There's more to technology than just weapons.

The reason for their lack of colonization wasn't because they were afraid or because they didn't have the technology for it, it's because there was little incentive for it. Matar is a natural paradise, even more so before the invasion. Not much reason to go far when you can get everything you need nearby. (The early Amarr empire nearly broke apart from over population and a stagnant economy.)

The success of the Amarrian invasion is due the fact that the Minmatar had been at peace for centuries, and was unaware of any other advanced race. (The Gallente and Caldari made contact early on, and the Amarrians made contact with the Udorians early as well. The Minmatar however were alone within their region.) Thus little reason to improve weapons or build defenses. The Amarr also had waited to invade just as the largest storm on the planet happened.

Now these facts shouldn't detract from the technology the Minmatar did have. The fact that the most numerous race managed to live prosperously on such little land and was capable of production of pretty advanced technology without international trade is pretty amazing. Whatever it is they were doing, it was clearly super efficient and beyond what every other race was doing.

"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere."
I will say however, the fact that this line is never gone into any more detail is infuriating to me, because there is such ambiguity involved. One of the most important things to make note of though is that the Minmatar empire was flourishing. Meaning any Amarrian justification for the invasion involving uplifting the Minmatar or saving them from squalor is a total lie.

The planet of Pator had many tribal wars as evedent in the Elder lore saying they had been peaceful is false when they only united as one to combat the Amarr.

I have a little problem. From what I've been reading, I do think I support the Caldari, but I also support the Minmatar. Is there any way I can justify this lore-wise?

Pator is the system. Not the planet. The planet is Matar.
"However, having known no large-scale warfare for centuries"

I've not seen a date on when the tribal wars happened so I'm not sure how long they were between the invasion, but I'm fairly certain I read Matar was at peace for 600 years before the Amarrian invasion. I'll look more into finding a source for that later.

well the minmatar and caldari are neutral towards each other i dont see why some caldari here and there wouldnt support minmatar

The thing that worries me is the alliance between the Amarr and the Caldari. Just how formal and strong is this 'alliance'?

The thing that worries me is the alliance between the Amarr and the Caldari. Just how formal and strong is this 'alliance'?

In the end there is no point basing your choice of faction based on real world notions of what is right and wrong. It stops mattering in New Eden when you realise that no faction is just, moral, and ethical in practice.

The Amarr want to unite humanity but practice a rigid social hierarchy and slavery to achieve those means. Is this right? Culturally yes. Moral? Hell no. Ethical? Yes.

The Gallente envision a free cluster where all live well but their society is ruled by the self serving who care little for the liberties of others. Is this right? Yes. It is Moral? Yes. Is it ethical? Hell no.

The Caldari wish to thrive and prosper in their own way without intervention by outside forces. Yet this makes them interventionist and their society is xenophobic and close. It this right? Yes. Moral? Maybe. Ethical? Maybe.

The Minmatar are a burgeoning people living in a post war empire reassembling their cultural identity while being galvanised to violence and unending bloodshed by Elders who claim to have their best interests at heart. Is it right? Yes. Moral. Gods no. Ethical. Sure.

The olny Caldari megacorp that's good in my book is Ishukone.

The state has never been xenophobic , the state has always accepted non Caldari into the State as long as you are willing to abide by the rules. As I have previously mentioned to be Caldari is not a racial aspect to be Caldari is to be a member of the state to be a citizen, alongside the three dominant races that founded the nation being the Deteis, Civire and the Achura you also have other bloodlines. The state is nationalist not xenophobic and this is because of the long term conflict that has been endured making us extremely defensive. A citizen identifies firstly as Caldari as a way of life, secondly the loyalty to their corporation and if mentioned at all then the origin of the ethnicity but this is irrelevant to a Caldari other than in cases of traditionalism when marrying with the three main ethnicities rarely intermarrying due to the differences in temperament and partly due to the conduct in which Caldari are paired regarding corporate controlled marriage to only suitable partners based on rank and status and a myriad factors including personality compatibility and matching appearance but within the State no matter ethnicity once a citizen of the state you are identified as racially Caldari.

I personally hate Ishukone, only because they created the Ishukone ARR, which is part of the "FoTM chasing k/d padded explosive chucking 'veteran' " pack.

I have a couple questions.

@Kirk - Why do the Gallente and Caldari continue to fight? From what I understand from what you wrote, the Caldari wanted independence from the Federation. Do the Gallente still not want the Caldari to be independent?

@True - Did the Amarr not try to enslave the Gallente and Caldari as well? If not, what made them different from the Minmatar? And why did the Amarr start by trying to enslave the Jovians?

The State is incredibly xenophobic when it comes to the preservation of their blood lines and culture. Especially in some of the more traditional Megacorporations like Sukuveesta, CBD, and Nugoeihuvi...and lets not forget the Waschi Uprising......

The Caldari do fit the term xenophobic as they generally do have a mistrust for those from other cultures. It's not a hostile xenophobia it's just a general cultural facet that they dislike being influenced by outside sources and rather prefer their own ways to others.

I have a little problem. From what I've been reading, I do think I support the Caldari, but I also support the Minmatar. Is there any way I can justify this lore-wise?

I'm in the same boat as you.

I know the caldari always try to open up deals with the minmatar, but I don't know what the minmatar do for the caldari, if anything.

There is no mistrust for other cultures only hatred towards the federation predominantly thanks to events that transpired on a whole to label the entirety of the state as Xenophobic is absurd when the defense of the Intaki by the state was the highest priority and the Intaki and Caldari have been long allies with the main example being that of Mordu's Legion that fought alongside the Caldari State. The perpetrators of the Waschi Uprising were disbanded and punished and the alliance between the Intaki and the Caldari exists today. You cannot use extremist and isolated events and groups as a basis to label an entire nation as xenophobic.

The CBD Corporation is one of the biggest exporters/importers in Caldari space in which being xenophobic and mistrusting of other cultures is not practical. They are not traditional by any means in which they go against on many occasions the codes and conduct of the state and what it is to be Caldari the three you mention belong to the practical political bloc and have all three ties to organised crime and the underworld of New Eden in which they deal in unethical business tactics. But I have to make this clear once again their is no emphasis on the blood lines, ethnicity is not and never has been a relevant factor to any Caldari and the dislike to being influenced by outside forces is shared by all factions neither would be willing to capitulate nor does the State impose their way of life on the other factions they only wish to exist freely and independent. As xenophobia goes hand in hand with racism and the preservation of culture is merely the way of life that we have within the state not a racial agenda the state exists of numerous ethnicities and races and are in fact innately non xenophobic as we all identify as racially Caldari no matter of ethnicity. So the only mistrust you can refer too is that towards the federation which is justified with the ongoing conflict are their wish to undermine the state and cease its existence.

There is mistrust and abuse of other cultures - if you're not caldari... we don't care about you (unless you're willing to become a client-state). There is also heavy emphasis on bloodlines despite the caldari identifying as a single race, as marriage is largely corporately controlled.

Interestingly biased viewpoints.....

I don't think Nouvelle Rouvenor, Heuromont, Waschi, and the recent Provist regime led by a suspected Templis Dragonaur are isolated examples.

That being said in having read about the Caldari a bit more it's clear there is an 'Us and Them' feel to the way they interpret nations/culture.

You have quite the positive view of the Caldari don't you?

Predominantly all of these actions were carried out by the same group the Templis Dragonaurs led today by Tibus Heth who is a radical, the majority of the State do not share those views. To label them as anything but isolated would be incorrect as they are isolated in regards to the State as they are not common practice or shared agenda and the patriot bloc of the State is against the Tibus Heth regime which is seen as overly extreme and ultranationalist. Though it pales in comparison to the atrocities committed by the Ultranationalist fascist party of the Gallente that are responsible for acts of terror during the attack on Caldari Prime which billions of lives of both Caldari and Gallente citizens as well as the other races who were on Caldari Prime at the time were slaughtered in a xenophobic attack. To label one as xenophobic and the other not is absurd.

And yet for all that talk about 'One People'........

One people refers to unity a united people of a united nation not one race one ethnicity one being the Caldari State one being the Gallente federation

Cool let me know what you find!

The weak points of the races are as follows:

Amarr: Sheer arrogance
minmatar: So angry culturally they can barely tell friend from foe.
Gallente: Mob rules here. Not reason in most cases.
Caldari: Refusal to change in any way for any reason.