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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
92
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Posted - 2015.05.29 17:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swarms have been a problem for ADS, DS, HAV, LAV, and HAV users for the longest time now. The problem is they have too much tracking distance, no user error, lock on distance, and too much rapid fire. I think CCP knows this but are too afraid to nerf it because tanks might be like Chromosome.
I thought swarms were meant to deter vehicles. Right now swarms are more used as a mass destruction weapon. One option would to decrease the lock on range to 100M and the following 150M. This would act as more of a deterrent rather than a supercharged mass driver.
Another option would be to decrease the fire speed and lock on. Make lockon 5 seconds and reload four seconds. The transition between each shot would be more than five seconds because the lock on is 5 seconds. Possibly a damage boost.
The last option would to add in a user error. Like a overheat, or make the lock on icon smaller. Like a dot that blends into everything like us tankers get. Then go from there and see how swarms preform. I would rather see forge guns out on the field.
Another tip for any AV`ers. Instead of excessive spam of swarms. Use the overpowered Lai Die AV grenade, and a plasma cannon. Trust me it does wonders.
Hope this helped a little, thanks for reading 07
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.29 19:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Are you implying that AV players should learn to aim, instead of having their WP arrive by Fed-Ex Air?
Blasphemy
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 19:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
yes the weapon should take more skill. My 1.2 million dollar tank should not be taken out by a hail of swarms.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for looking at this 07
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
As somebody who foolishly invested millions into AV weapons, I am sick of having to lock-on.
Lemme fire the damn thing when I want, at the target I want. Too many times have my attempts at an HAV suppository been thwarted due to annoying lock-on and fire mechanics. Yes. What I want requires swarms to be re-imagined. [Edit for clarification: What I want is more akin to a Caldary RPG launcher with multiple rockets fired at once, with damage balanced for AV and whatever fool aims it at infantry.]
Better for me.
Better for pilots.
Better for fun.
CCP... make like Nike and "Just Do It."
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Swarms have been a problem for ADS, DS, HAV, LAV, and HAV users for the longest time now. The problem is they have too much tracking distance, no user error, lock on distance, and too much rapid fire. I think CCP knows this but are too afraid to nerf it because tanks might be like Chromosome.
I thought swarms were meant to deter vehicles. Right now swarms are more used as a mass destruction weapon. One option would to decrease the lock on range to 100M and the following 150M. This would act as more of a deterrent rather than a supercharged mass driver.
Another option would be to decrease the fire speed and lock on. Make lockon 5 seconds and reload four seconds. The transition between each shot would be more than five seconds because the lock on is 5 seconds. Possibly a damage boost.
The last option would to add in a user error. Like a overheat, or make the lock on icon smaller. Like a dot that blends into everything like us tankers get. Then go from there and see how swarms preform. I would rather see forge guns out on the field.
Another tip for any AV`ers. Instead of excessive spam of swarms. Use the overpowered Lai Die AV grenade, and a plasma cannon. Trust me it does wonders.
Hope this helped a little, thanks for reading 07
OR we could just make it a laser sight, fires when you press the trigger and tracks the users aim (similar to S-RAW in battlefield 4), as for rapid fire, it'll only fire the next volley when ALL 4 missiles (and a 0.45 seconds to arm next volley) have either been destroyed (small blasters have a habit of destroying missiles) or have hit a target (be it a wall or something or other), with this a MAJOR DPS increase would be due and missile speed would have to go down due to the excessive speed (can't turn a missile if it's already got poor turning speed due to velocity). Would this benefit your god tiering vehicles?
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is it doesn't fix anything. There still is not user error in it
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
534
|
Posted - 2015.05.29 23:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, AKA the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
534
|
Posted - 2015.05.29 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
So you're saying that spending 1.2 million ISK justifies taking 2 players away from the enemy team and they're still not allowed to kill you?
Is Spkr your main?
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, AKA the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
2
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
completly agree with this, swarm are way too OP actually
- high firing rate
- hit REALLY hard
-locking range
etc etc etc definitly something need to be done |
HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
96
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible So you're saying that spending 1.2 million ISK justifies taking 2 players away from the enemy team and they're still not allowed to kill you? Is Spkr your main?
UHH.. my GV.0 should not take only 2 swarmer to take out. It should take an organized squad or group of 2 AVers. NOT just 2 lazy potato eating bitches.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
540
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:UHH.. my GV.0 should not take only 2 swarmer to take out. It should take an organized squad or group of 2 AVers. NOT just 2 lazy potato eating bitches.
Agreed, something as valuable as a Gv.0 shold not be taken down easily by lower tier AV.
But the problem with requiring more than one person to keep you busy is that it takes away people who should be capturing and defending points away and instead are chasing a tank, contributing nothing to the game as the tank refuses to die or recall. Does that make sense? It's bad for balance.
And as a swarm user I do think swarms have far too much DPS for the lack of skill required. It should be something weak but constant, I'm thinking less damage and larger clip size.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, also known as the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
What is the point here?
CCP likes AV. They love having toons losing expensive gear. And to only pick up 50WP if they kill the guy doing the deed. If the ganker spends the minimal amount the lulz is heightened. CCP loves that stuff. New Eden is based on it.
Ganking, it's a thang, a New Eden thang. 
Three Lai Dai AV (that hit) will pop nearly everything. A Wyrm Swarmer will do a fast job so run or die, the Aldin FG can two shots many (with a two second charge), Jihad Jeeps, packed RE stuck to the vehicle. All these variations only mean one thing. This much too logical discussion is just verbal wack-a-mole.
Regardless of what you come up with, CCP will trump it with PRO, Proficiency III or Officer weapons thus negating all your plans.
All the suggestions in the world will not circumvent CCP's plan.
Their plan is to burn vehicles, leaving drivers raging, AV crowing and ISK drained.
Welcome to New Eden. 
Read my signature.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh hi, I'm here with popcorn to watch the pilot circlejerk.
That and giggle while you all run around in circles missing the point of what the problems with swarms actually are.
Or willfully ignoring them.
But by all means, continue
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
Right?! I mean, I can also get behind better balance as is, but more use of vehicles should be encouraged - I enjoy destroying vehicles with my RailBus, but it costs 350k+ a pop and can go down in a second. If things died more and cost less it'd be more enjoyable for everyone.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
*Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game...
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary
7
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like the idea of slowing down the volley rate- the range can't be nerfed too much as they're caldari, and need range.
LAVs actually survive pretty well against swarms: Unless they're in a flat, open area, they're small and fast enough that most missiles hit odd objects or hills before reaching the LAV.
Aloha snackbar
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.30 01:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like the idea of slowing down the volley rate- the range can't be nerfed too much as they're caldari, and need range.
LAVs actually survive pretty well against swarms: Unless they're in a flat, open area, they're small and fast enough that most missiles hit odd objects or hills before reaching the LAV.
Wouldn't need range (theorectically speaking) if they work as guided missiles, afterwards base their stats off of the breach mass driver but with a smaller splash radius across the board (2.20, as each missile will be in vicinity of the intended target), and there you got yourselves a new swarm launcher that takes "SKILL" (you whiny little scrub buckets).
RANT: If you have complaints about being killed by swarm's, how does a logi feel when they have their rep tools out and cant fire back? You think you should have ALL the abillity to bash someone into the ground just because your better than them, because your inside a god machine. Well let me ask you this - How many times has video games made you kill a god? Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy, Destiny, (probably tons but I can't remember em), suck it up, buy more of it, and try to kill it back... If that doesn't work, give up playing as vehicles and start logi-ing people, (everybody makes mistakes, own up to it instead of coming here to complain).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.30 02:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot.
If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one.
Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pretty much inapplicable analogies completely and totally missing the point.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 04:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucky for you, I have the answer here!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203814&find=unread
!--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
97
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Posted - 2015.05.30 05:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible *Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game...
Not more survivable, just two swarmers should not ever take down a GV.0 of that tier. Plus its a tank, it relates nothing to dropsuits. You have to have a new "mind" in looking at vehicles.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 10:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible *Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game... Not more survivable, just two swarmers should not ever take down a GV.0 of that tier. Plus its a tank, it relates nothing to dropsuits. You have to have a new "mind" in looking at vehicles.
i completly agree with you !!!
today its WAY too easy to take down a tank !!
exemple : GOT KILLED BY A KNIFE !!!! any logic in this for you ? by a knife !!
in every game that involve tank, when your by walk and come in front off him, you run for your life,
in dust when your by walk and come in front off a tank, you rush to it, shouting "JUICY KILL COME TO MAMA" ... |
Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
548
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot. If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one. Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****.
I see you're one for slippery slopes. Those are counter-productive.
If you don't like my idea, don't be obnoxious about it please.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, also known as the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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bastille123
20
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
its useless...... this comunity is to biased in medium/light suits to actually ever implement what it truly means HEAVY in general...
whenever i talk to anybody about swarms being too powerful for being an light weapon against heavy vehicules in general is just get mocked at that i want invinceble tanks....
or when i complain about why does 80 FREAKING GJ railguns has no splash damage compared to light weponry like PLC or why a gal centinel is able to survie a direct shot of particle cannons they say to me that is perfectly fine
or when i use a forgegun i know that compared to plasma cannons (that for some reason has better splash and damage per shot DESPITE being an light weapon)
And if you still think that the people in this game doesnt hate heavy assets(sentinels/HAVs) let me remind you that:
1: HMG has no viable operation (it used to have one)
2: Useless standart forgeguns (no splash/less damage/more charge time) and dont tell me the ``use the assult one-¦-¦ there just have to be some advantages that the assult variant doenst have otherwise just remove the normal one.
3: tanks in general has no bonuses whatsoever and even so, they incresed the sp requirements for them (thanks for the 1M sp steal!)
4: I dont have to say much about how crap the large missile turrets are compared to what they used to be (and its funny that with the whole; ``we will make turrets a lot more powerful at the expense of an ammo sistem-¦-¦, we have even worse large missile lauchers than ever before)
but meh whatever the heck this just my opinion tho
no matter how good an online game may be. if the comunity is crap the game is crap
-ghost from closed beta-
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot. If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one. Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****. I see you're one for slippery slopes. Those are counter-productive. If you don't like my idea, don't be obnoxious about it please.
How is it a slippery slope?
You want it to be a 1 vs 1 equation, right?
So, I'm helping your suggestion. If you don't even everything out, then it can never be a 1 vs 1 equation. So, to add to my "obnoxious" post, you also have to remove the vehicle cap.
Pythons. Pythons everywhere.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Pretty much inapplicable analogies completely and totally missing the point.
Reason behind swarm launchers not getting touched is because half these people aren't competent enough to actually pick one up against vehicles, if the blues were more intelligent and decided to run av and smg fits THEN you'd see a nerf, and the whole point of the rant is that despite his complaint he would've ended up like the assault dropship with the tanks, you know what rattati did, it would've been a carbon copy and tanks would be FAR worst than they would have been any other patch.
"Being tooth and nail about it" as rattati said is why the ADS was nerfed so hard.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
100
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
bump
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Jax Saurian
GunFall Mobilization
251
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:As somebody who foolishly invested millions into AV weapons, I am sick of having to lock-on.
Lemme fire the damn thing when I want, at the target I want. Too many times have my attempts at an HAV suppository been thwarted due to annoying lock-on and fire mechanics. Yes. What I want requires swarms to be re-imagined. [Edit for clarification: What I want is more akin to a Caldary RPG launcher with multiple rockets fired at once, with damage balanced for AV and whatever fool aims it at infantry.]
Better for me.
Better for pilots.
Better for fun.
CCP... make like Nike and "Just Do It."
Dumb fire swarms?
(closed beta flashbacks)
NO! NEVER AGAIN! NEVER AGAIN!
(curl up into a ball) (cry uncontrollably)
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
bastille123 wrote:its useless...... this comunity is to biased in medium/light suits to actually ever implement what it truly means HEAVY in general...
whenever i talk to anybody about swarms being too powerful for being an light weapon against heavy vehicules in general is just get mocked at that i want invinceble tanks....
or when i complain about why does 80 FREAKING GJ railguns has no splash damage compared to light weponry like PLC or why a gal centinel is able to survie a direct shot of particle cannons they say to me that is perfectly fine
or when i use a forgegun i know that compared to plasma cannons (that for some reason has better splash and damage per shot DESPITE being an light weapon)
And if you still think that the people in this game doesnt hate heavy assets(sentinels/HAVs) let me remind you that:
1: HMG has no viable operation (it used to have one)
2: Useless standart forgeguns (no splash/less damage/more charge time) and dont tell me the ``use the assult one-¦-¦ there just have to be some advantages that the assult variant doenst have otherwise just remove the normal one.
3: tanks in general has no bonuses whatsoever and even so, they incresed the sp requirements for them (thanks for the 1M sp steal!)
4: I dont have to say much about how crap the large missile turrets are compared to what they used to be (and its funny that with the whole; ``we will make turrets a lot more powerful at the expense of an ammo sistem-¦-¦, we have even worse large missile lauchers than ever before)
but meh whatever the heck this just my opinion tho
its amazing everywhere people keep saying the same things (and i agree with it) over and over 'swarm OP, tank too squishy, useless, but why CCP doesnt make a REAL balance on this ? the game is out for 2 years now right ? why ??
should be obvious by now that players WANT better tank ! |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
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Posted - 2015.05.30 19:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:bastille123 wrote:its useless...... this comunity is to biased in medium/light suits to actually ever implement what it truly means HEAVY in general...
whenever i talk to anybody about swarms being too powerful for being an light weapon against heavy vehicules in general is just get mocked at that i want invinceble tanks....
or when i complain about why does 80 FREAKING GJ railguns has no splash damage compared to light weponry like PLC or why a gal centinel is able to survie a direct shot of particle cannons they say to me that is perfectly fine
or when i use a forgegun i know that compared to plasma cannons (that for some reason has better splash and damage per shot DESPITE being an light weapon)
And if you still think that the people in this game doesnt hate heavy assets(sentinels/HAVs) let me remind you that:
1: HMG has no viable operation (it used to have one)
2: Useless standart forgeguns (no splash/less damage/more charge time) and dont tell me the ``use the assult one-¦-¦ there just have to be some advantages that the assult variant doenst have otherwise just remove the normal one.
3: tanks in general has no bonuses whatsoever and even so, they incresed the sp requirements for them (thanks for the 1M sp steal!)
4: I dont have to say much about how crap the large missile turrets are compared to what they used to be (and its funny that with the whole; ``we will make turrets a lot more powerful at the expense of an ammo sistem-¦-¦, we have even worse large missile lauchers than ever before)
but meh whatever the heck this just my opinion tho
its amazing everywhere people keep saying the same things (and i agree with it) over and over 'swarm OP, tank too squishy, useless, but why CCP doesnt make a REAL balance on this ? the game is out for 2 years now right ? why ?? should be obvious by now that players WANT better tank !
No blue berry logically busts out AV, despite what it looks like, too few are actually skilled into it (in favor of the PLC and FG), and armor hardeners doing 30% dmg redux on a GV.0 makes the tanks god tier unless an aldins starts wacking em.
Summary:Lack of Community Logic, few players skilled into them, and hardener OPness...
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.05.30 19:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
You forgot no clear understanding of how AV interacts with vehicles in the first place.
There is only so much wisdom to be gained via the quafe forge gun
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
100
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Posted - 2015.05.30 19:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
We need hardeners or we would all be dead. If they dont buff or do something to tanks im not running them for a while.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
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Posted - 2015.05.30 19:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:We need hardeners or we would all be dead. If they dont buff or do something to tanks im not running them for a while.
So 8 guys should switch AV to kill you? Tank's are fine it's hard to hit when its around corners (a tactic NOBODY USES) you can speed in and out of an area almost as fast as a jeep, you can kill AV before they get a good chance to fire another set of swarms AND HEY, NEWS FLASH, how about you stop trying to be Zod and actually rely on your allies to cover you, AS INTENDED.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
3
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Posted - 2015.05.31 03:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote: how about you stop trying to be Zod and actually rely on your allies to cover you, AS INTENDED.
im using tank in almost every game (almost) and in 9/10 your allies DONT CARE about you
(i cant blame them, we are useless ...)
i mean why would they "help, save us" ?
1 : we cant cap
2 : if another tank show up, they can take care by themselve
3 : we dont offer any buff too infantry
4 : and if we try to be a wall to protect them from incoming fire, be sure a swarm will be there to tke care of us (back to 2)
to be back to your point "rely on your allies", i will add
INFANTRY SHOULD TRY TO TAKE CARE OF US !!
(how many time, i was being shot, with a infantry next to me, just running away doing hes life, and me losing my tank just because he dont wanted (cared) helping a bit !
PS: did you know that the logistic thingy, can rep us (the tank) ? did you knew about that ?
well not many know about that, because logi never came to our aid ... |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.05.31 04:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote: how about you stop trying to be Zod and actually rely on your allies to cover you, AS INTENDED. im using tank in almost every game (almost) and in 9/10 your allies DONT CARE about you (i cant blame them, we are useless ...) i mean why would they "help, save us" ? 1 : we cant cap 2 : if another tank show up, they can take care by themselve 3 : we dont offer any buff too infantry 4 : and if we try to be a wall to protect them from incoming fire, be sure a swarm will be there to tke care of us (back to 2) to be back to your point "rely on your allies", i will add INFANTRY SHOULD TRY TO TAKE CARE OF US !! (how many time, i was being shot, with a infantry next to me, just running away doing hes life, and me losing my tank just because he dont wanted (cared) helping a bit ! PS: did you know that the logistic thingy, can rep us (the tank) ? did you knew about that ? well not many know about that, because logi never came to our aid ...
So, swarm's should get a nerf because of EVERYONE'S incompetence? Yes there are rep tools that can fix a tank, honestly I thought about taking one out myself, but since I don't have min logi I personally felt redundant and pointless to use one, On another matter, you never asked ANYONE to rep you, most tankers don't bother asking for help because they feel they're above the infantry, but infantry constantly proves you wrong, you want tanks to be strong, take hits? Ask a logi from your corp., otherwise, stop trying nerf something that requires more than 1 person to do, unless you yourself are stuck in an area you shouldn't be in, or trying to become more powerful because you feel underwhelmed, sniper's can't help hack, be more helpful to the team cause of the fact that suits are so squishy without proper tanking, why should you?
Give me 10 FULLY understandable reasons, reasons that I or many others may agree upon with you (not I cause I might just not agree with you period unless you've got something that's fair, also the individuals that agree with you, must not be tankers themselves, people you asked to comment or those from your corp., they must be infantry, also duely not that even if you do write something down, given the fair point's I made above a buff or nerf may never come, but then again, that's why we brainstorm).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
3
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Posted - 2015.05.31 04:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:
So, swarm's should get a nerf because of EVERYONE'S incompetence?
nice to see that you said "everyone", because yes EVERYONE is against the actual SWARM mechanics
im a solo player so ... |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.05.31 04:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:
So, swarm's should get a nerf because of EVERYONE'S incompetence?
nice to see that you said "everyone", because yes EVERYONE is against the actual SWARM mechanics im a solo player so ...
Game's not for solo play, requires a squad, requires you to know what you want and want to do, you play, ask, and get it done, this is DUST 514 not TANKYSIT 514, explore the possibilities, be smart, fight smart. (And when I said everyone, I meant anyone not intelligent enough to understand that nobody can do thing's alone, as stated above).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
3
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Posted - 2015.05.31 04:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
was editing when you answeared,
and stating that a FREE TO PLAY GAME !!!!!!
have to be played ABSOLUTLY with a corporation a things ITS WRONG !!!!
BF dont need to play with friend or any "pre made squad"
same as planete side 2, just stating "your alone, that your problem" is just wrong
in this world there are many different people, and same with play style
if this game really tend to go that way, well i cant see any futur for it |
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
37
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Posted - 2015.05.31 05:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:was editing when you answeared,
and stating that a FREE TO PLAY GAME !!!!!!
have to be played ABSOLUTLY with a corporation a things ITS WRONG !!!!
BF dont need to play with friend or any "pre made squad"
same as planete side 2, just stating "your alone, that your problem" is just wrong
in this world there are many different people, and same with play style
if this game really tend to go that way, well i cant see any futur for it
Lol and now you explain why I still play BF, but that's not what CCP and devs intended and (off topic here) that's where shield's are( EDIT:refering to your "tank is ****" comment), (back on topic) Swarm Launcher's have inverted damage profile and do massive damage to shield's than armor, its only because of proficiency that armor takes any notable damage (not just damage mods), SL range in my opinion is just fine, drop ships and tanks can kill us faster than we can kill them, provided we don't ambush you first, and your not using a scanner (really annoying), sure the RoF is a bother, but the finnicky lock on system makes up for that (I can hardly spam it, so i'm not like most people), player skill works more based on positioning, angle, and knowing how to efficiently move (when you got a lock-on if your quick enough, move the lock to the right, release, look at target again, lock on, release, now you have 2 volleys within seconds of each other).
And honestly infantry are in the same boat, logi can't repair and shoot at the same time, sniper's can't look to their left or right when aiming, players cant fire back when hacking, so, yeah, and counter measure, armor hardener there you go.
One thing to remember, if SL's get nerfed, vehicles get nerfed too to properly allow SL's the kill, which means more FG one shots of closed beta (a possibility that would seem very likely, I can definantly see we haven't learned from the ADS pilots).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.05.31 05:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
The problem with swarms has always been that they are expected to be maneuverable enough to catch an ADS while strong enough to kill HAVs. This leads to an OP weapon, especially when its fire and forget. The solution is to split the swarm into anti-air and anri-armor, with one good at killing HAVs while being to slow/unmaneuverable to catch an ADS, while the other is faster and turns tighter but is weaker to compensate for ADS having less health.
Rattati has given no word on this beyond a trello card over 8 months ago, so if anyone can get him talking about it, do so.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.31 11:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Rattati has given no word on this beyond a trello card over 8 months ago, so if anyone can get him talking about it, do so.
The best way to do this is to start a thread complaining about how pilots are marginalised and ignored, then he will appear to deride the OP and we can jump on him to coerce some answers out of him! 
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
102
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Posted - 2015.05.31 14:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
bump
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Dova Vojak
Destinys Immortals
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm a tanker. I've tanked for over a year and a half now, but to hear someone complaining that swarms don't act as a deterrent weapon and especially to hear that your implying that your losing 1.2 million ISK tanks to swarms too regularly is ridiculous. If this is true than you're not an experienced tanker or at least not a very good one so maybe you should consider stopping tanking and find a better niche for you. Swarms are the best AV weapon for deterring vehicals. They do a decent amount of damage to scare a vehicals operater to retreat because if they don't they'll die. Weapons like Plasma Cannons and Forges are real vehicals killers. I've only ever been killed by swarms after being weathered down by other AV weapons. Honestly I think swarms are perfect where they are. The only truly dangerous swarms are duel proto swarms from a proto Minmitar Commando and even then they only have a good track record of killing Dropships not tanks.
"The end justifies the means"
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.31 22:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dova Vojak wrote:Weapons like Plasma Cannons and Forges are real vehicals killers.
Haaahahaha! Oh that's funny... I think we all needed that.
But really, no. Right now FGs are awful except against dumb shield tankers and maybe a mediocre pilot. PLCs only threaten bad shield tankers unless you're a Kubo-level PLC user. Armour HAVs are high invincible against almost anything; Shield HAVs are resilient but killable with fairly heavy investment; DSs are WP pi+¦atas for Swarms and FGs, but rarely killed if the pilot knows to flee immediately upon any kind of damage.
Swarms are the most accessible, most applicable weapons due to most effective damage application (fire and forget) and similar (generally superior) DPS to the other AV weapons. Speaking from an ADS point of view, Swarms are uncounterable unless they launch at you while you're 40m away and looking directly at them - you're forced to flee before you can localise and engage them.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood
RUST415
765
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Posted - 2015.05.31 22:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
They can nerf swarms when shield/armor cheateners and cowardice boosters are removed. As it is, 90% of the time HAVs and dropships are cycling multiple hardeners, then run away to the redline before half their shield is gone. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
43
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 22:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Dova Vojak wrote:Weapons like Plasma Cannons and Forges are real vehicals killers. Haaahahaha! Oh that's funny... I think we all needed that. But really, no. Right now FGs are awful except against dumb shield tankers and maybe a mediocre pilot. PLCs only threaten bad shield tankers unless you're a Kubo-level PLC user. Armour HAVs are high invincible against almost anything; Shield HAVs are resilient but killable with fairly heavy investment; DSs are WP pi+¦atas for Swarms and FGs, but rarely killed if the pilot knows to flee immediately upon any kind of damage. Swarms are the most accessible, most applicable weapons due to most effective damage application (fire and forget) and similar (generally superior) DPS to the other AV weapons. Speaking from an ADS point of view, Swarms are uncounterable unless they launch at you while you're 40m away and looking directly at them - you're forced to flee before you can localise and engage them.
My CEO has popped plenty of armor tank's (proto tank's require more than 1 person generally, which mean's team work which is why I think swarm's are fine), dropships aren't tanky by no mean's, if they were, they'd be like armor tank's and simply stay in 1 spot tanking swarm shots and then pull back when their at half armor, and more than likely after killing 3 of our boys or more.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.31 23:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:My CEO has popped plenty of armor tank's (proto tank's require more than 1 person generally, which mean's team work which is why I think swarm's are fine), dropships aren't tanky by no mean's, if they were, they'd be like armor tank's and simply stay in 1 spot tanking swarm shots and then pull back when their at half armor, and more than likely after killing 3 of our boys or more.
Popped armour HAVs with Swarms? Kinda emphasises the point doesn't it?
And DSs aren't tanky enough to do anything but flee once they get hit by Swarms - the point isn't that they can't tank damage, but that they have no other response. Flee or die; at least with a Forge/PLC you can evade and maybe fight back, but there's no evading Swarms, it's just take a bunch of damage while futilely trying to find them then drop dead - unless you fled immediately.
Edit: point being that it's not so much about the damage but about the application. HAVs aren't in a terrible place (barring the obvious aHAVs being nearly immune most of the time, which most people recognise) and FGs could use some help, but Swarms are the kick-in-the-teeth to balancing because they have near perfect application when used with half a brain.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
43
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Posted - 2015.06.01 00:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:My CEO has popped plenty of armor tank's (proto tank's require more than 1 person generally, which mean's team work which is why I think swarm's are fine), dropships aren't tanky by no mean's, if they were, they'd be like armor tank's and simply stay in 1 spot tanking swarm shots and then pull back when their at half armor, and more than likely after killing 3 of our boys or more. Popped armour HAVs with Swarms? Kinda emphasises the point doesn't it? And DSs aren't tanky enough to do anything but flee once they get hit by Swarms - the point isn't that they can't tank damage, but that they have no other response. Flee or die; at least with a Forge/PLC you can evade and maybe fight back, but there's no evading Swarms, it's just take a bunch of damage while futilely trying to find them then drop dead - unless you fled immediately. Edit: point being that it's not so much about the damage but about the application. HAVs aren't in a terrible place (barring the obvious aHAVs being nearly immune most of the time, which most people recognise) and FGs could use some help, but Swarms are the kick-in-the-teeth to balancing because they have near perfect application when used with half a brain.
But HAV's can still survive, more than 1 tank can be employed on the battlefield, maybe you just don't want to emply any real tactic's, like in battlefield 3-4, you have to be tactful in your placement, you have to watch out against JAVELIN's and AT mine's, (yes I know you have countermeasures in BF but without their use you'd still have to be tactful). I'm not like most people who'd tell you to "git good" that's pure ignorance, instead, explore possibilities, tactic's, converse with infantry, get them to help you, it's obvious you can't go solo if your being beaten so... "easily", then do what it take's to survive, squad up with the people.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
3
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Posted - 2015.06.01 02:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
i love when people say "ask infantry to help you"
just a sec ago finished a game with a proto gunnlogi
it took to the guy 5 sec arround to kill me with a swarm (had hardener extender and booster)
oh yes
i was behind thousand of teammate, with 2 gunner, (so not alone at all !!)
lets say i requested help, (i did) and my teamate didnt ignore me (they did ignore me ..., well not the first time)
how can you defend, help a tank that can be destroyed in 5 sec ?
and when in trouble try to flee with the WONDERFULL control ...
im just getting tired, of people who doesnt admit that there is something wrong with the SWARM mechanic
Im not english native and have a bad english, should i be blamed to try learning other language ?
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.06.01 02:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:But HAV's can still survive, more than 1 tank can be employed on the battlefield, maybe you just don't want to emply any real tactic's, like in battlefield 3-4, you have to be tactful in your placement, you have to watch out against JAVELIN's and AT mine's, (yes I know you have countermeasures in BF but without their use you'd still have to be tactful). I'm not like most people who'd tell you to "git good" that's pure ignorance, instead, explore possibilities, tactic's, converse with infantry, get them to help you, it's obvious you can't go solo if your being beaten so... "easily", then do what it take's to survive, squad up with the people.
Oh, I agree, actually, that HAVs are fine against Swarms and am in favour of actual balance concerning armour HAVs (which are too survivable with insane reps.)
My point is more that Swarms push the FG/PLC into almost obsolescence because they are as/more powerful but far simpler and easier to use very effectively.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
61
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Posted - 2015.06.01 03:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem with swarms has always been that they are expected to be maneuverable enough to catch an ADS while strong enough to kill HAVs. This leads to an OP weapon, especially when its fire and forget. The solution is to split the swarm into anti-air and anri-armor, with one good at killing HAVs while being to slow/unmaneuverable to catch an ADS, while the other is faster and turns tighter but is weaker to compensate for ADS having less health.
Rattati has given no word on this beyond a trello card over 8 months ago, so if anyone can get him talking about it, do so.
Right, because tanks cant out run swarms once they take any kind of damage already., and ds' are taken down by single volleys... |
RA Drahcir
0uter.Heaven
480
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Posted - 2015.06.01 06:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. |
HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
103
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers.
Trust me i am NOT a bad tanker. Ive taken on 3 gunlogis wlth 1 of them being blaster and the other two rail. In fact ill prove it, lets 1V1 Qsync and youll see just how bad of a tanker i am. Im stating one ******* officer swarm can rip a new hole in my tank. Its really bad in PC. There is always 2 aldins and officer swarms. Its terrible. In pubs every person commando in the game has swarms. And swarms are op. Let me guess youve never tanked in a proto tank. Get Good and know your facts before you come back. Then you can make an adequate augment.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
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Posted - 2015.06.01 19:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. Trust me i am NOT a bad tanker. Ive taken on 3 gunlogis wlth 1 of them being blaster and the other two rail. In fact ill prove it, lets 1V1 Qsync and youll see just how bad of a tanker i am. Im stating one ******* officer swarm can rip a new hole in my tank. Its really bad in PC. There is always 2 aldins and officer swarms. Its terrible. In pubs every person commando in the game has swarms. And swarms are op. Let me guess youve never tanked in a proto tank. Get Good and know your facts before you come back. Then you can make an adequate augment.
Right, officer swarm's, that deal the exact same damage as proto swarm's but has increased range 200 (from 175, ammo (by 1), and increase lock time 20? (of 40 I believe I forget). The real damage comes from FG's and PLC's i've seen them do massive damage to vehicles plenty of times, especially assault FG's, however, your stating that 2 or more people are taking out AV to kill YOU, I don't see a problem with that, tactic's and teamwork go a long way.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:i love when people say "ask infantry to help you"
just a sec ago finished a game with a proto gunnlogi
it took to the guy 5 sec arround to kill me with a swarm (had hardener extender and booster)
oh yes
i was behind thousand of teammate, with 2 gunner, (so not alone at all !!)
lets say i requested help, (i did) and my teamate didnt ignore me (they did ignore me ..., well not the first time)
how can you defend, help a tank that can be destroyed in 5 sec ?
and when in trouble try to flee with the WONDERFULL control ...
im just getting tired, of people who doesnt admit that there is something wrong with the SWARM mechanic
Okay, so i'll just state fact's and honest to god, apologize, I did NOT know you were rocking shield tank (though you may have mentioned it before), are you aware that swarms deal inverted profile damage of +40/S and -40/A? That's why shield tank's can be hurt by swarm's so easily, it just needs to be reverted back to being armor again, and then shield tanks can take swarm rounds, again I really apologize for thinking you were an armor tank. (Also duely note, that any nerf to SL's mean's greater inefficiency against armor tanked vehicles, thus my reluctance for a nerf and defense of SL, of course i'll still defend it, for as long as the armor tanks can survive 3 guys with AV). Also sorry for double post.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Jenni Welsh
Reincarnation Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2015.06.01 20:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:What is the point here? CCP likes AV. They love having toons losing expensive gear. And to only pick up 50WP if they kill the guy doing the deed. If the ganker spends the minimal amount the lulz is heightened. CCP loves that stuff. New Eden is based on it. Ganking, it's a thang, a New Eden thang. Three Lai Dai AV (that hit) will pop nearly everything. A Wyrm Swarmer will do a fast job so run or die, the Aldin FG can two shots many (with a two second charge), Jihad Jeeps, packed RE stuck to the vehicle. All these variations only mean one thing. This much too logical discussion is just verbal wack-a-mole. Regardless of what you come up with, CCP will trump it with PRO, Proficiency III or Officer weapons thus negating all your plans. All the suggestions in the world will not circumvent CCP's plan. Their plan is to burn vehicles, leaving drivers raging, AV crowing and ISK drained. Welcome to New Eden. Read my signature.
I absolutely second this post!!! IMO the biggest threat to CCP and Dust 514 are the many many people out there unwilling to grasp the concept of ingenuity and skill, bottomline when you combine these 2 things there will always be people complaining they got pwned even if the thing they are getting pwned with changes 100 different times in the same year. 
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.06.01 21:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Someone used Lai Dai's on me once. I returned to the field with vengeful swag and ****** up their entire team. 
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.01 23:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:anguel omura wrote:i love when people say "ask infantry to help you"
just a sec ago finished a game with a proto gunnlogi
it took to the guy 5 sec arround to kill me with a swarm (had hardener extender and booster)
oh yes
i was behind thousand of teammate, with 2 gunner, (so not alone at all !!)
lets say i requested help, (i did) and my teamate didnt ignore me (they did ignore me ..., well not the first time)
how can you defend, help a tank that can be destroyed in 5 sec ?
and when in trouble try to flee with the WONDERFULL control ...
im just getting tired, of people who doesnt admit that there is something wrong with the SWARM mechanic Okay, so i'll just state fact's and honest to god, apologize, I did NOT know you were rocking shield tank (though you may have mentioned it before), are you aware that swarms deal inverted profile damage of +40/S and -40/A? That's why shield tank's can be hurt by swarm's so easily, it just needs to be reverted back to being armor again, and then shield tanks can take swarm rounds, again I really apologize for thinking you were an armor tank. (Also duely note, that any nerf to SL's mean's greater inefficiency against armor tanked vehicles, thus my reluctance for a nerf and defense of SL, of course i'll still defend it, for as long as the armor tanks can survive 3 guys with AV). Also sorry for double post.
As a dropship pilot I can tell you 100% that Forges and PLC's are generally a non factor. Namely because they can be dodged by good piloting, as well as requiring a higher degree of skill out of the AV player.
Swarms on the other hand have no counter in the sky other than to run, unless you run dual hardeners and enjoy gambling and waiting on CD most of the game (even then, swarms punch through dual hardener very easily)
The simple fact is that swarms create an incredibly boring engagement where the pilots only option is almost always to run, which even that very act takes far more skill and attention than the swarmer ever has to commit because those things follow you FOREVER, and you can't turn to check because the moment you try, they'll impact you.
Simply put, swarms are a poorly designed weapon that create frustrating engagements, rather than fun and engaging ones.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 15:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
I miss the days when swarms were useless... Sure everyone will shout "'cuz you want to be immortal and get easy free farming" but everyone with a brain knows back then it was forge vs ads and being on either side was fun and entertaining.
Now if you try to go 1v1 with a forge gunner, some tool will bring out a swarm and ruin it... That's if you can actually find anyone who can aim. |
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
828
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. Trust me i am NOT a bad tanker. Ive taken on 3 gunlogis wlth 1 of them being blaster and the other two rail. In fact ill prove it, lets 1V1 Qsync and youll see just how bad of a tanker i am. Im stating one ******* officer swarm can rip a new hole in my tank. Its really bad in PC. There is always 2 aldins and officer swarms. Its terrible. In pubs every person commando in the game has swarms. And swarms are op. Let me guess youve never tanked in a proto tank. Get Good and know your facts before you come back. Then you can make an adequate augment.
Are you seriously complaining that officer gear can wreck your tank? Another thing, swarms are NOT OP, (dropships need more fitting room otherwise swarms are hell for them) The only time I see a tanker die to swarms is if they sit there thinking 'i'm hardened, i wont die' and they get punished for it.
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Damage dealt, if you do the math, is really low. without any proficiency or damage mods, a swarm will deal 1248 dmg. Take into account damage profile its near 1500 to unhardened armour and 998.4dmg to shields. A level 5 minmando with proficiency 5 and 2 damage mods is only going to deal 1228 damage to an unhardened shield tank, with 2 hardeners it is far less (around 200 damage per volley). With these numbers, explain how swarms are OP to any shield tank that is fit properly.
|
Al the destroyer
0uter.Heaven
417
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers.
You must be a noob here tanks are meant to be indestructible DUH!! A/V should just make pretty lights and flare balls to distract tankers and ADS!!! That way infantry can run indoors! |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
Al the destroyer wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. You must be a noob here tanks are meant to be indestructible DUH!! A/V should just make pretty lights and flare balls to distract tankers and ADS!!! That way infantry can run indoors!
If tank's are indestructible, then infantry should be just as indestructible. Otherwise is not fair to the people. 
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
|
Al the destroyer
0uter.Heaven
417
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:52:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Al the destroyer wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. You must be a noob here tanks are meant to be indestructible DUH!! A/V should just make pretty lights and flare balls to distract tankers and ADS!!! That way infantry can run indoors! If tank's are indestructible, then infantry should be just as indestructible. Otherwise is not fair to the people.
Agreed we should all be indestructible make it so |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Swarms aren't OP... They're broken.
People who don't use vehicles will never understand this, because they don't see the unfair way the game works for vehicles. If vehicles didn't render until they were within 40 meters or so, sure swarms wouldn't have that much of an advantage (apart from only having to aim vaguely in the direction they want to fire.)
Also when a vehicle shoots at you, you know it's shooting at you, half the time swarms don't even make a noise until right before they hit you... You might see it coming, but you can bet your arse that's the second lot as you'll feel the first plow into your hull long before it gets even mildly close.
Every other weapon in the game works within reason, but swarms are broken crap that ruin it for anyone who wants to use vehicles... Just replace the glitchy shite with something that fires like a normal bloody weapon, so that when the person firing it isn't rendering, at least there's a chance it will miss...
Or fix the blasted rendering issues (unlikely.) |
HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Swarms aren't OP... They're broken. People who don't use vehicles will never understand this, because they don't see the unfair way the game works for vehicles. If vehicles didn't render until they were within 40 meters or so, sure swarms wouldn't have that much of an advantage (apart from only having to aim vaguely in the direction they want to fire.) Also when a vehicle shoots at you, you know it's shooting at you, half the time swarms don't even make a noise until right before they hit you... You might see it coming, but you can bet your arse that's the second lot as you'll feel the first plow into your hull long before it gets even mildly close. Every other weapon in the game works within reason, but swarms are broken crap that ruin it for anyone who wants to use vehicles... Just replace the glitchy shite with something that fires like a normal bloody weapon, so that when the person firing it isn't rendering, at least there's a chance it will miss... Or fix the blasted rendering issues (unlikely.)
Yes swarms are broken i agree. Their not nessesaraly op just that there too easy to use at no user errors.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
|
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Swarms aren't OP... They're broken. People who don't use vehicles will never understand this, because they don't see the unfair way the game works for vehicles. If vehicles didn't render until they were within 40 meters or so, sure swarms wouldn't have that much of an advantage (apart from only having to aim vaguely in the direction they want to fire.) Also when a vehicle shoots at you, you know it's shooting at you, half the time swarms don't even make a noise until right before they hit you... You might see it coming, but you can bet your arse that's the second lot as you'll feel the first plow into your hull long before it gets even mildly close. Every other weapon in the game works within reason, but swarms are broken crap that ruin it for anyone who wants to use vehicles... Just replace the glitchy shite with something that fires like a normal bloody weapon, so that when the person firing it isn't rendering, at least there's a chance it will miss... Or fix the blasted rendering issues (unlikely.) Yes swarms are broken i agree. Their not nessesaraly op just that there too easy to use at no user errors.
And it's absolutely horrible that swarm's can't GO AROUND BUILDINGS, OBJECT'S OR MOUNTAINS, yes completely broken, no user error, even though when you fire it, it's like it's absolutely broken, with no error in the user, just plenty of error in the missiles themselves, completely broken... (If your daft, i'm making sarcastic remark's while exposing the "no user error" at the same time, it's in the big bold letter's, your welcome).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
|
HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Swarms aren't OP... They're broken. People who don't use vehicles will never understand this, because they don't see the unfair way the game works for vehicles. If vehicles didn't render until they were within 40 meters or so, sure swarms wouldn't have that much of an advantage (apart from only having to aim vaguely in the direction they want to fire.) Also when a vehicle shoots at you, you know it's shooting at you, half the time swarms don't even make a noise until right before they hit you... You might see it coming, but you can bet your arse that's the second lot as you'll feel the first plow into your hull long before it gets even mildly close. Every other weapon in the game works within reason, but swarms are broken crap that ruin it for anyone who wants to use vehicles... Just replace the glitchy shite with something that fires like a normal bloody weapon, so that when the person firing it isn't rendering, at least there's a chance it will miss... Or fix the blasted rendering issues (unlikely.) Yes swarms are broken i agree. Their not nessesaraly op just that there too easy to use at no user errors. And it's absolutely horrible that swarm's can't GO AROUND BUILDINGS, OBJECT'S OR MOUNTAINS, yes completely broken, no user error, even though when you fire it, it's like it's absolutely broken, with no error in the user, just plenty of error in the missiles themselves, completely broken... (If your daft, i'm making sarcastic remark's while exposing the "no user error" at the same time, it's in the big bold letter's, your welcome).
Well someone pissed.. there is no errors. When the swarms sound glitches that just help the av. Its hurts me i need to hear it so i can activate hardeners or run away. Man your a dush
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
SWARMS FIRE SO FAST THE SOUND GLITCHES
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
This still here?
Oh well, how about limiting their total turns to 270 degrees? Not only do they follow you back around a corner they will go way past 360 degrees to do it.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:04:00 -
[72] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:This still here?
Oh well, how about limiting their total turns to 270 degrees? Not only do they follow you back around a corner they will go way past 360 degrees to do it.
Too tell you the truth , it just the spamming mostly. But yes the degree nerf is fine
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:As somebody who foolishly invested millions into AV weapons, I am sick of having to lock-on.
Lemme fire the damn thing when I want, at the target I want. Too many times have my attempts at an HAV suppository been thwarted due to annoying lock-on and fire mechanics. Yes. What I want requires swarms to be re-imagined. [Edit for clarification: What I want is more akin to a Caldary RPG launcher with multiple rockets fired at once, with damage balanced for AV and whatever fool aims it at infantry.]
Better for me.
Better for pilots.
Better for fun.
CCP... make like Nike and "Just Do It."
THEN THAT WILL BE THE END OF DUST VEHICLES, however its better than the swarms we have now. Atleast it will take a little effort.
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
776
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 02:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out.
why not? |
spridis
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
What about the swarms ability to instantly do a 180 and hit its target. Drop ships have a big problem with it, back when the game was newer you could doge a swarms missiles and they would have to do a large loop to get back on target. Most of the time they would die out and explode. This made flying more about the pilots skill then how many armor plaits you have or armor repair. ps i know its a syfy style game but come on rockets that can do a 180 degree turn on a dime. please show me the engineering behind that.
Blood before Honor, Honor before Friends, Friends before Lies, Lies before Enemy's.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
So how does this help Tankers and ADS' that already go 10+ & 0? Seriously bro, your crying cause you don't know when to GTFO the place? It's been like this since early closed beta and CCP never tried to fix it, secondly the only warning we get is nothing when a dropship pilot or gunner starts shooting at us, a railgun or missile tank could be too far way for us on radar and still don't get warning for that, we don't get a warning when a non cloak scout is running up behind us, so really how much do you intend to break before AV is shoved out the door? If your not willing to pay the price, do something else
There was more but the rest got glitched out on PS3, pretty much stated that numerous things a broken in this game, 500 melee damage, cal stats, fact we get blown up by invisa tanks, cause their using rail and missile, etc etc, also stated, no dev or cpm, no support aside from us regulars, also hit detection, so yeah, no one thing should be fixed before everything else, and vehicles vs AV is one of them. Not trying to make you lose hope here, but CCP has shown us their affinity for a lobby shooter, this is what you get, and in life, you get what you get.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:So how does this help Tankers and ADS' that already go 10+ & 0? Seriously bro, your crying cause you don't know when to GTFO the place? It's been like this since early closed beta and CCP never tried to fix it, secondly the only warning we get is nothing when a dropship pilot or gunner starts shooting at us, a railgun or missile tank could be too far way for us on radar and still don't get warning for that, we don't get a warning when a non cloak scout is running up behind us
Really?
In a match the other day, I saw an RDV get called in, the other side of the map, I followed the tanks movements with my cross-hair (through all the buildings) I then came upon the tank out in the open... It clearly had a missile turret, I shot my TacAR at it go get it's attention, then proceeded to dance around in front of it while it spewed missiles all around me.
My point being, you can see vehicles from miles off, the almost always render properly, even at ridiculous ranges... Even without the crappy bug that lets you see where they are simply by wobbling your sight in their approximate direction, through all obstacles/terrain/buildings!
I run on the ground enough to know that if I look behind myself, not only can I see the uncloaked scouts and pop them with my breach shotgun, but I can also see the cloaked ones.
The other day I saw some swarms get fired across the map, I flew my ads down to the location seeing nothing on the ground... a few seconds later I get hit by swarms, I turn around and would you guess it, theres the swarmer about 40 meters back in the direction I just flew from... Had he been rendering I could have shot him, but because of the glitchy ****, he's now been able to lock and fire 2 rounds from safety... 1 more and I'm dead, no choice but to fly away as fast as I can and get blown up by the 3rd lot, since they move faster than an afterburning ads.
THIS IS NOT BALANCE, THIS IS NOT FUN, THIS IS **** POOR DESIGN... It needs fixing. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
The critical issue with this game, not getting rewarded for properly skilling into an item, weapon, or suit. Like I said before, unless there's a DEV or CPM involved, none of these things are going to get properly fixed, (it'd also help if we knew he was packing 2/3 weapons on his person, like visually, but you know how this game is).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly.
There's too many cod boy's playing this game thats why, not enough people who actually wanna use tactic's, I mean where else do you get these people throwing RE's everywhere, same damn thing in COD happens all the time, even if they want to fix swarms, it's not gonna solve anything, cause guess what? Their just gonna make something else powerful, FOTM AV, would you rather have broken swarms that follow you, that can hit a building if you move tactfully? or would you rather have an AV weapon that 1 shots you regardless of how far you are? regardless if you have 10k+ EHP it'd still one shot you, sure there'd be a chance to miss, but we're talking GV.0's here with 10k+ EHP and hardeners on, and still get one shotted, or do you people never think of the consequences of your requests?
If everything thats been written in this thread has not forced you to actually start a channel for vehicles/gunners/teamwork, then maybe you should start one.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 16:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly. There's too many cod boy's playing this game thats why, not enough people who actually wanna use tactic's, I mean where else do you get these people throwing RE's everywhere, same damn thing in COD happens all the time, even if they want to fix swarms, it's not gonna solve anything, cause guess what? Their just gonna make something else powerful, FOTM AV, would you rather have broken swarms that follow you, that can hit a building if you move tactfully? or would you rather have an AV weapon that 1 shots you regardless of how far you are? regardless if you have 10k+ EHP it'd still one shot you, sure there'd be a chance to miss, but we're talking GV.0's here with 10k+ EHP and hardeners on, and still get one shotted, or do you people never think of the consequences of your requests? If everything thats been written in this thread has not forced you to actually start a channel for vehicles/gunners/teamwork, then maybe you should start one.
Actually it comes down to the game being really boring, and if you made pilots only able to be glorified chauffeurs, it would be incredibly boring. You would literally just sit there all game listening for swarms and having to turn off your music to listen to some idiot yelling how he can't see the enemy, or you getting pissed off because he's shooting the wrong thing.
When infantry players require two people to run their dropsuits, vehicles can require two people to be run too. You can already solo vehicles if you're patient and not bad.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 17:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly. There's too many cod boy's playing this game thats why, not enough people who actually wanna use tactic's, I mean where else do you get these people throwing RE's everywhere, same damn thing in COD happens all the time, even if they want to fix swarms, it's not gonna solve anything, cause guess what? Their just gonna make something else powerful, FOTM AV, would you rather have broken swarms that follow you, that can hit a building if you move tactfully? or would you rather have an AV weapon that 1 shots you regardless of how far you are? regardless if you have 10k+ EHP it'd still one shot you, sure there'd be a chance to miss, but we're talking GV.0's here with 10k+ EHP and hardeners on, and still get one shotted, or do you people never think of the consequences of your requests? If everything thats been written in this thread has not forced you to actually start a channel for vehicles/gunners/teamwork, then maybe you should start one. Actually it comes down to the game being really boring, and if you made pilots only able to be glorified chauffeurs, it would be incredibly boring. You would literally just sit there all game listening for swarms and having to turn off your music to listen to some idiot yelling how he can't see the enemy, or you getting pissed off because he's shooting the wrong thing. When infantry players require two people to run their dropsuits, vehicles can require two people to be run too. You can already solo vehicles if you're patient and not bad.
I'm assuming that heavy and their logi's don't count? Just saying... 
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:I'm assuming that heavy and their logi's don't count? Just saying...
I was unaware that in order to deploy a heavy or a logi one needed the other.
Learn somethin new every day
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
Of course, you do, how else will 1k armor suits survive 5 guys with rail rifles, or combat rifles, or both. Or how would Logi's get their war point's, synergy man, like how someone make's an accidental innuendo joke in RvB and tucker goes "BOW CHICA WOW WOW!". It's common sense its not a fighter jet (okay joking aside, yes heavies need logi's to survive, therefore it takes 2 players to make 1 suit function as is stated above in your post).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Of course, you do, how else will 1k armor suits survive 5 guys with rail rifles, or combat rifles, or both. Or how would Logi's get their war point's, synergy man, like how someone make's an accidental innuendo joke in RvB and tucker goes "BOW CHICA WOW WOW!". It's common sense its not a fighter jet (okay joking aside, yes heavies need logi's to survive, therefore it takes 2 players to make 1 suit function as is stated above in your post).
That is so asinine that it hurts.
I used to run heavy exclusively and never once required a logi, and when I played as a logi I never once required a heavy. What we're talking about are two totally different things.
Your example doesn't REQUIRE the other, the other merely ENHANCES the first.
If you split turret from the driver, you REQUIRE a second person to be anything other than a glorified taxi. It is absolutely an entirely different situation. Only bad heavies and logi's REQUIRE a teammate with them in 100% constant communication and synchronization in order to get just 1 kill throughout an entire match.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
I see... So, uhh, you wanna like, drive me to the front of alpha so I can go for a quick hack? If your a good tanker, I might just let you take a few kill's (i'm sorry I can't resist this statement). Listen dude, it's just gonna come out as losing 1 AV for the other, you nerf swarm's then everyones gonna rock FG and PLC, two weapons that not only kill vehicles, but can 1 shot everyone in the game, you'd only end up ruining the game for everyone, especially vehicles, I mean seriously, how many people skilled into FG's? Can you just imagine a full game of 16 players, all heavies rocking FG's? And having used them for so long, be impossibly accurate with them? (You still haven't answered my question: Have you not learned of consequence's that everything bring's?).
Edit: I mean for real's just imagine it for like 5 second's, everyone getting plowed by PLC's and FG's (bow chica wow wow). (<< couldn't resist this edit).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ahh I see now
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
In that case. Carry on.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:48:00 -
[88] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ahh I see now
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
In that case. Carry on.
I know exactly what i'm talking about, you always trade in 1 thing for another, give and take, so let's say we give vehicle user's what they want? What's the price? What's the equivalent exchange? You think that vehicle's would remain untouched if swarm's get nerfed? Or get "fixed"? There is always cause and effect, like rattati nerfing all the dropships when the time came for a rebalance or "fix" for them. Before you want something done, like a deal, you must sign the contract, you must lose something you favor, something you love, or make up the price with something else or other, something not as expensive, not as endearing, real question is, are you willing to pay the price for what you want? Do you think it would be worth it? That's the game you play, this isn't maplestory where there is little consequence to your action's, not Halo or CoD where skill over takes a weapons weaknesses, again, you want a nerf for a weapon that supposedly take's very little skill to use? Simply be prepared for CCP to take just as much if not more from the vehicles in return.
Nobody ever get's what they want in this game. That's what 2 year's of playing this game has taught me.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
558
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 04:04:00 -
[89] - Quote
comeing from both using vehicles and AV..... I don't see the issue here....
when using swarms you have to be mindful of opposing infantry and hope your sidearm is good to fend them off (cala's-33 smg ftw) not to mention how quickly as vehicle can leave your lock range. DS and ADS can still simply activate their afterburner and escape your swarm volleys. the wyikomi swarm takes about 1.2-1.5 sec's to lock on then factor in launch time, volley split then the missiles individual travel time to target.....then factor in any obstacles..... or if your attacking a vehicle in open ground you have a good chance of getting 3 volleys into the air IF he dosnt notice you. ironically swarms are best used close as possible to targets as they have travel time to targets hence the further your target is the less overall damage you can apply when including the vehicles movement speed and rep rate. also don't shoot shield vehicles with swarms it's stupid.
from the vehicle point of view.
swarms will hurt when your hardners are down if your an armour vehicle due to the +15% I think it is for swarms hitting armour. also forge guns hurt with the +10% and the same +15% for av grenades. when running your armour hardner swarms will still hurt for a bit depening on profieceny and damage mods used on the suit but not as much. the best way to reduce incomeing damage is too simply kill the bastard.......come on this is a HAV here. a war machine why would you try run away from an engagement with out reducing incomeing fire first. 2-3 guys attack you with swarms and can kill you. these infantry have no where near your HP vale and you should be able to kill at least one of them.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 16:52:00 -
[90] - Quote
Actually, I just had an idea; Why not have a module that increases the enemies lock on time? Wouldn't work on grenades since they'd be so close anyhow, but if that were the case there wouldn't be a need for any real changes to the swarm's now would there?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Terry Webber
Molon Labe.
RUST415
733
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming.
Charge up time on missiles are actually pretty stupid, no missile does this, other than that, have it like a standard RPG that fires 4 round's instead of 1? Fine... but i'll expect alot of damage to come from it, just like a PLC, it's only fair...
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 21:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
It's ironic Zan that you have based your entire opinion of vehicle pilots on the worlds an actions of one player than even most other vehicle pilots loath to include in vehicle discussion, not because his experience or ideals are wrong but because his attitude is incredibly poor and not wholly constructive.
I think we can all agree that team would could and should be a part of HAV and vehicle combat but not at the cost of core functionality of the vehicle. As Dust Fiend has said dividing the gunnery and pilot roles for vehicles like the Assault Dropship and HAV relegates them from being an enjoyable career choices to as Dust Fiend states 'glorified chauffeurs'.
We can argue about what the core reasons vehicles become unbalanced are on a build by build basis and would eventually reach the same bloody stale mate we always reach with neither side giving ground and submitting to nerfs. In this case however while I like Mobius' suggestion I do not believe it is the optimal path to vehicle balance only the optimal path to creating a game in which more infantry function on the field and vehicles are the irregular choice no one wants to commit riflemen to operating, in much the same way it is on most maps.
I'm also astounded by the double standard that many infantrymen lay at the feet of vehicle pilots insinuating that a pilot scoring say 10/0 or 12/1 or the like is somehow vastly different or less fair than another infantryman finishing the game with 15/2 or 22/0. You can scream 1 for 1 at me all day but when an AVer is good enough at their job to kill me then they will kill me and not sooner.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 21:18:00 -
[94] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:It's ironic Zan that you have based your entire opinion of vehicle pilots on the worlds an actions of one player than even most other vehicle pilots loath to include in vehicle discussion, not because his experience or ideals are wrong but because his attitude is incredibly poor and not wholly constructive.
I think we can all agree that team would could and should be a part of HAV and vehicle combat but not at the cost of core functionality of the vehicle. As Dust Fiend has said dividing the gunnery and pilot roles for vehicles like the Assault Dropship and HAV relegates them from being an enjoyable career choices to as Dust Fiend states 'glorified chauffeurs'.
We can argue about what the core reasons vehicles become unbalanced are on a build by build basis and would eventually reach the same bloody stale mate we always reach with neither side giving ground and submitting to nerfs. In this case however while I like Mobius' suggestion I do not believe it is the optimal path to vehicle balance only the optimal path to creating a game in which more infantry function on the field and vehicles are the irregular choice no one wants to commit riflemen to operating, in much the same way it is on most maps.
I'm also astounded by the double standard that many infantrymen lay at the feet of vehicle pilots insinuating that a pilot scoring say 10/0 or 12/1 or the like is somehow vastly different or less fair than another infantryman finishing the game with 15/2 or 22/0. You can scream 1 for 1 at me all day but when an AVer is good enough at their job to kill me then they will kill me and not sooner.
Said it once, i'll say it again, I want fairness for both side's, and fact is, most people are too dumb to run vehicle's and some are too dumb to use anti vehicles, my entire opinion is never going to actually be on the vehicles, it'll be on the player that uses them, a player define's vehicles, not the suit's (double standards I know). Most of the time when vehicles go +10/0 it's because of skill, or the fact his enemies are too dumb and scrubbish to actually take him out, i've used swarm's and literally many if not all the time vehicles have either come out on top, or ran out of my line of sight, being smart, being skilled (same case can be made for infantry, some people simply don't know how to take them out) , that's why i'm against swarm nerfing, unless you make them dumbfire and give them the PLC treatment, it'll never be fixed, and if vehicles tankers be smart, and skilled, there won't ever be a need for a nerf to swarm's, because swarm's will always be out played (until you hit a wall that is).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Ld Collins
Second-Nature
189
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 15:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
Why can't we just nerf the basic swarm and buff the assault. The assault swarm would be the only swarm that would require skill. Make the standard swarm half of the strength as a assault swarm and then increase the amount of missiles launched from the assault from 4 missiles to 6. When the assault swarms locks onto a single target it should take longer to lock. This way even with the damage buff vehicle users have more time to get away. Also the tracking distance of basic swarms should be nerfed too swarms shouldn't follow you over 400+ meters that's ridiculous considering small missile turrets can't shoot that far nor can a pilot see a target from over 400+ m. If you fly past a target who locks onto your DS you shouldn't have to outrun 3 volleys of missiles.
Additionally I believe the most likely scenarios that make swarm users feel that swarms are balanced or that tanks at times can be op is because no one uses the assault swarms. If two tanks show up to an area more than likely two players will focus on one tank while the other tank is free to assist the other tanker. They will be successful destroying one tank and die to the other and think well that seems balanced. When 3 tanks show up they panic and attack each tank at random that's when tanks are OP. Now in both scenarios neither player will decided to bring an assault swarm if both players had assault swarms in the first scenario both tanks could probably be killed. You could have 1 player shooting 2 tanks at once and the other player focusing on 1, or both players should simply attack both tanks. When 3 tanks show up 2 Players can still attack 2 tanks at the same time and in some cases attack all 3 at the same time. This is something that you would never see because the basic swarm launcher is the best option. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:I'm assuming that heavy and their logi's don't count? Just saying...
No. Because one is not required in order for the other to succeed.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
441
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
soooo team work is OP got it. see tankers complain that av is OP and can solo beep beeps,calims team work is needed to kill vehic. players use team work tanker complains no they should use more team work to kill a tank while large turrets on tanks can fire farther than 175m. and actually hit things but i digress back to the point YOU LOST A TANK TO 2 SWARMS WORKING TOGETHER.
Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:
Said it once, i'll say it again, I want fairness for both side's, and fact is, most people are too dumb to run vehicle's and some are too dumb to use anti vehicles, my entire opinion is never going to actually be on the vehicles, it'll be on the player that uses them, a player define's vehicles, not the suit's (double standards I know). Most of the time when vehicles go +10/0 it's because of skill, or the fact his enemies are too dumb and scrubbish to actually take him out, i've used swarm's and literally many if not all the time vehicles have either come out on top, or ran out of my line of sight, being smart, being skilled (same case can be made for infantry, some people simply don't know how to take them out) , that's why i'm against swarm nerfing, unless you make them dumbfire and give them the PLC treatment, it'll never be fixed, and if vehicles tankers be smart, and skilled, there won't ever be a need for a nerf to swarm's, because swarm's will always be out played (until you hit a wall that is).
Entire post ignores the fact that swarms do a higher DPS rate than any other weapon in the game. They do higher shield DPS than the Forge gun does armor, or the PLC does shields.
I have little sympathy for a lot of vehicle drivers, but please, feel free to actually do the research on how things work BEFORE you try to tell them that they're clueless.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:49:00 -
[99] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:It's ironic Zan that you have based your entire opinion of vehicle pilots on the worlds an actions of one player than even most other vehicle pilots loath to include in vehicle discussion, not because his experience or ideals are wrong but because his attitude is incredibly poor and not wholly constructive.
I think we can all agree that team would could and should be a part of HAV and vehicle combat but not at the cost of core functionality of the vehicle. As Dust Fiend has said dividing the gunnery and pilot roles for vehicles like the Assault Dropship and HAV relegates them from being an enjoyable career choices to as Dust Fiend states 'glorified chauffeurs'.
We can argue about what the core reasons vehicles become unbalanced are on a build by build basis and would eventually reach the same bloody stale mate we always reach with neither side giving ground and submitting to nerfs. In this case however while I like Mobius' suggestion I do not believe it is the optimal path to vehicle balance only the optimal path to creating a game in which more infantry function on the field and vehicles are the irregular choice no one wants to commit riflemen to operating, in much the same way it is on most maps.
I'm also astounded by the double standard that many infantrymen lay at the feet of vehicle pilots insinuating that a pilot scoring say 10/0 or 12/1 or the like is somehow vastly different or less fair than another infantryman finishing the game with 15/2 or 22/0. You can scream 1 for 1 at me all day but when an AVer is good enough at their job to kill me then they will kill me and not sooner.
I think Judge's assertion that 50/1 KD is fair stuck a little too hard in too many craws.
No, leave the vehicle control schemes alone. Unless you want to improve them so that they can actually maneuver.
The Balance stalemate unfortunately is born of the ISK cost of vehicles. Everything in the game is treated as powerful, usable, but ultimately destructible and disposable... Unless we're talking about vehicles. Honestly I think HAVs should be as disposable as dropsuits. A bit harder to kill (by a fair margin) but still disposable. The main block to this is ISK.
When it can take two matches to field an HAV at STD level, then the profession isn't sustainable. As the profession is not sustainable, the drivers fight tooth and nail to keep them from feeling disposable.
Because 1.2 million ISK paid just to become a fire pinata 40 seconds later is probably the most frustrating thing in the world. There's 5-8 match payouts down the toilet all in one shot. Tanks would be easier to balance, and AV the same, if tanks (and other vehicles) could be reasonably sustained on the field.
ISK may not be a balancing factor, but it has a major effect on one's ability to be able to actually make vehicles a career path in the game and break even.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Ld Collins
Second-Nature
189
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible soooo team work is OP got it. see tankers complain that av is OP and can solo beep beeps,calims team work is needed to kill vehic. players use team work tanker complains no they should use more team work to kill a tank while large turrets on tanks can fire farther than 175m. and actually hit things but i digress back to the point YOU LOST A TANK TO 2 SWARMS WORKING TOGETHER.
I would say that in the case of av team work it is pretty op. Vehicle users are given very little opportunity when it comes to team work. For example a tank needs 3 people inside of it or a tank would need another vehicle to assist. The tank solely has his own skills to depend on for reps tank and damage. When you are in a small turret seat and a tank applies a buff you can barely see your target and when you are swarmed your view is completely obscured momentarily. Its hard to shoot back especially with small railgun turrets since they wont hit a target if you zoom in on them. What a tanker would have to rely on is a rep tool that hopefully his co pilot has. This means that one of both co pilots have to exit the vehicle in order to assist the tank leaving them completely defenseless. Now more realistically the tank would have to evade other enemy vehicles and Av. The two outside of the tank cannot run and rep at the same time making things pretty much impossible unless the tank managed to hide in cover. This however takes the tank out of occupied territory.
The swarm users can effectively stay in the area and kill other players simply by switching to a rifle. They have nanohives to provide ammo and health. They more than likely have an uplink to keep them in the area also. Its just too easy to be effective its a campers dream. CCP took away the ability for vehicles to rep each other because TEAMWORK WAS OP. :-) |
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MythTanker
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
536
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
My 1000 Officers Forge Guns are laughing at you all
NF's Official Forge Gun Bitch
GÇ£Mythtanker cant hit the broadside of a barn with a forge gunGÇ£ -Dust User
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:My 1000 Officers Forge Guns are laughing at you all
Why does anyone need that many?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
So, if the tank's become more readily available (wouldn't complain, more tanks = more wp's for anyone popping them), then it would be better balanced? Okay i'll admit that I skimmed some of what was said, so i'm only taking scarce notes, i'll re-read them properly later, but if the vehicles costed very little say, 40k for a GV.0? and maybe +2k for each mods used, it could be better balanced and less stressful? (this is the jist im getting here, cause we're seriously getting absolutely no where here, the more people go back and forth in this thread, the more things stay the same, eventually this will have all become absolutely moot, so we need to come up with a compromise that both sides can be happy/okay with).
Edit: And so we're clear, the 40k a gv.0 is just an examplatory number, not the actual number i'd set it at.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:So, if the tank's become more readily available (wouldn't complain, more tanks = more wp's for anyone popping them), then it would be better balanced? Okay i'll admit that I skimmed some of what was said, so i'm only taking scarce notes, i'll re-read them properly later, but if the vehicles costed very little say, 40k for a GV.0? and maybe +2k for each mods used, it could be better balanced and less stressful? (this is the jist im getting here, cause we're seriously getting absolutely no where here, the more people go back and forth in this thread, the more things stay the same, eventually this will have all become absolutely moot, so we need to come up with a compromise that both sides can be happy/okay with).
read the pilot threads, of all the arguments that they trot out, even knowing that the Devs do not consider it a balancing factor:
ISK.
Vehicles are not sustainable for any appreciable length of time unless you're swimming in stupid levels of it. As long as a militia HAV costs about as much to fit fully as a prototype fatty forge, we're never going to hear the end of this idiotic Screaming match merry-go-round.
Do I think HAVs should be as cheap as say, a dropsuit?
No.
But I'm more of the opinion that pricing should be based on utility:
If an HAV is overall 4x more effective than the equivalent solo dropsuit, and 4x as difficult to kill? It should probably cost in the neighborhood of 4x the cost of the dropsuit, not 10x.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Ld Collins
Second-Nature
189
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:20:00 -
[105] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:So, if the tank's become more readily available (wouldn't complain, more tanks = more wp's for anyone popping them), then it would be better balanced? Okay i'll admit that I skimmed some of what was said, so i'm only taking scarce notes, i'll re-read them properly later, but if the vehicles costed very little say, 40k for a GV.0? and maybe +2k for each mods used, it could be better balanced and less stressful? (this is the jist im getting here, cause we're seriously getting absolutely no where here, the more people go back and forth in this thread, the more things stay the same, eventually this will have all become absolutely moot, so we need to come up with a compromise that both sides can be happy/okay with).
If tanks didn't cost 1.2 million to be good that would be a start. You have to seriously invest an insane amount of time into skilling up a tank basic tank skills get you killed advanced tank skills get you killed the only good tank is a tank with maxed skills. Those tanks are good but the performance the expensive the time put into getting to that level is insane. Losing 1.2 mil on the regular is not fun considering at the end of the match your reward is 350k 250k average. Once your tank blows up you have to win 5 matches without calling another tank to break even. Meanwhile swarm guy gets 400k because hes just racking up war points every single match.
Also I'll add that swarmers can be revived with full capabilities. My posts are being ignored because no one can come up with a significant counter. |
Terry Webber
Molon Labe.
RUST415
733
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:58:00 -
[106] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Terry Webber wrote:Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming. Charge up time on missiles are actually pretty stupid, no missile does this, other than that, have it like a standard RPG that fires 4 round's instead of 1? Fine... but i'll expect alot of damage to come from it, just like a PLC, it's only fair... All right, no charge-up. No need to be so bitter. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 19:09:00 -
[107] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Terry Webber wrote:Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming. Charge up time on missiles are actually pretty stupid, no missile does this, other than that, have it like a standard RPG that fires 4 round's instead of 1? Fine... but i'll expect alot of damage to come from it, just like a PLC, it's only fair... All right, no charge-up. No need to be so bitter.
Too many caldari weapons have charge spool, and if the missile launcher turrets don't have charge spool, swarms shouldn't have a charge spool (save for the lock on time). You want people to use the SL with skill, give it the PLC/Mass driver treatment, or else we're gonna sit here in these forums for the next 3 months getting nothing done.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
836
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:00:00 -
[108] - Quote
Why does everyone want dumbfire swarms again? Does nobody remember the last time we had them?
I think as a weapon to fight vehicles the swarm launcher is fine it cannot hurt infantry. dropships need to be buffed and so do shield tanks and LAVs. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
Because it won't come with lock on, it'll end up being some what slower than the average missile turret, and will apparently require "skill" that everyone b****es about, you trade in 1 thing for another, thats fair game, right?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
|
Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
836
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:10:00 -
[110] - Quote
So tanks die super fast but dropships become almost unkillable? As much as I hate to say this, I think dropships just need an alarm system for lock on until rendering is sorted because the swarm launcher is not OP. |
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
dropships have to slow down to fire properly, in that time, you strike, besides, I did say some what slower than a missile turret.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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XxGhazbaranxX
Eternal Beings
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 05:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome
Plasma Cannon Advocate
|
Blueprint For Murder
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
466
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 06:15:00 -
[113] - Quote
I can unload a full clip of pro swarms into a tank and not kill it. If I am facing adds if I can get a full clip off I may kill it, but if a swarm user is able to get a full clip off it is your fault you died. I say this as both a pilot and a aver.
Fast 6/1 - 6/30 Life$
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The Master Race
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
478
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 06:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
I can unload a full clip of pro swarms into a tank and not kill it. If I am facing adds if I can get a full clip off I may kill it, but if a swarm user is able to get a full clip off it is your fault you died. I say this as both a pilot and a aver.
Amatoxin
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 14:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome
So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak.
As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 22:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak. As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity.
Bastards would have to go a lot faster to be viable at any range other than "Just use the AHMG."
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 22:18:00 -
[117] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak. As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity. Bastards would have to go a lot faster to be viable at any range other than "Just use the AHMG."
10% missile speed per level?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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E-Rock
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
95
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 23:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
Vehicle users shouldn't complain about any AV users. Ohh your poooooor tanks and dropships. Cry me a river. Most tankers just come out of the red line with their dual armor gardeners kill a bunch of ground troops then return to the red line. As a ground troop I can 1v1 a tank of and only if I sneak up on them. The range on swarms is not as wonderful as it used to be and getting a lock on with swarms is not as simple as you might thing. Tanks are extremely strong. If you get got by a ground troop or troops, learn how to pilot vehicles better. Cry me a river, buddy.
Think I should run for CPM? Messege me.pÇǵùѵ£¼F¬PsñºS+êsñ½
-Founder of the CKC
-Fatal Absolution #bringbackthewarbarg
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 23:01:00 -
[119] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak. As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity. Bastards would have to go a lot faster to be viable at any range other than "Just use the AHMG." 10% missile speed per level?
more like near-bullet-speed
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 23:11:00 -
[120] - Quote
Well, no, I say 10% cause they might end up with splash damage, so it'll give dodging room for infantry.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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HOLY PERFECTION
FINAL TRIBULATION
115
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Posted - 2015.09.03 02:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:My 1000 Officers Forge Guns are laughing at you all
 why?
**Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
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HOLY PERFECTION
FINAL TRIBULATION
117
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Posted - 2015.09.03 03:02:00 -
[122] - Quote
E-Rock wrote:Vehicle users shouldn't complain about any AV users. Ohh your poooooor tanks and dropships. Cry me a river. Most tankers just come out of the red line with their dual armor gardeners kill a bunch of ground troops then return to the red line. As a ground troop I can 1v1 a tank of and only if I sneak up on them. The range on swarms is not as wonderful as it used to be and getting a lock on with swarms is not as simple as you might thing. Tanks are extremely strong. If you get got by a ground troop or troops, learn how to pilot vehicles better. Cry me a river, buddy.
I don't hide in the redline, I'm a blaster Maddie and stay until I die. And cry me a river of blood you AV punk XD
**Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
192
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 04:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
I have seen a single tank taking fire of 2 swarms and my plasma cannon (yeah, yeah, the plasma is for shields) and keep going as if nothing had happened. Of course, he had hardeners on (at least one).
Now, swarms are a pain in the ass for shield tanks, because once the shield is out there is not enough armor to take one hit. And armor tanks, without hardeners do get wracked
My point, with hardeners everything is a lot easier, but without them...
I get now when people complain about swarms, but instead of nerfing them, there should be an increase of general HP to tanks while reducing hardeners effectiveness or not allowing to fit more than one. Maybe both. This way a tank could take more damage, requiring more players attacking it with AV weapons. And with the modifications to the hardeners, this module could become a piece to use more tactically (engaging multiple AV players, another tank) instead of using them to get in and out just like that (godmode, I recall some saying that once).
Im pretty sure it sounds crazy, but with a buff in HP, tanks could stop relying so much in the hardeners, but for this this module needs to be changed in the way it works (as I was saying). So, an armor tank could be around 6000 armor hp. and with 2500 shield hp, while the shield tanks could be around 7000 shield hp and 1500 armor hp. And the hardeners, besides allowing just one module, could be changed to a 30%.
Crazy, yes, but I think it could be really interesting. |
HOLY PERFECTION
FINAL TRIBULATION
117
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 10:46:00 -
[124] - Quote
Mikel Arias wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible I have seen a single tank taking fire of 2 swarms and my plasma cannon (yeah, yeah, the plasma is for shields) and keep going as if nothing had happened. Of course, he had hardeners on (at least one). Now, swarms are a pain in the ass for shield tanks, because once the shield is out there is not enough armor to take one hit. And armor tanks, without hardeners do get wracked My point, with hardeners everything is a lot easier, but without them... I get now when people complain about swarms, but instead of nerfing them, there should be an increase of general HP to tanks while reducing hardeners effectiveness or not allowing to fit more than one. Maybe both. This way a tank could take more damage, requiring more players attacking it with AV weapons. And with the modifications to the hardeners, this module could become a piece to use more tactically (engaging multiple AV players, another tank) instead of using them to get in and out just like that (godmode, I recall some saying that once). Im pretty sure it sounds crazy, but with a buff in HP, tanks could stop relying so much in the hardeners, but for this this module needs to be changed in the way it works (as I was saying). So, an armor tank could be around 6000 armor hp. and with 2500 shield hp, while the shield tanks could be around 7000 shield hp and 1500 armor hp. And the hardeners, besides allowing just one module, could be changed to a 30%. Crazy, yes, but I think it could be really interesting.
Well that tells you something about swarms then. Tankers NEED hardeners to survive and that's sad. CCP said they wanted us to use hardeners, but I'm not sure they ment depend 24/7 on them. I say nerf the living crap out of av, then you can modify out tanks. Deal?
**Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
932
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 11:05:00 -
[125] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Mikel Arias wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible I have seen a single tank taking fire of 2 swarms and my plasma cannon (yeah, yeah, the plasma is for shields) and keep going as if nothing had happened. Of course, he had hardeners on (at least one). Now, swarms are a pain in the ass for shield tanks, because once the shield is out there is not enough armor to take one hit. And armor tanks, without hardeners do get wracked My point, with hardeners everything is a lot easier, but without them... I get now when people complain about swarms, but instead of nerfing them, there should be an increase of general HP to tanks while reducing hardeners effectiveness or not allowing to fit more than one. Maybe both. This way a tank could take more damage, requiring more players attacking it with AV weapons. And with the modifications to the hardeners, this module could become a piece to use more tactically (engaging multiple AV players, another tank) instead of using them to get in and out just like that (godmode, I recall some saying that once). Im pretty sure it sounds crazy, but with a buff in HP, tanks could stop relying so much in the hardeners, but for this this module needs to be changed in the way it works (as I was saying). So, an armor tank could be around 6000 armor hp. and with 2500 shield hp, while the shield tanks could be around 7000 shield hp and 1500 armor hp. And the hardeners, besides allowing just one module, could be changed to a 30%. Crazy, yes, but I think it could be really interesting. Well that tells you something about swarms then. Tankers NEED hardeners to survive and that's sad. CCP said they wanted us to use hardeners, but I'm not sure they ment depend 24/7 on them. I say nerf the living crap out of av, then you can modify out tanks. Deal?
No it doesn't. It tells me that an armour tank with hardeners is God mode. Tanks should not be able to roll around at all times barely taking damage, if they did it would be stupid. This also tells you absolutely nothing about swarms, if your tank has any form of Hp you can drive away from a swarmer fairly easily. I will say though that tank HP shouldn't have been lowered like it was, it needs an increase and hardeners need a nerf.
Wanna play eve?
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HOLY PERFECTION
FINAL TRIBULATION
118
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 11:12:00 -
[126] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Mikel Arias wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible I have seen a single tank taking fire of 2 swarms and my plasma cannon (yeah, yeah, the plasma is for shields) and keep going as if nothing had happened. Of course, he had hardeners on (at least one). Now, swarms are a pain in the ass for shield tanks, because once the shield is out there is not enough armor to take one hit. And armor tanks, without hardeners do get wracked My point, with hardeners everything is a lot easier, but without them... I get now when people complain about swarms, but instead of nerfing them, there should be an increase of general HP to tanks while reducing hardeners effectiveness or not allowing to fit more than one. Maybe both. This way a tank could take more damage, requiring more players attacking it with AV weapons. And with the modifications to the hardeners, this module could become a piece to use more tactically (engaging multiple AV players, another tank) instead of using them to get in and out just like that (godmode, I recall some saying that once). Im pretty sure it sounds crazy, but with a buff in HP, tanks could stop relying so much in the hardeners, but for this this module needs to be changed in the way it works (as I was saying). So, an armor tank could be around 6000 armor hp. and with 2500 shield hp, while the shield tanks could be around 7000 shield hp and 1500 armor hp. And the hardeners, besides allowing just one module, could be changed to a 30%. Crazy, yes, but I think it could be really interesting. Well that tells you something about swarms then. Tankers NEED hardeners to survive and that's sad. CCP said they wanted us to use hardeners, but I'm not sure they ment depend 24/7 on them. I say nerf the living crap out of av, then you can modify out tanks. Deal? No it doesn't. It tells me that an armour tank with hardeners is God mode. Tanks should not be able to roll around at all times barely taking damage, if they did it would be stupid. This also tells you absolutely nothing about swarms, if your tank has any form of Hp you can drive away from a swarmer fairly easily. I will say though that tank HP shouldn't have been lowered like it was, it needs an increase and hardeners need a nerf.
Ok drive a prototype tank for yourself, and if the tank was running away he probably did take some damage then. I would be coming after you if you shot me with a plc. You may have over exadurated it a lot.
**Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 11:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:So, if the tank's become more readily available (wouldn't complain, more tanks = more wp's for anyone popping them), then it would be better balanced? Okay i'll admit that I skimmed some of what was said, so i'm only taking scarce notes, i'll re-read them properly later, but if the vehicles costed very little say, 40k for a GV.0? and maybe +2k for each mods used, it could be better balanced and less stressful? (this is the jist im getting here, cause we're seriously getting absolutely no where here, the more people go back and forth in this thread, the more things stay the same, eventually this will have all become absolutely moot, so we need to come up with a compromise that both sides can be happy/okay with). read the pilot threads, of all the arguments that they trot out, even knowing that the Devs do not consider it a balancing factor: ISK. Vehicles are not sustainable for any appreciable length of time unless you're swimming in stupid levels of it. As long as a militia HAV costs about as much to fit fully as a prototype fatty forge, we're never going to hear the end of this idiotic Screaming match merry-go-round. Do I think HAVs should be as cheap as say, a dropsuit? No. But I'm more of the opinion that pricing should be based on utility: If an HAV is overall 4x more effective than the equivalent solo dropsuit, and 4x as difficult to kill? It should probably cost in the neighborhood of 4x the cost of the dropsuit, not 10x.
Just to sort of echo this point, but from another angle (and wow this has been a ranty thread...)
Isk should never be a factor. What is a factor however is the level of modules needed to have viable running vehicle. This just naturally pushes up the price of any vehicle.
Where as you can compromise of dropsuit fits in accrodance with isk effeciency you cannot do it with vehicles. Hence the price of vehicles would always run up by comparision.
I dont care how much your vehicle cost. You know the price before you run it. But i do worry when protoype levels of modules is the minimum required.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
192
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 16:35:00 -
[128] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Mikel Arias wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible I have seen a single tank taking fire of 2 swarms and my plasma cannon (yeah, yeah, the plasma is for shields) and keep going as if nothing had happened. Of course, he had hardeners on (at least one). Now, swarms are a pain in the ass for shield tanks, because once the shield is out there is not enough armor to take one hit. And armor tanks, without hardeners do get wracked My point, with hardeners everything is a lot easier, but without them... I get now when people complain about swarms, but instead of nerfing them, there should be an increase of general HP to tanks while reducing hardeners effectiveness or not allowing to fit more than one. Maybe both. This way a tank could take more damage, requiring more players attacking it with AV weapons. And with the modifications to the hardeners, this module could become a piece to use more tactically (engaging multiple AV players, another tank) instead of using them to get in and out just like that (godmode, I recall some saying that once). Im pretty sure it sounds crazy, but with a buff in HP, tanks could stop relying so much in the hardeners, but for this this module needs to be changed in the way it works (as I was saying). So, an armor tank could be around 6000 armor hp. and with 2500 shield hp, while the shield tanks could be around 7000 shield hp and 1500 armor hp. And the hardeners, besides allowing just one module, could be changed to a 30%. Crazy, yes, but I think it could be really interesting. Well that tells you something about swarms then. Tankers NEED hardeners to survive and that's sad. CCP said they wanted us to use hardeners, but I'm not sure they ment depend 24/7 on them. I say nerf the living crap out of av, then you can modify out tanks. Deal? No it doesn't. It tells me that an armour tank with hardeners is God mode. Tanks should not be able to roll around at all times barely taking damage, if they did it would be stupid. This also tells you absolutely nothing about swarms, if your tank has any form of Hp you can drive away from a swarmer fairly easily. I will say though that tank HP shouldn't have been lowered like it was, it needs an increase and hardeners need a nerf.
Well, yeah, thats what I was saying (I tought it was clear). And yes, I dont think swarms need a nerf, but the tanks need a buf in terms of hp and then an modification to hardeners.
Of course, this way dropships are still left alone, so for this I would propose that one of the already existing dropships skills affected the damage taken by dropships, as the sentinels do. That way a dropship could be faced with swarms while the pilot still has a chance to fight, instead of running away as it is in the moment; a swarm hits you and if you dont fly away right then, then you are already death. |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 05:01:00 -
[129] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote: no user error,
The only real problem in my eyes.
Why my proposal is the smart fire/dumb fire mechanic for swarms.
- Press and release to instantly fire, scattering swarms in a roughly straight line
- Hold to smart fire. Same as current, but with a longer lock time.
Skilled players could aim the swarms effectively but with a chance to miss. Or alternatively, hold the lock and get the near 100% chance to hit.
Real CPM Platform
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HOLY PERFECTION
FINAL TRIBULATION
118
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 16:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote: no user error,
The only real problem in my eyes. Why my proposal is the smart fire/dumb fire mechanic for swarms. - Press and release to instantly fire, scattering swarms in a roughly straight line - Hold to smart fire. Same as current, but with a longer lock time. Skilled players could aim the swarms effectively but with a chance to miss. Or alternatively, hold the lock and get the near 100% chance to hit.
Exactly make you have to follow the target as it is airborne.
**Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
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