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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
   |
Posted - 2015.05.29 23:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Swarms have been a problem for ADS, DS, HAV, LAV, and HAV users for the longest time now. The problem is they have too much tracking distance, no user error, lock on distance, and too much rapid fire. I think CCP knows this but are too afraid to nerf it because tanks might be like Chromosome.
I thought swarms were meant to deter vehicles. Right now swarms are more used as a mass destruction weapon. One option would to decrease the lock on range to 100M and the following 150M. This would act as more of a deterrent rather than a supercharged mass driver.
Another option would be to decrease the fire speed and lock on. Make lockon 5 seconds and reload four seconds. The transition between each shot would be more than five seconds because the lock on is 5 seconds. Possibly a damage boost.
The last option would to add in a user error. Like a overheat, or make the lock on icon smaller. Like a dot that blends into everything like us tankers get. Then go from there and see how swarms preform. I would rather see forge guns out on the field.
Another tip for any AV`ers. Instead of excessive spam of swarms. Use the overpowered Lai Die AV grenade, and a plasma cannon. Trust me it does wonders.
Hope this helped a little, thanks for reading 07
OR we could just make it a laser sight, fires when you press the trigger and tracks the users aim (similar to S-RAW in battlefield 4), as for rapid fire, it'll only fire the next volley when ALL 4 missiles (and a 0.45 seconds to arm next volley) have either been destroyed (small blasters have a habit of destroying missiles) or have hit a target (be it a wall or something or other), with this a MAJOR DPS increase would be due and missile speed would have to go down due to the excessive speed (can't turn a missile if it's already got poor turning speed due to velocity). Would this benefit your god tiering vehicles?
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 00:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
*Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game...
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 01:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like the idea of slowing down the volley rate- the range can't be nerfed too much as they're caldari, and need range.
LAVs actually survive pretty well against swarms: Unless they're in a flat, open area, they're small and fast enough that most missiles hit odd objects or hills before reaching the LAV.
Wouldn't need range (theorectically speaking) if they work as guided missiles, afterwards base their stats off of the breach mass driver but with a smaller splash radius across the board (2.20, as each missile will be in vicinity of the intended target), and there you got yourselves a new swarm launcher that takes "SKILL" (you whiny little scrub buckets).
RANT: If you have complaints about being killed by swarm's, how does a logi feel when they have their rep tools out and cant fire back? You think you should have ALL the abillity to bash someone into the ground just because your better than them, because your inside a god machine. Well let me ask you this - How many times has video games made you kill a god? Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy, Destiny, (probably tons but I can't remember em), suck it up, buy more of it, and try to kill it back... If that doesn't work, give up playing as vehicles and start logi-ing people, (everybody makes mistakes, own up to it instead of coming here to complain).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 16:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Pretty much inapplicable analogies completely and totally missing the point.
Reason behind swarm launchers not getting touched is because half these people aren't competent enough to actually pick one up against vehicles, if the blues were more intelligent and decided to run av and smg fits THEN you'd see a nerf, and the whole point of the rant is that despite his complaint he would've ended up like the assault dropship with the tanks, you know what rattati did, it would've been a carbon copy and tanks would be FAR worst than they would have been any other patch.
"Being tooth and nail about it" as rattati said is why the ADS was nerfed so hard.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 19:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:bastille123 wrote:its useless...... this comunity is to biased in medium/light suits to actually ever implement what it truly means HEAVY in general...
whenever i talk to anybody about swarms being too powerful for being an light weapon against heavy vehicules in general is just get mocked at that i want invinceble tanks....
or when i complain about why does 80 FREAKING GJ railguns has no splash damage compared to light weponry like PLC or why a gal centinel is able to survie a direct shot of particle cannons they say to me that is perfectly fine
or when i use a forgegun i know that compared to plasma cannons (that for some reason has better splash and damage per shot DESPITE being an light weapon)
And if you still think that the people in this game doesnt hate heavy assets(sentinels/HAVs) let me remind you that:
1: HMG has no viable operation (it used to have one)
2: Useless standart forgeguns (no splash/less damage/more charge time) and dont tell me the ``use the assult one-¦-¦ there just have to be some advantages that the assult variant doenst have otherwise just remove the normal one.
3: tanks in general has no bonuses whatsoever and even so, they incresed the sp requirements for them (thanks for the 1M sp steal!)
4: I dont have to say much about how crap the large missile turrets are compared to what they used to be (and its funny that with the whole; ``we will make turrets a lot more powerful at the expense of an ammo sistem-¦-¦, we have even worse large missile lauchers than ever before)
but meh whatever the heck this just my opinion tho
its amazing everywhere people keep saying the same things (and i agree with it) over and over 'swarm OP, tank too squishy, useless, but why CCP doesnt make a REAL balance on this ? the game is out for 2 years now right ? why ?? should be obvious by now that players WANT better tank !
No blue berry logically busts out AV, despite what it looks like, too few are actually skilled into it (in favor of the PLC and FG), and armor hardeners doing 30% dmg redux on a GV.0 makes the tanks god tier unless an aldins starts wacking em.
Summary:Lack of Community Logic, few players skilled into them, and hardener OPness...
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 19:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:We need hardeners or we would all be dead. If they dont buff or do something to tanks im not running them for a while.
So 8 guys should switch AV to kill you? Tank's are fine it's hard to hit when its around corners (a tactic NOBODY USES) you can speed in and out of an area almost as fast as a jeep, you can kill AV before they get a good chance to fire another set of swarms AND HEY, NEWS FLASH, how about you stop trying to be Zod and actually rely on your allies to cover you, AS INTENDED.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.05.31 04:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote: how about you stop trying to be Zod and actually rely on your allies to cover you, AS INTENDED. im using tank in almost every game (almost) and in 9/10 your allies DONT CARE about you (i cant blame them, we are useless ...) i mean why would they "help, save us" ? 1 : we cant cap 2 : if another tank show up, they can take care by themselve 3 : we dont offer any buff too infantry 4 : and if we try to be a wall to protect them from incoming fire, be sure a swarm will be there to tke care of us (back to 2) to be back to your point "rely on your allies", i will add INFANTRY SHOULD TRY TO TAKE CARE OF US !! (how many time, i was being shot, with a infantry next to me, just running away doing hes life, and me losing my tank just because he dont wanted (cared) helping a bit ! PS: did you know that the logistic thingy, can rep us (the tank) ? did you knew about that ? well not many know about that, because logi never came to our aid ...
So, swarm's should get a nerf because of EVERYONE'S incompetence? Yes there are rep tools that can fix a tank, honestly I thought about taking one out myself, but since I don't have min logi I personally felt redundant and pointless to use one, On another matter, you never asked ANYONE to rep you, most tankers don't bother asking for help because they feel they're above the infantry, but infantry constantly proves you wrong, you want tanks to be strong, take hits? Ask a logi from your corp., otherwise, stop trying nerf something that requires more than 1 person to do, unless you yourself are stuck in an area you shouldn't be in, or trying to become more powerful because you feel underwhelmed, sniper's can't help hack, be more helpful to the team cause of the fact that suits are so squishy without proper tanking, why should you?
Give me 10 FULLY understandable reasons, reasons that I or many others may agree upon with you (not I cause I might just not agree with you period unless you've got something that's fair, also the individuals that agree with you, must not be tankers themselves, people you asked to comment or those from your corp., they must be infantry, also duely not that even if you do write something down, given the fair point's I made above a buff or nerf may never come, but then again, that's why we brainstorm).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 04:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:
So, swarm's should get a nerf because of EVERYONE'S incompetence?
nice to see that you said "everyone", because yes EVERYONE is against the actual SWARM mechanics im a solo player so ...
Game's not for solo play, requires a squad, requires you to know what you want and want to do, you play, ask, and get it done, this is DUST 514 not TANKYSIT 514, explore the possibilities, be smart, fight smart. (And when I said everyone, I meant anyone not intelligent enough to understand that nobody can do thing's alone, as stated above).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
37
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Posted - 2015.05.31 05:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:was editing when you answeared,
and stating that a FREE TO PLAY GAME !!!!!!
have to be played ABSOLUTLY with a corporation a things ITS WRONG !!!!
BF dont need to play with friend or any "pre made squad"
same as planete side 2, just stating "your alone, that your problem" is just wrong
in this world there are many different people, and same with play style
if this game really tend to go that way, well i cant see any futur for it
Lol and now you explain why I still play BF, but that's not what CCP and devs intended and (off topic here) that's where shield's are( EDIT:refering to your "tank is ****" comment), (back on topic) Swarm Launcher's have inverted damage profile and do massive damage to shield's than armor, its only because of proficiency that armor takes any notable damage (not just damage mods), SL range in my opinion is just fine, drop ships and tanks can kill us faster than we can kill them, provided we don't ambush you first, and your not using a scanner (really annoying), sure the RoF is a bother, but the finnicky lock on system makes up for that (I can hardly spam it, so i'm not like most people), player skill works more based on positioning, angle, and knowing how to efficiently move (when you got a lock-on if your quick enough, move the lock to the right, release, look at target again, lock on, release, now you have 2 volleys within seconds of each other).
And honestly infantry are in the same boat, logi can't repair and shoot at the same time, sniper's can't look to their left or right when aiming, players cant fire back when hacking, so, yeah, and counter measure, armor hardener there you go.
One thing to remember, if SL's get nerfed, vehicles get nerfed too to properly allow SL's the kill, which means more FG one shots of closed beta (a possibility that would seem very likely, I can definantly see we haven't learned from the ADS pilots).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
43
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 22:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Dova Vojak wrote:Weapons like Plasma Cannons and Forges are real vehicals killers. Haaahahaha! Oh that's funny... I think we all needed that. But really, no. Right now FGs are awful except against dumb shield tankers and maybe a mediocre pilot. PLCs only threaten bad shield tankers unless you're a Kubo-level PLC user. Armour HAVs are high invincible against almost anything; Shield HAVs are resilient but killable with fairly heavy investment; DSs are WP pi+¦atas for Swarms and FGs, but rarely killed if the pilot knows to flee immediately upon any kind of damage. Swarms are the most accessible, most applicable weapons due to most effective damage application (fire and forget) and similar (generally superior) DPS to the other AV weapons. Speaking from an ADS point of view, Swarms are uncounterable unless they launch at you while you're 40m away and looking directly at them - you're forced to flee before you can localise and engage them.
My CEO has popped plenty of armor tank's (proto tank's require more than 1 person generally, which mean's team work which is why I think swarm's are fine), dropships aren't tanky by no mean's, if they were, they'd be like armor tank's and simply stay in 1 spot tanking swarm shots and then pull back when their at half armor, and more than likely after killing 3 of our boys or more.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
43
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Posted - 2015.06.01 00:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:My CEO has popped plenty of armor tank's (proto tank's require more than 1 person generally, which mean's team work which is why I think swarm's are fine), dropships aren't tanky by no mean's, if they were, they'd be like armor tank's and simply stay in 1 spot tanking swarm shots and then pull back when their at half armor, and more than likely after killing 3 of our boys or more. Popped armour HAVs with Swarms? Kinda emphasises the point doesn't it? And DSs aren't tanky enough to do anything but flee once they get hit by Swarms - the point isn't that they can't tank damage, but that they have no other response. Flee or die; at least with a Forge/PLC you can evade and maybe fight back, but there's no evading Swarms, it's just take a bunch of damage while futilely trying to find them then drop dead - unless you fled immediately. Edit: point being that it's not so much about the damage but about the application. HAVs aren't in a terrible place (barring the obvious aHAVs being nearly immune most of the time, which most people recognise) and FGs could use some help, but Swarms are the kick-in-the-teeth to balancing because they have near perfect application when used with half a brain.
But HAV's can still survive, more than 1 tank can be employed on the battlefield, maybe you just don't want to emply any real tactic's, like in battlefield 3-4, you have to be tactful in your placement, you have to watch out against JAVELIN's and AT mine's, (yes I know you have countermeasures in BF but without their use you'd still have to be tactful). I'm not like most people who'd tell you to "git good" that's pure ignorance, instead, explore possibilities, tactic's, converse with infantry, get them to help you, it's obvious you can't go solo if your being beaten so... "easily", then do what it take's to survive, squad up with the people.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
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Posted - 2015.06.01 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. Trust me i am NOT a bad tanker. Ive taken on 3 gunlogis wlth 1 of them being blaster and the other two rail. In fact ill prove it, lets 1V1 Qsync and youll see just how bad of a tanker i am. Im stating one ******* officer swarm can rip a new hole in my tank. Its really bad in PC. There is always 2 aldins and officer swarms. Its terrible. In pubs every person commando in the game has swarms. And swarms are op. Let me guess youve never tanked in a proto tank. Get Good and know your facts before you come back. Then you can make an adequate augment.
Right, officer swarm's, that deal the exact same damage as proto swarm's but has increased range 200 (from 175, ammo (by 1), and increase lock time 20? (of 40 I believe I forget). The real damage comes from FG's and PLC's i've seen them do massive damage to vehicles plenty of times, especially assault FG's, however, your stating that 2 or more people are taking out AV to kill YOU, I don't see a problem with that, tactic's and teamwork go a long way.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.01 20:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
anguel omura wrote:i love when people say "ask infantry to help you"
just a sec ago finished a game with a proto gunnlogi
it took to the guy 5 sec arround to kill me with a swarm (had hardener extender and booster)
oh yes
i was behind thousand of teammate, with 2 gunner, (so not alone at all !!)
lets say i requested help, (i did) and my teamate didnt ignore me (they did ignore me ..., well not the first time)
how can you defend, help a tank that can be destroyed in 5 sec ?
and when in trouble try to flee with the WONDERFULL control ...
im just getting tired, of people who doesnt admit that there is something wrong with the SWARM mechanic
Okay, so i'll just state fact's and honest to god, apologize, I did NOT know you were rocking shield tank (though you may have mentioned it before), are you aware that swarms deal inverted profile damage of +40/S and -40/A? That's why shield tank's can be hurt by swarm's so easily, it just needs to be reverted back to being armor again, and then shield tanks can take swarm rounds, again I really apologize for thinking you were an armor tank. (Also duely note, that any nerf to SL's mean's greater inefficiency against armor tanked vehicles, thus my reluctance for a nerf and defense of SL, of course i'll still defend it, for as long as the armor tanks can survive 3 guys with AV). Also sorry for double post.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
46
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Posted - 2015.06.02 19:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Al the destroyer wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you got to be a bad tanker to lose one to a single AVer. Use your environment and modules and you would never get taken out by a single infantryman. you don't see dropsuits sitting out in the open expecting to tank all damage thrown at them, why should vehicles expect that?
HAV DPS against dropsuits vs AV DPS against HAV EHP. Tanks are still OP. Get in a armor tank with a blaster and stop complaining like all the real/good tankers. You must be a noob here tanks are meant to be indestructible DUH!! A/V should just make pretty lights and flare balls to distract tankers and ADS!!! That way infantry can run indoors!
If tank's are indestructible, then infantry should be just as indestructible. Otherwise is not fair to the people. 
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
You are yet to provide a reason for swarms being OP as well, Fire rate isnt an arguement against tanks. At near max lock range, its gonna take about 3-4 seconds to hit you, this is only a factor below 75m, after that you should be able to get away.
Swarms aren't OP... They're broken. People who don't use vehicles will never understand this, because they don't see the unfair way the game works for vehicles. If vehicles didn't render until they were within 40 meters or so, sure swarms wouldn't have that much of an advantage (apart from only having to aim vaguely in the direction they want to fire.) Also when a vehicle shoots at you, you know it's shooting at you, half the time swarms don't even make a noise until right before they hit you... You might see it coming, but you can bet your arse that's the second lot as you'll feel the first plow into your hull long before it gets even mildly close. Every other weapon in the game works within reason, but swarms are broken crap that ruin it for anyone who wants to use vehicles... Just replace the glitchy shite with something that fires like a normal bloody weapon, so that when the person firing it isn't rendering, at least there's a chance it will miss... Or fix the blasted rendering issues (unlikely.) Yes swarms are broken i agree. Their not nessesaraly op just that there too easy to use at no user errors.
And it's absolutely horrible that swarm's can't GO AROUND BUILDINGS, OBJECT'S OR MOUNTAINS, yes completely broken, no user error, even though when you fire it, it's like it's absolutely broken, with no error in the user, just plenty of error in the missiles themselves, completely broken... (If your daft, i'm making sarcastic remark's while exposing the "no user error" at the same time, it's in the big bold letter's, your welcome).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
So how does this help Tankers and ADS' that already go 10+ & 0? Seriously bro, your crying cause you don't know when to GTFO the place? It's been like this since early closed beta and CCP never tried to fix it, secondly the only warning we get is nothing when a dropship pilot or gunner starts shooting at us, a railgun or missile tank could be too far way for us on radar and still don't get warning for that, we don't get a warning when a non cloak scout is running up behind us, so really how much do you intend to break before AV is shoved out the door? If your not willing to pay the price, do something else
There was more but the rest got glitched out on PS3, pretty much stated that numerous things a broken in this game, 500 melee damage, cal stats, fact we get blown up by invisa tanks, cause their using rail and missile, etc etc, also stated, no dev or cpm, no support aside from us regulars, also hit detection, so yeah, no one thing should be fixed before everything else, and vehicles vs AV is one of them. Not trying to make you lose hope here, but CCP has shown us their affinity for a lobby shooter, this is what you get, and in life, you get what you get.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
47
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Posted - 2015.06.04 18:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
The critical issue with this game, not getting rewarded for properly skilling into an item, weapon, or suit. Like I said before, unless there's a DEV or CPM involved, none of these things are going to get properly fixed, (it'd also help if we knew he was packing 2/3 weapons on his person, like visually, but you know how this game is).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
50
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Posted - 2015.06.05 14:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly.
There's too many cod boy's playing this game thats why, not enough people who actually wanna use tactic's, I mean where else do you get these people throwing RE's everywhere, same damn thing in COD happens all the time, even if they want to fix swarms, it's not gonna solve anything, cause guess what? Their just gonna make something else powerful, FOTM AV, would you rather have broken swarms that follow you, that can hit a building if you move tactfully? or would you rather have an AV weapon that 1 shots you regardless of how far you are? regardless if you have 10k+ EHP it'd still one shot you, sure there'd be a chance to miss, but we're talking GV.0's here with 10k+ EHP and hardeners on, and still get one shotted, or do you people never think of the consequences of your requests?
If everything thats been written in this thread has not forced you to actually start a channel for vehicles/gunners/teamwork, then maybe you should start one.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
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Posted - 2015.06.05 17:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I feel like I'm the only person on this damn planet that just wants vehicles to involve more teamwork.
Part of the reason I didn't really like Assault Dropships when they were first shown is I wanted a proper gunship with a dedicated pilot and gunner, same as I wanted HAVs to have a dedicated driver and gunner.
In that case, with the vehicle requiring a minimum investment of 2 players, requiring multiple players to destroy them would just make sense, and it would require the 2 players manning the vehicle to use teamwork just like the people trying to destroy them have to.
But no, because that's "forcing teamwork" and it will make everyone leave the game instantly. There's too many cod boy's playing this game thats why, not enough people who actually wanna use tactic's, I mean where else do you get these people throwing RE's everywhere, same damn thing in COD happens all the time, even if they want to fix swarms, it's not gonna solve anything, cause guess what? Their just gonna make something else powerful, FOTM AV, would you rather have broken swarms that follow you, that can hit a building if you move tactfully? or would you rather have an AV weapon that 1 shots you regardless of how far you are? regardless if you have 10k+ EHP it'd still one shot you, sure there'd be a chance to miss, but we're talking GV.0's here with 10k+ EHP and hardeners on, and still get one shotted, or do you people never think of the consequences of your requests? If everything thats been written in this thread has not forced you to actually start a channel for vehicles/gunners/teamwork, then maybe you should start one. Actually it comes down to the game being really boring, and if you made pilots only able to be glorified chauffeurs, it would be incredibly boring. You would literally just sit there all game listening for swarms and having to turn off your music to listen to some idiot yelling how he can't see the enemy, or you getting pissed off because he's shooting the wrong thing. When infantry players require two people to run their dropsuits, vehicles can require two people to be run too. You can already solo vehicles if you're patient and not bad.
I'm assuming that heavy and their logi's don't count? Just saying... 
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Of course, you do, how else will 1k armor suits survive 5 guys with rail rifles, or combat rifles, or both. Or how would Logi's get their war point's, synergy man, like how someone make's an accidental innuendo joke in RvB and tucker goes "BOW CHICA WOW WOW!". It's common sense its not a fighter jet (okay joking aside, yes heavies need logi's to survive, therefore it takes 2 players to make 1 suit function as is stated above in your post).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
I see... So, uhh, you wanna like, drive me to the front of alpha so I can go for a quick hack? If your a good tanker, I might just let you take a few kill's (i'm sorry I can't resist this statement). Listen dude, it's just gonna come out as losing 1 AV for the other, you nerf swarm's then everyones gonna rock FG and PLC, two weapons that not only kill vehicles, but can 1 shot everyone in the game, you'd only end up ruining the game for everyone, especially vehicles, I mean seriously, how many people skilled into FG's? Can you just imagine a full game of 16 players, all heavies rocking FG's? And having used them for so long, be impossibly accurate with them? (You still haven't answered my question: Have you not learned of consequence's that everything bring's?).
Edit: I mean for real's just imagine it for like 5 second's, everyone getting plowed by PLC's and FG's (bow chica wow wow). (<< couldn't resist this edit).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
51
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Posted - 2015.06.05 18:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ahh I see now
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
In that case. Carry on.
I know exactly what i'm talking about, you always trade in 1 thing for another, give and take, so let's say we give vehicle user's what they want? What's the price? What's the equivalent exchange? You think that vehicle's would remain untouched if swarm's get nerfed? Or get "fixed"? There is always cause and effect, like rattati nerfing all the dropships when the time came for a rebalance or "fix" for them. Before you want something done, like a deal, you must sign the contract, you must lose something you favor, something you love, or make up the price with something else or other, something not as expensive, not as endearing, real question is, are you willing to pay the price for what you want? Do you think it would be worth it? That's the game you play, this isn't maplestory where there is little consequence to your action's, not Halo or CoD where skill over takes a weapons weaknesses, again, you want a nerf for a weapon that supposedly take's very little skill to use? Simply be prepared for CCP to take just as much if not more from the vehicles in return.
Nobody ever get's what they want in this game. That's what 2 year's of playing this game has taught me.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
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Posted - 2015.06.09 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Actually, I just had an idea; Why not have a module that increases the enemies lock on time? Wouldn't work on grenades since they'd be so close anyhow, but if that were the case there wouldn't be a need for any real changes to the swarm's now would there?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
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Posted - 2015.06.09 20:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming.
Charge up time on missiles are actually pretty stupid, no missile does this, other than that, have it like a standard RPG that fires 4 round's instead of 1? Fine... but i'll expect alot of damage to come from it, just like a PLC, it's only fair...
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
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Posted - 2015.06.09 21:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:It's ironic Zan that you have based your entire opinion of vehicle pilots on the worlds an actions of one player than even most other vehicle pilots loath to include in vehicle discussion, not because his experience or ideals are wrong but because his attitude is incredibly poor and not wholly constructive.
I think we can all agree that team would could and should be a part of HAV and vehicle combat but not at the cost of core functionality of the vehicle. As Dust Fiend has said dividing the gunnery and pilot roles for vehicles like the Assault Dropship and HAV relegates them from being an enjoyable career choices to as Dust Fiend states 'glorified chauffeurs'.
We can argue about what the core reasons vehicles become unbalanced are on a build by build basis and would eventually reach the same bloody stale mate we always reach with neither side giving ground and submitting to nerfs. In this case however while I like Mobius' suggestion I do not believe it is the optimal path to vehicle balance only the optimal path to creating a game in which more infantry function on the field and vehicles are the irregular choice no one wants to commit riflemen to operating, in much the same way it is on most maps.
I'm also astounded by the double standard that many infantrymen lay at the feet of vehicle pilots insinuating that a pilot scoring say 10/0 or 12/1 or the like is somehow vastly different or less fair than another infantryman finishing the game with 15/2 or 22/0. You can scream 1 for 1 at me all day but when an AVer is good enough at their job to kill me then they will kill me and not sooner.
Said it once, i'll say it again, I want fairness for both side's, and fact is, most people are too dumb to run vehicle's and some are too dumb to use anti vehicles, my entire opinion is never going to actually be on the vehicles, it'll be on the player that uses them, a player define's vehicles, not the suit's (double standards I know). Most of the time when vehicles go +10/0 it's because of skill, or the fact his enemies are too dumb and scrubbish to actually take him out, i've used swarm's and literally many if not all the time vehicles have either come out on top, or ran out of my line of sight, being smart, being skilled (same case can be made for infantry, some people simply don't know how to take them out) , that's why i'm against swarm nerfing, unless you make them dumbfire and give them the PLC treatment, it'll never be fixed, and if vehicles tankers be smart, and skilled, there won't ever be a need for a nerf to swarm's, because swarm's will always be out played (until you hit a wall that is).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
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Posted - 2015.06.10 17:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
So, if the tank's become more readily available (wouldn't complain, more tanks = more wp's for anyone popping them), then it would be better balanced? Okay i'll admit that I skimmed some of what was said, so i'm only taking scarce notes, i'll re-read them properly later, but if the vehicles costed very little say, 40k for a GV.0? and maybe +2k for each mods used, it could be better balanced and less stressful? (this is the jist im getting here, cause we're seriously getting absolutely no where here, the more people go back and forth in this thread, the more things stay the same, eventually this will have all become absolutely moot, so we need to come up with a compromise that both sides can be happy/okay with).
Edit: And so we're clear, the 40k a gv.0 is just an examplatory number, not the actual number i'd set it at.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 19:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Terry Webber wrote:Forgive me if this has already been suggested but what if the swarm launcher works a little more like the plasma cannon? It could have a brief charge-up and, instead of a single projectile, launch several rockets that stay in the direction the launcher was aimed at. This would give pilots a chance to dodge the rockets when they see them coming. Charge up time on missiles are actually pretty stupid, no missile does this, other than that, have it like a standard RPG that fires 4 round's instead of 1? Fine... but i'll expect alot of damage to come from it, just like a PLC, it's only fair... All right, no charge-up. No need to be so bitter.
Too many caldari weapons have charge spool, and if the missile launcher turrets don't have charge spool, swarms shouldn't have a charge spool (save for the lock on time). You want people to use the SL with skill, give it the PLC/Mass driver treatment, or else we're gonna sit here in these forums for the next 3 months getting nothing done.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Because it won't come with lock on, it'll end up being some what slower than the average missile turret, and will apparently require "skill" that everyone b****es about, you trade in 1 thing for another, thats fair game, right?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
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Posted - 2015.06.10 21:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
dropships have to slow down to fire properly, in that time, you strike, besides, I did say some what slower than a missile turret.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 14:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome
So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak.
As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Eliminate splash from swarms; make them dumbfire like any projectile weapon ( 4 missiles at a time still so it looks cool) and have the swarms missiles jave the same mechanic as av grenades that magnetize towards the target at a certain proximity.
There. Included skills into the swarms without eliminating the ease of use. Eliminated or dimished abuse against players since it has no splash and kept it cool with 4 missiles comin out the front so it still looks and souns boss.
You're welcome So, what about the missile turret? Should that gun's splash damage be removed as well? I'd rather not have a carbon copy of the HAV missile turret, it's explosive radius is uncharacteristically weak. As for the rest of it, I like it, AV grenade style SL, sound's doable, but the amount of damage should make up for its dumbfire mechanic, the fact that is wouldn't have splash damage also needs to be taken into account, and the fact that it's skill is tied to lock-on, it'll need a skill to compensate for whatever it may lack, possibly missile velocity. Bastards would have to go a lot faster to be viable at any range other than "Just use the AHMG."
10% missile speed per level?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
67
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Posted - 2015.06.11 23:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Well, no, I say 10% cause they might end up with splash damage, so it'll give dodging room for infantry.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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