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rpastry Dead Man's Game 316	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:06:00 - [1] - Quote I did the event with a 40m sp alt and specced gallente havs. About 15 matches later and I havent lost one in battle. Compared to the frustration of runnning AV it's an absolute joke how little risk there is running a proto tank in pubs. This from a tank noob. Some matches it seems half the enemy team has switched to swarms, which do absolutely FA damage to my perma-hardened fortress and are trivial to drive away from. Been a bit more wary of forges and PLC if they get on roofs, once even got me down to 50% armour. So I drive somewhere they can't shoot me. I've been a FG on a roof staring down at the battle taking the odd pot-shot at infantry and hoping the tank comes back into sight before I either run out of ammo die of boredom get sniped or fall off and take my chances in a gimped fit vs a pack of angry scouts who I shine up as a red dot for all to see while they pick their moment to shoot me in the back. I've been a swarmer in my gimped fit running and running to get in range to fling a couple of AV nades and lock a full clip onto a tank only for it to disappear round a corner and then see three or four red dots home in on my position. But now i'm a tank. I kill a few, some swap fits to kill me, I drive round the map grinning and picking off the weak and unwary, I get a fright when my shield disappears, I drive some more, maybe something else hits me. If so I drive off, mostly nothing else happens so I carry on as above. It's absolutely confirmed what I suspected, there is a massive imbalance. Cue tanker alts pretending ot be AV gods claiming to pop 10 proto tanks before breakfast. TL:DR? I've been AV since beta, it's hard. I've been a tanker since Tuesday, it's a piece of ****. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Radiant Pancake3 KILL-EM-QUICK 1	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:09:00 - [2] - Quote Okay. Learned the ways of N4g from Alcina's mom Deemed the most Kinkiest Corp Mate. Min Loyalist.
DiablosMajora 348	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:10:00 - [3] - Quote >mfw web grenades Prepare your angus
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:13:00 - [4] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: >mfw web grenades Neither of those things exist, then. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
ANON Cerberus TerranProtossZerg 881	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:13:00 - [5] - Quote Fall down off that tower enough times and eventually you soon learn that the forge gun is a beast at any range. That thing has the potential to WTFPWN everything (given the luck of the Irish in battle.)
Byron Triefletcher Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 54	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:16:00 - [6] - Quote I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. Fighting for Matari Freedom.
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 131	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:29:00 - [7] - Quote rpastry wrote: I've been AV since beta, it's hard. I've been a tanker since Tuesday, it's a piece of ****. ^^^^^Truth I've just got a 22m SP alt, with 90% of those points into vehicle cores and turrets... Even that felt too easy for me, and I'm an absolutely horrible tanker... So even though my main (40m) is infantry-only and even though I get my butt shot off nightly from the rounds of 10,000 proto rail rifles, it is infinitely more enjoyable... There's just no adrenaline rush when tanking -- Maybe it would be different if we had some dedicated vehicle-only maps and game modes...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:36:00 - [8] - Quote AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull. AV was harder for you in Chromosome even with the bugged 400m invisible going around corners swarms. I really cannot see how you can complain, vehicles have never been weaker, AV has never been this strong overall apart from the 3k+ dmg invisible following around corners locking on through cover and firing up in the air when not even looking at the vehicle swarms which still has the vast majority of them problems today. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:39:00 - [9] - Quote Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. Not I mean yeah if you want to be a pro God, go straight for full pro but you can do just as well with adv mods, maybe even better because your not thinking about loosing to much isk and you are actually fighting. These are my fits and they are excellent. I've destroyed multiple tanks of all tiers with them. You just have to know when to use them. Missile tank- Gunnlogi cvo Pro missile 2 adv extender 1 adv hardener 2 adv damage mods 1 adv CPU mod 1 adv missile ammo unit Rail tank Gunnlogi cvo Pro railgun 2 adv extenders 1 adv hardener 1 adv damage mod 1 adv heatsink 1 adv cpu mod 1 railgun ammo unit Blaster tank Madrugar gvo Pro blaster 1 adv damage 1 adv fuel injector 1 basic scanner 1 adv hardener 1 adv plate 1 adv rep 1 adv blaster ammo These tanks work perfect at all times. Only times I ever need to turn hardeners on are when AV is heavy or when attacking/confronting an enemy tank. Other than that, your great without hardeners. CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:39:00 - [10] - Quote OP, you're full of bullshit. anyone who pulls out proto swarms or a forge will wreck you, and most of my matches i can't do ** with those commando swarms. every play domination? Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@**-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!

Garcon lyfe G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 52	Posted - 2015.10.28 19:57:00 - [11] - Quote Vehicles are just right now all active atm.. with active your supposed to be a SUPER TANK! the prob i see is that tankers being able to run a hardener all the time! and that the damage reduction compared to what av can put out is small once all the math is done, also tanking into fact that armor is always repping and shield already have a passive res to them, But tanks cost a lot so ya they should be hard to blow the up lol. I would say have a GC (Global Cooldown) but tat be to much, I would have to say that take off the 2 sec delay of hardeners and make them shorter, dont ** with cooldown, there should be a small opening to were tanks could be a forge guns *** and when it should not. GTC (Galactic Trade Center) The last trading site you will need! http://www.dust514gtc.enjin.com
rpastry Dead Man's Game 318	Posted - 2015.10.28 20:05:00 - [12] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull. AV was harder for you in Chromosome even with the bugged 400m invisible going around corners swarms. I really cannot see how you can complain, vehicles have never been weaker, AV has never been this strong overall apart from the 3k+ dmg invisible following around corners locking on through cover and firing up in the air when not even looking at the vehicle swarms which still has the vast majority of them problems today. so from your statement; vehicles were stronger when proto tanks didnt exist swarms were weaker when they had 400m range and could blindfire forges were weaker when they had 600m range (was it further my memory fails me) and splash damage anyway im not complaining, i'm tanking now. I've made an honest evaluation based on playing both sides. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.28 20:20:00 - [13] - Quote rpastry wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull. AV was harder for you in Chromosome even with the bugged 400m invisible going around corners swarms. I really cannot see how you can complain, vehicles have never been weaker, AV has never been this strong overall apart from the 3k+ dmg invisible following around corners locking on through cover and firing up in the air when not even looking at the vehicle swarms which still has the vast majority of them problems today. so from your statement; vehicles were stronger when proto tanks didnt exist swarms were weaker when they had 400m range and could blindfire forges were weaker when they had 600m range (was it further my memory fails me) and splash damage anyway im not complaining, i'm tanking now. I've made an honest evaluation based on playing both sides. Surya and Sagaris were the strongest vehicles in the game at base stats and fully fitted but being fully fitted they had access to a number of modules which no longer exist and skills which no longer exist. You missed the part where i said they did 3k+dmg while being invisible and going around several corners. FG are still powerful and the best weapon to take out vehicles and with increased weakspot bonus it is even easier. Your entire OP is you complaining about and no suprise that AV is too weak and vehicles are too strong when it couldn't be further from the truth. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Byron Triefletcher Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 58	Posted - 2015.10.28 21:07:00 - [14] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. Not I mean yeah if you want to be a pro God, go straight for full pro but you can do just as well with adv mods, maybe even better because your not thinking about loosing to much isk and you are actually fighting. These are my fits and they are excellent. I've destroyed multiple tanks of all tiers with them. You just have to know when to use them. Missile tank- Gunnlogi cvo Pro missile 2 adv extender 1 adv hardener 2 adv damage mods 1 adv CPU mod 1 adv missile ammo unit Rail tank Gunnlogi cvo Pro railgun 2 adv extenders 1 adv hardener 1 adv damage mod 1 adv heatsink 1 adv cpu mod 1 railgun ammo unit Blaster tank Madrugar gvo Pro blaster 1 adv damage 1 adv fuel injector 1 basic scanner 1 adv hardener 1 adv plate 1 adv rep 1 adv blaster ammo These tanks work perfect at all times. Only times I ever need to turn hardeners on are when AV is heavy or when attacking/confronting an enemy tank. Other than that, your great without hardeners. How much do those tanks of your cost? Fighting for Matari Freedom.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.10.28 21:35:00 - [15] - Quote 1) You have found no decent AV opposition. 2) Gal HAV are easy mode compared to cal HAV. Regressed to blueberry level.
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.28 21:44:00 - [16] - Quote Byron Triefletcher wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. Not I mean yeah if you want to be a pro God, go straight for full pro but you can do just as well with adv mods, maybe even better because your not thinking about loosing to much isk and you are actually fighting. These are my fits and they are excellent. I've destroyed multiple tanks of all tiers with them. You just have to know when to use them. Missile tank- Gunnlogi cvo Pro missile 2 adv extender 1 adv hardener 2 adv damage mods 1 adv CPU mod 1 adv missile ammo unit Rail tank Gunnlogi cvo Pro railgun 2 adv extenders 1 adv hardener 1 adv damage mod 1 adv heatsink 1 adv cpu mod 1 railgun ammo unit Blaster tank Madrugar gvo Pro blaster 1 adv damage 1 adv fuel injector 1 basic scanner 1 adv hardener 1 adv plate 1 adv rep 1 adv blaster ammo These tanks work perfect at all times. Only times I ever need to turn hardeners on are when AV is heavy or when attacking/confronting an enemy tank. Other than that, your great without hardeners. How much do those tanks of your cost? My full adv tank costs like 400k. These, the hull is 600k and the turrets are like 200k I'd say about just under 1m ish Not sure tbh CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game 287	Posted - 2015.10.28 21:55:00 - [17] - Quote WTF Prof. 5 skrub Fully maxed tank pilot Still waiting 4 Surya,my only true love... <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 963	Posted - 2015.10.28 22:47:00 - [18] - Quote I would not say that's my experience, but maybe OP's AV struggles has brought down their mu. How did the fight go against other tanks? ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
rpastry Dead Man's Game 319	Posted - 2015.10.28 22:59:00 - [19] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I would not say that's my experience, but maybe OP's AV struggles has brought down their mu. How did the fight go against other tanks? blew up a couple of crappy ones, bit tentative at the moment around other tanks as im a tank noob mu should be been ok as it came off the back of doing the event at 3.89 k/d and 2.38 w/l so about 30 matches. played a couple more tonight, got a little AV resistance but tbh if i dont come up against strong AV in 15+ matches am I ever going to? yeah I probably will when ive earned enough isk to buy 3 spare tanks. mine are 1,159,000 btw; expensive, but im not losing them so its all profit. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 00:01:00 - [20] - Quote This event I just destroyed the Maddie's with my Proto Turrets >:) They dont stand a chance. One the hardners of the maddie are gone = My turn to kill. It only takes a few missiles and the maddie is gone. lol One time Latino Corp brought 5 tanks and I brought my = they all DIED xD One of them was proto while the rest were adv = my standard SHAV with proto modules = very effective and survived a lot of damage >:) Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"

TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 551	Posted - 2015.10.29 02:45:00 - [21] - Quote Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. But......but.....tanks shouldn't be hard to kill..
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 02:51:00 - [22] - Quote Luckily, the rest of us are trying to enjoy a video game and the fun things in those video games instead of measuring our lil' p*cker with technology. Anyway, just because a proto maddie can take that damage doesn't mean others can, especially the basic gunnie, which I usually use with missiles. Also, swarms are an easy weapon no matter what damage they are putting out. PleaseGÇª CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.29 02:58:00 - [23] - Quote Even if you're making it all up, OP, it sounds closer to truth than fiction to me. +1 Dropsuit Usage Rates
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 03:06:00 - [24] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Fall down off that tower enough times and eventually you soon learn that the forge gun is a beast at any range. That thing has the potential to WTFPWN everything (given the luck of the Irish in battle.) FORGE is beast but now every time and DEFO NOT against proto tank boyko ;) Major issue of forge is not forge itself but suit what is crappy ass slow XD *"Completion by direct action"* `Forge syndicalist of Corrosive Synergy`
Nothing Certain Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 05:22:00 - [25] - Quote Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. But it is a bad design. You can't equate ISK profitibality directly with power, there has to be diminishing returns to the point where more ISK doesn't get you anything extra. This is done for example with proto weapons costing 40+ù standard weapons but only providing 10% DPS, tanks on the other hand cost 5-10+ù a dropsuit but provide 100% more power, that's breaking the model. The price of proto vehicles should be brought way down. Because, that's why.
Leovarian L Lavitz TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 06:08:00 - [26] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Byron Triefletcher wrote: I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this. But it is a bad design. You can't equate ISK profitibality directly with power, there has to be diminishing returns to the point where more ISK doesn't get you anything extra. This is done for example with proto weapons costing 40+ù standard weapons but only providing 10% DPS, tanks on the other hand cost 5-10+ù a dropsuit but provide 100% more power, that's breaking the model. The price of proto vehicles should be brought way down. You mean should be raised 40 times xD Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto Playstation move player
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 6	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:01:00 - [27] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: OP, you're full of bullshit. anyone who pulls out proto swarms or a forge will wreck you, and most of my matches i can't do **** with those commando swarms. every play domination? Anyone who pulls out Proto swarms? A couple of days ago in Line Harvest, it took 4 of us to blow you up and even then, you only died because you got stuck trying to back up through the tabletop while we all focused on you. Let's not forget that your team left or stayed in the redline, so it was really just your tank vs a 14 man team. I think you went about 20-1 that match? You should've just stuck to your hit and run tactics instead of trying to get kills near the objective. You could have gone 20-0.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:21:00 - [28] - Quote I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are. Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks. @English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 fcking guy? I'm down, sign me up right fcking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:35:00 - [29] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: OP, you're full of bullshit. anyone who pulls out proto swarms or a forge will wreck you, and most of my matches i can't do **** with those commando swarms. every play domination? Anyone who pulls out Proto swarms? A couple of days ago in Line Harvest, it took 4 of us to blow you up and even then, you only died because you got stuck trying to back up through the tabletop while we all focused on you. Let's not forget that your team left or stayed in the redline, so it was really just your tank vs a 14 man team. I think you went about 20-1 that match? You should've just stuck to your hit and run tactics instead of trying to get kills near the objective. You could have gone 20-0. my anolog stick messes up alot so i got stuck. btw i was running double hardeners, if i had 1 or 0 my hp went down very quickly where were the forges? why didn't i get flanked? why was i the only tank? where were the RE's? i was in cover the whole time anyways Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:45:00 - [30] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: OP, you're full of bullshit. anyone who pulls out proto swarms or a forge will wreck you, and most of my matches i can't do ** with those commando swarms. every play domination? Anyone who pulls out Proto swarms? A couple of days ago in Line Harvest, it took 4 of us to blow you up and even then, you only died because you got stuck trying to back up through the tabletop while we all focused on you. Let's not forget that your team left or stayed in the redline, so it was really just your tank vs a 14 man team. I think you went about 20-1 that match? You should've just stuck to your hit and run tactics instead of trying to get kills near the objective. You could have gone 20-0. my anolog stick messes up alot so i got stuck. btw i was running double hardeners, if i had 1 or 0 my hp went down very quickly where were the forges? why didn't i get flanked? why was i the only tank? where were the RE's? i was in cover the whole time anyways Your point was that anyone with proto swarms could kill you and now your making excuses when called on your bullshit. You just failed so hard. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ "Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."** añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù

Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:50:00 - [31] - Quote And wanks are for... Minotaur Master Race Penetrating humans since ca 84 BCE.
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 08:02:00 - [32] - Quote let me resphrase it then the only way to survive is with 2 hardeners active atleast long enough, as with 1 hardener i dip below 50% hp alot, from 1 lock on weapon the range nerf was stupid, though Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 08:22:00 - [33] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: let me resphrase it then the only way to survive is with 2 hardeners active atleast long enough, as with 1 hardener i dip below 50% hp alot, from 1 lock on weapon the range nerf was stupid, though When a tank can kill or be killed 1v1 against infantry, you have balanced tanks. When you only die because you get stuck and have at least 4 people focusing fire on you and they have no one shooting at them, you have OP tanks. I honestly feel like saying 'fck it' and pricing all vehicles and vehicle mods/turrets so they cost the same as a dropsuit just so they can't use price as an excuse for being OP. People are constantly saying 'use teamwork to kill tanks, it's easy to squad up and fight together' but tankers in no way have to follow their own advice. 1v1 is balanced, 1v4 where the 1 only dies due to a mistake is not. How you fit the vehicle doesn't factor into that basic equation. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ "Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 08:46:00 - [34] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: duster 35000 wrote: text When you only die because you get stuck and have at least 4 people focusing fire on you and they have no one shooting at them, you have OP tanks. I honestly feel like saying 'f*ck it' and pricing all vehicles and vehicle mods/turrets so they cost the same as a dropsuit just so they can't use price as an excuse for being OP. People are constantly saying 'use teamwork to kill tanks, it's easy to squad up and fight together' but tankers in no way have to follow their own advice. 1v1 is balanced, 1v4 where the 1 only dies due to a mistake is not. your team just didn't know how to AV. i was in cover and using 2 hardeners, and no one flanked me, no forge gun, all you had to do was not staying in 1 spot. if i was using 1 hardener i'd be dead, & have instant death on cooldown. blaster accuracy needs a slight buff, and using 1 hardener needs to be viable, i tried using one, it fails so hard, double hardener needs a penalty, swarm nerf needs undoing. Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 09:13:00 - [35] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: duster 35000 wrote: text When you only die because you get stuck and have at least 4 people focusing fire on you and they have no one shooting at them, you have OP tanks. I honestly feel like saying 'fck it' and pricing all vehicles and vehicle mods/turrets so they cost the same as a dropsuit just so they can't use price as an excuse for being OP. People are constantly saying 'use teamwork to kill tanks, it's easy to squad up and fight together' but tankers in no way have to follow their own advice. 1v1 is balanced, 1v4 where the 1 only dies due to a mistake is not. your team just didn't know how to AV. i was in cover and using 2 hardeners, and no one flanked me, no forge gun, all you had to do was not staying in 1 spot. if i was using 1 hardener i'd be dead, & have instant death on cooldown. blaster accuracy needs a slight buff, and using 1 hardener needs to be viable, i tried using one, it fails so hard, double hardener needs a penalty, swarm nerf needs undoing. Your beef was 'anyone who pulls out proto swarms or a forge will wreck you'. I can pull swarms on an ADV or PRO tank and as long as the driver is even semi competent that tank isn't dying. It requires teamwork to even have a CHANCE to kill a proper tank right now, so regardless of what fits need to be viable for vehicles the problem of 1v1 needs to be addressed first. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ "Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 09:19:00 - [36] - Quote yeah, you can kill people using 1 hardener easy. it's the double hardener imagine a incubus with 1,000-1,500 more hp yeah...also double hardeners don't count for a real fitting, i was mostly talking about just one un nerf swarms, make 1 hardener viable, put penalty on double hardener, slightly increase blaster accuracy, give ADS DR, reduce cost of hulls, reduce cost of proto turret to 100k problem solved Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
rpastry Dead Man's Game 324	Posted - 2015.10.29 10:34:00 - [37] - Quote even with one hardener active a proto madrugar can shrug off a full clip of proto swarms easily. like REALLY easily. 1st round hits; wiyrkomi 1248 base damage +10% suit bonus +14% 2 complex light dmg mods = 1548. Proficiency bonus n/a cos its against the maddys shields, -20% damage vs shields brings it down again to 1238. so that takes out the maddys shield at this point I activate basic light shield booster giving me 900 shield back before 2nd round hits. second round hits, same again for 900 of the 1238 dmg. 338 gets through to armour. this is now modded +15% for proficiency and +20% for profile, = 456, but then -25% for hardener = 342. as im running a 120mm complex plate i have 4585 armour. so this round knocks me down to ~4200. 3rd round hits. 1735 damage (1248+15%+10%+14%) +20% on base for dmg profile = ~1948. reduced 25 % by hardener to ~1500 this puts me on 2700 armour. just under half my total hp. OH but i forgot im repping my armour at 137/sec while this is happening, so i'm actually not as low as that. and by this time im easily either round a corner or 150m away with my overdrive mod. my maths might be off by a few hundred or even a thousand, but fact remains proto swarms on a min commando in no way 'wreck' tanks and no amount of 'git gud' will change that. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 6	Posted - 2015.10.29 10:47:00 - [38] - Quote @Baal Good stuff, man. @Duster/Jerrmy I don't know what else to say. Baal already covered everything. However, I will say this: anyone with Proto swarms has a slight chance to kill your dual-hardened Madrugar gv.0--but only with enough teamwork and if the conditions are just right. You simply died because of an error on your part, but if you hadn't blundered, you would have left that match unscathed. I was Lt Shanx in that match: the triple complex damage modded level 5 proficiency Wirykomi SL wielding MinMando who was chasing you down the entire time. You got me like 5 times that match. Good game.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 10:56:00 - [39] - Quote rpastry wrote: even with one hardener active a proto madrugar can shrug off a full clip of proto swarms easily. like REALLY easily. 1st round hits; wiyrkomi 1248 base damage +10% suit bonus +14% 2 complex light dmg mods = 1548. Proficiency bonus n/a cos its against the maddys shields, -20% damage vs shields brings it down again to 1238. so that takes out the maddys shield at this point I activate basic light shield booster giving me 900 shield back before 2nd round hits. second round hits, same again for 900 of the 1238 dmg. 338 gets through to armour. this is now modded +15% for proficiency and +20% for profile, = 456, but then -25% for hardener = 342. as im running a 120mm complex plate i have 4585 armour. so this round knocks me down to ~4200. 3rd round hits. 1735 damage (1248+15%+10%+14%) +20% on base for dmg profile = ~1948. reduced 25 % by hardener to ~1500 this puts me on 2700 armour. just under half my total hp. OH but i forgot im repping my armour at 137/sec while this is happening, so i'm actually not as low as that. and by this time im easily either round a corner or 150m away with my overdrive mod. my maths might be off by a few hundred or even a thousand, but fact remains proto swarms on a min commando in no way 'wreck' tanks and no amount of 'git gud' will change that. I rarely even use my swarms anymore, I seem to get a higher DPS with my PLC even against armor tanks with my Minmando and a PLC with rapid reload at 5. The reload speed buff of the commando at 5 plus the reload speed at 5 on the PLC makes it far better for dealing with close tanks as you don't have to wait for a lock on and you don't have to deal with the long SL reload animation. Swarms are terrible at trying to deal with them at range anyway, so having the additional accuracy at range from the lock-on from the swarms doesn't really make enough impact to make it worth it for me to run them anymore. I shoot at close tanks until they go away, then go about my buisness. It's too frustratingly futile to try to kill them anymore so there's no point in chasing them like the old days. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 11:04:00 - [40] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: @Baal Good stuff, man. @Duster/Jerrmy I don't know what else to say. Baal already covered everything. However, I will say this: anyone with Proto swarms has a slight chance to kill your dual-hardened Madrugar gv.0--but only with enough teamwork and if the conditions are just right. You simply died because of an error on your part, but if you hadn't blundered, you would have left that match unscathed. I was Lt Shanx in that match: the triple complex damage modded level 5 proficiency Wirykomi SL wielding MinMando who was chasing you down the entire time. You got me like 5 times that match. Good game. my complaint was running 1 hardener isn't viable, and it was my anolog, sadly (banned again ^:)) the whole match when av'd i had 2 hardeners active Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?

duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 11:12:00 - [41] - Quote those points are invalid if you're corner caping no maddy uses a booster 1,500+ dmg with a lockon weapon with hardener active? commando's have low reload anyways yeah, you have to be around corners (like i was) to survive, after reload they're screwed last time i got hit, i haven't played anything but dom but i have to hug corners there i can survive, but the main problem is even with bursting i can't fight back, just no damage or miss. i'd rather not have to hug corners with hardener active to survive, though. I'd also like for 2 hardeners to have a penalty or buff it to 50% & limit it to one, or something, 2 might be too much DR, not sure on numbers Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
rpastry Dead Man's Game 325	Posted - 2015.10.29 11:22:00 - [42] - Quote duster you're proving my point nicely. you've already stated that vs at least 2 (baal claims 4 and i've no reason not to believe that) experienced players running proto AV you only died because you had a controller malfunction. and 20-1 (20-0 without controller malfunction remember) is fine because 20 kills is you 'surviving but not fighting back' and killing shanks proto minmando 150k+ ISK suit 5 times is fine because your skills are immense. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 487	Posted - 2015.10.29 11:37:00 - [43] - Quote rpastry wrote: duster you're proving my point nicely. you've already stated that vs at least 4 experienced players running proto AV you only died because you had a controller malfunction. and 20-1 (20-0 without controller malfunction remember) is fine because 20 kills is you 'surviving but not fighting back' and killing shanks proto minmando 150k+ ISK suit 5 times is fine because your skills are immense. yeah, because 2 hardeners are too strong, 1 is meh, and lets not forget this, i was constantly going back in cover with 2 hardeners active. they were also close range (10m or 20m) while i used a damage mod using broken fits, basically i was also not getting hit by four players, at least in quick succession, or i was, but backed away Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 6	Posted - 2015.10.29 12:37:00 - [44] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: rpastry wrote: duster you're proving my point nicely. you've already stated that vs at least 4 experienced players running proto AV you only died because you had a controller malfunction. and 20-1 (20-0 without controller malfunction remember) is fine because 20 kills is you 'surviving but not fighting back' and killing shanks proto minmando 150k+ ISK suit 5 times is fine because your skills are immense. yeah, because 2 hardeners are too strong, 1 is meh, and lets not forget this, i was constantly going back in cover with 2 hardeners active. they were also close range (10m or 20m) while i used a damage mod using broken fits, basically i was also not getting hit by four players, at least in quick succession, or i was, but backed away And that makes you a competent tanker. You know when to engage and know when to retreat. You make use of cover and escape to regen armor when you're low. You picked off your most threatening targets and did well to stay alive for as long as you did. This is something any decent tanker will do to ensure that he or she gets the most out of fielding such expensive vehicles. However, you did all of that solo. Don't you find that odd, in a way that makes you think, "Hey, isn't this a little too easy?" Remember, most of your team left battle while the rest retreated to do who knows what in the redline. You had almost no support but still managed to do well. Our side was met with no real opposition, aside from yourself, but we took a while to down you: only having the opportunity to do so when you got stuck because of technical difficulties. If you could do that by yourself with a controller malfunction, imagine if you had the support of other players and your controller was working properly. You'd never die. Want to know what I can do consistently as a solo AVer? I can do enough damage to scare you into retreating. That's about it.
duster 35000 488	Posted - 2015.10.29 12:50:00 - [45] - Quote yeah, sure, but there were only swarms hitting me, i think, not sure i would like to know why i didn't get flanked, or remoted, i was hoping i'd see remotes i only lived because i had 2 hardeners, though, 70% DR? i'm not sure on the numbers Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 13:02:00 - [46] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: And wanks are for... SOONtm
duster 35000 488	Posted - 2015.10.29 13:10:00 - [47] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: And wanks are for... is this a meem i'm not aware of? Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 13:35:00 - [48] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: However, you did all of that solo. Don't you find that odd, in a way that makes you think, "Hey, isn't this a little too easy?" Welcome to the world of a shotgun / re scout or a minmatar assault with a bio fit , shotgun and re's / pe's . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.29 13:47:00 - [49] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: However, you did all of that solo. Don't you find that odd, in a way that makes you think, "Hey, isn't this a little too easy?" Welcome to the world of a shotgun / re scout or a minmatar assault with a bio fit , shotgun and re's / pe's . Last we heard from Rattati, Scouts were at the bottom of the KDR pile, with average KDRs at the proto tier lower than even Logis! Shouldn't "easy" correspond to high KDR, like we see with tankers? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.29 14:26:00 - [50] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are. Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks. @English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 fcking guy? I'm down, sign me up right fcking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta. AV solo a HAV in Chromosome? Was that when 3k+ dmg no skill invisible swarms were about? Takes no skill btw which sums you up, who are you btw?. Even back in the early days of PC vehicles had uses more than now even with broken swarms but 2 failed vehicle reworks, countless nerfs, countless removal of skills and modules and this is what we have left, deleting vehicles would be a major improvement overall at the current rate. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''

Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 15:38:00 - [51] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are. Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks. @English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 fcking guy? I'm down, sign me up right fcking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta. AV solo a HAV in Chromosome? Was that when 3k+ dmg no skill invisible swarms were about? Takes no skill btw which sums you up, who are you btw?. Even back in the early days of PC vehicles had uses more than now even with broken swarms but 2 failed vehicle reworks, countless nerfs, countless removal of skills and modules and this is what we have left, deleting vehicles would be a major improvement overall at the current rate. And of course you omit the countless off and on buffs that have gone on to vehicles through that whole process. You can posture, slur people and omit facts as much as you like but none of it will make you correct. The removals were considered by CCP to be necessary to slowly balance them over time with the new changes. While that choice was debatable, the current state of tanks is not to any intellectually honest individual. You're ignorance does nothing but shine throughout your posts. For instance: 'AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull.' If a tank is stupid enough to sit still and be knifed repeatedly AV is OP? This statement is so ignorant that I can't believe your fingers would allow you to type it. More AV options does nothing to make AV stronger, it only serves to make it more common. Show us a video of someone going on a multi-PROtank killing spree with knives (or any other weapon that damages the hull which you referred to) in a match against competent drivers and then someone might take that sentence seriously. Until then it's nothing but one of the most laughable trolls ever posted on the forums. You think tank/AV balance was better in Chromosome? Put it back and watch your K/D drop like a rock, I'll sign that pettition any day. As for removing tanks, I there is nothing that I could possibly care less about happening. They are nothing but K/D farms for people with no gungame and pretty much always have been. Keep them and balance them or remove them and stop all the whining, either is fine with me. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 2	Posted - 2015.10.29 15:54:00 - [52] - Quote I just specced out of AV. All you need is lai dai packed av grenades. I got them when i bought cores. I dont think anyone that only tanks or AVs understands how foolish this last set of tweaks have been. Whatever, most people who could participate in the future of this game have already left. Its cash grab and placating crybabies until the servers shut down. Crush them
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:11:00 - [53] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are. Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks. @English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 fcking guy? I'm down, sign me up right fcking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta. AV solo a HAV in Chromosome? Was that when 3k+ dmg no skill invisible swarms were about? Takes no skill btw which sums you up, who are you btw?. Even back in the early days of PC vehicles had uses more than now even with broken swarms but 2 failed vehicle reworks, countless nerfs, countless removal of skills and modules and this is what we have left, deleting vehicles would be a major improvement overall at the current rate. And of course you omit the countless off and on buffs that have gone on to vehicles through that whole process. You can posture, slur people and omit facts as much as you like but none of it will make you correct. The removals were considered by CCP to be necessary to slowly balance them over time with the new changes. While that choice was debatable, the current state of tanks is not to any intellectually honest individual. You're ignorance does nothing but shine throughout your posts. For instance: 'AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull.' If a tank is stupid enough to sit still and be knifed repeatedly AV is OP? This statement is so ignorant that I can't believe your fingers would allow you to type it. More AV options does nothing to make AV stronger, it only serves to make it more common. Show us a video of someone going on a multi-PROtank killing spree with knives (or any other weapon that damages the hull which you referred to) in a match against competent drivers and then someone might take that sentence seriously. Until then it's nothing but one of the most laughable trolls ever posted on the forums. You think tank/AV balance was better in Chromosome? Put it back and watch your K/D drop like a rock, I'll sign that pettition any day. As for removing tanks, I there is nothing that I could possibly care less about happening. They are nothing but K/D farms for people with no gungame and pretty much always have been. Keep them and balance them or remove them and stop all the whining, either is fine with me. Slur people, i called you bad, did you happen to read your post? No you were too buttblasted to do that. Overall vehicles have had more nerfs and removals than buffs and additions. Why should a knife do anything apart from scratch the paintwork? I have jumped on top of a tank and hacked away at it and i think why am i allowed to do this? At least with an AV weapon you know it was built to combat vehicles and not be used to spread butter. The recent hotfix buffed it so it is easier to do and easier to do with more weapons, im suprised that they havnt made it that scanners can strip off the shield. Chromosome was more fun, then again playing PC everyday against some of the best pilots in the game made it more fun, every single vehicle pilot i can think off during those days has quit the game and moved on, mainly to PS2 where vehicles have a purpose. K/D farms only if you did nothing, take no action you get farmed, dont see how that is a pilots fault but it usually is in someway and the pilot gets nerfed in someway. Stop with all the whining lol, it is like being given a house only for them to remove all the walls and the roof while leaving you with a sofa and half a table, they might aswell take all the lot since they took the majority of it. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Vulpes Dolosus Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:25:00 - [54] - Quote Shield tanks are fine. Armor could use a little rebalancing. Firstly is their speed. Bring them more inline with shield tanks, having slightly faster base speed, slightly slower acceleration, and buff their god forsaken turn speed. This should keep them from nitroing and escaping AV plus strafing missiles and rail shots. Secondly, give a longer interval between heavy rep cycles, compensating with more rep per cycle. I don't think active reps would be good. The longer interval should leave an opening for AV and turrets to alpha through the armor reps. Just my thoughts. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
duster 35000 490	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:25:00 - [55] - Quote >tfw have good gun game & good pilot too bad blaster accuracy still needs tweaking. too bad NK's can't do **** to maddy's too bad packed remotes still do 0 dmg on a still vehicle Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
duster 35000 490	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:27:00 - [56] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Shield tanks are fine. Armor could use a little rebalancing. Firstly is their speed. Bring them more inline with shield tanks, having slightly faster base speed, slightly slower acceleration, and buff their god forsaken turn speed. This should keep them from nitroing and escaping AV plus strafing missiles and rail shots. Secondly, give a longer interval between heavy rep cycles, compensating with more rep per cycle. I don't think active reps would be good. The longer interval should leave an opening for AV and turrets to alpha through the armor reps. Just my thoughts. shield is the alpha armor is not, max 2s interval & double the reps if they do it. Molestia approved. We'll bang ok?
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2015.10.29 19:53:00 - [57] - Quote rpastry wrote: so from your statement; vehicles were stronger when proto tanks didnt exist They're PRO in name only. swarms were weaker when they had 400m range and could blindfire How is locking down an entire map from a single position weak? forges were weaker when they had 600m range (was it further my memory fails me) and splash damage There are more weak points on a vehicle now than there ever were, making it easy to get a damage bonus. anyway im not complaining, i'm tanking now. I've made an honest evaluation based on playing both sides. lol you're arguing against a guy that started tanking literally since the beginning. You're waaaay out of your league.
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2015.10.29 19:57:00 - [58] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are. lol you have no idea what you're talking about. AV couldn't solo a tank during replication; missiles could hit the entire length of the map and essentially alpha another tank if the pilot didn't know what they were doing. Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks. He started using tanks since the very beginning, so in reality, you don't know what you're talking about. @English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 fcking guy? I'm down, sign me up right fcking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta. lol you seriously don't have a clue. Sad
rpastry Dead Man's Game 329	Posted - 2015.10.29 21:35:00 - [59] - Quote drivel. ps l2quote [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Azel Xerath Horizons' Edge 40	Posted - 2015.10.29 21:40:00 - [60] - Quote I'll come back and try Tanks again later today. Dedicated Vehicle Specialist

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.29 22:14:00 - [61] - Quote Azel Xerath wrote: I'll come back and try Tanks again later today. Dude they are still terrible. Not terrible as in under-performing but terrible as representations of armoured warfare with no power behind their movements or shot, not momentum, and sure as **** no middle ground being being useless and powerful. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
rpastry Dead Man's Game 329	Posted - 2015.10.30 09:48:00 - [62] - Quote Another night, some more tank battles; still zero losses. Lost count as I don't run one every game but must be 20+ now with around 3 million isk profit (almost 3 more tanks, not that i've needed any). Getting a bit more confident vs. enemy tanks, killed a few. Best result so far 15-0 including 3 enemy tanks. Without the enemy tanks keeping me on my toes I could've probably killed more infantry. I also had to take care of a couple of turrets that kept being flipped which took some time out of my game. Downsides? blaster aim is hit and miss, but not major handicap as it works both ways - WTF i didn't hit them and WTF they just died instantly. I felt the need to pop out and kill a swarmer on foot at one point leaving my tank vulnerable to being stolen. This highlights another silliness of tanks; teleporting in and out of the drivers seat - it really needs a timer like hack timer or recall timer (I don't mean that long - a few seconds). For lore sakes you could call it a local uplink field. A bluetooth version of a standard uplinks wifi. Some maps tanks are pretty irrelevant, I had to risk foot war with other mortals instead and died a bit thus tarnishing my previously immaculate weekly KDR. Still nothing has happened to change my opinion it's by far the most risk-free way of playing dust. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 491	Posted - 2015.10.30 09:51:00 - [63] - Quote So you fought noobs the entire time? gg fam I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
rpastry Dead Man's Game 330	Posted - 2015.10.30 09:59:00 - [64] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: So you fought noobs the entire time? gg fam No I didn't fight noobs all the time. If you have access to a game mode where you can suffer no losses and fight noobs all the time please let me know how to access it. I'm queueing all-modes in pubs which means 90% dom. Some games have had little serious opposition others have had full squads of PC experienced corps pretty angry with me. My K/D for the month including the event where I was infantry and pushing fairly gung-ho for kills is over 4 and my w/l is about 2 so i'm unlikely to have fresh-from-the-academy level MU. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.30 10:21:00 - [65] - Quote Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
duster 35000 491	Posted - 2015.10.30 10:36:00 - [66] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. that's because everyone runs double hardeners now I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 19:36:00 - [67] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. Everymatch. Im not sure how matchmaking works for you but i have 113m sp and get pitted against multiple squads whether im solo or squad deep. This leads to my team quitting or hiding. Im left to face an entire team of squads solo. Its fun but its a losing battle. Crush them
DDx77 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 428	Posted - 2015.10.30 20:50:00 - [68] - Quote Although I think you are probably using your tanks when you know you have good match ups And there is also the possibility you are actually a good tanker Your main point is correct and valid. Running AV is a nightmare and unrewarding or boring and a waste of time The opposite is true now for ADS pilots as they are now getting swatted out out of the skies. They have never gotten the AV vs vehicle balance right.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 465	Posted - 2015.10.30 21:19:00 - [69] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. You do realize in order to profit off of that HAV, you have to pull at least a 5 game ZERO loss streak (assuming a avr. gain of about 200k), right?
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 22:09:00 - [70] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull. AV was harder for you in Chromosome even with the bugged 400m invisible going around corners swarms. I really cannot see how you can complain, vehicles have never been weaker, AV has never been this strong overall apart from the 3k+ dmg invisible following around corners locking on through cover and firing up in the air when not even looking at the vehicle swarms which still has the vast majority of them problems today. actually it was easier at one point like early uprising i think it was ..whenever it was that my ishukone assault forge plus my logi lav = 0 tanks but now aday is close to that yes..av is on an upswing back to being broken as is it is far to easy but i remember when it was even easier the cycle repeats as always takahiro pc master race PORT IT CCP

Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 22:10:00 - [71] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. Everymatch. Im not sure how matchmaking works for you but i have 113m sp and get pitted against multiple squads whether im solo or squad deep. This leads to my team quitting or hiding. Im left to face an entire team of squads solo. Its fun but its a losing battle. 120 m sp and i have the same exp is why i specced back out of tanks pc master race PORT IT CCP
Nothing Certain Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.10.30 23:26:00 - [72] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: [quote=Byron Triefletcher]I'm not a tanker, so I don't really know, but someone help me out here... ...don't well-fit proto tanks cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1M ISK? I'm basing that off a recollection I have from somewhere, so it could be way off. Please correct me. But if that's somewhat accurate, and if the average round yields 150k ISK, then if you get a tank blown up every 6-7 rounds, you're breaking even. To be profitable, you gotta do better than that, maybe getting blown up only once every 10-15 rounds. Again, please correct my numbers if they're WAY off, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, your tank SHOULDN'T be blown up very often. It's a very expensive unit, powerful by design, that's supposed to last you a long time. I'm OK with this.[/quote But it is a bad design. You can't equate ISK profitibality directly with power, there has to be diminishing returns to the point where more ISK doesn't get you anything extra. This is done for example with proto weapons costing 40+ù standard weapons but only providing 10% DPS, tanks on the other hand cost 5-10+ù a dropsuit but provide 100% more power, that's breaking the model. The price of proto vehicles should be brought way down. You mean should be raised 40 times xD No, they should be cheaper but easier to kill. I think the militia tanks have the right balance, they are pretty easy to kill but they are cheap. The risk/reward on them is about the same as using a dropsuit. Because, that's why.
duster 35000 514	Posted - 2015.10.30 23:37:00 - [73] - Quote DDx77 wrote: Although I think you are probably using your tanks when you know you have good match ups And there is also the possibility you are actually a good tanker Your main point is correct and valid. Running AV is a nightmare and unrewarding or boring and a waste of time The opposite is true now for ADS pilots as they are now getting swatted out out of the skies. They have never gotten the AV vs vehicle balance right. well when tanks aren't easy to kill i'll stop having 2 hardeners active I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.30 23:41:00 - [74] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull. AV was harder for you in Chromosome even with the bugged 400m invisible going around corners swarms. I really cannot see how you can complain, vehicles have never been weaker, AV has never been this strong overall apart from the 3k+ dmg invisible following around corners locking on through cover and firing up in the air when not even looking at the vehicle swarms which still has the vast majority of them problems today. actually it was easier at one point like early uprising i think it was ..whenever it was that my ishukone assault forge plus my logi lav = 0 tanks but now aday is close to that yes..av is on an upswing back to being broken as is it is far to easy but i remember when it was even easier the cycle repeats as always takahiro At least you had to aim. Uprising was when PC started i think, i cannot remember these days but back when PC started vehicles were varied and had more skills and modules even when dealing with 3k dmg invisible swarms but now everything does damage to you while you have less skills/vehicles and modules but AV has more options. It is easier for AV the way i see it because pilots have less options to actually defend themselves from everything else. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
rpastry Dead Man's Game 333	Posted - 2015.10.31 13:03:00 - [75] - Quote Another day, still no losses. I'm losing track my tank is so old it's starting to smell bad inside and all the paint has worn off it. I think back to AV and the how the risk/reward seemed unfair and how bad I must have been at AV as it's so easy and i'm a scrub and my fits are crap and i'm a noob and I cant aim and my swarms are OP and wreck and are noskill but I still cant kill tanks and tanks have never been so weak. Then I get in my tank and realise all this time i've been doing it wrong I'm actually a tank god and all those AV trying to kill me every match are noskill noob scrubs who cant aim and have weak fits and cant use teamwork (I Don't need teamwork I'm a tank god I operate independently from the game going on around me in my steel bubble). And I am so skilled I can activate modules while fighting and run away and come back and run away again and play like all the other tank gods. I'm pushing more and my record is now 22-0 with some noskill scrub AV trying to kill me probalby in MLT lol scrubs. I also watch other tanks go X-0 and play like pussies COUGH sorry TANK GODS and have zero effect on the outcome of the game. TANK GODS UNITE. TOGETHER WE WILL RID THE GAME OF AV SCRUBS AND ROLL UNOPPOSED TO VIC... TO ZERO DEATH BATTLES! [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 325	Posted - 2015.10.31 13:28:00 - [76] - Quote Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
rpastry Dead Man's Game 333	Posted - 2015.10.31 13:45:00 - [77] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? nope, different kettle of fish that isnt it? one leader calling the shots 16 players working in cohesion with enemy proto tanks and forge gunners on overwatch, and PC tankers usually get paid for their losses. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 520	Posted - 2015.10.31 13:55:00 - [78] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? >tanking in pc I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 325	Posted - 2015.10.31 15:24:00 - [79] - Quote rpastry wrote: Press Attache wrote: Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? nope, different kettle of fish that isnt it? one leader calling the shots 16 players working in cohesion with enemy proto tanks and forge gunners on overwatch, and PC tankers usually get paid for their losses. Are you only tanking in pubs? No FW? Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 325	Posted - 2015.10.31 15:27:00 - [80] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Press Attache wrote: Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? >tanking in pc Sadly, quoted for truth. Good on Iron delta for anti dropships work, pretty meh on everything else. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.

duster 35000 526	Posted - 2015.10.31 15:30:00 - [81] - Quote Press Attache wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Press Attache wrote: Other than the copious amount of cool story bro on display here, have you tanked in a PC? >tanking in pc Sadly, quoted for truth. Good on Iron delta for anti dropships work, pretty meh on everything else. lets not forget the horid blaster accuracy i've stopped using my incubus in dom, it dies in 3-4 swarms with hardener active, reload is too short on commando's I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Sylwester Dziewiecki 514	Posted - 2015.10.31 15:59:00 - [82] - Quote rpastry wrote: I did the event with a 40m sp alt and specced gallente havs. About 15 matches later and I havent lost one in battle. Compared to the frustration of runnning AV it's an absolute joke how little risk there is running a proto tank in pubs. This from a tank noob. Some matches it seems half the enemy team has switched to swarms, which do absolutely FA damage to my perma-hardened fortress and are trivial to drive away from. Been a bit more wary of forges and PLC if they get on roofs, once even got me down to 50% armour. So I drive somewhere they can't shoot me. I've been a FG on a roof staring down at the battle taking the odd pot-shot at infantry and hoping the tank comes back into sight before I either run out of ammo die of boredom get sniped or fall off and take my chances in a gimped fit vs a pack of angry scouts who I shine up as a red dot for all to see while they pick their moment to shoot me in the back. I've been a swarmer in my gimped fit running and running to get in range to fling a couple of AV nades and lock a full clip onto a tank only for it to disappear round a corner and then see three or four red dots home in on my position. But now i'm a tank. I kill a few, some swap fits to kill me, I drive round the map grinning and picking off the weak and unwary, I get a fright when my shield disappears, I drive some more, maybe something else hits me. If so I drive off, mostly nothing else happens so I carry on as above. It's absolutely confirmed what I suspected, there is a massive imbalance. Cue tanker alts pretending ot be AV gods claiming to pop 10 proto tanks before breakfast. TL:DR? I've been AV since beta, it's hard. I've been a tanker since Tuesday, it's a piece of ****. Thing is that being successful AV it's not hard, it's challenging, and you definitely was not good one - thats why you think that there is a massive imbalance. G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
rpastry Dead Man's Game 333	Posted - 2015.10.31 16:21:00 - [83] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Thing is that being successful AV it's not hard, it's challenging, and you definitely was not good one - thats why you think that there is a massive imbalance. so if i was so bad at av why am i finding tanking really easy? [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
rpastry Dead Man's Game 333	Posted - 2015.10.31 17:33:00 - [84] - Quote just lost my first tank. Duelling with an enemy tank got a bit stuck and a proto forge gunner on a roof got me. good team effort from them; AV plus a tank can kill a tank. \o/ I have earned 4 spare tanks in the meantime so im not too gutted. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 529	Posted - 2015.11.01 11:07:00 - [85] - Quote rpastry wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Thing is that being successful AV it's not hard, it's challenging, and you definitely was not good one - thats why you think that there is a massive imbalance. so if i was so bad at av why am i finding tanking really easy? because you have double hardeners and your enemies suck at AV. if you're running away from 1 guy with a hardener active, then that's not OP. and you can't kill decent players at enough range with the blaster turret. I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 476	Posted - 2015.11.01 11:27:00 - [86] - Quote And this is why vehicles need cap... Then no one would say it's easy... Hmm. Tank pilots be dying left right and center... All these 2x hards with active armor repair while shooting a hybrid turret would be suicide on a cap based system. Only the good ones will stand out. Forever ADS. Best role.
duster 35000 529	Posted - 2015.11.01 12:11:00 - [87] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: And this is why vehicles need cap... Then no one would say it's easy... Hmm. Tank pilots be dying left right and center... All these 2x hards with active armor repair while shooting a hybrid turret would be suicide on a cap based system. Only the good ones will stand out. this tbh fam I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.11.01 12:37:00 - [88] - Quote runs a proto tank. comes to conclusion proto is powerful. what insight. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
duster 35000 532	Posted - 2015.11.01 14:18:00 - [89] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: runs a proto tank. comes to conclusion proto is powerful. what insight. >runs broken double hardener fit against noobs >calls it op SHIGGY DIGGY DOO I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
The KTM Duke Capital Acquisitions LLC 995	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:03:00 - [90] - Quote rpastry wrote: I did the event with a 40m sp alt and specced gallente havs. About 15 matches later and I havent lost one in battle. Compared to the frustration of runnning AV it's an absolute joke how little risk there is running a proto tank in pubs. This from a tank noob. Some matches it seems half the enemy team has switched to swarms, which do absolutely FA damage to my perma-hardened fortress and are trivial to drive away from. Been a bit more wary of forges and PLC if they get on roofs, once even got me down to 50% armour. So I drive somewhere they can't shoot me. I've been a FG on a roof staring down at the battle taking the odd pot-shot at infantry and hoping the tank comes back into sight before I either run out of ammo die of boredom get sniped or fall off and take my chances in a gimped fit vs a pack of angry scouts who I shine up as a red dot for all to see while they pick their moment to shoot me in the back. I've been a swarmer in my gimped fit running and running to get in range to fling a couple of AV nades and lock a full clip onto a tank only for it to disappear round a corner and then see three or four red dots home in on my position. But now i'm a tank. I kill a few, some swap fits to kill me, I drive round the map grinning and picking off the weak and unwary, I get a fright when my shield disappears, I drive some more, maybe something else hits me. If so I drive off, mostly nothing else happens so I carry on as above. It's absolutely confirmed what I suspected, there is a massive imbalance. Cue tanker alts pretending ot be AV gods claiming to pop 10 proto tanks before breakfast. TL:DR? I've been AV since beta, it's hard. I've been a tanker since Tuesday, it's a piece of **. Only 1 thing to say: sitting in the deepest redline with a tank doesnt mean you are a tanker though a kd ***, 2 weeks ago tanks were bad then at the moment i cant play but i still remember "pro tankers" farming easy kills with 0 risks. In december it will be 2 years since when tanks died because of ccp, if you enjoy these tanks that means there is no Av or they dont have any idea on how to kill a tank Out for 5 weeks, broken arm // RIP KTM Duke o7. La salute non è un gioco.

rpastry Dead Man's Game 335	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:25:00 - [91] - Quote I'm running blaster tanks; not much to do with them in the redline. I've been presented with every lame excuse and trash talk trolling from tankers calling me **, and that all the AV i've been up against are **. Truth is i've run 30+ matches queuing random pubs and I've lost one tank to a combination of AV and an enemy tank. That's the reality. I did it for lols and to prove to myself what I suspected. And I have. More so that I even suspected. Proto tanks are the biggest crutch in the game. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 325	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:30:00 - [92] - Quote Are you running solo or with 3 infantry? Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:38:00 - [93] - Quote rpastry wrote: I'm running blaster tanks; not much to do with them in the redline. I've been presented with every lame excuse and trash talk trolling from tankers calling me **, and that all the AV i've been up against are **. Truth is i've run 30+ matches queuing random pubs and I've lost one tank to a combination of AV and an enemy tank. That's the reality. I did it for lols and to prove to myself what I suspected. And I have. More so that I even suspected. Proto tanks are the biggest crutch in the game. thats your personal experience and thats fine. Me and my squad mates have a contradictory habit of killing all sorts of tanks, standard, adv, proto, blaster, rail, missile, shield, armor, whatever, you bring it in, you're going to lose it. And we dont need to be throwing away 150k suits to do so. By your own acounts you are a real scrub at AV but decent in a tank and good for you, you found something you were good at as opposed to something you were terrible at. Doesn't mean every AV'er is as scrubby as you, or that every tank can go 30 matches and one loss (which i dont believe for a second) As long as you declare your own hyperbole as the universal model of how dust plays, the less inclined i am to believe any account you bring up. and the longer it goes on the longer its exposed to derision. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
rpastry Dead Man's Game 335	Posted - 2015.11.01 16:01:00 - [94] - Quote Yeh im not rising to that troll post. nice try. BTW i didnt imply tanks dont retreat to the redline, you created your own meaning there... not that you need the redline in any map with a large socket theres plenty of cover and/or distance. I've run 4 matches with a gunner i know, the rest were just blue dots who occasionally kill infantry but mostly take potshots at railgun turrets. with 2 infantry i knew it would be proper ******* lol, god mode plus. As well as running tanks on my alt im doing other battles on foot and noticing players have specced into tanks and are going 20-0 etc... players I recognise and can kill as infantry. This is encouraging as it means its reaching FOTM status so a nerf should be incoming, hopefully soon. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 534	Posted - 2015.11.01 16:09:00 - [95] - Quote rpastry wrote: Yeh im not rising to that troll post. nice try. BTW i didnt imply tanks dont retreat to the redline, you created your own meaning there... not that you need the redline in any map with a large socket theres plenty of cover and/or distance. I've run 4 matches with a gunner i know, the rest were just blue dots who occasionally kill infantry but mostly take potshots at railgun turrets. with 2 infantry i knew it would be proper ******* lol, god mode plus. As well as running tanks on my alt im doing other battles on foot and noticing players have specced into tanks and are going 20-0 etc... players I recognise and can kill as infantry. This is encouraging as it means its reaching FOTM status so a nerf should be incoming, hopefully soon. i don't know what game you're playing, but unless i have 2 hardeners active i have to run away, not going to bother wasting 75 bullets to kill on infantry. i haven't been killed by a single blaster tank in october, so easy to hide from I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.11.01 17:11:00 - [96] - Quote defensive much? Sure 4 of us can pop a tank and get on our with our lives. Or one of us can call in a proto tank and deal with it. or leave one guy one rooftop somewhere. But its a bit stupid to send one guy to fight a tank when all 4 of us have AV options available. Sure assault could 1v1 a heavy, but 4 v 1 that heavy and that heavy is down without risk to us. Same thing applies. Outnumbering one enemy doent mean "OMG THAT GUY IS SO OP HELP ME GUYZ PLEASE!" Its why we have squads, together you can take out more threats far more effieciently than any one player can do alone. You want to talk balance, then lets bring up Balance vs AV? Which sorts of AV? AV Balance vs Other Tank hulls? Balance vs other Turrets? Balance vs What tier of opponents? Instead of that all i see is Tanks god mode, muh x amount of matches without dying therefore it is OP. The same hyperbolic arguments i see for everything on here. "Just specced into scrambler rifles went 50-2 nerf them." Just specced into dropships i went 30-0. Nerf them." If think not beleiveing your story defines you as a liar, well, i dont really care. I'm certainly less inclined to believe your story if thats all you have to underline your premise. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
rpastry Dead Man's Game 336	Posted - 2015.11.01 18:23:00 - [97] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Sure assault could 1v1 a heavy, but 4 v 1 that heavy and that heavy is down without risk to us. Same thing applies. . love the way you have to shift to an analogy about infantry suits becasue stating 'Sure 1 proto AV could 1v1 a Proto tank' is blatantly stretching it. I'm pretty sure the metrics will back me up and tanks will get nerfed, just a question of time really. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 535	Posted - 2015.11.01 19:03:00 - [98] - Quote rpastry wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Sure assault could 1v1 a heavy, but 4 v 1 that heavy and that heavy is down without risk to us. Same thing applies. . love the way you have to shift to an analogy about infantry suits becasue stating 'Sure 1 proto AV could 1v1 a Proto tank' is blatantly stretching it. I'm pretty sure the metrics will back me up and proto tanks will get nerfed, just a question of time really. ***** you serious? proto tanks are already expensive and are only good with 2 hardeners, if you run one, well, you probably won't be able to kill your attacker. if anything, blasters need a accuracy buff. i also find i'm the only one pulling out tanks & ADS's. all decent players have a commando with swarms I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?
rpastry Dead Man's Game 338	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:48:00 - [99] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: rpastry wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Sure assault could 1v1 a heavy, but 4 v 1 that heavy and that heavy is down without risk to us. Same thing applies. . love the way you have to shift to an analogy about infantry suits becasue stating 'Sure 1 proto AV could 1v1 a Proto tank' is blatantly stretching it. I'm pretty sure the metrics will back me up and proto tanks will get nerfed, just a question of time really. *** you serious? proto tanks are already expensive and are only good with 2 hardeners, if you run one, well, you probably won't be able to kill your attacker. if anything, blasters need a accuracy buff. i also find i'm the only one pulling out tanks & ADS's. all decent players have a commando with swarms swarms are absolutely useless vs tanks. if youre a tank and you're dying to swarms then you really need to rethink your game. commando also has no nades and is slow as **. If youre complaining about commandos with swarms I can only conclude you're a really poor tanker. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
duster 35000 536	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:08:00 - [100] - Quote nah, just that if i only have 1 hardener active i have to flee or get blown up the commando's thing i mentioned is alot of players can AV and AI no problem i haven't died to swarms because i have to retreat or be hugging a corner, as alot of the time even when bursting shooting back is useless I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?

4lbert Wesker Standby Retaliation 541	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:32:00 - [101] - Quote Wait,someone mentioned weak spot? Tank have weak spots? WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations 908	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:42:00 - [102] - Quote rpastry wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Sure assault could 1v1 a heavy, but 4 v 1 that heavy and that heavy is down without risk to us. Same thing applies. . love the way you have to shift to an analogy about infantry suits becasue stating 'Sure 1 proto AV could 1v1 a Proto tank' is blatantly stretching it. I'm pretty sure the metrics will back me up and proto tanks will get nerfed, just a question of time really. 1 Proto AV can take out a Proto HAV, assuming AV can hit the weakspot, has element of surprise and/or force the HAV into making a mistake under pressure (eg: rolling backwards onto something and getting stuck.) Not saying it's easy to do or happens all the time but it is doable. More often then not AV ends up acting as area denial to the HAV rather than killing it, which works just as well for the team. Purifier. First Class.
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations 908	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:43:00 - [103] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: Wait,someone mentioned weak spot? Tank have weak spots? Power Cell/Fuel Tank to the rear of the HAV is the weak point. Purifier. First Class.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:53:00 - [104] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Funny how people who call themselves tankers and those who never play the game are defending tanks as if they were weak. Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... and still !! But how many times does this happen anyway ? Best TLDR ever btw : clean and concise. You do realize in order to profit off of that HAV, you have to pull at least a 5 game ZERO loss streak (assuming a avr. gain of about 200k), right? How much do you think it costs an infantry player to use full proto gear during a full match facing decent players ? Die 2 times and you're already losing money. Die more, and you can lose so much more than what you can earn in 5 battles. This is again another stupid counter argument you gave me that only prove one thing: you know little about the game ^^ Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
Shiny Mudkip 23	Posted - 2015.11.02 03:09:00 - [105] - Quote You're a wank. Team killed 350 Blueberries to complete the Crimson Harvest event. Yes, I am that cruel.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.02 04:51:00 - [106] - Quote rpastry wrote: I did the event with a 40m sp alt and specced gallente havs. About 15 matches later and I havent lost one in battle. Compared to the frustration of runnning AV it's an absolute joke how little risk there is running a proto tank in pubs. This from a tank noob. Some matches it seems half the enemy team has switched to swarms, which do absolutely FA damage to my perma-hardened fortress and are trivial to drive away from. Been a bit more wary of forges and PLC if they get on roofs, once even got me down to 50% armour. So I drive somewhere they can't shoot me. I've been a FG on a roof staring down at the battle taking the odd pot-shot at infantry and hoping the tank comes back into sight before I either run out of ammo die of boredom get sniped or fall off and take my chances in a gimped fit vs a pack of angry scouts who I shine up as a red dot for all to see while they pick their moment to shoot me in the back. I've been a swarmer in my gimped fit running and running to get in range to fling a couple of AV nades and lock a full clip onto a tank only for it to disappear round a corner and then see three or four red dots home in on my position. But now i'm a tank. I kill a few, some swap fits to kill me, I drive round the map grinning and picking off the weak and unwary, I get a fright when my shield disappears, I drive some more, maybe something else hits me. If so I drive off, mostly nothing else happens so I carry on as above. It's absolutely confirmed what I suspected, there is a massive imbalance. Cue tanker alts pretending ot be AV gods claiming to pop 10 proto tanks before breakfast. TL:DR? I've been AV since beta, it's hard. I've been a tanker since Tuesday, it's a piece of ****. First, I dare to say that you being on the winning side for 15 rounds in a row isn't the result of you being in a tank. Sure it you might've been a help, a big one even, but that should not be considered as evidence. Second, you might be tank noob, but you have massive ace in sleeve: deep understanding of AV mechanics. You know the limits of AV so you have a huge advantage in surviving (with certain tactics). The definition of what is OP varies from person to person. Seems that you value surviving a munition exchange a lot. That's right, it is a big thing. But, barely surviving is not OP. (in some sense if someone is unkillable, then yes that is bad game design. But if that unkillability comes in price of not participating in winning, then again OP is not the case.) By your testimony, it appears that you used so called 'smart tanking' - tactics of hit'n'run, not overcommiting yourself, always making sure you have escape route etc. Because of that you had low death rate. The price is, of course, staying out of hot spots and red nests which often are the objectives. Fully cooling off at red line is standard practice, with same price: not participating for period of time. If the tanker ignores the rules of 'smart tanking', he is bound to lose tanks often enough. The point is, the balance isn't terribly wrong at this time. Sure, careful tanks are annoyingly hard to kill. But then again by not playing right, the tanks are toast. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.02 05:52:00 - [107] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Bunch of hypocrite assholes who think it's balanced to die once every 10 battles just because their tank cost 1M+ ISK. ISK should not be the only balance factor. Right now it is. At this point I was about to click '+1' for this post Sequal's Back wrote: Anyone with a brain will never lose its proto tank unless 6+ guys decides to use proto AV and focus him... . But at this stage I no longer couldn't KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.02 06:51:00 - [108] - Quote Shiny Mudkip wrote: You're a wank. He is indeed. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
Tread Loudly 2 FromTheAshes Damage LLC 154	Posted - 2015.11.02 07:02:00 - [109] - Quote Maybe it's time for me to just admit it. I must be a scrub tanker if this GOD OP hasn't lost a tank in a pub match vs AV. I have tanked for a very. VERY long time and I don't think it's ever been harder to be a tanker. But hey what do I know. Especially as one of the most active players in dust. I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about right? But hey what fun is tanking when you just rely on a hardener. Oh how I miss the 1.7 days :) so many tanking possibilities. Now it's everyone runs the same crap, so I pull out the same counter every time. Now don't get me wrong I love tank v tank. But infantry and AV are on a completely different scale to that of a tank. taking the fun out of it IMO. But hey this is coming from a scrub PC tanker :) The Duo is back?
rpastry Dead Man's Game 341	Posted - 2015.11.02 10:02:00 - [110] - Quote Last night I ran AV again and got nowhere VS proto tanks, even with Alldins forge or Beacons swarms, though killed some mlt's and a couple advanced. Then I switched to tanks and lost a few to experienced tankers with gunners/spotters or multiple enemy tanks, I was being a bit gung-ho and testing a few ideas, but mainly proved i'm not a good tanker, despite what some have suggested. Matches with just AV against me l survived as usual, working out strafe paths and escape routes so I could push hot spots and defend objectives. I finished the night with a few matches in squad just playing infantry and ignoring the tanks. Crewed proto tankers actually made some games easier as the tanker mentality in pubs seems to be self preservation and kill farming. In a similar way to snipers, the tankers whose stats I looked at had a high K/D and a low W/L. Speaking to other players it seems most have accepted AV is mostly used to scare tanks off or have specced out of AV completely, ignoring or hiding from tanks and concentrating on killing infantry and holding objectives. /shrug, welcome to the new FOTM. Protostomping on steroids. Ultracrutch. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]

duster 35000 539	Posted - 2015.11.02 17:47:00 - [111] - Quote >tanks >being a crutch post nerfs baka desu senpai I can't wait to first tanks We'll bang ok?


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