a proto weapon + armor then this community is going to be EXTREMELY small and niche!
You can argue all you want about getting headshots and all this "player skill;" but the fact is a veteran will have 50% more damage, shield, armor, etc.... and the new guy has to spend 6 months with that disadvantage to be on the same level of field that would then be dictated by "player skill."
I love EVE, skill system and ALLLLL the meta game; but this game is F2P on a restricted PS3 market! I have NEVER EVER heard of a game on the PS3 that sets you up against veterans with a 50% advantage across the board that you have to put up with months on end.
This game is F2P and you have to disregard launch as the game needs to GROW; especially if they move it to PC or even XBOX.
More people playing a F2P game is never a bad thing Excatly! no one is going to want to suffer through loss after loss and death after death they will just quit the game all together and then you'll have no player base except for a small group of dedicated players who will liekly get bored fighting the same people over and over. But I am not saying to get rid of the skill system or ANYHTING like that (I love it).... Just reduce the difference at 50% across the board (can be more if fitted specifically) is a A LOT! Ya I hear you the game definitely has balanceing issues that need to adressed but a lot of players here dont want that, they'd rather be nearly invincible when it comes to fighting new players |
TEBOW BAGGINS
FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
They shouldn't dumb down the game any for noobs who have to play catch up. Its like that in most online shooters you get owned by people with advanced gear. All it does is make you play harder and smarter. For one they can play as a team and get kill assists so there still getting points. Or they can play like a CoD moron and get pwned..
Noobs wanting advanced gear too soon usually want to play as rambo anyway not actually doing much for their team.. the gimped gear forces them to play as a team by the time they get better gear they already understand what team play is about.
I came into the beta late, had to vs ppl with advanced gear but that didn't ruin the game for me it just made me try harder. I would like to think I'm not a minority in that aspect.. adjusting the game so noobs can feel good about themselves by trying to "balance" everything is a bad move.
if they can't pay their dues then online FPS probly not really for them anyway.. offline maybe be a better choice for them if they get that butt hurt about things being balanced in their favor when others before them manned up to the challenge.. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Genhawkk wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Genhawkk wrote:I keep telling people that it will only take about a month (since we are at 4x SP currently in beta) to get Proto Weapon and Armor (If you bee-line it obviously). But EVERYONE keeps telling me it will take 6+ Months and all this other ****... regardless of looking at the math (especially since diminishing returns ARE currently in).
Now, if it REALLY does take 6+ month just to unlock a proto weapon + armor then this community is going to be EXTREMELY small and niche!
You can argue all you want about getting headshots and all this "player skill;" but the fact is a veteran will have 50% more damage, shield, armor, etc.... and the new guy has to spend 6 months with that disadvantage to be on the same level of field that would then be dictated by "player skill."
I love EVE, skill system and ALLLLL the meta game; but this game is F2P on a restricted PS3 market! I have NEVER EVER heard of a game on the PS3 that sets you up against veterans with a 50% advantage across the board that you have to put up with months on end.
This game is F2P and you have to disregard launch as the game needs to GROW; especially if they move it to PC or even XBOX.
More people playing a F2P game is never a bad thing Excatly! no one is going to want to suffer through loss after loss and death after death they will just quit the game all together and then you'll have no player base except for a small group of dedicated players who will liekly get bored fighting the same people over and over. But I am not saying to get rid of the skill system or ANYHTING like that (I love it).... Just reduce the difference at 50% across the board (can be more if fitted specifically) is a A LOT! Ya I hear you the game definitely has balanceing issues that need to adressed but a lot of players here dont want that, they'd rather be nearly invincible when it comes to fighting new players
The whole POINT of the discrepancy is to create a DIVIDE between new players and vets. Reducing that discrepancy will make the problem worse, not better. Noobs will play in high sec for small payouts against other noobs. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:What it all comes down to is the fact that SOME of the people who play this are terrible at shooters and want to be good at this game so they want there to be a grind. They want to spend every waking moment playing this game so they can feel good when they kill someone who dosnt have good gear. I personally dont see the fun in killing someone who dosnt stand chance because his gear isnt good. I'm good at shooters (especially when you give me good controls; read: mouse), and I'm one of the ones sitting here explaining that the "grind" is a non-issue, and is in fact a good and important aspect of the gameplay and strategy.
Furthermore, as I already stated, I use nothing but BPOs, and even using a controller, still make a very nice showing for myself.
I'm walking, talking proof that gear isn't everything, and that's the great thing about player-skill-based games like EVE and Dust. |
Wicked Weasle
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players. |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:What it all comes down to is the fact that SOME of the people who play this are terrible at shooters and want to be good at this game so they want there to be a grind. They want to spend every waking moment playing this game so they can feel good when they kill someone who dosnt have good gear. I personally dont see the fun in killing someone who dosnt stand chance because his gear isnt good. I'm good at shooters (especially when you give me good controls; read: mouse), and I'm one of the ones sitting here explaining that the "grind" is a non-issue, and is in fact a good and important aspect of the gameplay and strategy. Furthermore, as I already stated, I use nothing but BPOs, and even using a controller, still make a very nice showing for myself. I'm walking, talking proof that gear isn't everything, and that's the great thing about player-skill-based games like EVE and Dust. Ya I got one nice piece of a gear yesterday a credon and my KDR has been climbing since, But I still think that the game needs to be more balanced maybe force people to play with people of the similar total sp. |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:What it all comes down to is the fact that SOME of the people who play this are terrible at shooters and want to be good at this game so they want there to be a grind. They want to spend every waking moment playing this game so they can feel good when they kill someone who dosnt have good gear. I personally dont see the fun in killing someone who dosnt stand chance because his gear isnt good. I'm good at shooters (especially when you give me good controls; read: mouse), and I'm one of the ones sitting here explaining that the "grind" is a non-issue, and is in fact a good and important aspect of the gameplay and strategy. Furthermore, as I already stated, I use nothing but BPOs, and even using a controller, still make a very nice showing for myself. I'm walking, talking proof that gear isn't everything, and that's the great thing about player-skill-based games like EVE and Dust. Ya I got one nice piece of a gear yesterday a credon and my KDR has been climbing since, But I still think that the game needs to be more balanced maybe force people to play with people similar total sp. |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:52:00 -
[68] - Quote
Don't forget we're being rewarded with permanent dropsuits for our beta testing. Not proto gear mind you, but still better than militia. |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 22:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:They shouldn't dumb down the game any for noobs who have to play catch up. Its like that in most online shooters you get owned by people with advanced gear. All it does is make you play harder and smarter. For one they can play as a team and get kill assists so there still getting points. Or they can play like a CoD moron and get pwned..
Noobs wanting advanced gear too soon usually want to play as rambo anyway not actually doing much for their team.. the gimped gear forces them to play as a team by the time they get better gear they already understand what team play is about.
I came into the beta late, had to vs ppl with advanced gear but that didn't ruin the game for me it just made me try harder. I would like to think I'm not a minority in that aspect.. adjusting the game so noobs can feel good about themselves by trying to "balance" everything is a bad move.
if they can't pay their dues then online FPS probly not really for them anyway.. offline maybe be a better choice for them if they get that butt hurt about things being balanced in their favor when others before them manned up to the challenge..
There is a big difference when it comes to other games, especially COD (as your example you used). Having a slightly higher rate or fire, weapon feel, or even a different grenade (sticky vs frag). No FPS on the market has a 50% damage, shield, armor for being Mac level verse someone who just started (like COD as you used it as an example). |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 22:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players.
This is an MMOFPS. You clearly don't have any idea what you are talking about. Why would a vet waste time in High sec?
It's baseless arguments like yours asking to take the Dust 514 out of Dust 514 that makes people say "go back to your CoD arcade games." |
|
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 22:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
I haven't read all replies, but FYI, In EVE a good pilot tend to earn about 25 milllion SP. Per year.
Things takes time, and even at a quarter of the current rate, skill earning in DUST is exceptionally fast. |
Hawk Von Draum
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 23:46:00 -
[72] - Quote
Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours
And where does it say you need to max out a skill to use a weapon type? |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 01:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players. This is an MMOFPS. You clearly don't have any idea what you are talking about. Why would a vet waste time in High sec? It's baseless arguments like yours asking to take the Dust 514 out of Dust 514 that makes people say "go back to your CoD arcade games." A vet would spend time on low sec to kill noobs If he is already happy with his character why would he care about how much sp he was getting |
Genhawkk
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players. This is an MMOFPS. You clearly don't have any idea what you are talking about. Why would a vet waste time in High sec? It's baseless arguments like yours asking to take the Dust 514 out of Dust 514 that makes people say "go back to your CoD arcade games."
You will have to tell me which fortune teller you use....
Speculation is speculative, how can you talk about something that is not even out or has been fully talked about? Love all the speculation on the forums the past couple of days; hell one dude said we only have 10% of the game and CCP already has all the PVE / Security Status done and that we were just testing out the core combat!
This forum keeps getting better and better every week! |
Armatsu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 21:21:00 -
[75] - Quote
Genhawkk wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players. This is an MMOFPS. You clearly don't have any idea what you are talking about. Why would a vet waste time in High sec? It's baseless arguments like yours asking to take the Dust 514 out of Dust 514 that makes people say "go back to your CoD arcade games." You will have to tell me which fortune teller you use.... Speculation is speculative, how can you talk about something that is not even out or has been fully talked about? Love all the speculation on the forums the past couple of days; hell one dude said we only have 10% of the game and CCP already has all the PVE / Security Status done and that we were just testing out the core combat! This forum keeps getting better and better every week!
Are you quoting Baal Roo? If so i'm confused. He didn't say anything that isn't common knowledge. Dust is an MMOFPS. Just like EVE, most vets will not waste time in High Sec unless they are trolling. If they do hang around in High Sec it would be exactly like Halo 3 and League of Legends is with people just trying to pick up free kills and feel good about themselves. Most players however will be in low and null sec where the rewards are much greater. |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 21:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
James Trendall wrote:Shinigami6 Test wrote:I think its really wrong that we will gain a quarter of what we are earning now. most skills take 1,000,000 sp to max. if we gained 10k per match we would have to play 100 matches. i for one don't want to commit only to one weapon or armor, or play style altogether. i want to be able to experience the full game with out having to commit to hundreds of game hours CCP have made EVE in to a 9+year game and its still going strong. If dust was to conform to the majority of console shooters and make the game easy to reach max lvl's for you to unlock all the stuff you want within a few weeks you wont have much more enjoyment left for the game to give. I agree that we are all used to 100+k SP then dropping down to around20k after a few games but think of it as a challenge to get that proto gear you so desperately want.
Challenge Accepted! |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 22:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
Genhawkk wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players. This is an MMOFPS. You clearly don't have any idea what you are talking about. Why would a vet waste time in High sec? It's baseless arguments like yours asking to take the Dust 514 out of Dust 514 that makes people say "go back to your CoD arcade games." You will have to tell me which fortune teller you use.... Speculation is speculative, how can you talk about something that is not even out or has been fully talked about? Love all the speculation on the forums the past couple of days; hell one dude said we only have 10% of the game and CCP already has all the PVE / Security Status done and that we were just testing out the core combat! This forum keeps getting better and better every week!
I would say 10% might be a stretch actually, considering CCP has stated that there will be 7,000 maps at launch, and we currently have TWO.
The thing is though, really we are BOTH "speculating", but I'm speculating based on the information CCP has provided about how the game will be structured, whereas your speculations seem to be based off of how games like CoD or Halo are structured. This entire conversation is speculative, so it seems it makes sense to at least assume CCP will deliver the basic structure they have outlined. |
Craig Greenway
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
Who would have thought my topic from ages ago is so popular, and I still only have 2 likes lol |
pew pew youredead
What The French
98
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 19:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
Wicked Weasle wrote:I ish started flame war. JEEZUS! I just want to tell you guys this is supposed to be an FPS not an mmo. In an FPS game yes you can get better weapons but its usually a slight advantage not an overwhelming advantage of 60% damage bonus on a proto AR and not to mention a proto dropsuit. BTW A PROTO SNIPER with that same 60% can kill any basic or lower geared unit in one shot to the chest. and maybe even some advanced gear units. Not to mention one shot militia units in the foot. Also proto AR with this bonus can drop militia with two bullets, but takes them almost two clips to take out a proto. FAIR? i THINK NOT?
MY POINT: STOP THE STATS and drop the skill bonuses to like 1% per level and make leveling faster. TIS a game for FPS players not an FPS for EVE players.
you STILL don't get the point of this game noobs get killed. end. ->Welcome to EVE
still don't want to understand, COD is that way -> here's the door
stats are what make eve and dust, it's not like i never got killed by a militia dude while i'm wearing advanced armor and proto weapons, just have to fight smarter and not ZERGRUSH ohmagad imded. |
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