DUST Search - [CPM Feedback] Officer Weaponry and Warbarges

All Channels

General Discussions

[CPM Feedback] Officer Weaponry and Warbarges

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:24:00 - [1] - Quote This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:28:00 - [2] - Quote 1. I only use Nothi's knives and officer smgs and I only have few and they are hard to obtain. 2. I feel like the passive generation is good, however the warbarge component cost is too harsh and needs to be lowered if not eliminated. 3. Depends on the changes. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:30:00 - [3] - Quote As a side note, I would like to make an additional comment. Please note that this is my own opinion and does not reflect the whole of the CPM. I dislike the notion of removal/reduction of Officer weaponry without looking at Experimental weapons as well. I personally feel that making changes to the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry but leaving the second most powerful weaponry open and available still would just be resolving one problem and starting another. In my opinion, players should not be able to freely access the most powerful gear just by logging in and pressing a few buttons. It is unfair to new and old players alike that because someone simply has an upgraded warbarge that they are getting the most powerful weaponry in the game just for logging in. That counts for both Officer and Experimental weaponry. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 490	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:40:00 - [4] - Quote I absolutely agree that officer weapons are too prolific now. You see them in nearly every game. Killing a person with such weapons use to mean something but not anymore when the said person has hundreds of such weapons now. Experimental weapon labs should only be able to pump out experimental weapons. A new subsystem should be made for officer weapons that produces officer weapon parts daily. Combining the parts with the experimental weapons should produce the officer weapon with a certain time period (maybe make another subsystem for this?) The warbarge subsystem is not the only place officer weapons come out of. The strongboxes as well, its alright if no one uses aurum to buy keys, I feel that is just a pay to win tactic. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Daemonn Adima Y.A.M.A.H 402	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:44:00 - [5] - Quote Losing the investment would be the biggest negative. I haven't invested a lot as I am fairly new, but that would feel like a low blow. I'm not sure what would be worth replacing the passive officer/exp. with, as in what would equate to a similar value. But if it is changed, how would the people who invested $ feel about getting it back in aur?
The Eristic Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:51:00 - [6] - Quote Like many things in the history of Dust, it was a bad idea in the first place, but it's probably too late to do anything about it now. Reality is the original Rorschach.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:07:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Experimental lab should only have experimental weapons. Claiming those weapons should not cost anything. The experimental lab costs exactly the same to upgrade as every other sub system and the only one which costs to continue to utilize it. In my opinion this cost was added to attempt to slow up the dispersion of officer weapons which never should have been part of the experimental lab in the first place. The only question that should be being asked is how to compensate players for the time that has passed while that system was configured incorrectly. In my opinion none is needed as they paid components and mostly got officer weapons which should have only been in salvage and strong boxes anyway.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:11:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Too much officer gear being used, in my opinion. There was a time when I saw an officer weapon in the killfeed and thought, "Aw yus. Here we go." And swapped to my officer fitting, prepared to duel this guy with the best weapons available in Dust 514. Now officer weaponry is essentially the new proto. That should not be the case. Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? No sir, I don't like it. Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? If the experiemental lab is to be changed then it should have the rate of drop for officer weaponry sharply dropped. Perhaps 1% of the items spawned can be officer gear. In return, increase the production rate slightly. I am all for seeing experimental weapons being the new proto. They are, in fact, the next tier up from proto so that makes perfect sense to me. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:14:00 - [9] - Quote 1) How do you feel about the proliferation of Officer Weapons? The proliferation is real, and the effects are negative. Officer weapons were introduced as "OP by design", and was limited by their extreme rarity. With their passive generation, we now have officer weapons dominating the highest tier of play, and spilling out into Pubs. This is not good. 2) How do you feel about passive generation of these weapons? Passive generation of officer weapons is a poor design choice, and it seems that passive generation has had very low positive feedback when implemented in Dust. My suggestion would be to remove passive generation in the Warbarge and continue work on the salvage/crafting mechanic. Create salvage of different rarities that have the same chance to drop as officer weapons, and allow players to craft these weapons. By adding them to the EoM salvage, there should be an officer weapon sink 3) How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Its a ***** position to be in, but it is also of CCP's own doing. Every time something gets monetized, the mechanic can only be buffed. If anyone speaks of reductions - even very sensible ones - people cry out that their X is being devalued. This has been true about BPOs, Apex suits, and will be true about cutting off passive generation. I would just accept the tears and cut off the passive generation, making sure that I did it during a time where I had goodwill to spare. Furthermore, moving forward, I would only monetize aesthetic and/or assets that can be purchased in market for ISK. Otherwise you run the risk of this problem in the future EDIT 3a) In order to stem the tears from cutting off the generation, I would offer an AUR credit to mercs based on their warbarge and sub-system levels. Off of the top of my head, it could be: (1000AUR x Warbarge Level) + ([Sigma 0-->n]) Sub-system(500AUR x n). If my math was correct, the above equation would pay back 1000AUR per warbarge level, plus an additional 500AUR per level of each sub-system. Of course, these numbers are just examples. People would still complain, because they always do. But I'd bet money that they would accept the credit and move on after a while. And it would be a fair credit to give. "For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most" Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:17:00 - [10] - Quote In the same way that sp is now easily obtained...officer weapons should be as well. For the simple reason being the current state of the game. Doesn't look like much of a future so allow the players to ball out with officer weapons and suits. A better reason would be it allows players to be able to sell their gear for ISK. Hopefully, they'll be able to fund their pub gear and allow for more competitive matches. Because pub payout sucks "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here

KGB Sleep 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:25:00 - [11] - Quote It's too late. Allowing AUR to purchase components was a mistake. The best they can do is to cap it where it is unless the nerf contains a refund, which would still be problematic bc ppl would want a Sony refund out of spite. Because beer, that's why.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 520	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:53:00 - [12] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Proto was supposed to be for escalations, and Officer was supposed to be as a Hail Mary of sorts...now Proto is the norm, and people running officer are about as common as people running starter fits. It's a problem...and it should be addressed; however, something positive has come from this...we can now see which officer weapons are performing well, too well, or not well enough...take this opportunity to do a balance pass on them (None of this, they're rare they should be OP BS...they should be more powerful, but not any more powerful than PRO is to STD). Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? I'm not a big fan of passive generation of Officer Weapons/Suits, due to the power level difference between them and the PRO tier equivalents. Like you bring up later, Experimental is also more powerful than PRO, but it is more powerful in a method that is just above what you would expect for the next tier after PRO...so it is not overwhelmingly powerful...as such even though I don't like passive generation of them, until such time as a crafting system could be implemented to build them...passive regeneration for EXP gear only is alright by me. Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? They would obviously negatively affect people who invested into the Experimental Lab, with the knowledge (and if they read the patch notes expectation) that the mechanic would eventually be changed...the Experimental lab was a interim feature for crafting, and should be treated as such. I repeat...it was made pretty clear that the Experimental Lab would eventually be changed. I would obviously benefit people who invested in Officer Gear xD. Thoughts on how the Experimental Lab could Function: Have it try to produce Experimental Weapons that you have the skills to use (weight the drop table heavily in their favor once trained). Reduce the cost to upgrade the subsytem itself and refund components already spent. or Reduce/Remove Component Cost of Claiming Items (or associate a Component Cost of some sort to all the other subsystems to gain the benefits...would be interesting for the Weapon Damage One.) Experimental Weapons: Can we get 'Marine' Versions added to the LP Stores? Please? FW Players have been very good this year! (this would be similar to the Faction Gear in Eve being slightly better than tech 2 in some areas) Please Note: With the Raw Number of Officer Weapons and Suits in-game right now, it will take some time after any changes before we see people stop running them all over the place Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:01:00 - [13] - Quote I agree, the best thing for a dying game would be to make it less fun. Brilliant concept. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:03:00 - [14] - Quote Take away the warbarge and give the playerbase a realistic glimpse of logins. Brilliant. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:09:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Would Warbarge refunds back to components be possible? And then refunding all AUR-bought components back to AUR? It would still affect the investments, but at least players could invest AUR elsewhere if Warbarge changes come to pass. I'm the Minotaur You! Yes, you! You are an illiterate little twit.
Thumb Green Elephant Riders 2	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:10:00 - [16] - Quote "How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry?" I hate it, peircing said it was spilling out into pubs, that's an understatement because pubs are already flooded with them; and it drives me up the wall that something that was meant to be so rare is being thrown around like candy at a parade. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? I think it was a pretty asinine decision but that's par for the course. Passive ISK PC farms were a big problem, then somebody get's the bright idea to make Officer farms a thing, were they huffing paint? Changing subject slightly, making the exp lab not cost components has been mentioned but while nice, it would make the mobile factory useless after a point . How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Anything that shuts the floodgates on Officer gear is a good thing and while I did drop100$ and spent a lot of the aur upgrading the warbarge, I don't mind a bit if Officer is removed from the exp lab. You bring up a concern of replacing one problem with another since it would either only or mostly pop out experimental gear. So while I hate the idea I wouldn't appose adding proto to the list, hell even throw in adv which I would like; it really wouldn't make the stompers any worse as these people can already afford proto as if it were chewing gum but it would lend a hand to the lower tiered players that can't afford proto, some can barely afford to run adv. Thus allowing them to fight fire with fire a bit easier. Perhaps add a category for what you want produced such as "Light weapons", "Sidearms", "Heavy Weapons" throw in turrets while we're at it, since adding all the extra gear would drastically increase the odds of getting more stuff you may never use so narrowing it down a bit would b nice. Hell, if they're feeling frisky maybe change the name to Experimental Manufacturing and throw in all the gear and have categories like "dropsuits" "dropsuit modules & equipment" etc... Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks. Dust really needs its high sec.
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:16:00 - [17] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Would Warbarge refunds back to components be possible? And then refunding all AUR-bought components back to AUR? It would still affect the investments, but at least players could invest AUR elsewhere if Warbarge changes come to pass. They probably wouldn't want to refund the AUR and even if they did what would you want to spend that AUR on? It would be the nail in the coffin for me. I saw it as a distancing of the Eve mantra that had held back Dust from it's inception. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 416	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:17:00 - [18] - Quote Im not gonna lie, I've spent AUR to upgrade the exp factory. I usually get from 4-6 exp/officer weapons on the daily. If for some reason those values change I'm cool with it , for game balance purposes but I'd at least like my components back for it. \0/
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:22:00 - [19] - Quote LOL KILLZ wrote: Im not gonna lie, I've spent AUR to upgrade the exp factory. I usually get from 4-6 exp/officer weapons on the daily. If for some reason those values change I'm cool with it , for game balance purposes but I'd at least like my components back for it. What would you use them for? "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Darth-Carbonite GIO Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 2	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:29:00 - [20] - Quote My opinion, Officer weapons are supposed to be rare, and mean something to you when you use them, as well as those you use them on. Experimental should stay. While Experimental is more powerful than your average ISK gear, the increase in effectiveness is minimal compared to Officer. Passive Generation is a bad idea in general, and should be changed. "Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge our benevolent overlord "Why does everyone fellatiate Darth? Why?!" -Aeon Amadi

Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:29:00 - [21] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Would Warbarge refunds back to components be possible? And then refunding all AUR-bought components back to AUR? It would still affect the investments, but at least players could invest AUR elsewhere if Warbarge changes come to pass. They probably wouldn't want to refund the AUR and even if they did what would you want to spend that AUR on? It would be the nail in the coffin for me. I saw it as a distancing of the Eve mantra that had held back Dust from it's inception. I don't know. And frankly, I don't particularly care one way or another. Maybe they buy skins or keys. Maybe they yell at Sony for some refund. I'm more of the opinion they keep things mostly the same (save for gear balance [edit: statwise]), until they PORT THE GAME ALREADY or something! Then, they can tear things up, transfer SP/items/progress somehow to the "new" DUST, and nobody will have any legit room to cry. I'm the Minotaur You! Yes, you! You are an illiterate little twit.
bane sieg Eternal Beings RUST415 358	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:46:00 - [22] - Quote I say yes, stop letting your average player get ahold of officer gear so those who already have huge stockpiles can control the market and officer stomp freely. This is a great idea. Signed, your lord and savior, The illustrious mr. bane sieg
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:53:00 - [23] - Quote bane sieg wrote: I say yes, stop letting your average player get ahold of officer gear so those who already have huge stockpiles can control the market and officer stomp freely. This is a great idea. Don't start using logic. If officer is as rare as it was before you'll just never see it and if you do it will ONLY be in a public match. They are only used in PC because they aren't rare. Even if this idea had any merit, taking one of the only things that keeps people logging in at this stage would be very.... well very CCP like. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:57:00 - [24] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Would Warbarge refunds back to components be possible? And then refunding all AUR-bought components back to AUR? It would still affect the investments, but at least players could invest AUR elsewhere if Warbarge changes come to pass. They probably wouldn't want to refund the AUR and even if they did what would you want to spend that AUR on? It would be the nail in the coffin for me. I saw it as a distancing of the Eve mantra that had held back Dust from it's inception. I don't know. And frankly, I don't particularly care one way or another. Maybe they buy skins or keys. Maybe they yell at Sony for some refund. I'm more of the opinion they keep things mostly the same (save for gear balance [edit: statwise]), until they PORT THE GAME ALREADY or something! Then, they can tear things up, transfer SP/items/progress somehow to the "new" DUST, and nobody will have any legit room to cry. I'd hope that a ported Dust would see that the non-respec/misery mindset that comes from Eve dies in a fire. It's strange that you see this "casual players must have a place" stuff yet the casuals seem to want the misery mechanics the most. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:08:00 - [25] - Quote The warbarge fills the void from ****** payouts in matches. Take the ISK payout from the warbarge and change it to a payout multiplier so it's not a passive thing. Just don't make it something stupid like .00001 percent per level like I suspect it would be. The warbarge could use some changes for sure and it could be done in a way that I'd fully support. But taking away officer gear is just stupid. I'd rather see Militia thru Proto go away and have a single tier where skills boost effectiveness. In the current environment officer weapons would be the only thing better than a standard weapon and it would make it seem less powerful. For most veteran players I know, proto is the only thing they use so this wouldn't be a change at all for them. Just like respecs this type of change would benefit new and casual players the most. If such a change took place APEX suits would be a problem that would need a solution though. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 349	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:35:00 - [26] - Quote Its too late to do anything about them now. There are already many players with 1000s of these stocked up. Making them more rare now is too late unless you simply remove them all and start over. Which sounds like a great plan. Otherwise you create an instant wealth increase for those of us who have stock piled them if we chose to sell them or a power gap if we choose to use them.
Leither Yiltron 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:44:00 - [27] - Quote Making the game better by revoking a bad design decision is never a bait-and-switch. In a perfect world these sorts of things wouldn't happen, but in practice everyone is fallible. To be honest, the over-generation has been going on so long as to prevent a significant stockpiling problem anyways. "There's a problem thing and people have stockpiles of it, so obviously we just need to let everyone keep getting more," is literally the stupidest argument possible. Next thing you know we'll be advocating against nuclear disarmament and anti-proliferation efforts. Have a pony
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 23:52:00 - [28] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Its too late to do anything about them now. There are already many players with 1000s of these stocked up. Making them more rare now is too late unless you simply remove them all and start over. Which sounds like a great plan. Otherwise you create an instant wealth increase for those of us who have stock piled them if we chose to sell them or a power gap if we choose to use them. I agree... New player gets officer gear sells it, gets stomped by uber rich Corp member who buys them 100 at a time. Goes to forum to complain about officer stomping. Allowing them to be traded made them commonly used to a small percent of the player base. Changing it now would not affect its use for a very long time. Wiping them from inventory's would also be unfair. Taking them from labs would be a bait and switch ( I would expect a cash refund aurum would be like spitting in a players face ). People selling them is as much a problem as the proliferation of their use.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 00:20:00 - [29] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Making the game better by revoking a bad design decision is never a bait-and-switch. In a perfect world these sorts of things wouldn't happen, but in practice everyone is fallible. To be honest, the over-generation has been going on so long as to prevent a significant stockpiling problem anyways. "There's a problem thing and people have stockpiles of it, so obviously we just need to let everyone keep getting more," is literally the stupidest argument possible. Next thing you know we'll be advocating against nuclear disarmament and anti-proliferation efforts. -Shrug- Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 00:57:00 - [30] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Making the game better by revoking a bad design decision is never a bait-and-switch. In a perfect world these sorts of things wouldn't happen, but in practice everyone is fallible. To be honest, the over-generation has been going on so long as to prevent a significant stockpiling problem anyways. "There's a problem thing and people have stockpiles of it, so obviously we just need to let everyone keep getting more," is literally the stupidest argument possible. Next thing you know we'll be advocating against nuclear disarmament and anti-proliferation efforts. But it's not a problem thing. The warbarge and the trading that comes from it is one of the games best features. You guys that don't play the game sound so freaking ridiculous talking about things as though you know what you are talking about. The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. You were wrong about respecs and you are wrong about this. Even if it were common it means there's some dude who enjoys trading more than fighting is making ISK off of the stompers. I've proposed before that ISK be removed as a currency and make components our primary currency. Make one tier of suits and weapons and make the market 100% player driven outside of AUR gear. Then the warbarge is less passive as payouts would be your primary source of components. These are the types of things I'd like to see if the game were ported, but for now in the reality of the situation just leave it be. The proto//officer whiners will find something else to whine about and blame their ineffectiveness on. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:19:00 - [31] - Quote Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) Dropsuit Usage Rates
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 149	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:23:00 - [32] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. Depends what you think of as too common, I see an officer weapon at least once in every pub. To me that is too common. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? In pubs, far too high. Probably no such thing as 'too high' for FW and PC. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? It seems like the passive generation is built around the fact that you're rolling each time to get one you can actually use. As it stands with trading, every officer weapon you get can be converted to one you can use. Removing trading would really mess things up for the people playing FW and PC though. Unfortunately with the game being in it's current state, any kit that you think players should be able to bring into FW and PC will make it's way into pubs, so you can't balance around the idea of 'players should only want to bring this stuff into FW and PC'. How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? It would be a horrible move to change the way that something (the warbarge) fundamentally worked if even one player payed real money for it. Removing a single source of officer weapons is also missing the problem. No one is complaining of too much officer in FW. No one is complaining of too much officer in PC. Something is killing new player retention.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:23:00 - [33] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Listen, if you make it so that the warbarge only gives Experimental, it won't solve the problem. People will whine about all this experimental gear as well. People will always whine about you running higher tier gear. To answer your questions; I'm fine with the proliferation of officer weaponry. I see them every few games, and me and my friends hunt them down and relieve them of it. Passive generation could be removed for all I care, most buy it anyways. I feel like changes wouldn't affect much and just show the playerbase that if you whine enough you can get what you don't like removed. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:30:00 - [34] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP yields EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. Right now it's hard to find a Bons for less than 500k. A Rattati suit is going for 1.5 mil ISK. If a dude is willing to lose things like that in a pub is that not the ISK sink people have been wanting to see? I don't care what anybody says, gear is not the issue that's harming public matches. We've seen public matches declining in quality for as long as I can remember. There's a problem with participation in public matches. There's no incentive to win so most people give it a shot for a few pushes and then go hide. I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:40:00 - [35] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. There was too much of it pumped into circulation. In my opinion, at least. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Completely agree. Incentivizing earnest participation is an altogether separate issue. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:53:00 - [36] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. Depends what you think of as too common, I see an officer weapon at least once in every pub. To me that is too common. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? In pubs, far too high. Probably no such thing as 'too high' for FW and PC. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? It seems like the passive generation is built around the fact that you're rolling each time to get one you can actually use. As it stands with trading, every officer weapon you get can be converted to one you can use. Removing trading would really mess things up for the people playing FW and PC though. Unfortunately with the game being in it's current state, any kit that you think players should be able to bring into FW and PC will make it's way into pubs, so you can't balance around the idea of 'players should only want to bring this stuff into FW and PC'. How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? It would be a horrible move to change the way that something (the warbarge) fundamentally worked if even one player payed real money for it. Removing a single source of officer weapons is also missing the problem. No one is complaining of too much officer in FW. No one is complaining of too much officer in PC. So many people act as though there is something going on in PC and FW. PC is such a small base of players that no development decision should be made in regards to it for any foreseeable future. At the drop of a hat 90% of those participating in PC at the moment could have their sand castle washed away. FW is no more competitive than public matches, it's just that there's a higher percentage of players actually participating because there's an incentive to win. You can also qsync which gives you the ability to guarantee some level of participation by your team. There are mechanics in Dust currently that the masses don't take advantage of. They chose to go solo into public matches and are surprised by the frustration they feel. It all really revolves around that. Creating an environment where casual players can deploy solo in matches and have wonderful experiences means that Dust is no longer Dust. How can you make the guy who wants to hang out on the turret by the redline for an entire match have a good experience without making the dude who wants to capture the objective and win the match happy? It's impossible. Is lower tier gear going to make the objective guy more able to clear a point by himself? Nobody ever answers this. Even with no squads and one tier of weapons public matches will still have so much randomness that matchmaking will have a hard time balancing matches. Make proto gear free. Make labs spit out 50 officer weapons a day. Make competitive veterans fight matches against 3x the number of casuals in matches. It won't change a thing if there's 75% of a team doing random stuff in public matches. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:03:00 - [37] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. There was too much of it pumped into circulation. In my opinion, at least. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Completely agree. Incentivizing earnest participation is an altogether separate issue. I suffer from tunnel vision. Addressing officer gear and the way the warbarge works is just not an issue worth discussing. It's hard to even tell how much of an issue they are. We had a revamp of PC and all that came from it was a bunch of no shows. CEOs thinking they are screwing with elite corps, but robbing their members of a ton of content. On paper I'm sure it made sense to make changes to PC, but mechanics corps would have killed for 2.5 years ago haven't registered on the radar because for whatever reason the majority of Dust hates their R1 buttons. Driving participation in matches should be the only priority for the foreseeable future. Even with a port are we expecting this playerbase to make a port successful? Are people that play other shooters going to enjoy a game where they lose assets while 6 dudes hide in the redline? "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:06:00 - [38] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) I like all of those except for disallowing things in any match type. that only further complicates things and divides the player base. I also see riots happening if you change the Augmented Munitions subsystem. There are people out there who have literally spent thousands of dollars on that damage so it getting shifted to something else would be a huge no no. You can say reset the warbarge to satisfy the people that have spent so much on the weapons facility but they would be stuck with 100s of thousands of components that they no longer want.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:21:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Officer weps are far too common. Both their generation is too great and ability to trade them just emphasizes this. Too many sources. Quote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? Exp gear could be accepted. But, as any, they should have cost to use: be it a single drawback among many good attributes or high fitting cost (note: isk cost is never a balancing factor) Quote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Total removal would entitle a harsh community reaction, and for a reason. Changes should be allowed, up to imaginary "49%" of the original. Whatever that means. I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Seach "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:27:00 - [40] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. I feel like the passive generation of officer weapons was meant to be a way to put them into peoples hands without them spending money. That is no longer needed now that they are all able to be traded and we have free keys every day to churn more into the market. It is time the experimental lab go experimental only. I also agree that the damage bonus was a serious mistake. TTK and balancing have already been a very difficult area without having to balance for players having between 0 and 10% extra damage. It also quickly reaches a point where an advantage is only gained through $$$.

Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:34:00 - [41] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Officer weps are far too common. Both their generation is too great and ability to trade them just emphasizes this. Too many sources. Quote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? Exp gear could be accepted. But, as any, they should have cost to use: be it a single drawback among many good attributes or high fitting cost (note: isk cost is never a balancing factor) Quote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Total removal would entitle a harsh community reaction, and for a reason. Changes should be allowed, up to imaginary "49%" of the original. Whatever that means. I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. An experimental weapon is arguably the most powerful of all the warbarge generated weapons so why would they be acceptable but the officers not? With the laboratory spitting out officer weapons it makes getting the assault variants that are in high demand extremely rare. I think this is just a conceptual feeling people have rather than an actual problem. It's also taken quite some time for the number of officer weapons in circulation to actually be used. If they are any more rare the prices will become so high that they will only be used in obvious stomps in pubs to troll people. Same theory for keeping payouts low, the only people using higher tier gear were the best players in the game. We are in the only period in Dust's history where the masses can build wealth while not having to count pennies trying to win a match. They just aren't choosing to step up their gear to win a match, but the opportunity is there for the first time in the game. Which brings me back to the point of addressing participation. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:44:00 - [42] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) I like all of those except for disallowing things in any match type. that only further complicates things and divides the player base. I also see riots happening if you change the Augmented Munitions subsystem. There are people out there who have literally spent thousands of dollars on that damage so it getting shifted to something else would be a huge no no. You can say reset the warbarge to satisfy the people that have spent so much on the weapons facility but they would be stuck with 100s of thousands of components that they no longer want. Absolutely a fair point. I personally don't mind the augmented ammunition subsystem as is (assuming it is capped at/around 5 levels). That said, there are others who believe that it was a mistake and is causing TTK problems. My thinking is that if they're going to tweak the experimental lab, they should do so in as fairly a manner as possible. To me, that means "reseting" our warbarges and refunding components. If that's an option, why not take the opportunity to also touch up other subsystems where needed while they're at it? If they're eventually going to tinker with augmented ammo, this would be a good time to do it. Wouldn't hurt to improve the less appealing subsystems as well (i.e. Market Network, Neural Statistics). All spitballs, of course. Dropsuit Usage Rates
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:49:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Absolutely a fair point. I personally don't mind the augmented ammunition subsystem as is (assuming it is capped at/around 5 levels). That said, there are others who believe that it was a mistake and is causing TTK problems. My thinking is that if we're going to fix the experiment lab's officer gear problem, we should do so in as fairly a manner as possible. To me, that means "reseting" warbarges and refunding components. And if we're going to that, why not take that opportunity to also touch up some of the other potential problems? If they're going to fix augmented ammo, this would be a good time to do it. Wouldn't hurt to improve the crappy subsystems while they're at it (i.e. Market Network, Neural Statistics). All spitballs, of course. Personally I want to see the experimental weapons lab free to claim and ONLY produce experimental weapons. I think this would require a partial refund of components used to claim experimental production but no more than 50% as the thing produces almost 50% officer weapons. I feel like the rest is fairly set in stone because while they may not have been the best design they were not performing in a unbalanced and game breaking manner.
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:07:00 - [44] - Quote First of all...leave the augmented munitions lab alone. Secondly...I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. But make it easier to claim the items from the experimental lab. Remove the wb component claim for the experimental weapons or at least have it match the same level of wb components produced in one day. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:09:00 - [45] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:43:00 - [46] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
IR Scifi OSG Planetary Operations 233	Posted - 2015.10.18 04:35:00 - [47] - Quote I don't really have much to contribute beyond what's already been said. As a purely anecdotal observation I can say I'm seeing full officer fits (both suit and weapons) roughly every two to three matches when I'm running pubs. That to me feels to often but I'd like to really see some official numbers to back that up.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 438	Posted - 2015.10.18 05:06:00 - [48] - Quote Okay, i know this is going to need a full 6k to fully explain... But I'm tired, i have no time (still working on pilot suits when i have free computer time).. N it's late. My suggestions? Firstly... Experimental lab + crafting = yes. So make experimental modules n suits (e.g a shield regulator that's powerful, but lowers sHP/s significantly, or a g-1 assault which has increased speed, but decreased armor... More components and assets put in, higher tier experimental comes out (up to proto) . Weapons should be rare to come across. Avoids high powered weapons while being a good asset still. /* DON'T MEAN REMOVE WEAPONS FROM THE LAB NEVERTHELESS... just add more things to get other than straight x- weapons/officer suits/weapons / Secondly, KEY PRODUCTION FROM THE LAB * nuff said. No need to explain. Thirdly, (and the one that wants the explanation), ammo types... Experimental labs produces experimental ammo. Experimental ammo means... You gotta experiment, test, and create ammo specifically for you. This involves taking ammo types from EvE, which is a whole other topic to discuss. We all know experiments fail sometimes... So it should have a failure rate, too. Just what i think of it (i only read first page of the thread then replied before i forget my ideas or fall asleep, might have said something someone already said) Edit: Augmented munitions = ammo types rather than damage .. If that would make more sense (read last page now ;D) And, the ability to trade components. Hmm? Forever ADS. Best role.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 317	Posted - 2015.10.18 05:12:00 - [49] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Though I appreciate CPM2 looking for a job to do in this game. No one has complained about the proliferation of Officer weapons, as far as I'm concerned. The reason we have a proliferation, is not simply because of the war barge, nor is it a problem. The main reason is because you can purchase them as a player to player transaction. In the first week of open player trading I was able to purchase 600+ calas smg's. And I've probably gotten 3 out of my war barge. I think it's silly to even talk about this issue and pretend its a problem. So to answer your questions: 1. I feel the proliferation is a natural outcome to the player trading market opening up. 2. Passive generation of these weapons is awesome. 3. Changes are unnecessary. Not in the priorities list IMO. Let's say matchmaking is probably a lot higher than this. CEO / Art.of.Death
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 06:15:00 - [50] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: As a side note, I would like to make an additional comment. Please note that this is my own opinion and does not reflect the whole of the CPM. I dislike the notion of removal/reduction of Officer weaponry without looking at Experimental weapons as well. I personally feel that making changes to the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry but leaving the second most powerful weaponry open and available still would just be resolving one problem and starting another. In my opinion, players should not be able to freely access the most powerful gear just by logging in and pressing a few buttons. It is unfair to new and old players alike that because someone simply has an upgraded warbarge that they are getting the most powerful weaponry in the game just for logging in. That counts for both Officer and Experimental weaponry. imo it's not a problem at all. you die, you lose it, you don't really see it in pubs at all either Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!

Sardonk Eternia Tiny Universe 376	Posted - 2015.10.18 06:31:00 - [51] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Though I appreciate CPM2 looking for a job to do in this game. No one has complained about the proliferation of Officer weapons, as far as I'm concerned. The reason we have a proliferation, is not simply because of the war barge, nor is it a problem. The main reason is because you can purchase them as a player to player transaction. In the first week of open player trading I was able to purchase 600+ calas smg's. And I've probably gotten 3 out of my war barge. I think it's silly to even talk about this issue and pretend its a problem. So to answer your questions: 1. I feel the proliferation is a natural outcome to the player trading market opening up. 2. Passive generation of these weapons is awesome. 3. Changes are unnecessary. Not in the priorities list IMO. Let's say matchmaking is probably a lot higher than this. Well said (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Hawkings Greenback Dead Man's Game 408	Posted - 2015.10.18 08:37:00 - [52] - Quote How about adding equipment to the lab ? This will hopefully reduce the number of weapons being output from the lab & give other options for fitting & trading for logis and support players. "Forum Lurker" since 2012
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 09:44:00 - [53] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: How about adding equipment to the lab ? This will hopefully reduce the number of weapons being output from the lab & give other options for fitting & trading for logis and support players. how about exp mods, & exp equipment, but increase the amount produced, say 3x or more? Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 4	Posted - 2015.10.18 10:17:00 - [54] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Imo most of the officer weapons used right now have been acquired through market exchange, only a minor part come from the warbarge, i have a great stock which i don't use (even if i can), but other players with numbers like mine can inject a lot of officer gear in the market, delivering that to people who use it. I don't see a great problem in officer weaponry proliferation, by using officer in pub you automatically put a bounty on your head. As long as it take 198 components to claim a single item, i don't see a problem, at lvl 1 (EL) you need 400 components per day (lvl.3 MF) to be sustainable, for the level 2 (EL) you need 600 components (lvl.5 MF) This also mean that after claiming them at lvl 1 and 2 you have respectively: 4 components (lvl.3 MF) and 6 components (lvl.5 MF), slowing down your upgrading process. The only thing i would do, if you feel that EL is producing too much officer gear, is to lower the % of officer gear produced. But players need to have something in exchange, like a reduction of components cost for claim the from the EL or even better a increase in MF component production (you need 51k for lvl.5 and 100k for lvl.6, multiply this for every warbarge module and start crying) Regressed to blueberry level.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 11:51:00 - [55] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP yields EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. Right now it's hard to find a Bons for less than 500k. A Rattati suit is going for 1.5 mil ISK. If a dude is willing to lose things like that in a pub is that not the ISK sink people have been wanting to see? I don't care what anybody says, gear is not the issue that's harming public matches. We've seen public matches declining in quality for as long as I can remember. There's a problem with participation in public matches. There's no incentive to win so most people give it a shot for a few pushes and then go hide. I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Just so we're all clear, that is not an ISK sink. An ISK sink is something that takes ISK -OUT- of the economy, not redistributes it. A player purchasing an officer weapon or suit from another player is only redistributing that ISK but it is still in someone's wallet at the end of the day. The only ISK sink we have at the moment is the NPC market and it is not enough to counter the amount of ISK currently in the inflated player economy. Which is honestly part of the problem, really. Players with more ISK than they'll ever spend (from PC farming, BPOs, etc) can afford to buy officer gear in bulk and basically run it whenever, hence it's proliferation in pubs and such. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:03:00 - [56] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:04:00 - [57] - Quote lol warbarge. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 161	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:25:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. I really really agree with what you're saying, but: TBH it's already too late. Even if you stopped new officer gear coming into the game from all sources, they're still going to be a problem for months to come. Look at the quantities available on the Player Trading sub, then imagine how many people have more in their assets but aren't bothered to sell them. Restricting where they come from won't have it's effects felt for ages, so it's going to be a crazy hard thing to get any feedback on in-game and in turn balance properly. Are you aiming to have them not be a viable option in certain game-modes? Pubs? FW? Anything is a viable option when you've got enough ISK, and there's plenty of players that do. At this point trying to balance the prevalence of an item in Dust through rarity is probably not going to work. You're still going to see those items in at least the top end of the battle in all game-modes. Unless, of course, you lock them out. Something is killing new player retention.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:44:00 - [59] - Quote Perhaps if/when we see the other subsystems or if more work is done on subsystems then perhaps the experimental lab could just spit out EXP weapons, then the focused lab could allow you to but X amount of EXP weapons in to exchange them for an officer variants so every 2-3 EXP weapons you'd get 1 x Officer or if basic crafting you could use the refining lab and get Officer grade nanites which you put in focused lab with EXP grade nanites and out pop X amount of Officer weapons so we can still get a reasonable amount of officer weapons with some work invested but you have to lose some EXP wepaons in order to get them, so its a case of do you want a regualr flow of EXP weapons to use or trade them in for a smaller supply of Officer in return. Another thing could be restricting trading on Officer weapons. that way people can't farm labs and pool them all onto their main. they'd only have the small few they get from lab on their own account whereas EXP could still be traded. alternativly trading based on Loyalty rank and meta level, the higher the loyalty rank the higher the metal level upto Loyalty 5 being meta 10 (officer) Lv0 - no trading Lv1 - Meta 1-2 Lv2 - Meta 3-4 Lv3 - Meta 5-6 Lv4 - Meta 7-8 Lv5 - Meta 9-10 this would allow players to trade their old stuff as their characters grow, selling STD gear to newer players to fund ADV gear, then sellign their ADV gear to fund their new proto gear ect. Those of us who have played for a while wouldn't be affected by it on our mains, but any alt accounts created to farm labs will be restricted Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:29:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. Yet there are tons of players who've never sniffed a PC who spend hours each day trading officer gear. Why not ask for a show of hands who claims laboratory items each day and also ask for their PC experience? You guys with your misery/grind for decades mentality have been proven wrong. You'd know that if you actually played instead of just typing about Dust. Theories are great and all... "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious

Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:30:00 - [61] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Perhaps if/when we see the other subsystems or if more work is done on subsystems then perhaps the experimental lab could just spit out EXP weapons, then the focused lab could allow you to but X amount of EXP weapons in to exchange them for an officer variants so every 2-3 EXP weapons you'd get 1 x Officer or if basic crafting you could use the refining lab and get Officer grade nanites which you put in focused lab with EXP grade nanites and out pop X amount of Officer weapons so we can still get a reasonable amount of officer weapons with some work invested but you have to lose some EXP wepaons in order to get them, so its a case of do you want a regualr flow of EXP weapons to use or trade them in for a smaller supply of Officer in return. Another thing could be restricting trading on Officer weapons. that way people can't farm labs and pool them all onto their main. they'd only have the small few they get from lab on their own account whereas EXP could still be traded. alternativly trading based on Loyalty rank and meta level, the higher the loyalty rank the higher the metal level upto Loyalty 5 being meta 10 (officer) Lv0 - no trading Lv1 - Meta 1-2 Lv2 - Meta 3-4 Lv3 - Meta 5-6 Lv4 - Meta 7-8 Lv5 - Meta 9-10 this would allow players to trade their old stuff as their characters grow, selling STD gear to newer players to fund ADV gear, then sellign their ADV gear to fund their new proto gear ect. Those of us who have played for a while wouldn't be affected by it on our mains, but any alt accounts created to farm labs will be restricted People who only AFK in matches don't get to have an opinion about stuff, GTFO. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:36:00 - [62] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. I really really agree with what you're saying, but: TBH it's already too late. Even if you stopped new officer gear coming into the game from all sources, they're still going to be a problem for months to come. Look at the quantities available on the Player Trading sub, then imagine how many people have more in their assets but aren't bothered to sell them. Restricting where they come from won't have it's effects felt for ages, so it's going to be a crazy hard thing to get any feedback on in-game and in turn balance properly. Are you aiming to have them not be a viable option in certain game-modes? Pubs? FW? Anything is a viable option when you've got enough ISK, and there's plenty of players that do. At this point trying to balance the prevalence of an item in Dust through rarity is probably not going to work. You're still going to see those items in at least the top end of the battle in all game-modes. Unless, of course, you lock them out. You are correct, introducing fun and an ability to make ISK for the first time outside of exploits of broken and ignored PC mechanics will be hard to put back into the bag. FYI Aeon thinks Apex suits are game breaking, just for some context. Possibly the single best thing to ever happen for newer players and he also dislikes this. This dude is more anti-fun than Soraya was and that ladies and gentlemen is hard to pull off. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
ANON Cerberus TerranProtossZerg 854	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:42:00 - [63] - Quote Make officer weapons off limit to pubs, make squads off limit to pubs. Behold a more balanced game. Now if you are saying I have had to endure officer beatdowns for months and now as soon as I am about ready to use that myself you wish to take that away? That does not seem fair.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:25:00 - [64] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. I really really agree with what you're saying, but: TBH it's already too late. Even if you stopped new officer gear coming into the game from all sources, they're still going to be a problem for months to come. Look at the quantities available on the Player Trading sub, then imagine how many people have more in their assets but aren't bothered to sell them. Restricting where they come from won't have it's effects felt for ages, so it's going to be a crazy hard thing to get any feedback on in-game and in turn balance properly. Are you aiming to have them not be a viable option in certain game-modes? Pubs? FW? Anything is a viable option when you've got enough ISK, and there's plenty of players that do. At this point trying to balance the prevalence of an item in Dust through rarity is probably not going to work. You're still going to see those items in at least the top end of the battle in all game-modes. Unless, of course, you lock them out. You are correct, introducing fun and an ability to make ISK for the first time outside of exploits of broken and ignored PC mechanics will be hard to put back into the bag. FYI Aeon thinks Apex suits are game breaking, just for some context. Possibly the single best thing to ever happen for newer players and he also dislikes this. This dude is more anti-fun than Soraya was and that ladies and gentlemen is hard to pull off. I am, if anti-fun is defined as being against a mechanical advantage that allows players to be exempt from the same costs and risk/reward mechanics that players without APEX BPOs must follow. It's different everyone starts with it, or if everyone has the same opportunity with which to obtain it (hence why they were added to the LP store, btw). But even still, the permanent ability to exempt oneself from the rules that must be followed is BS because it creates a barrier that new players -MUST- overcome in order to be as competitive as the players that came before them. If that is "fun" than it is subjective. Hate to break your heart. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:35:00 - [65] - Quote Respect your opinions but you guys are going about this the wrong way. - Officer weapons are rare. Player Trading made them plentiful in the hands of collectors who spam them. Thats players making lage collections via meta gaming. Don't ignore the effect trade had in making large amounts of proto into the hands of players that afford them. That was determined by the free market, not by the warbarge availability. - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Which leade me to my next point - The biggest cause of officer weapon production is that there is nothing else provided by the warbarge to invest worth investing compeonents into. I have the option of investing 10,000 warbarge components: 1) 100 more components per 24 hours, 25 days to earn back 2) A tiny increase of SP (67 million SP whats an extra 1,00 going to do for me?) 3) 1 % of damage. 4) A ferw thousand more Isk 5) Experimental / officer gear which in turn gives me access to trade markets and meta gaming. Its not even a realistic comparision. There is no levels 6 to save components for and invest into. That leaves the only worthwhile option collecting weapons to trade and enhance the meta game experience. Have something cool for the remaining, unfinished levels of the warbarge, and you will see player invest more components in other items than just officer gear. Much better than punishing the entire playerbase for the market forces that lets us use officer in pubs. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:40:00 - [66] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Respect your opinions but you guys are going about this the wrong way. - Officer weapons are rare. Player Trading made them plentiful in the hands of collectors who spam them. Thats players making lage collections via meta gaming. Don't ignore the effect trade had in making large amounts of proto into the hands of players that afford them. That was determined by the free market, not by the warbarge availability. - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Which leade me to my next point - The biggest cause of officer weapon production is that there is nothing else provided by the warbarge to invest worth investing compeonents into. I have the option of investing 10,000 warbarge components: 1) 100 more components per 24 hours, 25 days to earn back 2) A tiny increase of SP (67 million SP whats an extra 1,00 going to do for me?) 3) 1 % of damage. 4) A ferw thousand more Isk 5) Experimental / officer gear which in turn gives me access to trade markets and meta gaming. Its not even a realistic comparision. There is no levels 6 to save components for and invest into. That leaves the only worthwhile option collecting weapons to trade and enhance the meta game experience. Have something cool for the remaining, unfinished levels of the warbarge, and you will see player invest more components in other items than just officer gear. Much better than punishing the entire playerbase for the market forces that lets us use officer in pubs. May be true for some players, not true for others. From experience, I have my Warbarge set up so that I can get two (2) free weapons from the Experimental Lab and still have Warbarge Components left over. A player that takes the time to set up their warbarge correctly and invests components correctly will 100% be able to make passive gains. We know of one player (not saying names) that uses alt accounts to farm officer gear in this manner. Officer proliferation is made much easier by the free market, yes, and there is no intention of limiting that. However the sheer amount that is being created and put into the market is cause for concern considering this possibility to exploit being that Dust 514 is a FTP game. Any player that has enough real life money to throw at the problem can create an alt farm and input much more officer gear into the system than is reasonable for simply logging into the game. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:44:00 - [67] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Tesa, what are you on? Just claim the experimental lab's goods every other day and you still net positive warbarge components. You can speed it up by playing matches, sure, but it is still passive. At level V a warbarge produces 600 components per day, by the way. Veterans have the mobile factory V by now. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:50:00 - [68] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Tesa, what are you on? Just claim the experimental lab's goods every other day and you still net positive warbarge components. You can speed it up by playing matches, sure, but it is still passive. At level V a warbarge produces 600 components per day, by the way. Veterans have the mobile factory V by now. No more passive than ISK or SP. Technically nobody needs to play to generate either. But if you aint playing you aren't earning enough. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:51:00 - [69] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Tesa, what are you on? Just claim the experimental lab's goods every other day and you still net positive warbarge components. You can speed it up by playing matches, sure, but it is still passive. At level V a warbarge produces 600 components per day, by the way. Veterans have the mobile factory V by now. No more passive than ISK or SP. Technically nobody needs to play to generate either. But if you aint playing you aren't earning enough. If that were true, this thread wouldn't exist, lol. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 15:04:00 - [70] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: May be true for some players, not true for others. From experience, I have my Warbarge set up so that I can get two (2) free weapons from the Experimental Lab and still have Warbarge Components left over. A player that takes the time to set up their warbarge correctly and invests components correctly will 100% be able to make passive gains. We know of one player (not saying names) that uses alt accounts to farm officer gear in this manner. Officer proliferation is made much easier by the free market, yes, and there is no intention of limiting that. However the sheer amount that is being created and put into the market is cause for concern considering this possibility to exploit being that Dust 514 is a FTP game. Any player that has enough real life money to throw at the problem can create an alt farm and input much more officer gear into the system than is reasonable for simply logging into the game. I understand the concern about throwing in enough money for farming compenets, but that was deliberatley chosen by CCP, the day they made the design descision to have warbarges sockets cost exponentially large amounts of componenets, and sell the same components for aruum. Unless CCP change the components cost of new/ upgrading subsystems (i would prefer increase AUR cost, or a decrease in subsystem cost for FTP) that isnt going to change. Unless CCP introduce new subsystems the only thing left to spend components on is experimental weapons and gear. My own set up I can collect weapons every day and have a pool of components left over, but thats because I actively play and collect components. 6 items I collect every 2 days is tiny amount compared to how much adv/proto gear I go through. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 15:44:00 - [71] - Quote For what it's worth, I think the experimental lab should produce mainly experimental weapons, producing officer only on rare occasions. Perhaps something like 90% experimental, 10% officer. This would be an easy improvement for CCP to implement. Firstly this makes sense based on the fact that it's called an experimental lab. The experimental lab is the only source of experimental gear. Also, experimental gear should be more common than officer since it is less powerful. I feel officer gear is a little too prevalent for it's power. I do not think experimental gear is such an issue as it is only a small amount better than proto, whereas officer is a lot better. As for the wider subject of the warbarge, I think it is unlikely to change much. I am against passive generation of assets. I thought the warbarge subsystems were going to provide a bonus to rewards earned in game, not just give you stuff. I thought the lab was supposed to use components salvaged from battle. The augmented ammo providing +% damage I am against. This really is getting into pay to win territory. Many people were upset by this when it was released, but accepted it on the basis you could only get a 4 or 5% bonus. Now this has been increased, making it worse. In fact, I wish the game was devoid of passive bonuses entirely. Skill points giving access to more expensive gear is fine, as you pay for the better gear. But skills that just bonus what you have are bad, and shouldn't have been part of the game from the start. At least they could have given minor advantages, not the major ones we have. This is a large cause of the poor new player experience in my opinion. To be honest, the more in depth I think about this, the more I want CCP to just start again with a clean slate. By the way. An Apex suit is no more problematic than arum gear. You could always pay money to avoid the risk to your isk wallet. I don't have a problem with this. At least they are only a little better than standard suits. Giving medium frames the hp of an assault would help even the odds for new players.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:03:00 - [72] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: For what it's worth, I think the experimental lab should produce mainly experimental weapons, producing officer only on rare occasions. Perhaps something like 90% experimental, 10% officer. This would be an easy improvement for CCP to implement. Firstly this makes sense based on the fact that it's called an experimental lab. The experimental lab is the only source of experimental gear. Also, experimental gear should be more common than officer since it is less powerful. I feel officer gear is a little too prevalent for it's power. I do not think experimental gear is such an issue as it is only a small amount better than proto, whereas officer is a lot better. As for the wider subject of the warbarge, I think it is unlikely to change much. I am against passive generation of assets. I thought the warbarge subsystems were going to provide a bonus to rewards earned in game, not just give you stuff. I thought the lab was supposed to use components salvaged from battle. The augmented ammo providing +% damage I am against. This really is getting into pay to win territory. Many people were upset by this when it was released, but accepted it on the basis you could only get a 4 or 5% bonus. Now this has been increased, making it worse. In fact, I wish the game was devoid of passive bonuses entirely. Skill points giving access to more expensive gear is fine, as you pay for the better gear. But skills that just bonus what you have are bad, and shouldn't have been part of the game from the start. At least they could have given minor advantages, not the major ones we have. This is a large cause of the poor new player experience in my opinion. To be honest, the more in depth I think about this, the more I want CCP to just start again with a clean slate. By the way. An Apex suit is no more problematic than arum gear. You could always pay money to avoid the risk to your isk wallet. I don't have a problem with this. At least they are only a little better than standard suits. Giving medium frames the hp of an assault would help even the odds for new players. Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 149	Posted - 2015.10.18 17:29:00 - [73] - Quote The amount of whining that removing the passive generation of officer weapons from the lab is vexing. It's an Experimental Lab and should produce just that, experimental weapons. The people i see crying the most are the ones who buy them all up and stomp. Good God. Help us all. The stompers are crying. The passive production of officer bullshit needs a serious decrease in drop rates. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 5	Posted - 2015.10.18 17:56:00 - [74] - Quote XD thread was a good read over lunch. NoobCavman Has DS3 Sized Hands
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 359	Posted - 2015.10.18 18:00:00 - [75] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Making the game better by revoking a bad design decision is never a bait-and-switch. In a perfect world these sorts of things wouldn't happen, but in practice everyone is fallible. To be honest, the over-generation has been going on so long as to prevent a significant stockpiling problem anyways. "There's a problem thing and people have stockpiles of it, so obviously we just need to let everyone keep getting more," is literally the stupidest argument possible. Next thing you know we'll be advocating against nuclear disarmament and anti-proliferation efforts. But it's not a problem thing. The warbarge and the trading that comes from it is one of the games best features. You guys that don't play the game sound so freaking ridiculous talking about things as though you know what you are talking about. The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. You were wrong about respecs and you are wrong about this. Even if it were common it means there's some dude who enjoys trading more than fighting is making ISK off of the stompers. I've proposed before that ISK be removed as a currency and make components our primary currency. Make one tier of suits and weapons and make the market 100% player driven outside of AUR gear. Then the warbarge is less passive as payouts would be your primary source of components. These are the types of things I'd like to see if the game were ported, but for now in the reality of the situation just leave it be. The proto//officer whiners will find something else to whine about and blame their ineffectiveness on. Thor man...I have seen at least one officer suit or weapon in every match I played in in the last week. That's more than a hundred games. I personally killed 3 Balacs this past week, 2 Rats , and I don't even know how many frames. I was mowed down by Ghalags and Viktors in practically every game. They are prolific in pubs. I don't know what the answer is to the issue, but rather you like it or not it is an issue. The funny thing is I seen less officer gear in the PCs I ran last week. So that means they are just running them to pub stomp not to PC. That's because pubs mean a much lower chance of losing them. Personally I think its too late to do anything about them without an asset refund/wipe, but I am open to ideas that make these less common without simply making some of us even richer by stopping the supply side of the equation.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 19:17:00 - [76] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. That's because people don't like to buy something that isn't permanent. I think of Apex suits as being similar to the starter fits. Yes they diminish the risk / reward gameplay. However they don't destroy it. There is plenty of room for escalation and risk vs reward with advanced, proto, experimental and officer gear. Plus vehicles.
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 149	Posted - 2015.10.18 19:27:00 - [77] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. That's because people don't like to buy something that isn't permanent. I think of Apex suits as being similar to the starter fits. Yes they diminish the risk / reward gameplay. However they don't destroy it. There is plenty of room for escalation and risk vs reward with advanced, proto, experimental and officer gear. Plus vehicles. They need to increase the CPU and PG slightly on the APEX suits My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 19:29:00 - [78] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. That's because people don't like to buy something that isn't permanent. I think of Apex suits as being similar to the starter fits. Yes they diminish the risk / reward gameplay. However they don't destroy it. There is plenty of room for escalation and risk vs reward with advanced, proto, experimental and officer gear. Plus vehicles. They need to increase the CPU and PG slightly on the APEX suits Agreed. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 20:01:00 - [79] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. That's because people don't like to buy something that isn't permanent. I think of Apex suits as being similar to the starter fits. Yes they diminish the risk / reward gameplay. However they don't destroy it. There is plenty of room for escalation and risk vs reward with advanced, proto, experimental and officer gear. Plus vehicles. Whether or not there is escalation is of no circumstance to the risk/reward of APEX BPOs. You deploy in an APEX BPO, you are exempt from losses. Is there better gear? Yes. That has nothing to do with the fact that you're not spending ISK on the gear you are using and the fact that it is more competitive than Standard and Militia gear. The only items that should be free are the bottom of the barrel, low-end performance. I don't get irritated when a player kills me with a Militia Ion Pistol in a Starter Suit. I get very irritated when Johnny Nobody kills me with a Prototype Weapon on an APEX Suit. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 21:16:00 - [80] - Quote They do have to pay for the prototype weapon though.

Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 185	Posted - 2015.10.18 21:39:00 - [81] - Quote Yeah not so sure you made a good example there. Of course they're not risking the cost of the suit but they're paying for and risking the cost of the improvement they've made to it. I run my (unmodified) Shaman APEX a fair bit and compared to an ADV minlogi I have to work a lot harder to get the same result. It gets the job done but I have to be johnny-on-the-spot if I want that Amarr Sent to catch enough reps in time, ninja rez a squadmate out in the open or refill that HMG before the next wave of redberries come. The risk associated with running APEX is that it's going to be much easier to take you out of the battle. Less uptime = less WP, less WP = less payout. You should probably also keep in mind that APEX is Dusts answer to Eves PLEX. A very popular item that brings in lots of cash. EDIT: sorry for the minor derail. Something is killing new player retention.
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 149	Posted - 2015.10.18 22:58:00 - [82] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sales on the aurum gear, to my knowledge, are so abyssmally low they might as well not even exist. They're just market clutter. That and the fact that LP gear essentially does the same exact thing (but actually requires playing the game!) drives the point home a lot. That's because people don't like to buy something that isn't permanent. I think of Apex suits as being similar to the starter fits. Yes they diminish the risk / reward gameplay. However they don't destroy it. There is plenty of room for escalation and risk vs reward with advanced, proto, experimental and officer gear. Plus vehicles. Whether or not there is escalation is of no circumstance to the risk/reward of APEX BPOs. You deploy in an APEX BPO, you are exempt from losses. Is there better gear? Yes. That has nothing to do with the fact that you're not spending ISK on the gear you are using and the fact that it is more competitive than Standard and Militia gear. The only items that should be free are the bottom of the barrel, low-end performance. I don't get irritated when a player kills me with a Militia Ion Pistol in a Starter Suit. I get very irritated when Johnny Nobody kills me with a Prototype Weapon on an APEX Suit. I don't know a single player who runs an unmodifed APEX. I sure as hell don't. They aren't very good to start with. On my Rasetsu I remove both dmg mods in favor of complex extenders. I take off the scan mod in favor of enhanced armor plates. ARR put in place of the RR. Uplink replaces hive. The only thing I'm not paying for is the dropsuit itself. I change everything else. Sometimes i have to add CPU/PG mods but hey, it's what i like. Just because I'm in an APEX doesn't mean I'm not losing anything. I'm not the only merc in these boots either. Furthermore, the thread will quickly derail if the topic shifts to dropsuits. That being said, reduce the drop rate of officer bs that comes out of the Exp Lab. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
Starlight Burner Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 560	Posted - 2015.10.18 23:34:00 - [83] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: I absolutely agree that officer weapons are too prolific now. You see them in nearly every game. Killing a person with such weapons use to mean something but not anymore when the said person has hundreds of such weapons now. Experimental weapon labs should only be able to pump out experimental weapons. A new subsystem should be made for officer weapons that produces officer weapon parts daily. Combining the parts with the experimental weapons should produce the officer weapon with a certain time period (maybe make another subsystem for this?) The warbarge subsystem is not the only place officer weapons come out of. The strongboxes as well, its alright if no one uses aurum to buy keys, I feel that is just a pay to win tactic. The Eristic wrote: Like many things in the history of Dust, it was a bad idea in the first place, but it's probably too late to do anything about it now. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 503	Posted - 2015.10.18 23:59:00 - [84] - Quote 1. I hoard my officer gear, mostly for the intent of PC. Truthfully I've never even used an officer weapon. I've got mixed feelings about officer gear proliferation. I think it's the spam replacing proto. 2. If the weapons and gear are incredibly rare I'm fine with a very low level of passive production. I'm truthfully happier with production of proto or experimental gear. 3. Unlike a suit or other BPO being taken away if people were unhappy with an alteration to the results of what the experimental lab produces CCP could refund the Aur to get the lab to the particular level. I'm sure there are players that would be upset. I threw a fit when the Serpent Scout was altered when they were set fittings. I'd say if adjustments are made tread carefully and don't be too drastic.
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations 3	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:26:00 - [85] - Quote Make the chance to drop officer from warbarge very low, instead of costing components, they should cost a lot of ISK (maybe ~250K/weapon, and you won't know what kind it is until you pay). Reduce the chance for officer from drop boxes. Keep them very rare/expensive and it will work fine. Best PvE idea ever!
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:32:00 - [86] - Quote What about instead of using WB components for the experimental factory, we use ISK instead? Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 185	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:36:00 - [87] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: What about instead of using WB components for the experimental factory, we use ISK instead? ISK as a limiting factor is pretty ineffectual at this point. Something is killing new player retention.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.19 03:44:00 - [88] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: What about instead of using WB components for the experimental factory, we use ISK instead? ISK as a limiting factor is pretty ineffectual at this point. And then we make it only experimental gear, therefore putting more experimental gear into circulation and putting less officer gear into circulation. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Summa Militum Abstract Requiem 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 04:35:00 - [89] - Quote I think it would be a good idea to remove Officer Gear from the Experimental Lab and to double the amount of time it takes to produce Experimental Gear.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 185	Posted - 2015.10.19 05:38:00 - [90] - Quote When I do my qq about tier lock, it's always from the perspective of improving the size of the playerbase. With the current size of the playerbase in Dust, Scotty is inevitably going to be putting new players up against experienced, knowledgeable vets geared to the teeth utilizing full bonuses from SP. New players aren't dumb, either. They're quickly going to work out the stat difference and the SP & ISK needed to get there, and they're going to be dissuaded. I know that stats don't mean everything, but you can kinda see where the new player is coming from. All they're trying to do is learn the game but they're being asked to do it while facing established players with a couple too many advantages. Weapon, map, game-mode and teamplay knowledge is usually enough to ensure that established players will make life pretty hard for new players in any FPS. Yet here we are giving established players more HP, more DPS, better EWAR, etc on top of all that. For the sake of being able to play the game we love for longer than anyone expected, maybe we could tone it down a little? The day Dust has a playerbase to support proper matchmaking I will drop the issue. But until then. Tier lock. Something is killing new player retention.

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.19 06:25:00 - [91] - Quote Quote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? The amount of officer gear seen in even pub matches is absurd. Seeing Officer gear should be some incredibly rare, even more so in less important public matches. It was allowed to be overpowered because it was rare and only came as a random drop. But that's really no longer the case. Passive generation of pretty much anything is a horrible idea. It's what ruined PC and it's what make the launch of the Warbarge system largely dissatisfying and potentially problematic. The passive generation of officer gear paired with the near infinite amount of PSN accounts pretty much means any player can farm these weapons without ever stepping foot in-match. That's just wrong. If CCP is concerned about the players investment in the Warbarge systems generating this officer gear, then alter the function of said subsystem and make it an integral part of the new crafting system. However crafting ends up working, using the that subsystem of the warbarge allows players who have made that investment to still gain tangible benefit from it, while stemming the flow of officer gear into the game at the current (and entirely inappropriate) rate "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.19 06:25:00 - [92] - Quote Before warbarge: get 3 random officer weapons in salvage. Get happy. After warbarge: Never get any officer in EoM again, get tons of officer in warbarge. Not as satisfying as before. At the beginning, I only wanted the lab for the Roden (I'll miss you 550 damage), not officer. I get more officer gear than I do experimental. My .02 are these: -completely remove officer from lab and make it produce experimental only. -increase officer EoM drop, or add it back in. I wouldn't know if this was still a thing. -remove ADV from strong boxes (pl0x) *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
jpmannu 114	Posted - 2015.10.19 06:30:00 - [93] - Quote Well, some weapons you never get from the lab such as thales, balac's and kalante's. Never seen a drop of one since the beginning. Anyway, maybe officer gear should be obtained only at level 5 or higher... PIJATELAINDERCHIUL
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 149	Posted - 2015.10.19 10:24:00 - [94] - Quote jpmannu wrote: Well, some weapons you never get from the lab such as thales, balac's and kalante's. Never seen a drop of one since the beginning. Anyway, maybe officer gear should be obtained only at level 5 or higher... Thales +ù9 Kalentes +ù4 Balacs +ù3 All of those from the warbarge. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 998	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:29:00 - [95] - Quote Officer Weapons are now endemic within pubs and factional. Since they were designed to be game-breaking by default, this has had an adverse affect upon the game experience. That being said, super-rare, hard to obtain and functionally powerful gear is something that Dust can claim as a unique and enjoyable feature. I'd hate to see them removed completely. My thoughts on how to balance them appropriately: 1) Remove passive generation of both officer and experimental weapons from the warbarge by fundementally redesigning the way in which the Experimental Lab functions. - The lab no longer passively generates random bits of rare gear for warbarge components, but instead creates limited run blueprints for Experimental Weapons. -Each BP will produce 3 Experimental Weapons of the same type once it has been claimed and then activated. It will then expire. Claiming a BP requires no warbarge components, but choosing to produce the weapons ('activating') will require Salvage components. -BP's can be stored in your assets after claiming them. They are tradeable items. -Upgrading the Experiemental Lab increases its production efficiency, with each level reducing the Salvage components required to produce the weapons. 2) Officer gear is removed from the game, and replaced with limited-run Blueprints that can be obtained through strongboxes or, on incredibly rare occurances, as loot from the battlefield. -Officer BP's function exactly as Experimental BP's, except that they can produce only one item before expiring. -An officer BP can only be activated if the player owns an Experimental Weapon of the same type as the officer BP or, in the case of officer suits, a prototype version of that suit. They must also pay a further cost in Salvage components, by default the rarest ones seeded. If the player meets these requirements, they may create an officer piece. -Both the Experimental Weapon and the officer BP are consumed in this process. -Officer BP's are tradeable items. Actual officer gear, however, is bound to the player who created it. It's a crafting system that has at its heart a resource that can only be obtained from battle, whereby Experimental gear can be obtained in small quantities at a reasonably reliable rate so long as you keep playing and stay to the end of the match to be in with a chance of picking up salvage. True officer gear is now truly RNG'd, but not removed entirely, and adding in the extra level of crafting to bring them into the game proper gives the player choice as to whether to hold onto the Blueprint for when they really want to convert it into the gear or to sell it to somebody else who does need it, but doesn't have it. EDIT - And here's an idea that deals with this issue from another angle; reduce harvesting accounts (whereby all three mercs assigned to an account have access to an individual warbarge that generates seperate assets) and give each player ONE warbarge for their account. Players must designate one of their mercs as the Captain, who can access and operates the wrabrges' functions and assets. These can be distributed between the other two mercs on that account freely, with no ISK fee for item transfers. Thoughts? Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Daemonn Adima Y.A.M.A.H 419	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:50:00 - [96] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: When I do my qq about tier lock, it's always from the perspective of improving the size of the playerbase. With the current size of the playerbase in Dust, Scotty is inevitably going to be putting new players up against experienced, knowledgeable vets geared to the teeth utilizing full bonuses from SP. New players aren't dumb, either. They're quickly going to work out the stat difference and the SP & ISK needed to get there, and they're going to be dissuaded. I know that stats don't mean everything, but you can kinda see where the new player is coming from. All they're trying to do is learn the game but they're being asked to do it while facing established players with a couple too many advantages. Weapon, map, game-mode and teamplay knowledge is usually enough to ensure that established players will make life pretty hard for new players in any FPS. Yet here we are giving established players more HP, more DPS, better EWAR, etc on top of all that. For the sake of being able to play the game we love for longer than anyone expected, maybe we could tone it down a little? The day Dust has a playerbase to support proper matchmaking I will drop the issue. But until then. Tier lock. ^ This. I played a game yesterday, some dude named Little Zach from turdrock went like 20+ kills to 0 deaths while running Scotsman Gk.0 and Ghalags RR even while they out numbered us 15 - 9. He just camped a roof with hives and would run whenever his shield was popped. That one player made a huge difference in the meta of that game, at first we weren't out numbered but within 5 minutes of playing several people dropped because we were getting spanked right off the bat. These players who have tons of isk and gear already don't really fear dying, running proto/officer then helps limit the chance of that happening. Any new player who wants to go after someone like that because they think its just a normal FPS, if they land enough shots even the highest of tier players should die. Nope, not in Dust, where you effectively have to land double the amount of shots to take that top tier player out where as they only have to land a 1/3rd of the same amount to kill that new player. New player checks out gear he's been killed with and notices its going to take months of just grinding SP to get anything prototype, let alone all the passive SP bonuses from skills and then if the player doesn't want to dump every single point of SP into one suit or weapon it will take them years to become flexible with complex mods and proto equipment across several suits and several weapons. Realizing the other players around them are already there, suddenly they ask themselves "why am I playing this game?" Maybe remove exp./ofc gear skill prerequisites so new players can readily use them and allow them to obtain them through the warbarge easier/cheaper than it is now. Instead of taking away the passive generation for some, what if we gave it to everyone? No one would lose anything and meanwhile new players could access high end gear early on which would help balance those games where they feel they are getting stomped. At least they would feel like "oh ** proto stomp going down, I can get out my stuff and try to kill a few" rather than "oh ** proto stomp going down, I have no WP yet so I'll just find another game". I could see vets getting ruslted at the thought of new players having access to stuff that took them awhile to get, but that's about it. This would overall benefit everyone.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.19 16:59:00 - [97] - Quote Oh and if you do change the warbarge to only produce experimental weapons, please add experimental sidearms. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Eternal Beings RUST415 841	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:03:00 - [98] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Answer to 1,2, and 3 is a simple, yet conflicting truth. If Officer/Experimental weaponry is removed or altered by any means through the warbarge, people who invested real currency will be pissed exponentially. A great solution would be to refund the players aurum in equivalence to what has been spent in regards to upgrades and whatnot. Refunding in Warbarge components however is useless, as the only real purpose they have is for collecting exp/officer gear. LOGi GOD // Master of Healers // *Director of Eternal Beings* // *GF-FA-NF Alumni Directorate*
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Eternal Beings RUST415 841	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:06:00 - [99] - Quote Daemonn Adima wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: When I do my qq about tier lock, it's always from the perspective of improving the size of the playerbase. With the current size of the playerbase in Dust, Scotty is inevitably going to be putting new players up against experienced, knowledgeable vets geared to the teeth utilizing full bonuses from SP. New players aren't dumb, either. They're quickly going to work out the stat difference and the SP & ISK needed to get there, and they're going to be dissuaded. I know that stats don't mean everything, but you can kinda see where the new player is coming from. All they're trying to do is learn the game but they're being asked to do it while facing established players with a couple too many advantages. Weapon, map, game-mode and teamplay knowledge is usually enough to ensure that established players will make life pretty hard for new players in any FPS. Yet here we are giving established players more HP, more DPS, better EWAR, etc on top of all that. For the sake of being able to play the game we love for longer than anyone expected, maybe we could tone it down a little? The day Dust has a playerbase to support proper matchmaking I will drop the issue. But until then. Tier lock. ^ This. I played a game yesterday, some dude named Little Zach from turdrock went like 20+ kills to 0 deaths while running Scotsman Gk.0 and Ghalags RR even while they out numbered us 15 - 9. He just camped a roof with hives and would run whenever his shield was popped. That one player made a huge difference in the meta of that game, at first we weren't out numbered but within 5 minutes of playing several people dropped because we were getting spanked right off the bat. These players who have tons of isk and gear already don't really fear dying, running proto/officer then helps limit the chance of that happening. Any new player who wants to go after someone like that because they think its just a normal FPS, if they land enough shots even the highest of tier players should die. Nope, not in Dust, where you effectively have to land double the amount of shots to take that top tier player out where as they only have to land a 1/3rd of the same amount to kill that new player. New player checks out gear he's been killed with and notices its going to take months of just grinding SP to get anything prototype, let alone all the passive SP bonuses from skills and then if the player doesn't want to dump every single point of SP into one suit or weapon it will take them years to become flexible with complex mods and proto equipment across several suits and several weapons. Realizing the other players around them are already there, suddenly they ask themselves "why am I playing this game?" Maybe remove exp./ofc gear skill prerequisites so new players can readily use them and allow them to obtain them through the warbarge easier/cheaper than it is now. Instead of taking away the passive generation for some, what if we gave it to everyone? No one would lose anything and meanwhile new players could access high end gear early on which would help balance those games where they feel they are getting stomped. At least they would feel like "oh ** proto stomp going down, I can get out my stuff and try to kill a few" rather than "oh proto stomp going down, I have no WP yet so I'll just find another game". I could see vets getting ruslted at the thought of new players having access to stuff that took them awhile to get, but that's about it. This would overall benefit everyone. Or just maybe... One of you could have got a dropship and blasted him off his perch, instead of watching the light show? LOGi GOD // Master of Healers // Director of Eternal Beings // GF-FA-NF Alumni Directorate**
ANON Cerberus TerranProtossZerg 861	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:32:00 - [100] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Respect your opinions but you guys are going about this the wrong way. - Officer weapons are rare. Player Trading made them plentiful in the hands of collectors who spam them. Thats players making lage collections via meta gaming. Don't ignore the effect trade had in making large amounts of proto into the hands of players that afford them. That was determined by the free market, not by the warbarge availability. - Collecting via the warbarge is hardly passive. You do not make enough components per day to collect your officer/experimental gear. You'll run out of components simply logging in and collecting weapons then signing out.You have to activley play and finish either missions or salvage warbarge components from matches in order to have enough to collect from the warbarge. I have my exp. lab, and the component factory at level 3. 1) Warbarge produces 600 components every 48 hours 2) Experimental lab cost 1,188 every 48 hours. Produces 6 random experimental/officer gear. 3) Wait 56 hours to collect 48 hours worth of gear with zero 12 components left over or 4) make up the 588 components up through active gaming every 48 hours and via active gaming save unspent componenets fro futre investment. I reiterate, these are active gameplay rewards rather than passively generated ones. Which leade me to my next point - The biggest cause of officer weapon production is that there is nothing else provided by the warbarge to invest worth investing compeonents into. I have the option of investing 10,000 warbarge components: 1) 100 more components per 24 hours, 25 days to earn back 2) A tiny increase of SP (67 million SP whats an extra 1,00 going to do for me?) 3) 1 % of damage. 4) A ferw thousand more Isk 5) Experimental / officer gear which in turn gives me access to trade markets and meta gaming. Its not even a realistic comparision. There is no levels 6 to save components for and invest into. That leaves the only worthwhile option collecting weapons to trade and enhance the meta game experience. Have something cool for the remaining, unfinished levels of the warbarge, and you will see player invest more components in other items than just officer gear. Much better than punishing the entire playerbase for the market forces that lets us use officer in pubs. May be true for some players, not true for others. From experience, I have my Warbarge set up so that I can get two (2) free weapons from the Experimental Lab and still have Warbarge Components left over. A player that takes the time to set up their warbarge correctly and invests components correctly will 100% be able to make passive gains. We know of one player (not saying names) that uses alt accounts to farm officer gear in this manner. Officer proliferation is made much easier by the free market, yes, and there is no intention of limiting that. However the sheer amount that is being created and put into the market is cause for concern considering this possibility to exploit being that Dust 514 is a FTP game. Any player that has enough real life money to throw at the problem can create an alt farm and input much more officer gear into the system than is reasonable for simply logging into the game. Many people farm officer gear from the warbarges and their alts. Have been farming something since the dawn of this game. Hell CCP actively encouraged players to farm alts in EVE... You really dont need to set up anything in any particular fashion. Just log in every day or when you can and claim everything. Eventually you can always claim and then send.

catsrule D3ATH CARD RUST415 43	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:45:00 - [101] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? With how it is now we might as well give everyone the master blueprints for every officer item ever Why do we forget the things we want to remember but remember the things we want to forget ~ Unknown
Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 17:49:00 - [102] - Quote Change the drop rate from the Lab to that of a pub match for Officer gear. Have the lab then spit out more experimental gear (as it should, since somehow I get more officer gear from an "experimental" lab), and a new item that is vital to Simple Crafting. Make simple crafting awesome, but expensive. Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
Koch Rosenzweig S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 829	Posted - 2015.10.19 20:24:00 - [103] - Quote The officer spam isnt funny anymore, also PC battles are getting bored with those officerstomps, there are no more competition if you bring a full team with Rattatis and bons stomping all in the way, there was much more competition and fun in the old days. You spend +1.3 mill in a decent officer suit with all the equipment to play a PC (if you got contacts to buy these items at nice price, also there are a lot of scammers so...) with x5 of these suits you spend almost 6 or 7 millions to run officer suits in a PC, but if you win you get no more than 1.5 mill, that makes no sense... I got +100m to spend on officer suits, but i dont want to stay 1 hour in a chat looking for them, also with a lot of scammers... I KNOW isnt obligatory run officer suits in a match, but you all know that these suits bring more posibilities than the proto ones, its a bit unfair get stomped by these suits, and its more unfair that there are a lot of scrubs trying to scam you In my opinion, CCP should make these items a bit more rare, this is kicking out the fun of this game (doing my best try, i am still practicing my english, at least you can get my point on my opinion, hope that) Skill Of God 4Life - *Director, Diplomat & FC*. My best score in PC
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 448	Posted - 2015.10.19 21:28:00 - [104] - Quote catsrule wrote: With how it is now we might as well give everyone the master blueprints for every officer item ever true! when it's possible to obtain 300+ officer and you'll barely lose it... (squad cover on one guy) might as well call it a blueprint... Forever ADS. Best role.
Byron Triefletcher Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 13	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:43:00 - [105] - Quote Warbarge rollback to experimental and AUR refunds as requested for cash investments. The sooner the better. Fighting for Matari Freedom.
Daemonn Adima Y.A.M.A.H 421	Posted - 2015.10.20 00:53:00 - [106] - Quote xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: Daemonn Adima wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: When I do my qq about tier lock, it's always from the perspective of improving the size of the playerbase. With the current size of the playerbase in Dust, Scotty is inevitably going to be putting new players up against experienced, knowledgeable vets geared to the teeth utilizing full bonuses from SP. New players aren't dumb, either. They're quickly going to work out the stat difference and the SP & ISK needed to get there, and they're going to be dissuaded. I know that stats don't mean everything, but you can kinda see where the new player is coming from. All they're trying to do is learn the game but they're being asked to do it while facing established players with a couple too many advantages. Weapon, map, game-mode and teamplay knowledge is usually enough to ensure that established players will make life pretty hard for new players in any FPS. Yet here we are giving established players more HP, more DPS, better EWAR, etc on top of all that. For the sake of being able to play the game we love for longer than anyone expected, maybe we could tone it down a little? The day Dust has a playerbase to support proper matchmaking I will drop the issue. But until then. Tier lock. ^ This. I played a game yesterday, some dude named Little Zach from turdrock went like 20+ kills to 0 deaths while running Scotsman Gk.0 and Ghalags RR even while they out numbered us 15 - 9. He just camped a roof with hives and would run whenever his shield was popped. That one player made a huge difference in the meta of that game, at first we weren't out numbered but within 5 minutes of playing several people dropped because we were getting spanked right off the bat. These players who have tons of isk and gear already don't really fear dying, running proto/officer then helps limit the chance of that happening. Any new player who wants to go after someone like that because they think its just a normal FPS, if they land enough shots even the highest of tier players should die. Nope, not in Dust, where you effectively have to land double the amount of shots to take that top tier player out where as they only have to land a 1/3rd of the same amount to kill that new player. New player checks out gear he's been killed with and notices its going to take months of just grinding SP to get anything prototype, let alone all the passive SP bonuses from skills and then if the player doesn't want to dump every single point of SP into one suit or weapon it will take them years to become flexible with complex mods and proto equipment across several suits and several weapons. Realizing the other players around them are already there, suddenly they ask themselves "why am I playing this game?" Maybe remove exp./ofc gear skill prerequisites so new players can readily use them and allow them to obtain them through the warbarge easier/cheaper than it is now. Instead of taking away the passive generation for some, what if we gave it to everyone? No one would lose anything and meanwhile new players could access high end gear early on which would help balance those games where they feel they are getting stomped. At least they would feel like "oh ** proto stomp going down, I can get out my stuff and try to kill a few" rather than "oh ** proto stomp going down, I have no WP yet so I'll just find another game". I could see vets getting ruslted at the thought of new players having access to stuff that took them awhile to get, but that's about it. This would overall benefit everyone. Or just maybe... One of you could have got a dropship and blasted him off his perch, instead of watching the light show? It was 15-9 and he was on a platform with cover that he could simply jump off of down into more cover and his buddies. Additionally we did call an ADS to try and get onto the roof above the point, we got up there but got swarmed instantly by proto swarms. If it was so easy, it would happen. Besides, it was just an example of how these players can abuse the gear with little to no risk.
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.20 03:51:00 - [107] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The officer spam isnt funny anymore, also PC battles are getting bored with those officerstomps, there are no more competition if you bring a full team with Rattatis and bons stomping all in the way, there was much more competition and fun in the old days. You spend +1.3 mill in a decent officer suit with all the equipment to play a PC (if you got contacts to buy these items at nice price, also there are a lot of scammers so...) with x5 of these suits you spend almost 6 or 7 millions to run officer suits in a PC, but if you win you get no more than 1.5 mill, that makes no sense... I got +100m to spend on officer suits, but i dont want to stay 1 hour in a chat looking for them, also with a lot of scammers... I KNOW isnt obligatory run officer suits in a match, but you all know that these suits bring more posibilities than the proto ones, its a bit unfair get stomped by these suits, and its more unfair that there are a lot of scrubs trying to scam you In my opinion, CCP should make these items a bit more rare, this is kicking out the fun of this game (doing my best try, i am still practicing my english, at least you can get my point on my opinion, hope that) yo lol...I see SOG videos and all I see in the kill feed from SOG players are bons or Alex HMGs "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Take Off Hoser Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 33	Posted - 2015.10.20 04:54:00 - [108] - Quote Officer gear should have been kept out of the warbarge. It would seem more valuable and rare seeing as how you don't get it that often in match salvage. But I do think the warbarge should make experimental gear and only that. No experimental suits so that would solve the problem of officer suits being everywhere. The description of the lab made me think it was going to produce experimental gear anyways, I was surprised to see officer from it. With all that being said people can still pay to acquire the officer gear from strongboxes making the game pay to win-ish. And removing the weapons all together from the barge is not an option seeing as I paid for it with real money. I'm not sure if all this matters atm with the current server issues ongoing and getting worse by the day, is there something we don't know as to why the quality of gameplay is going to ****?
g li2 Grupo de Asalto Chacal Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.20 08:44:00 - [109] - Quote * The weapons officer should be very rare. It could limit its use to PC. Only be obtained from the spoils of battle * The experimental weapons could be used in any battle and that good as they get. The laboratory may produce only experimental weapons. * The market is a way to keep players who like to trade, the game is more attractive with the economic part * Always respect the investment (real money) for players SOMOS LEYENDA
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 218	Posted - 2015.10.20 09:16:00 - [110] - Quote Experimental lab should make only exp stuff. BUT We need officer lab to CRAFT officer gear from salvage! (sink, metal etc.) dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 80 kk SP and growing

jpmannu 115	Posted - 2015.10.20 11:06:00 - [111] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: jpmannu wrote: Well, some weapons you never get from the lab such as thales, balac's and kalante's. Never seen a drop of one since the beginning. Anyway, maybe officer gear should be obtained only at level 5 or higher... Thales +ù9 Kalentes +ù4 Balacs +ù3 All of those from the warbarge. Thats impossible PIJATELAINDERCHIUL
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 154	Posted - 2015.10.20 15:15:00 - [112] - Quote jpmannu wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: jpmannu wrote: Well, some weapons you never get from the lab such as thales, balac's and kalante's. Never seen a drop of one since the beginning. Anyway, maybe officer gear should be obtained only at level 5 or higher... Thales +ù9 Kalentes +ù4 Balacs +ù3 All of those from the warbarge. Thats impossible Well, using that logic, skins do not drop from strongboxes. I've opened a lot and never saw a skin one time. Therefore, anyone who claims to have gotten a skin from a srongbox is a liar because it's" impossible" . You logic is illogical. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
Viktor Hadah Jr 0uter.Heaven 9	Posted - 2015.10.20 15:58:00 - [113] - Quote am i getting my officer weapon BPO or not? I'm kind of a big deal. Buying dead and inactive corporations
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2015.10.20 17:50:00 - [114] - Quote Passive generation (of anything) is bad.., M'kay However, given the system we have today, my preference would be the following: 1: Experimental Lab should only generates Experimental Weapons. (I always wondered why my scientists manages to replicate custom made officer weapons to begin with) 2: Populate the District Market with Officer Weapons, giving CCP the ability to regulate them via DK price. (So the only sources of "new" officer weapons are; Strongboxes + District Market) I would be perfectly fine with a reduction of production in the warbarge, and I used AUR to upgrade it.
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP RUST415 632	Posted - 2015.10.20 18:40:00 - [115] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Passive generation (of anything) is bad.., M'kay However, given the system we have today, my preference would be the following: 1: Experimental Lab should only generates Experimental Weapons. (I always wondered why my scientists manages to replicate custom made officer weapons to begin with) 2: Populate the District Market with Officer Weapons, giving CCP the ability to regulate them via DK price. (So the only sources of "new" officer weapons are; Strongboxes + District Market) I would be perfectly fine with a reduction of production in the warbarge, and I used AUR to upgrade it. That !!!.. Experimental lab = experimental weapons. Officer Weapons are rare so only find it in a StrongBox... And DK maybe just offer packs of Keys ... maybe 5 keys per 10,000 DK... and doesn't compite with aurum key purchases. And for the love of God !!! Remove Shields / CPU / RA module complex from Strongboxes !!! Also Donkey Kong Market need.. Quafe BPC Items... like turrets and vehicles. -- Ecce Initio -- Tomate Pote -- *Respectu, Honorem, Value, Unionem*******
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 695	Posted - 2015.10.20 19:46:00 - [116] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: We know of one player (not saying names) that uses alt accounts to farm officer gear in this manner. Hmm I can't be the only one who does this? hehe. I'd be fine with any changes to the warbarge in general. I'm fine with how things are now as far as officer gear generation goes. I felt like something was needed to improve officer gear drop rates when they were severly reduced as salvage rewards. But even a reduced drop rate from warbarge would be fine if it kept things in balance.
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 235	Posted - 2015.10.20 20:36:00 - [117] - Quote 1. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? 2. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? 3. How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? 1. The community got what they asked for ....a plentiful and cheap supply of "rare" weapons. It was fun while it lasted but I suspect it didn't exactly add to the NPE experience and only a few vets stuck around because of Officer weapons. 2. The community loves its crutches. Passive generation was the only way to satisfy the demand. 3. I have "invested" a fair sum. I have a stockpile. I don't use the stuff in pubs or FW as that seems kind of scrubby. If the lab is reconfigured to spit out only experimental then that is along the definition of the lab. As I recall the Officer stuff was just better candy that CCP added to the bowl. I'd be disappointed but I'd rather see the game be improved for the games sake. My fear is there is a large amount of Officer weaponry out in the market and it will take months for things to settle. CCP knows how many of everything was made and can observe the consumption though I doubt they'd ever share the numbers or show the curves. As for proposed short term fixes: 1a. Experimental lab spits out experimental gear.....period.....or 1b. If you take the lab to level 5 then 1 weapon could be an Officer level. (Now we find out who wants to spend 50k+ WBC for crutches) 2. Increase the fitting requirements of all the Officer weapons in line with STD, ADV and Proto tiers. 3. Adjust box drop rates in the short term to zero Officer weapons. Consider putting nothing less than Proto stuff in boxes. Let the market work itself out. In three or four months let's see where things end up. Long term fix: 4. Reconfigure the Warbarge. I believe the Warbarge could help address some other issues (but not lag, memory) This fix is it own thread so I won't go into it here. 5. Add a skill level requirement for Officer gear. Having to skill to level 6 at a cost of 4 million skill points to run the gear will force decisions and add another reason for the high SP players to actually grind just like everybody else. I realize 4 and 5 will likely involve client changes hence the reason those suggestions should be part of long term plan. Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way with YES!
IR Scifi OSG Planetary Operations 235	Posted - 2015.10.21 04:58:00 - [118] - Quote Just saw the announcement about the warbarge no longer dropping officer equip. I'm happy with the change but this seemed to get pushed through quick. Was this ultimately what the cpm had hoped for as a solution or is this just considered a step one?
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 224	Posted - 2015.10.21 05:12:00 - [119] - Quote I can't see this being anything more than step one. With the quantity of officer stuff already in circulation, this change is going to take a while to have it's effects felt. Something is killing new player retention.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 05:17:00 - [120] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: I can't see this being anything more than step one. With the quantity of officer stuff already in circulation, this change is going to take a while to have it's effects felt. Oh I foresee it will dramatically change the player market. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!

KRUSTY Hellcrabs Thunderchiefs 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 05:31:00 - [121] - Quote Ok, but we have got to be able to play Warbarge Component Poker, in Merc Quarters. Just in time for Eve Vegas :)
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2015.10.21 05:38:00 - [122] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: I can't see this being anything more than step one. With the quantity of officer stuff already in circulation, this change is going to take a while to have it's effects felt. Oh I foresee it will dramatically change the player market. Of course, at this point the player market is 90% officer gear. I think that even if it doubled/tripled in price we'd still get the same people running it in pubs. There'll be a tipping point where it gets too expensive to run just to ensure a few extra points on the KD. No idea where that is, it's tied to the depth of the pubstars wallets. Something is killing new player retention.
Nestil Nos Nothi 373	Posted - 2015.10.21 07:50:00 - [123] - Quote Why not make officer gear craftable? I mean we have all the materials stocked.... Idk maybe you need then 1-2 exp weapons to create an officer weapon. The result depends on the combination of used crafting materials.... Edit: and now remove all the super crappy std/adv stuff from strongboxes... I hate getting quafe turrets or quafe LAV's or std tanks, glitched adv breach SMGs or other worthless crap. 'LR4-Trading' Protester
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 08:11:00 - [124] - Quote Nestil wrote: Why not make officer gear craftable? I mean we have all the materials stocked.... Idk maybe you need then 1-2 exp weapons to create an officer weapon. The result depends on the combination of used crafting materials.... Edit: and now remove all the super crappy std/adv stuff from strongboxes... I hate getting quafe turrets or quafe LAV's or std tanks, glitched adv breach SMGs or other worthless crap. glitched ADV breach smg's? Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 08:23:00 - [125] - Quote Wow, quick implementation! I see CCP have opted for the more drastic approach of removing officer gear from the lab entirely, rather than reducing the drop rate. Interesting. It will be nice to see more experimental gear, and less officer. It will take a while for officer stomping pubs to diminish I think.
jpmannu 116	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:21:00 - [126] - Quote Buying all Rattatis then .... xD PIJATELAINDERCHIUL
jpmannu 116	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:22:00 - [127] - Quote ...just hoping CCP staff are smart enough to increase the officer gear drop from strongboxes at least... PIJATELAINDERCHIUL
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 935	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:24:00 - [128] - Quote Now that the warbarge no longer produces officer dropsuits can we get experimental dropsuits? ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:29:00 - [129] - Quote Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 156	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:14:00 - [130] - Quote You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013

jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:58:00 - [131] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. officer gear was never a problem, if you get stomped, you would have been stomped anyways. all this does it makes it so you only rarely see it in pc's, or if it's a pure stomp. i VERY rarely see it in pubs anyways. Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 226	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:02:00 - [132] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. officer gear was never a problem, if you get stomped, you would have been stomped anyways. all this does it makes it so you only rarely see it in pc's, or if it's a pure stomp. i VERY rarely see it in pubs anyways. Define very rarely. Something is killing new player retention.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 935	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:06:00 - [133] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:13:00 - [134] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. Wanna play eve?
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 908	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:47:00 - [135] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. What happens when people stop spending aur though? Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:00:00 - [136] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. Someone who plays more will have ISK to blow. They can trade for officer weapons with players who purchase more AUR. The whole time, Mr/Miss F2Player can earn keys for free from doing daily missions. The same F2Players can use their free daily login AUR on keys too. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Lost Apollo Moose Knuckle Pros 161	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:09:00 - [137] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. officer gear was never a problem, if you get stomped, you would have been stomped anyways. all this does it makes it so you only rarely see it in pc's, or if it's a pure stomp. i VERY rarely see it in pubs anyways. Define very rarely. Exactly.. Very rarely my ass. Play at night. Protobears and officer bs everywhere. It's hard to defend against a squad with that mix of gear. So the getting stomped anyway is invalid. My armor is weak, but my shields are relentless. State 'Rasetsu' Assault Born - April 1, 2013
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 211	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:55:00 - [138] - Quote So I didnt read all the posts (Im at work, I should be working) and I apologize if someone already said this. There are tons of those metal -I dont know what that- you get in salvage and that are considered "semi rare". So, how about using those things to create the experimental weapons, giving them as "crafting material", wich would mean there is a limit to the weapons you can get? Of course, you would still need to give warbarge components. Just an idea.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 19:30:00 - [139] - Quote Devadander wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. What happens when people stop spending aur though? and the person spending the aur to get officer gear also has to sell the officer gear. tak eme for example, i'm not short of isk, i don't have a lot but i'm not broke. if i had 100 Balac suits stored up and was the only person with a high amount, what incentive do i have to sell them if i already have 500m isk? not only do i have a large amount of isk but i also have a large quantity of officer gear too. Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 937	Posted - 2015.10.21 20:33:00 - [140] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. Exactly, it's easier for them to obtain, that's why they are paying real money. It is not pay to win though as that advantage can be negated by playing the game more FTP works on the basis you are either time poor and therefore pay to skip the grind or cash poor and have to put the time in to grind Also FTP is a business model to pay for the game, you're not 'beating the system' by not paying, you're free-riding, which isn't an issue if there people who are and it's not P2W (Like Dust) ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage

Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 20:42:00 - [141] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. Exactly, it's easier for them to obtain, that's why they are paying real money. It is not pay to win though as that advantage can be negated by playing the game more FTP works on the basis you are either time poor and therefore pay to skip the grind or cash poor and have to put the time in to grind Also FTP is a business model to pay for the game, you're not 'beating the system' by not paying, you're free-riding, which isn't an issue if there people who are and it's not P2W (Like Dust) No you can't, Without spending money you cannot get keys any faster than anyone else. Short of salvage actually giving something other than useless garbage and std-adv gear. I can't even remember a battle in recent months that wasn't a PC where I got officer gear. Wanna play eve?
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 22:13:00 - [142] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. officer gear was never a problem, if you get stomped, you would have been stomped anyways. all this does it makes it so you only rarely see it in pc's, or if it's a pure stomp. i VERY rarely see it in pubs anyways. Define very rarely. i go multiple matches without seeing any officer gear, and 99% of it is seen when one team is getting redlined, then they switch to it. So, it's not really an issue. Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 22:15:00 - [143] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You did the right thing CCP. No matter what, someone is going to cry. officer gear was never a problem, if you get stomped, you would have been stomped anyways. all this does it makes it so you only rarely see it in pc's, or if it's a pure stomp. i VERY rarely see it in pubs anyways. Define very rarely. Exactly.. Very rarely my ass. Play at night. Protobears and officer bs everywhere. It's hard to defend against a squad with that mix of gear. So the getting stomped anyway is invalid. if you're team is getting stomped, you'd still be stomped with proto. Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 938	Posted - 2015.10.21 22:42:00 - [144] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just posted this is one of th eothe rtopics but the optinion is still the same. Problem i have is that the game has now swung more in favor of a 'pay to win' system. The only place now to get a high chance of getting officer gear in by opening 10 boxes at once, sure you can get a key per day for free but someone who has an extra $50 a week/month will have access to more officer gear than those who just play for free. I think they should have just changed the drop rate of officer gear from the exp lab instead of removing officer altogether. if you have 2 items a day thats 14 items a week, if only 2-4 of those were officer it would greatly reduce the amount we see in game. It was a bit ridiculous before, i redeemed 4 items and all 4 were rattatis Gk.0's so it did need streamlining, just not completely removing But given there's player trading you could play more, earn isk and buy officer gear from another player Therefore not pay to win Doesn't change the fact that the person pouring money into the game is going be able to get more officer gear faster than the person who doesn't. Yes it's still available to others that don't have the money to spend, but the big spender would have the advantage that it is easier for them to obtain. Exactly, it's easier for them to obtain, that's why they are paying real money. It is not pay to win though as that advantage can be negated by playing the game more FTP works on the basis you are either time poor and therefore pay to skip the grind or cash poor and have to put the time in to grind Also FTP is a business model to pay for the game, you're not 'beating the system' by not paying, you're free-riding, which isn't an issue if there people who are and it's not P2W (Like Dust) No you can't, Without spending money you cannot get keys any faster than anyone else. Short of salvage actually giving something other than useless garbage and std-adv gear. I can't even remember a battle in recent months that wasn't a PC where I got officer gear. Not keys, officer gear ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 259	Posted - 2015.10.21 23:33:00 - [145] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: My opinion, Officer weapons are supposed to be rare, and mean something to you when you use them, as well as those you use them on. Experimental should stay. While Experimental is more powerful than your average ISK gear, the increase in effectiveness is minimal compared to Officer. Passive Generation is a bad idea in general, and should be changed. I like you. Your more sensible than the other cpm. Officer gear should not be in a experimental lab. Remove officer gear production. Increase production rate of experimental gear. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 23:41:00 - [146] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: My opinion, Officer weapons are supposed to be rare, and mean something to you when you use them, as well as those you use them on. Experimental should stay. While Experimental is more powerful than your average ISK gear, the increase in effectiveness is minimal compared to Officer. Passive Generation is a bad idea in general, and should be changed. I like you. Your more sensible than the other cpm. Officer gear should not be in a experimental lab. Remove officer gear production. Increase production rate of experimental gear. increase lab production increase officer drop rate from EoM salvage Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.22 07:42:00 - [147] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Not keys, officer gear This is true to a degree, however when was the last time you got officer gear from salvage at the end of a pub match? That is the only other way to get officer gear unless someone in FW/PC uses them, loses said gear and you get lucky at the end of the match. You cant get keys faster, so strongboxes aren't an option for people who can't or won't spend money. Once the amount of officer gear is reduced through people playing, it is going to be stupid expensive cos it's so hard to acquire. Wanna play eve?
Ablerober Haircuts that kill 372	Posted - 2015.10.22 10:42:00 - [148] - Quote The warbarge was always a bad idea. I still can't see any real benefits and I put a lot of cash into this thinking it would enhance my Dust experience. 1) refund Aur 2) remove the warbage 3) limit officer gear to salvage boxes and EOM rewards Apologies if other posters have already suggested similar changes, haven't had a chance to read every reply. Regards, Able.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.22 17:26:00 - [149] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: My opinion, Officer weapons are supposed to be rare, and mean something to you when you use them, as well as those you use them on. Experimental should stay. While Experimental is more powerful than your average ISK gear, the increase in effectiveness is minimal compared to Officer. Passive Generation is a bad idea in general, and should be changed. I like you. Your more sensible than the other cpm. Officer gear should not be in a experimental lab. Remove officer gear production. Increase production rate of experimental gear. Already done Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.22 17:27:00 - [150] - Quote Ablerober wrote: The warbarge was always a bad idea. I still can't see any real benefits and I put a lot of cash into this thinking it would enhance my Dust experience. 1) refund Aur 2) remove the warbage 3) limit officer gear to salvage boxes and EOM rewards Apologies if other posters have already suggested similar changes, haven't had a chance to read every reply. Regards, Able. They have already made the Experimental Laboratory only give you experimental gear. So no more officer gear is coming from the warbarge anymore Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!

Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.22 21:50:00 - [151] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: My opinion, Officer weapons are supposed to be rare, and mean something to you when you use them, as well as those you use them on. Experimental should stay. While Experimental is more powerful than your average ISK gear, the increase in effectiveness is minimal compared to Officer. Passive Generation is a bad idea in general, and should be changed. I like you. Your more sensible than the other cpm. Officer gear should not be in a experimental lab. Remove officer gear production. Increase production rate of experimental gear. For wanting pretty much the same thing, just worded differently? CPM is far too political, imo... Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

I'm the Minotaur

I'm the Minotaur