Minotaur Master Race

let me resphrase it then
the only way to survive is with 2 hardeners active
atleast long enough, as with 1 hardener i dip below 50% hp alot, from 1 lock on weapon

the range nerf was stupid, though

When you only die because you get stuck and have at least 4 people focusing fire on you and they have no one shooting at them, you have OP tanks. I honestly feel like saying 'f*ck it' and pricing all vehicles and vehicle mods/turrets so they cost the same as a dropsuit just so they can't use price as an excuse for being OP. People are constantly saying 'use teamwork to kill tanks, it's easy to squad up and fight together' but tankers in no way have to follow their own advice. 1v1 is balanced, 1v4 where the 1 only dies due to a mistake is not.

your team just didn't know how to AV. i was in cover and using 2 hardeners, and no one flanked me, no forge gun, all you had to do was not staying in 1 spot.

if i was using 1 hardener i'd be dead, & have instant death on cooldown.

blaster accuracy needs a slight buff, and using 1 hardener needs to be viable, i tried using one, it fails so hard, double hardener needs a penalty, swarm nerf needs undoing.

even with one hardener active a proto madrugar can shrug off a full clip of proto swarms easily. like REALLY easily.

1st round hits;

wiyrkomi 1248 base damage +10% suit bonus +14% 2 complex light dmg mods = 1548. Proficiency bonus n/a cos its against the maddys shields, -20% damage vs shields brings it down again to 1238.

so that takes out the maddys shield

at this point I activate basic light shield booster giving me 900 shield back before 2nd round hits.

second round hits, same again for 900 of the 1238 dmg. 338 gets through to armour. this is now modded +15% for proficiency and +20% for profile, = 456, but then -25% for hardener = 342.

as im running a 120mm complex plate i have 4585 armour. so this round knocks me down to ~4200.

3rd round hits. 1735 damage (1248+15%+10%+14%) +20% on base for dmg profile = ~1948. reduced 25
% by hardener to ~1500

this puts me on 2700 armour. just under half my total hp.

OH but i forgot im repping my armour at 137/sec while this is happening, so i'm actually not as low as that.

and by this time im easily either round a corner or 150m away with my overdrive mod.

my maths might be off by a few hundred or even a thousand, but fact remains proto swarms on a min commando in no way 'wreck' tanks and no amount of 'git gud' will change that.

@Baal

Good stuff, man.

@Duster/Jerrmy

I don't know what else to say. Baal already covered everything. However, I will say this: anyone with Proto swarms has a slight chance to kill your dual-hardened Madrugar gv.0--but only with enough teamwork and if the conditions are just right. You simply died because of an error on your part, but if you hadn't blundered, you would have left that match unscathed.

I was Lt Shanx in that match: the triple complex damage modded level 5 proficiency Wirykomi SL wielding MinMando who was chasing you down the entire time. You got me like 5 times that match. Good game.

duster you're proving my point nicely. you've already stated that vs at least 4 experienced players running proto AV you only died because you had a controller malfunction. and 20-1 (20-0 without controller malfunction remember) is fine because 20 kills is you 'surviving but not fighting back' and killing shanks proto minmando 150k+ ISK suit 5 times is fine because your skills are immense.

yeah, because 2 hardeners are too strong, 1 is meh, and lets not forget this, i was constantly going back in cover with 2 hardeners active. they were also close range (10m or 20m) while i used a damage mod
using broken fits, basically

i was also not getting hit by four players, at least in quick succession, or i was, but backed away

And wanks are for...

However, you did all of that solo. Don't you find that odd, in a way that makes you think, "Hey, isn't this a little too easy?"

Welcome to the world of a shotgun / re scout or a minmatar assault with a bio fit , shotgun and re's / pe's .

I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are.

Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks.

@English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 f*cking guy? I'm down, sign me up right f*cking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta.

AV solo a HAV in Chromosome? Was that when 3k+ dmg no skill invisible swarms were about? Takes no skill btw which sums you up, who are you btw?.

Even back in the early days of PC vehicles had uses more than now even with broken swarms but 2 failed vehicle reworks, countless nerfs, countless removal of skills and modules and this is what we have left, deleting vehicles would be a major improvement overall at the current rate.

And of course you omit the countless off and on buffs that have gone on to vehicles through that whole process. You can posture, slur people and omit facts as much as you like but none of it will make you correct. The removals were considered by CCP to be necessary to slowly balance them over time with the new changes. While that choice was debatable, the current state of tanks is not to any intellectually honest individual. You're ignorance does nothing but shine throughout your posts. For instance:

'AV is hard? You mean it has never been easier when your butter knife can damage a HAV and weakspots have been buffed for you aswell as most weapons now cause damage to the hull.'

If a tank is stupid enough to sit still and be knifed repeatedly AV is OP? This statement is so ignorant that I can't believe your fingers would allow you to type it. More AV options does nothing to make AV stronger, it only serves to make it more common. Show us a video of someone going on a multi-PROtank killing spree with knives (or any other weapon that damages the hull which you referred to) in a match against competent drivers and then someone might take that sentence seriously. Until then it's nothing but one of the most laughable trolls ever posted on the forums.

You think tank/AV balance was better in Chromosome? Put it back and watch your K/D drop like a rock, I'll sign that pettition any day. As for removing tanks, I there is nothing that I could possibly care less about happening. They are nothing but K/D farms for people with no gungame and pretty much always have been. Keep them and balance them or remove them and stop all the whining, either is fine with me.

Shield tanks are fine.

Armor could use a little rebalancing. Firstly is their speed. Bring them more inline with shield tanks, having slightly faster base speed, slightly slower acceleration, and buff their god forsaken turn speed. This should keep them from nitroing and escaping AV plus strafing missiles and rail shots.

Secondly, give a longer interval between heavy rep cycles, compensating with more rep per cycle. I don't think active reps would be good. The longer interval should leave an opening for AV and turrets to alpha through the armor reps.

Just my thoughts.

so from your statement;

vehicles were stronger when proto tanks didnt exist

They're PRO in name only.

swarms were weaker when they had 400m range and could blindfire

How is locking down an entire map from a single position weak?

forges were weaker when they had 600m range (was it further my memory fails me) and splash damage

There are more weak points on a vehicle now than there ever were, making it easy to get a damage bonus.



anyway im not complaining, i'm tanking now. I've made an honest evaluation based on playing both sides.

lol you're arguing against a guy that started tanking literally since the beginning. You're waaaay out of your league.

I've been AV since replication, it's nice to hear your perspective. It sounds just as I'd suspected as well. There IS no way to solo a tank that is properly fitted and competently driven and vehicle drivers STILL complain about how squishy they are.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about. AV couldn't solo a tank during replication; missiles could hit the entire length of the map and essentially alpha another tank if the pilot didn't know what they were doing.

Oh, and ignore English Snake (Takihiro). He's a whiney little tank b!tch who doesn't know how to do anything BUT complain about tanks.

He started using tanks since the very beginning, so in reality, you don't know what you're talking about.

@English Snake: So you'd rather go back to Chromosome when we COULD solo fully fitted, properly driven tanks (as it should be) and it wasn't a team effort to kill 1 f*cking guy? I'm down, sign me up right f*cking now and I will wreck you like I used to wreck Zitro, Noc, you, Spkr and every other little tank clown back in open beta.

lol you seriously don't have a clue. Sad