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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:19:00 - [31] - Quote Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) Dropsuit Usage Rates
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 149	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:23:00 - [32] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. Depends what you think of as too common, I see an officer weapon at least once in every pub. To me that is too common. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? In pubs, far too high. Probably no such thing as 'too high' for FW and PC. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? It seems like the passive generation is built around the fact that you're rolling each time to get one you can actually use. As it stands with trading, every officer weapon you get can be converted to one you can use. Removing trading would really mess things up for the people playing FW and PC though. Unfortunately with the game being in it's current state, any kit that you think players should be able to bring into FW and PC will make it's way into pubs, so you can't balance around the idea of 'players should only want to bring this stuff into FW and PC'. How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? It would be a horrible move to change the way that something (the warbarge) fundamentally worked if even one player payed real money for it. Removing a single source of officer weapons is also missing the problem. No one is complaining of too much officer in FW. No one is complaining of too much officer in PC. Something is killing new player retention.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:23:00 - [33] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Listen, if you make it so that the warbarge only gives Experimental, it won't solve the problem. People will whine about all this experimental gear as well. People will always whine about you running higher tier gear. To answer your questions; I'm fine with the proliferation of officer weaponry. I see them every few games, and me and my friends hunt them down and relieve them of it. Passive generation could be removed for all I care, most buy it anyways. I feel like changes wouldn't affect much and just show the playerbase that if you whine enough you can get what you don't like removed. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:30:00 - [34] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP yields EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. Right now it's hard to find a Bons for less than 500k. A Rattati suit is going for 1.5 mil ISK. If a dude is willing to lose things like that in a pub is that not the ISK sink people have been wanting to see? I don't care what anybody says, gear is not the issue that's harming public matches. We've seen public matches declining in quality for as long as I can remember. There's a problem with participation in public matches. There's no incentive to win so most people give it a shot for a few pushes and then go hide. I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:40:00 - [35] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. There was too much of it pumped into circulation. In my opinion, at least. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Completely agree. Incentivizing earnest participation is an altogether separate issue. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 01:53:00 - [36] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The guys breaking out officer in pubs right now are not nearly as common as people make them out to be. Depends what you think of as too common, I see an officer weapon at least once in every pub. To me that is too common. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? In pubs, far too high. Probably no such thing as 'too high' for FW and PC. How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? It seems like the passive generation is built around the fact that you're rolling each time to get one you can actually use. As it stands with trading, every officer weapon you get can be converted to one you can use. Removing trading would really mess things up for the people playing FW and PC though. Unfortunately with the game being in it's current state, any kit that you think players should be able to bring into FW and PC will make it's way into pubs, so you can't balance around the idea of 'players should only want to bring this stuff into FW and PC'. How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? It would be a horrible move to change the way that something (the warbarge) fundamentally worked if even one player payed real money for it. Removing a single source of officer weapons is also missing the problem. No one is complaining of too much officer in FW. No one is complaining of too much officer in PC. So many people act as though there is something going on in PC and FW. PC is such a small base of players that no development decision should be made in regards to it for any foreseeable future. At the drop of a hat 90% of those participating in PC at the moment could have their sand castle washed away. FW is no more competitive than public matches, it's just that there's a higher percentage of players actually participating because there's an incentive to win. You can also qsync which gives you the ability to guarantee some level of participation by your team. There are mechanics in Dust currently that the masses don't take advantage of. They chose to go solo into public matches and are surprised by the frustration they feel. It all really revolves around that. Creating an environment where casual players can deploy solo in matches and have wonderful experiences means that Dust is no longer Dust. How can you make the guy who wants to hang out on the turret by the redline for an entire match have a good experience without making the dude who wants to capture the objective and win the match happy? It's impossible. Is lower tier gear going to make the objective guy more able to clear a point by himself? Nobody ever answers this. Even with no squads and one tier of weapons public matches will still have so much randomness that matchmaking will have a hard time balancing matches. Make proto gear free. Make labs spit out 50 officer weapons a day. Make competitive veterans fight matches against 3x the number of casuals in matches. It won't change a thing if there's 75% of a team doing random stuff in public matches. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:03:00 - [37] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. There was too much of it pumped into circulation. In my opinion, at least. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Completely agree. Incentivizing earnest participation is an altogether separate issue. I suffer from tunnel vision. Addressing officer gear and the way the warbarge works is just not an issue worth discussing. It's hard to even tell how much of an issue they are. We had a revamp of PC and all that came from it was a bunch of no shows. CEOs thinking they are screwing with elite corps, but robbing their members of a ton of content. On paper I'm sure it made sense to make changes to PC, but mechanics corps would have killed for 2.5 years ago haven't registered on the radar because for whatever reason the majority of Dust hates their R1 buttons. Driving participation in matches should be the only priority for the foreseeable future. Even with a port are we expecting this playerbase to make a port successful? Are people that play other shooters going to enjoy a game where they lose assets while 6 dudes hide in the redline? "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:06:00 - [38] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) I like all of those except for disallowing things in any match type. that only further complicates things and divides the player base. I also see riots happening if you change the Augmented Munitions subsystem. There are people out there who have literally spent thousands of dollars on that damage so it getting shifted to something else would be a huge no no. You can say reset the warbarge to satisfy the people that have spent so much on the weapons facility but they would be stuck with 100s of thousands of components that they no longer want.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:21:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Officer weps are far too common. Both their generation is too great and ability to trade them just emphasizes this. Too many sources. Quote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? Exp gear could be accepted. But, as any, they should have cost to use: be it a single drawback among many good attributes or high fitting cost (note: isk cost is never a balancing factor) Quote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Total removal would entitle a harsh community reaction, and for a reason. Changes should be allowed, up to imaginary "49%" of the original. Whatever that means. I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Seach "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:27:00 - [40] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. I feel like the passive generation of officer weapons was meant to be a way to put them into peoples hands without them spending money. That is no longer needed now that they are all able to be traded and we have free keys every day to churn more into the market. It is time the experimental lab go experimental only. I also agree that the damage bonus was a serious mistake. TTK and balancing have already been a very difficult area without having to balance for players having between 0 and 10% extra damage. It also quickly reaches a point where an advantage is only gained through $$$.

Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:34:00 - [41] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? Officer weps are far too common. Both their generation is too great and ability to trade them just emphasizes this. Too many sources. Quote: How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? Exp gear could be accepted. But, as any, they should have cost to use: be it a single drawback among many good attributes or high fitting cost (note: isk cost is never a balancing factor) Quote: How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Total removal would entitle a harsh community reaction, and for a reason. Changes should be allowed, up to imaginary "49%" of the original. Whatever that means. I have used big buck to upgrade warbarge and I feel very strongly that the following are too powerful: * passive generation of officer items * especially the warbarge damage bonus. That was, IMHO, a big design mistake. An experimental weapon is arguably the most powerful of all the warbarge generated weapons so why would they be acceptable but the officers not? With the laboratory spitting out officer weapons it makes getting the assault variants that are in high demand extremely rare. I think this is just a conceptual feeling people have rather than an actual problem. It's also taken quite some time for the number of officer weapons in circulation to actually be used. If they are any more rare the prices will become so high that they will only be used in obvious stomps in pubs to troll people. Same theory for keeping payouts low, the only people using higher tier gear were the best players in the game. We are in the only period in Dust's history where the masses can build wealth while not having to count pennies trying to win a match. They just aren't choosing to step up their gear to win a match, but the opportunity is there for the first time in the game. Which brings me back to the point of addressing participation. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:44:00 - [42] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP earnings EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) I like all of those except for disallowing things in any match type. that only further complicates things and divides the player base. I also see riots happening if you change the Augmented Munitions subsystem. There are people out there who have literally spent thousands of dollars on that damage so it getting shifted to something else would be a huge no no. You can say reset the warbarge to satisfy the people that have spent so much on the weapons facility but they would be stuck with 100s of thousands of components that they no longer want. Absolutely a fair point. I personally don't mind the augmented ammunition subsystem as is (assuming it is capped at/around 5 levels). That said, there are others who believe that it was a mistake and is causing TTK problems. My thinking is that if they're going to tweak the experimental lab, they should do so in as fairly a manner as possible. To me, that means "reseting" our warbarges and refunding components. If that's an option, why not take the opportunity to also touch up other subsystems where needed while they're at it? If they're eventually going to tinker with augmented ammo, this would be a good time to do it. Wouldn't hurt to improve the less appealing subsystems as well (i.e. Market Network, Neural Statistics). All spitballs, of course. Dropsuit Usage Rates
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.18 02:49:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Absolutely a fair point. I personally don't mind the augmented ammunition subsystem as is (assuming it is capped at/around 5 levels). That said, there are others who believe that it was a mistake and is causing TTK problems. My thinking is that if we're going to fix the experiment lab's officer gear problem, we should do so in as fairly a manner as possible. To me, that means "reseting" warbarges and refunding components. And if we're going to that, why not take that opportunity to also touch up some of the other potential problems? If they're going to fix augmented ammo, this would be a good time to do it. Wouldn't hurt to improve the crappy subsystems while they're at it (i.e. Market Network, Neural Statistics). All spitballs, of course. Personally I want to see the experimental weapons lab free to claim and ONLY produce experimental weapons. I think this would require a partial refund of components used to claim experimental production but no more than 50% as the thing produces almost 50% officer weapons. I feel like the rest is fairly set in stone because while they may not have been the best design they were not performing in a unbalanced and game breaking manner.
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:07:00 - [44] - Quote First of all...leave the augmented munitions lab alone. Secondly...I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. But make it easier to claim the items from the experimental lab. Remove the wb component claim for the experimental weapons or at least have it match the same level of wb components produced in one day. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:09:00 - [45] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 03:43:00 - [46] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious
IR Scifi OSG Planetary Operations 233	Posted - 2015.10.18 04:35:00 - [47] - Quote I don't really have much to contribute beyond what's already been said. As a purely anecdotal observation I can say I'm seeing full officer fits (both suit and weapons) roughly every two to three matches when I'm running pubs. That to me feels to often but I'd like to really see some official numbers to back that up.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 438	Posted - 2015.10.18 05:06:00 - [48] - Quote Okay, i know this is going to need a full 6k to fully explain... But I'm tired, i have no time (still working on pilot suits when i have free computer time).. N it's late. My suggestions? Firstly... Experimental lab + crafting = yes. So make experimental modules n suits (e.g a shield regulator that's powerful, but lowers sHP/s significantly, or a g-1 assault which has increased speed, but decreased armor... More components and assets put in, higher tier experimental comes out (up to proto) . Weapons should be rare to come across. Avoids high powered weapons while being a good asset still. /* DON'T MEAN REMOVE WEAPONS FROM THE LAB NEVERTHELESS... just add more things to get other than straight x- weapons/officer suits/weapons / Secondly, KEY PRODUCTION FROM THE LAB * nuff said. No need to explain. Thirdly, (and the one that wants the explanation), ammo types... Experimental labs produces experimental ammo. Experimental ammo means... You gotta experiment, test, and create ammo specifically for you. This involves taking ammo types from EvE, which is a whole other topic to discuss. We all know experiments fail sometimes... So it should have a failure rate, too. Just what i think of it (i only read first page of the thread then replied before i forget my ideas or fall asleep, might have said something someone already said) Edit: Augmented munitions = ammo types rather than damage .. If that would make more sense (read last page now ;D) And, the ability to trade components. Hmm? Forever ADS. Best role.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 317	Posted - 2015.10.18 05:12:00 - [49] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Though I appreciate CPM2 looking for a job to do in this game. No one has complained about the proliferation of Officer weapons, as far as I'm concerned. The reason we have a proliferation, is not simply because of the war barge, nor is it a problem. The main reason is because you can purchase them as a player to player transaction. In the first week of open player trading I was able to purchase 600+ calas smg's. And I've probably gotten 3 out of my war barge. I think it's silly to even talk about this issue and pretend its a problem. So to answer your questions: 1. I feel the proliferation is a natural outcome to the player trading market opening up. 2. Passive generation of these weapons is awesome. 3. Changes are unnecessary. Not in the priorities list IMO. Let's say matchmaking is probably a lot higher than this. CEO / Art.of.Death
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 06:15:00 - [50] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: As a side note, I would like to make an additional comment. Please note that this is my own opinion and does not reflect the whole of the CPM. I dislike the notion of removal/reduction of Officer weaponry without looking at Experimental weapons as well. I personally feel that making changes to the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry but leaving the second most powerful weaponry open and available still would just be resolving one problem and starting another. In my opinion, players should not be able to freely access the most powerful gear just by logging in and pressing a few buttons. It is unfair to new and old players alike that because someone simply has an upgraded warbarge that they are getting the most powerful weaponry in the game just for logging in. That counts for both Officer and Experimental weaponry. imo it's not a problem at all. you die, you lose it, you don't really see it in pubs at all either Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!

Sardonk Eternia Tiny Universe 376	Posted - 2015.10.18 06:31:00 - [51] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: This is something the CPM has been discussing since before Hotfix FoxFour, as indicated by CPM Breakin Stuff's "CPM Show 'n Tell" thread. One of the main issues that we seem to have an overall consensus on is that officer weaponry is far too prolific. Passive Generation of Officer Weaponry through the warbarge is perhaps too powerful and easy. Once properly set up a player only needs to log in to obtain the most powerful weaponry in the game. The reduction or removal of officer weapon output through the warbarge to result in a higher experimental weapon output is perhaps a quick solution but there is some concern that we'd only be replacing passive generation of one powerful type of weapon with another. If the issue is the passive generation of powerful weaponry, then the removal of one or the other (passive generation or powerful weaponry) may be necessary. However, on the other side of the coin, many players invested a great deal of time, effort, and in many cases real life funding in order to upgrade their warbarge to a point where these elite weapons could be obtained. If we change that aspect of the warbarge we essentially devalue those investments. There are concerns that we'd essentially be pulling a bait and switch by changing these aspects of the warbarge. If there is one thing the CPM feels very strongly about, it is the time and investment of players. This leaves us at a stalemate. We'd like to bring the discussion to the Dust 514 community and ask your opinions regarding this matter. How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Though I appreciate CPM2 looking for a job to do in this game. No one has complained about the proliferation of Officer weapons, as far as I'm concerned. The reason we have a proliferation, is not simply because of the war barge, nor is it a problem. The main reason is because you can purchase them as a player to player transaction. In the first week of open player trading I was able to purchase 600+ calas smg's. And I've probably gotten 3 out of my war barge. I think it's silly to even talk about this issue and pretend its a problem. So to answer your questions: 1. I feel the proliferation is a natural outcome to the player trading market opening up. 2. Passive generation of these weapons is awesome. 3. Changes are unnecessary. Not in the priorities list IMO. Let's say matchmaking is probably a lot higher than this. Well said (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Hawkings Greenback Dead Man's Game 408	Posted - 2015.10.18 08:37:00 - [52] - Quote How about adding equipment to the lab ? This will hopefully reduce the number of weapons being output from the lab & give other options for fitting & trading for logis and support players. "Forum Lurker" since 2012
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 09:44:00 - [53] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: How about adding equipment to the lab ? This will hopefully reduce the number of weapons being output from the lab & give other options for fitting & trading for logis and support players. how about exp mods, & exp equipment, but increase the amount produced, say 3x or more? Closed beta vet. ~~~!_~@-------THE~!!!)__SUN~!@(J)~((@RISES.~)(@#~!(~)~))(#~))()))))))__!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 4	Posted - 2015.10.18 10:17:00 - [54] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: How do you feel about the proliferation of officer weaponry? How do you feel about passive generation of those weapons? How do you feel about changes and how they'd affect the investments of players? Imo most of the officer weapons used right now have been acquired through market exchange, only a minor part come from the warbarge, i have a great stock which i don't use (even if i can), but other players with numbers like mine can inject a lot of officer gear in the market, delivering that to people who use it. I don't see a great problem in officer weaponry proliferation, by using officer in pub you automatically put a bounty on your head. As long as it take 198 components to claim a single item, i don't see a problem, at lvl 1 (EL) you need 400 components per day (lvl.3 MF) to be sustainable, for the level 2 (EL) you need 600 components (lvl.5 MF) This also mean that after claiming them at lvl 1 and 2 you have respectively: 4 components (lvl.3 MF) and 6 components (lvl.5 MF), slowing down your upgrading process. The only thing i would do, if you feel that EL is producing too much officer gear, is to lower the % of officer gear produced. But players need to have something in exchange, like a reduction of components cost for claim the from the EL or even better a increase in MF component production (you need 51k for lvl.5 and 100k for lvl.6, multiply this for every warbarge module and start crying) Regressed to blueberry level.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 11:51:00 - [55] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Some Ideas (mostly stolen): * Reset warbarges & refund 100% of barge components * Subsystem 1 - Mobile Factory: No Change * Subsystem 2 - Market Network: Increase ISK pay EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 3 - Augmented Munitions: Increase max carry capacity (3% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 4 - Neural Statistics: Increase SP yields EOM (5% per level, max level 10) * Subsystem 5 - Experimental Lab: Outputs Experimental Gear and the occasional Booster * Disallow Officer Gear in Public Contracts (restricts use to FW and PC) * Increase NPC market buyback price of Officer Gear (encourages removal from circulation) What is the problem with officer gear? I just don't get it. Right now it's hard to find a Bons for less than 500k. A Rattati suit is going for 1.5 mil ISK. If a dude is willing to lose things like that in a pub is that not the ISK sink people have been wanting to see? I don't care what anybody says, gear is not the issue that's harming public matches. We've seen public matches declining in quality for as long as I can remember. There's a problem with participation in public matches. There's no incentive to win so most people give it a shot for a few pushes and then go hide. I'd 100% support removing the ability to run officer in pubs, but it will not change anything in regards to quality of matches. Just as meta-locking or removing proto wouldn't. We could have full tiercide and it wouldn't change anything for players who don't participate. Just so we're all clear, that is not an ISK sink. An ISK sink is something that takes ISK -OUT- of the economy, not redistributes it. A player purchasing an officer weapon or suit from another player is only redistributing that ISK but it is still in someone's wallet at the end of the day. The only ISK sink we have at the moment is the NPC market and it is not enough to counter the amount of ISK currently in the inflated player economy. Which is honestly part of the problem, really. Players with more ISK than they'll ever spend (from PC farming, BPOs, etc) can afford to buy officer gear in bulk and basically run it whenever, hence it's proliferation in pubs and such. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:03:00 - [56] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:04:00 - [57] - Quote lol warbarge. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 161	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:25:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. I really really agree with what you're saying, but: TBH it's already too late. Even if you stopped new officer gear coming into the game from all sources, they're still going to be a problem for months to come. Look at the quantities available on the Player Trading sub, then imagine how many people have more in their assets but aren't bothered to sell them. Restricting where they come from won't have it's effects felt for ages, so it's going to be a crazy hard thing to get any feedback on in-game and in turn balance properly. Are you aiming to have them not be a viable option in certain game-modes? Pubs? FW? Anything is a viable option when you've got enough ISK, and there's plenty of players that do. At this point trying to balance the prevalence of an item in Dust through rarity is probably not going to work. You're still going to see those items in at least the top end of the battle in all game-modes. Unless, of course, you lock them out. Something is killing new player retention.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:44:00 - [59] - Quote Perhaps if/when we see the other subsystems or if more work is done on subsystems then perhaps the experimental lab could just spit out EXP weapons, then the focused lab could allow you to but X amount of EXP weapons in to exchange them for an officer variants so every 2-3 EXP weapons you'd get 1 x Officer or if basic crafting you could use the refining lab and get Officer grade nanites which you put in focused lab with EXP grade nanites and out pop X amount of Officer weapons so we can still get a reasonable amount of officer weapons with some work invested but you have to lose some EXP wepaons in order to get them, so its a case of do you want a regualr flow of EXP weapons to use or trade them in for a smaller supply of Officer in return. Another thing could be restricting trading on Officer weapons. that way people can't farm labs and pool them all onto their main. they'd only have the small few they get from lab on their own account whereas EXP could still be traded. alternativly trading based on Loyalty rank and meta level, the higher the loyalty rank the higher the metal level upto Loyalty 5 being meta 10 (officer) Lv0 - no trading Lv1 - Meta 1-2 Lv2 - Meta 3-4 Lv3 - Meta 5-6 Lv4 - Meta 7-8 Lv5 - Meta 9-10 this would allow players to trade their old stuff as their characters grow, selling STD gear to newer players to fund ADV gear, then sellign their ADV gear to fund their new proto gear ect. Those of us who have played for a while wouldn't be affected by it on our mains, but any alt accounts created to farm labs will be restricted Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:29:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'd be ok with the labs only producing experimental gear only and leave the officer gear to strong boxes and salvage. Honestly, I thought that's how it was going to be from the start. IIRC, that's how it was initially designed. We (myself included) complained about the Lab being lackluster, so Rattati dialed up the Officer drop rates. Which seems kind of strange that this was the area they choose to listen to QQ. The DK Market could have driven so much active content. I'm willing to discuss ways to change the way we get the officer weapons, but they are fun and fun is needed in Dust and I think taking it away removes content (trading) that is a big part of keeping people around. It seems strange to you that it would later become a problem that players would advocate the passive generation of the most powerful weaponry in the game, completely free of cost once invested in, permanently..? The only thing this "feature" served to do, imo, was entitle the aristocratic players with a free source of powerful gear that they could buy and trade amongst themselves. Given how crazy expensive it is to even -get- the experimental lab, it certainly isn't helping any new players and I'd be hard pressed to believe it's even attainable in any near future for a player that does not spend Aurum on components. For those that do, it basically just funnels out free ISK for the gear you don't use and offers a disproportionate amount of power with the gear you do use. Yet there are tons of players who've never sniffed a PC who spend hours each day trading officer gear. Why not ask for a show of hands who claims laboratory items each day and also ask for their PC experience? You guys with your misery/grind for decades mentality have been proven wrong. You'd know that if you actually played instead of just typing about Dust. Theories are great and all... "Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing." -Captain Obvious



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