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Love the game! But please change the 'suicide terminology'

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riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:27:00 - [1] - Quote As a long time gamer and father of two boys I'm I little concerned with the need to press O for 'suicide' nearly every time I die in the game (which so far is alot). While I understand this is 'T' game and not 'M' (in which I'm very thankful) I just wished you super creative guys could create a better term for 'suicide' because for some reason in this game I just feel uneasy with it.
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:31:00 - [2] - Quote Yet oddly you are completely ok with killing for profit...
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:37:00 - [3] - Quote Loss Tovas wrote: Yet oddly you are completely ok with killing for profit... I know, it's a strange request to ask to change the terminology without wanting to alter it's function in the game.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:41:00 - [4] - Quote In the context of immortality through clones, you don't really die, at least not for long, so suicide in this game is very different then it is in real life, and doesn't hold the same dark meaning. If your sons understand this, I don't think there will be a problem. Reading the word suicide won't lead to them... doing things they shouldn't. Like the person above said, you're killing people for money anyway. I guess CCP could just change the wording to "bleed out" or "die" instead. I see no reason to keep a wording that for some reason offends someone when there are equally effective ways to phrase it.
Primus Core Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 22	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:43:00 - [5] - Quote It used to saw "respawn". Not sure why they bothered to change it to "suicide".
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2012.07.01 07:43:00 - [6] - Quote I don't think that is strange at all... I think it is strange that you take issue with this particular word in regards to your children when the game itself is centered around killing for profit. IMO, acting out murder for hire would worry me more than choosing the quick way out after being gutted by rocket fire or a well placed blast from an assault rifle, but that's just me.
Montforce Tyrannus Algintal Core Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.07.01 08:05:00 - [7] - Quote I feel the same about it not feeling strange as well, it's there so that if there's no teammates to revive you then u kill your current body and jump right back into a clone. This also increases the focus of actually caring about the body u take into battle since in the later stages your fittings become expensive to replace as each body you loose costs u. The term suicide is used because in the universe of eve it only means to lose your body and have your mind jump to a clone, also this has been used in alot of fps games such as Battlefield. As I said when your character progression is later down the line and your fittings are expensive, it makes you not want to give up your body so easilly and thats also the same in EVE. Depending on how old your boys are, I was suggest keeping them away from the EVE universe entirely as in a nutshell, its not that their playing an online MMOFPS, but rather being a part of a massive war simulator, being contracted by other corporations and alliances to invade and kill on other planets. Dust 514 is solely there to be there as a merc, you can't play diplomatic or industrialised because your just an expensive merc with only one purpose, to defend and or attack against the enemies of your corporation. Up to you but I feel it might not be suitable for your boys.
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.07.01 10:05:00 - [8] - Quote That's the point of FPS, to desensitize your children to the horrors of war when they get drafted for WWIII honestly.
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.07.01 10:07:00 - [9] - Quote I kid. I know it's a minor detail, but I do think "suicide" is a bit ambiguous in gameplay compared to "respawn", so it's just more practical in my opinion.
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.07.01 10:08:00 - [10] - Quote Well, I change my mind. That is the point of FPS honestly.

Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.07.01 10:09:00 - [11] - Quote No, nevermind... I was kidding, sorry, please don't spy on me, government, mmmkay.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.01 11:18:00 - [12] - Quote well if you look at it from this side: You are wounded on the battlefield, immobilized. You could wait to be treated by a medic, ooooooor you could kill yourself. Why should "kill yourself" not be called "suicide"? As said more than once before, if your kids have reached a certain age, they should have the integrity to actually diverse between fiction and reality. If however they do not have reached an age where they are fully "mentally" developed (meaning they have an understanding what it means to die, and to kill, and what the differences between games and reality are), then it would be the wisest choice to not let them get in contact with said sort of games. I would even say, that using the word suicide is a good way to show the harshness of what you are doing. I DO believe that saying: "Nah he doesn't kill himself, he respawns" would be more of a threat for your children than saying outright: "He killed himself" as i think your way would play down death. But then again, if you want to show your kids this game, you have to have a proper discussion with them beforehand and check if they are able to distinguish.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.07.01 11:45:00 - [13] - Quote OP prob has teenagers give the dude a brake.
Codename BG 47 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2012.07.01 11:48:00 - [14] - Quote riven exige wrote: As a long time gamer and father of two boys I'm I little concerned with the need to press O for 'suicide' nearly every time I die in the game (which so far is alot). While I understand this is 'T' game and not 'M' (in which I'm very thankful) I just wished you super creative guys could create a better term for 'suicide' because for some reason if this game I just feel uneasy with it. You know where the doors are you can always open them and go back to little big planet this is war....you have infinite number of bodies...so why not to kill yourself. If you want to teach your kids how to kill buy them a real gun...why in game...and if you would pay attention to this lady saying crap, you would hear: "Remember that suicide in public area is strictly prohibited" CCP plz take the mercenary pack from PSN or just don't give this people access to forum...but on the other hand it's not fair couse lot of pro gamers came here :) and my ratio dropped down :D but THIS...please...Daddy go and buy candy for your sons, play ball, go on a family bike, don't waist their life...show them new MOD to call of duty called REAL LIFE...in store since 1 000 000+ years. I will say it again. This is WAR! You KILL! You DIE! SHOOT! EXPLODE! ** BURN EAT BABYS....no llttle bit to far...sorry...So you want to make it kids friendly? ok: SUICIDE = HUG THE OTHER GUY AND GO THOU THE RAINBOW OF LOVE AND HAPPINESS KILL/DEATH RATIO = HAPPY/BUBU FACES RATIO WEAPON = LOLLIPOP OF HAPPINESS THIS IS F**ING WAR PEOPLE!!!!!!!! NOT PLAYGROUND!!!!! And it was always SUICIDE. Cheers
Codename BG 47 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2012.07.01 11:53:00 - [15] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: OP prob has teenagers give the dude a brake. I don't mind having kids. I have 1 and second on the way...but it is not a reason to change biggest universe war game to pony ridding pink fagots (if somebody is homo, I didn't to offense them). I just want to point that life is not beautiful all the time...
Nick Phantom Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:16:00 - [16] - Quote There are parental controls on your PS3 use them. If I had kids 14 and under they would NOT be playing this game. In fact my little bro (8) is coming over to play some video games. Guess whats not on the play list Dust514. He's going to be stuck on Spiderman 3 and maybe a couple other games i have that aren't FPS games. What you do as a parent is your own business though so do what you have to do buddy. Eve is a harsh game and thus Dust will be to. I'd be a little more worried about what your kids would learn from some of the online players. Nothing against anyone here but lets face it conversations can get a little interesting to say the least.
Nellantar Ballsinya Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:18:00 - [17] - Quote Terminate Clone. The obvious choice.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:32:00 - [18] - Quote Killing yourself on purpose = suicide. Instead of being scared of your kids learning about bad words why don't you teach them about life and ALL its conditions.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:35:00 - [19] - Quote Yeah, gotta chime in with the common sense crowd here. You're lying there bleeding to death. The moment you die you get happily shuffled off into a fresh clone. The only way to speed up that process is to kill yourself. Killing yourself is called suicide. Lying there and having "Press 0 to do Happy Bunny Dance" wouldn't make any sense.
Nellantar Ballsinya Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:38:00 - [20] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Killing yourself on purpose = suicide. Instead of being scared of your kids learning about bad words why don't you teach them about life and ALL its conditions. These clones are more akin to property, though. You aren't really killing yourself, it's more like if you had an "SHUT-OFF" button on a RC car so you don't ruin the engine if it flips.

Codename BG 47 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2012.07.01 12:51:00 - [21] - Quote And the easiest way to "shot down body" is putting scrambler pistol to you head to start "Bunny Dance". I like these Cheese
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.01 13:03:00 - [22] - Quote Nellantar Ballsinya wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Killing yourself on purpose = suicide. Instead of being scared of your kids learning about bad words why don't you teach them about life and ALL its conditions. These clones are more akin to property, though. You aren't really killing yourself, it's more like if you had an "SHUT-OFF" button on a RC car so you don't ruin the engine if it flips. If you want to quibble about the exact nature of human consciousness transfer then do it in a conversation with your kids about whats going on in the game, don't demand that everyone else be made to put up with needless pedantry and censorship. If anyone is so borderline that being killed in this game and presented with a Suicide (o) option 'drives' them to suicide then they already have more problems than any amount of censorship can help.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.01 13:04:00 - [23] - Quote Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.01 13:30:00 - [24] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it. was that legitimately GOOD or just one of those companion books you'd only ever read if you were a rabid fan of whatever? cuz i'm reading game of thrones right now and i get the sensation i'm gonna catch up before the guy finishes the last 2 books... wouldn't mind something for the meantime. also op, if killing people in the game doesn't turn them into killers, suiciding in the game prolly won't turn them into suiciders. but there is of course, no reason you couldn't simply explain the premise of the game to them. point out that that's not how real life works (though frankly that might be insulting to there intelligence) i remember my father watching me play, like... red faction or goldeneye or something ( i dunno... long time), and posing the question "you know that's not how real life is right? you can't shoot your friend 50 times and he's ok?" my 13 y/o brain didn't have the words to articulate how offended i was by the very notion that i might NOT understand that... but hey, teenagers hate their parents anyway so what have you got to lose?
Tempus Paradoxium Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.01 14:00:00 - [25] - Quote I don't know why you would be concerned with your kids doing anything in a fictional environment, assuming they meet the minimum age requirements and/or you've properly taught them the differences between fantasy and reality and other such regular things. There's no reason to censor anything. If you don't think they're ready to play this game, then don't let them play it. Simple as that. You are the parent, not CCP. The PS3 has parental controls if you feel the need to use them.
Nellantar Ballsinya Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2012.07.01 14:09:00 - [26] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Nellantar Ballsinya wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Killing yourself on purpose = suicide. Instead of being scared of your kids learning about bad words why don't you teach them about life and ALL its conditions. These clones are more akin to property, though. You aren't really killing yourself, it's more like if you had an "SHUT-OFF" button on a RC car so you don't ruin the engine if it flips. If you want to quibble about the exact nature of human consciousness transfer then do it in a conversation with your kids about whats going on in the game, don't demand that everyone else be made to put up with needless pedantry and censorship. If anyone is so borderline that being killed in this game and presented with a Suicide (o) option 'drives' them to suicide then they already have more problems than any amount of censorship can help. These clones are Corporate property. You fight for your corporation, or you are disposed of. It's the New Eden way.
Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.07.01 14:11:00 - [27] - Quote It's a sensitive subject for many so how hard can be it change the term to "Bleed out" or something?
Ender Storm Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2012.07.01 14:49:00 - [28] - Quote Yeah, change it to something like "Release", not a problem to me but i can see the point.
Aiden Angel Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:08:00 - [29] - Quote I can understand that this might make you feel uneasy if you have children, but if they're under 14 then they shouldn't be playing this game. I'd personally prefer if people who played shooters were 17+ but there are people in the age group of 14-17 who are mature enough to play these games online while understanding the terminology, differences between real life and games, etc. I see nothing wrong with it being called suicide. Most games that allow you to kill yourself call it suicide. I don't have any problems with it being changed to:Respawn, die, bleed out, etc. I just don't think it's needed to change it. I also have to agree with many other people here. Regardless of the terminology, you're still killing people for money. Like others have also said, if you're worried about what your children might think if they saw the game, just try explaining to them the difference between video games and real life. I have played video games since a young and age and my parents have never had to explain to me the differences between games and real life. But I also started watching horror movies at a young age (no, my parents didn't particularly let me, I just have always liked scary movies). Then again, i've always been a bit more mature and understood things fairly easy. I find that a lot of things like:If you shoot someone they won't come back to life, you can't smash cars into people on the road, stabbing people is not ok, war is not like a shooter, etc, are just common sense, even at a young age. A young child might not understand that though so the best thing to do is to just explain these things to your children. If you're super worried just don't play the game around them or don't let them play it. There are parental controls if you need them.
Awiergan Snowcash Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:11:00 - [30] - Quote As a long-time Eve player, I find the concept of suicide to be incredibly important to the overall lore. Afterall, it's a primary means of long-distance transportation in the EVE universe. It's a concept that should make you uncomfortable, as the universe is supposed to have a corporate dystopian feel in which the value of money has exceeded that of the human life. As a software developer myself, I feel that sometimes the interactions in videogames can be part of the artistry. Ultimately, the developer is trying to communicate an idea in the same way that a writer or director would. Sometimes these ideas aren't comfortable, but removing them is disrespectful the designer. It's like banning a book or censoring a painting. If you feel uncomfortable with it, then the game is doing its job. I'd be disappointed if they changed that.

Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:14:00 - [31] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it. was that legitimately GOOD or just one of those companion books you'd only ever read if you were a rabid fan of whatever? No one should play dust without having read Templar One, and the other books are fantastic also.
Kincate Algintal Core Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:18:00 - [32] - Quote +1 to OP, its a small thing really but Terminate clone sounds so much cooler anyways. Since Suicide means the intentional act of causing ones own death, and you cant die, I would say Terminate Clone fits more appropriatley anyways.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:19:00 - [33] - Quote Primus Core wrote: It used to saw "respawn". Not sure why they bothered to change it to "suicide". Respawn seems a bit of an immersion breaker, so suicide honestly makes more sense as a prompt.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:38:00 - [34] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Buzzwords wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it. was that legitimately GOOD or just one of those companion books you'd only ever read if you were a rabid fan of whatever? No one should play dust without having read Templar One, and the other books are fantastic also. Just to throw into this stack, the only one of the books I've read is Templar One, and I couldn't put it down. Very good book, and really helps pass the time between beta weekends.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:42:00 - [35] - Quote Most of you all make excellent points that do make rational sense in the game environment where Dust514 exists. When you become a parent you become more sensitive to somethings (just being an irrational dad I guess) but in our world teens don't have a problem fighting a giant clone battle on many planets throughout the galaxy, but we do face a real problem of teen suicide. "We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us."- Marshall Mcluhan
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:48:00 - [36] - Quote I propose to change "Suicide" into "Transmit conscience". In the "Immortal Soldiers" trailer clearly transpires that this is how immortality works in Dust 514. It's not FPS familiar terminology like "Respawn" to "Bleedout" so it coudl confuse players at first but hell it's perfect.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:53:00 - [37] - Quote Templar Two wrote: I propose change the "Suicide" into "Transmit conscience". Int eh "immortal Soldiers" trailer clearly transpires that this is how immortality works in Dust 514. I second that proposal.
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:58:00 - [38] - Quote riven exige wrote: As a long time gamer and father of two boys I'm I little concerned with the need to press O for 'suicide' nearly every time I die in the game (which so far is alot). While I understand this is 'T' game and not 'M' (in which I'm very thankful) I just wished you super creative guys could create a better term for 'suicide' because for some reason in this game I just feel uneasy with it. It makes it so you know your not really dead and dont HAVE to respawn, I honestly love it instead of what they had last build. don't change it, if a teenager can't realize that the guy would have to suicide himself to go to his next clone, someone had beating the creativity out of them. It's a sci-fi universe where once you die you are transfered to the next clone in your reserves. If someone isn't killing you when your down, who's got to do it? Yourself.
Tempus Paradoxium Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.01 15:58:00 - [39] - Quote riven exige wrote: Most of you all make excellent points that do make rational sense in the game environment where Dust514 exists. When you become a parent you become more sensitive to somethings (just being an irrational dad I guess) but in our world teens don't have a problem fighting a giant clone battle on many planets throughout the galaxy, but we do face a real problem of teen suicide. A prompt in a game should never cause someone to kill themselves, or do anything out of their own will. If that were the case, then they have their own deep rooted personal issues that should be taken care of, however that's unrelated to the game specifically. If a prompt in a game could cause such a reaction, then they could also have the same reaction from any number of other mediums. If that is indeed the case, then once again it's not up to the world to bubble wrap itself because of your kid. It's the parents job to guide their children and if necessary, control their access to certain media. That's the whole purpose of parental controls and ratings on media. If they are deemed too young to play a game, they cannot buy it themselves. Even if they do somehow get the game, you still have parental controls to block access to that game from the console. You have all the necessary tools at your disposal, it's up to you, not CCP. If you don't agree with how CCP built their game, or feel your children can not handle playing it, then don't let them play it. I have never considered suicide over a game, and I never will. I should clarify that I have no attachment to the term 'suicide', and could care less if it was called anything else. I don't support censorship due to lack of parenting however; it's a slippery slope.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:08:00 - [40] - Quote You could just wait for me or one of the other Logi bros... we never get to use our injectors because of the twitch-to-O reaction most people have developed :L

Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:14:00 - [41] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Buzzwords wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it. was that legitimately GOOD or just one of those companion books you'd only ever read if you were a rabid fan of whatever? No one should play dust without having read Templar One, and the other books are fantastic also. sorry to hijack the thread here but, i'm lookin in the kindle store and i see 3. templar one, empyrean age, and burning life. should i be reading them in any order? one of the reviews for templar one mention it being a sequel? is that just some idiot CALLING it that or are they strongly connected? i'd hate to not know what's goin' on.
ETEREX Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:18:00 - [42] - Quote Personally, I don't mind either way, BUT what IS strange is that CCP seems to nerf any name in EVE Online that has the word 'suicide' in it. I had a habit of naming ships like 'Suicide Run' and 'Try Suicide' because I'm twisted and liked trying to run impossible transport missions through 0 sectors to see how far I could get. Anyway, normally after a day or two, the ship names would be reset back to the default without any warning or explanation. So the fact that it's an actual ability in Dust is kinda amusing to me. I think a term like 'Release / Terminate Clone' would make more sense, but, as some have pointed out, that would dimish the overall meaning of the sacrifice you are about to make and then it's just like any other CoD respawn and then who cares. I think the point is to make you stop and think about what you just did to get killed and was it ultimately worth sacrificing yourself over? If so, then YES, gloriously kill yourself off, if NO, then maybe that bad taste in your mouth will make you think twice about wasting your clone and gear again. I think if you have a teen with issues the best thing to do is just not let them play instead of ruining the game's immersion for the rest of the mature player base.
Auriel Aedean Gunslingers Corporation. GmbH 20	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:22:00 - [43] - Quote I'm sorry about your offence, but in all honesty, suicide happens. In the military. In real life. I'd say keep it the way it is, because people will find offence in nearly everything these days, but, perhaps a suitable substitute could be "Bleed Out". I don't care either way, Edit: The above post..I think "Terminate Clone" is PERFECT!
DanSun Clone Tgrad Mercs 3	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:25:00 - [44] - Quote Nellantar Ballsinya wrote: Terminate Clone. The obvious choice. +1
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:28:00 - [45] - Quote I never said I feel this way to soley protect my kids, but actually the way the game makes me feel personally when I have to hit the suicide button so frequently while playing (kind of a downer). Games should always be fun, even if you are playing a game within a dystopian corporate controlled universe. Being a parent has only made me more sensitive to this type of stuff than I use to. Again, you all make very valid points. "We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us."- Marshall McLuhan
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:34:00 - [46] - Quote Was this post made in opposite day? You are not dead yet, so the term suicide is proper. You are still waiting for a medic at that point. If anything I am glad they cal it suicide now to clue you into the fact you are not dead yet. You can wait for a medic to revive you or commit suicide. Changing it to Suicide was a great idea. Do not change it.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 16:57:00 - [47] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: Was this post made in opposite day? Well, we are playing a game within the universe that uses the utopian term 'eve' yet it's a dystopian world run by greedy corporations in which you never truly die. Sounds more like hades than its name might suggest .
Bob Deorum 15	Posted - 2012.07.01 17:38:00 - [48] - Quote Primus Core wrote: It used to saw "respawn". Not sure why they bothered to change it to "suicide". respawn does not fit the lore, to be honest I kinda like the terminology of transfer consciousness.
3PieceSuit Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.07.01 17:44:00 - [49] - Quote It's 'Suicide' on purpose to invoke a hesitation before pressing it. really, before you respawn you should be considering first the option to have a teammate revive you. This is not seen often now, due to the lack of team versus team battles, but once corporations are implemented, good logi players will be the backbone of a successful merc corp. If it was reverted to 'respawn' people will just rapidly press it, not thinking that there was another option.
Tempus Paradoxium Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.01 18:10:00 - [50] - Quote Bob Deorum wrote: Primus Core wrote: It used to saw "respawn". Not sure why they bothered to change it to "suicide". respawn does not fit the lore, to be honest I kinda like the terminology of transfer consciousness. I kind of like the sound of that actually. Though 'Force transfer of consciousness' would make more sense, since presumably it automatically happens once you bleed out anyway. It would also make the announcement while waiting for a a game to start which reminds everyone that 'suicide in public areas of the ship is prohibited' seem even more nonchalant, which is kind of funny. Go with whatever is thematically correct for the EVE universe though. Is killing oneself referred to as suicide?

Tyr Odinsson Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.07.01 18:15:00 - [51] - Quote I think it's a great concern for a good father dude. It's cool to see that some care for what's important :) Keep it up man It's just a little request that would make us more confortable :)
Dauss Vrau Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.07.01 18:21:00 - [52] - Quote riven exige wrote: As a long time gamer and father of two boys I'm I little concerned with the need to press O for 'suicide' nearly every time I die in the game (which so far is alot). While I understand this is 'T' game and not 'M' (in which I'm very thankful) I just wished you super creative guys could create a better term for 'suicide' because for some reason in this game I just feel uneasy with it. I agree! Change the terminology from "suicide" to "pass over"!
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.07.01 18:40:00 - [53] - Quote riven exige wrote: Most of you all make excellent points that do make rational sense in the game environment where Dust514 exists. When you become a parent you become more sensitive to somethings (just being an irrational dad I guess) but in our world teens don't have a problem fighting a giant clone battle on many planets throughout the galaxy, but we do face a real problem of teen suicide. "We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us."- Marshall Mcluhan I am a father of 2 another on the way, I can understand a certain ammount of what you say , but kids arn't as fragile and simple as you may think. I find if you explain things to them honestly and open as in dust being just a game that they will take it in there stride. As for the suicide thing I can take it or leave it, it's not even as if it's in ginormous letters all across the screen.
L1BERT1NE X Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.07.01 19:08:00 - [54] - Quote Suicide is a word with a specific definition. If you look it up you will not find that it is meant to imply shame, cowardice, guilt -or honor, for that matter. Though obviously you will find a lot of connotations in the commentary. But let's be clear, any feelings that are aroused in you by that word 'suicide' are being generated by you. You are bringing your own discomfort to the table. It is interesting, given all the other potentially abhorent behavior and backstory in this game and the EVE universe, that this one item makes you squirm. Given the nature of the immortals, and the definition of suicide, it seems to me that it is an appropriate term. I have no problem with it. I also would have no problem if it were changed to 'terminate clone' as suggested by someone else in this post. Humans have a long history of sanitizing language so that we don't actually have to think about what it is we're discussing. But, lets be clear...we're still talking about suicide, albeit an impermanent internet-cartoon-clone-avatar-suicide. Which, by the way, should make all the difference to you. I would agree with you if, by pressing O to bleed out (yes, I chose that alternative on purpose), you were presented with an animation of your clone sticking the barrel of his weapon to his face and splattering the wall behind him with little bits of brain and implants. That, however, is not what you are presented with. As an aside -you yourself noted the dystopian nature of EVE and (more pertinent) New Eden ( "Well, we are playing a game within the universe that uses the utopian term 'eve' yet it's a dystopian world run by greedy corporations in which you never truly die. Sounds more like hades than its name might suggest") Refresh my memory....how'd that whole Eden thing work out? -Perhaps the name is more apt than you think. Seems like a great opportunity to have an open conversation with your kids, or yourself.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 20:13:00 - [55] - Quote Some terminology actually pulls you out of the games amazing fictional universe because it reminds you too much of our own world. Having to frequently commit suicide just reminds me too much of a problem here on earth with the age group in which this game is targeting. Great fiction serves as a method to provide insight into our world without all the cultural artifacts (and terminology) that most of us already have strong opinions about. It's a fine line to what words and images pull you into a fictional work and which ones pull you out, and knowing the difference is what separates great works of art from merely good ones.
Debo Galaxy Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.07.01 20:39:00 - [56] - Quote Parenting is the parents job not CCP's. My parents didn't want me watching the playboy channel, so they didn't buy it for me. Plus the term suicide offends but , all the other killing, lying, stealing, etc. is ok. I would be more concerned on what my kids could find in a google search then a term that eventually becomes hit O to keep playing in your head.
Ares Webber Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.07.01 20:43:00 - [57] - Quote DanSun Clone wrote: Nellantar Ballsinya wrote: Terminate Clone. The obvious choice. +1 Like that one too.
L1BERT1NE X Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.07.01 20:51:00 - [58] - Quote riven exige wrote: Some terminology actually pulls you out of the games amazing fictional universe because it reminds you too much of our own world. Having to frequently commit suicide just reminds me too much of a problem here on earth with the age group in which this game is targeting. Great fiction serves as a method to provide insight into our world without all the cultural artifacts (and terminology) that most of us already have strong opinions about. It's a fine line to what words and images pull you into a fictional work and which ones pull you out, and knowing the difference is what separates great works of art from merely good ones. hmmmm: 1. Funny, putting in 'respawn' or something of the kind would remind me of the game and pull me out of the games amazing fictional universe. 2. Good thing the warfare and conflict don't remind you too much about the real world. That would really ruin the game for you. 3. re: your opinion on "what separates great works of art from merely good ones" and your criteria which appear to contain a disproportionate consideration of suicide. This is a shame, as it appears to put some "merely good" works outside of purvue. Things like: Hamlet Madame Bovary Anna Karenina Les Miserables The Awakening (though I have to admit this one did actually make me feel depressed) Romeo and Juliet X-men -The Dark Phoenix Saga (Oh, yes I did...) to name a few of the obvious examples. If only they had not dealt with suicide...they could have been great works.
Los Silencio D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.07.01 21:34:00 - [59] - Quote Codename BG 47 wrote: riven exige wrote: As a long time gamer and father of two boys I'm I little concerned with the need to press O for 'suicide' nearly every time I die in the game (which so far is alot). While I understand this is 'T' game and not 'M' (in which I'm very thankful) I just wished you super creative guys could create a better term for 'suicide' because for some reason if this game I just feel uneasy with it. You know where the doors are you can always open them and go back to little big planet this is war....you have infinite number of bodies...so why not to kill yourself. If you want to teach your kids how to kill buy them a real gun...why in game...and if you would pay attention to this lady saying crap, you would hear: "Remember that suicide in public area is strictly prohibited" CCP plz take the mercenary pack from PSN or just don't give this people access to forum...but on the other hand it's not fair couse lot of pro gamers came here :) and my ratio dropped down :D but THIS...please...Daddy go and buy candy for your sons, play ball, go on a family bike, don't waist their life...show them new MOD to call of duty called REAL LIFE...in store since 1 000 000+ years. I will say it again. This is WAR! You KILL! You DIE! SHOOT! EXPLODE! ** BURN EAT BABYS....no llttle bit to far...sorry...So you want to make it kids friendly? ok: SUICIDE = HUG THE OTHER GUY AND GO THOU THE RAINBOW OF LOVE AND HAPPINESS KILL/DEATH RATIO = HAPPY/BUBU FACES RATIO WEAPON = LOLLIPOP OF HAPPINESS THIS IS F**ING WAR PEOPLE!!!!!!!! NOT PLAYGROUND!!!!! And it was always SUICIDE. Cheers You must be a kid and have next to no military experience. I know this. Real soldiers don't brag about war and those that do have issues, especially in the way that you have, lacing you responses with obscenities and ignorant rambling. That in itself tells me you, my friend, are a child and completely oblivious to war in general. The only war you've seen is on your couch in front of a tv. It is true that the world isn't a safe place or nice either. I, unlike the ignorance above me, have given the government 8 years of service in the military. To keep it short and sweet, if someone has a genuine problem with a word usage in a game, it is ok to voice concern. Now, with that said, if your kids are younger than the recommended age, maybe not play until they are away or asleep. Online interactions are not rated and anything that you feel will be detrimental to them need not to be entertained. I personally like the term "terminate clone" as well.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.01 22:45:00 - [60] - Quote L1BERT1NE X wrote: 3. re: your opinion on "what separates great works of art from merely good ones" and your criteria which appear to contain a disproportionate consideration of suicide. This is a shame, as it appears to put some "merely good" works outside of purvue. Things like: Hamlet Madame Bovary Anna Karenina Les Miserables The Awakening (though I have to admit this one did actually make me feel depressed) Romeo and Juliet X-men -The Dark Phoenix Saga (Oh, yes I did...) to name a few of the obvious examples. If only they had not dealt with suicide...they could have been great works. Good examples, but the whole suicide effect loses its artistic function when occurs so frequently ( to me at least) while playing the game. 'Transferring consciousness' would so much cooler for a sci-fi game.

Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:01:00 - [61] - Quote Templar Two wrote: I propose to change "Suicide" into "Transmit conscience". So.. you want someone else to feel bad about the terrible things you've done?
Ghural Bear 15	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:06:00 - [62] - Quote I think the word should be changed back to 'respawn', mainly because a friend who was watching me play thought that I had killed myself, rather than been killed by another player. It's a little confusing.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:13:00 - [63] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Buzzwords wrote: Umallon Macross wrote: Or better yet, read Templar One, and have them read it. was that legitimately GOOD or just one of those companion books you'd only ever read if you were a rabid fan of whatever? No one should play dust without having read Templar One, and the other books are fantastic also. sorry to hijack the thread here but, i'm lookin in the kindle store and i see 3. templar one, empyrean age, and burning life. should i be reading them in any order? one of the reviews for templar one mention it being a sequel? is that just some idiot CALLING it that or are they strongly connected? i'd hate to not know what's goin' on. The order is Burning Life, Empyrean Age, Templar One. Burning Life is about little people in the EVE universe and how they deal with immortal capsuleers (ie players) Empyrean Age is about the Empires and the big conflict that was happening a few years ago (lots of cool explosions) Templar One is about the creation of the immortal soldiers we play as in Dust, and their first engagement. They arent really direct sequels, but they do occasionally reference events from the other books. (as well as referencing real events that have occurred online in Eve. @ EVERYONE ELSE If the suicide message is changed, I will state over comms every time I commit suicide that I am commiting suicide in protest against derp changes made for no good reason.
Kitt 514 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 94	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:18:00 - [64] - Quote as has been said, it used to say "respawn" I think a lot of people don't realize that they can be revived, so they just mash circle.
L1BERT1NE X Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:19:00 - [65] - Quote "Good examples, but the whole suicide effect loses its artistic function when occurs so frequently ( to me at least) while playing the game. 'Transferring consciousness' would so much cooler for a sci-fi game." Ahhh, well if we're talking about the game again... Than I will say that I don't think the use of suicide in this game was meant to serve any particular artistic function -I think it was a way to avoid the bleed out timer. I think they needed a word or two to show on the screen with the icon of the "O" button. I think they chose a word that, by definition, and in context of the game...fits. I also don't think suicide in this game was meant to be a main feature or receive as much attention as we have given it. I certainly don't see them listing it as a big "plus" to sell more copies. It's just a game mechanic similar to many other FPS's. Not to put all the responsibility on the consumer who voluntarily chooses to play this game, but one could always choose to let their pixel-person"expire naturally" rather than press the angst-inducing "O".
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:33:00 - [66] - Quote OP, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else that has a terrible experience and wants everyone else to conform around their personal mental scars. Despite what you may think, you have not yet healed - Seek professional help.
Zach Shanna Algintal Core Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2012.07.02 01:22:00 - [67] - Quote I'd just like to make a quick point "Pegi 18" Hard to miss it at the beginning of the game. As for the problems concerned with children, even though they're not allowed to play, the biggest problems with games like these is that they invoke violence in children. If anything should be take out, it should be the violence and the shooting.... Good luck with that
TheForerunner Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.07.02 01:36:00 - [68] - Quote I understand where you are coming from. Its not that we arent adults that cant handle seeing the words, or letting our children seem them even, its more of the subconscious effect of such. to a certain point, its almost the same as someone who was raped, hearing people say the word **** all of the time. Its not like they are saying a word that is unacceptable, its just that it bring forth bad thoughts or memories, much like someone who has or is contemplating suicide, seeing the word a thousand times might trigger unwanted thoughts. Idk just a thought. and like another person said... its less like suicide, and more like "Press O for Rebirth...."
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.02 03:23:00 - [69] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: OP, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else that has a terrible experience and wants everyone else to conform around their personal mental scars. Despite what you may think, you have not yet healed - Seek professional help. Ha! You are so wrong on every account, but I'm sure at this point in your life you're already accustomed to this truth. I just think there is a better/more creative solution.
Eirik DenRoue 22	Posted - 2012.07.02 03:25:00 - [70] - Quote Nope. Keep it! It allows players to realize they could be saved, but are instead taking the easy way out.

riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.02 03:30:00 - [71] - Quote Zach Shanna wrote: I'd just like to make a quick point "Pegi 18" Hard to miss it at the beginning of the game.t It more clearly states the game is T for teen (and not M for Mature) here in the USA.
Zach Shanna Algintal Core Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2012.07.02 03:45:00 - [72] - Quote riven exigeIt wrote: more clearly states the game is T for teen (and not M for Mature) here in the USA. Even a teenager isnt impressionable enough to be affected in any way by the phrasing of a single non-essential aspect of a game and i really dont think you should be worried about it
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.02 07:54:00 - [73] - Quote I just want to reiterate that I love this game so far and look forward to even greater things in the future.
Fuma Centuri Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2012.07.02 08:09:00 - [74] - Quote The whole reason this is called "Suicide" and not "Respawn" is because respawn sounds like you NEED to press it in order to continue. In actuality, you can be revived on the battlefield after being down to 0, that's why it is suicide to prematurely kill your clone before giving your team a chance to revive you. Unfortunately, the skills to revive you need a lot of skillpoints to unlock, so nobody uses that anyway. I like the "Terminate Clone" idea. Though why is it bad to say "suicide" in a game about murdering others? Just look at the background image of the forums. THERE'S A FOUNTAIN OF BLOOD and you feel uneasy with suicide :P
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.02 08:11:00 - [75] - Quote Should change to reactivate
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.02 10:43:00 - [76] - Quote riven exige wrote: Ignatius Crumwald wrote: OP, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else that has a terrible experience and wants everyone else to conform around their personal mental scars. Despite what you may think, you have not yet healed - Seek professional help. Ha! You are so wrong on every account, but I'm sure at this point in your life you're already accustomed to this truth. I just think there is a better/more creative solution. Yeah, he's off base with this. Now, the typical "I can't raise my children properly, and damn well don't want to talk to them, so you have to do it for me" attitude on the other hand... That one's pretty clear.
riven exige Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:27:00 - [77] - Quote I'm the one who plays the game, not my kids at this point. I actually think my wife and I do a very good job raising our kids and I'm one of the few dads who actually wantsto beta test/play a game to have fun and share their opinions while it's still in the creative process. I'm not one to complain about something after it's made and whatever CCP finally does on the subject I accept it, I'm just glad I had an opportunity to share my 2 cents with those doing all the labor to create this awesome game.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:55:00 - [78] - Quote Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote: well if you look at it from this side: You are wounded on the battlefield, immobilized. You could wait to be treated by a medic, ooooooor you could kill yourself. Why should "kill yourself" not be called "suicide"? As said more than once before, if your kids have reached a certain age, they should have the integrity to actually diverse between fiction and reality. If however they do not have reached an age where they are fully "mentally" developed (meaning they have an understanding what it means to die, and to kill, and what the differences between games and reality are), then it would be the wisest choice to not let them get in contact with said sort of games. I would even say, that using the word suicide is a good way to show the harshness of what you are doing. I DO believe that saying: "Nah he doesn't kill himself, he respawns" would be more of a threat for your children than saying outright: "He killed himself" as i think your way would play down death. But then again, if you want to show your kids this game, you have to have a proper discussion with them beforehand and check if they are able to distinguish. If playing a game where you commit suicide as an IMMORTAL clone leads them to contemplate following in their mercenaries footsteps, I think you got bigger problems, like Deskalkulos said. If anything, sit down and talk with them about the differentiating games and real life, and compartmentalizing them. You cannot do things you do in games in real life.
JB-FTW Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.02 17:29:00 - [79] - Quote to i dont really care what it says becuase the second u die everyone spams O too fast to even read it, but i would've liked something more creative pertaining to the whole"immortality" thing, shouldve been like, "TRANSFER MEMORIES"
Lephis Phoenix Algintal Core Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2012.07.02 17:35:00 - [80] - Quote The Game is not for kids. Its about killing (virtual) people.

Tus'sken Beebop 11	Posted - 2012.07.02 18:42:00 - [81] - Quote Heres an idea, stop your instant suicides so I can revive you with my Nanite Injectors, as I'm not carrying them for my own health although I wish that were the case (reviving myself) as nobody cares to revive their downed teammates.
Lephis Phoenix Algintal Core Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2012.07.02 18:50:00 - [82] - Quote Tus'sken Beebop wrote: Heres an idea, stop your instant suicides so I can revive you with my Nanite Injectors, as I'm not carrying them for my own health although I wish that were the case (reviving myself) as nobody cares to revive their downed teammates. Best post ever.
Kahlmin Tiarnan Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2012.07.02 18:59:00 - [83] - Quote Primus Core wrote: It used to saw "respawn". Not sure why they bothered to change it to "suicide". Because respawn just so boring.
RoBoJerk 41	Posted - 2012.07.02 19:35:00 - [84] - Quote I realize that some people have some strong feelings associated with suicide, but really? The request has been made, I'm sure by now CCP has taken note and has plans to address the issue, can we let this thread slide off the first page please?
King Snuggler Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2012.07.02 19:48:00 - [85] - Quote Codename BG 47 wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: OP prob has teenagers give the dude a brake. I don't mind having kids. I have 1 and second on the way...but it is not a reason to change biggest universe war game to pony ridding pink fagots (if somebody is homo, I didn't to offense them). I just want to point that life is not beautiful all the time... You made my day
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.02 20:33:00 - [86] - Quote I say change it to "Biomass" Thats what Eve players call it anyway.
Ricktus Molikroth Air Red Alliance 4	Posted - 2012.07.02 20:35:00 - [87] - Quote Terminate Clone, would work


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