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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
92
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Posted - 2015.05.29 17:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swarms have been a problem for ADS, DS, HAV, LAV, and HAV users for the longest time now. The problem is they have too much tracking distance, no user error, lock on distance, and too much rapid fire. I think CCP knows this but are too afraid to nerf it because tanks might be like Chromosome.
I thought swarms were meant to deter vehicles. Right now swarms are more used as a mass destruction weapon. One option would to decrease the lock on range to 100M and the following 150M. This would act as more of a deterrent rather than a supercharged mass driver.
Another option would be to decrease the fire speed and lock on. Make lockon 5 seconds and reload four seconds. The transition between each shot would be more than five seconds because the lock on is 5 seconds. Possibly a damage boost.
The last option would to add in a user error. Like a overheat, or make the lock on icon smaller. Like a dot that blends into everything like us tankers get. Then go from there and see how swarms preform. I would rather see forge guns out on the field.
Another tip for any AV`ers. Instead of excessive spam of swarms. Use the overpowered Lai Die AV grenade, and a plasma cannon. Trust me it does wonders.
Hope this helped a little, thanks for reading 07
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.29 19:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Are you implying that AV players should learn to aim, instead of having their WP arrive by Fed-Ex Air?
Blasphemy
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 19:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
yes the weapon should take more skill. My 1.2 million dollar tank should not be taken out by a hail of swarms.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for looking at this 07
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
As somebody who foolishly invested millions into AV weapons, I am sick of having to lock-on.
Lemme fire the damn thing when I want, at the target I want. Too many times have my attempts at an HAV suppository been thwarted due to annoying lock-on and fire mechanics. Yes. What I want requires swarms to be re-imagined. [Edit for clarification: What I want is more akin to a Caldary RPG launcher with multiple rockets fired at once, with damage balanced for AV and whatever fool aims it at infantry.]
Better for me.
Better for pilots.
Better for fun.
CCP... make like Nike and "Just Do It."
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Swarms have been a problem for ADS, DS, HAV, LAV, and HAV users for the longest time now. The problem is they have too much tracking distance, no user error, lock on distance, and too much rapid fire. I think CCP knows this but are too afraid to nerf it because tanks might be like Chromosome.
I thought swarms were meant to deter vehicles. Right now swarms are more used as a mass destruction weapon. One option would to decrease the lock on range to 100M and the following 150M. This would act as more of a deterrent rather than a supercharged mass driver.
Another option would be to decrease the fire speed and lock on. Make lockon 5 seconds and reload four seconds. The transition between each shot would be more than five seconds because the lock on is 5 seconds. Possibly a damage boost.
The last option would to add in a user error. Like a overheat, or make the lock on icon smaller. Like a dot that blends into everything like us tankers get. Then go from there and see how swarms preform. I would rather see forge guns out on the field.
Another tip for any AV`ers. Instead of excessive spam of swarms. Use the overpowered Lai Die AV grenade, and a plasma cannon. Trust me it does wonders.
Hope this helped a little, thanks for reading 07
OR we could just make it a laser sight, fires when you press the trigger and tracks the users aim (similar to S-RAW in battlefield 4), as for rapid fire, it'll only fire the next volley when ALL 4 missiles (and a 0.45 seconds to arm next volley) have either been destroyed (small blasters have a habit of destroying missiles) or have hit a target (be it a wall or something or other), with this a MAJOR DPS increase would be due and missile speed would have to go down due to the excessive speed (can't turn a missile if it's already got poor turning speed due to velocity). Would this benefit your god tiering vehicles?
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is it doesn't fix anything. There still is not user error in it
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
534
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, AKA the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
93
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
534
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
So you're saying that spending 1.2 million ISK justifies taking 2 players away from the enemy team and they're still not allowed to kill you?
Is Spkr your main?
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, AKA the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
2
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Posted - 2015.05.29 23:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
completly agree with this, swarm are way too OP actually
- high firing rate
- hit REALLY hard
-locking range
etc etc etc definitly something need to be done |
HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
96
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible So you're saying that spending 1.2 million ISK justifies taking 2 players away from the enemy team and they're still not allowed to kill you? Is Spkr your main?
UHH.. my GV.0 should not take only 2 swarmer to take out. It should take an organized squad or group of 2 AVers. NOT just 2 lazy potato eating bitches.
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
540
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:UHH.. my GV.0 should not take only 2 swarmer to take out. It should take an organized squad or group of 2 AVers. NOT just 2 lazy potato eating bitches.
Agreed, something as valuable as a Gv.0 shold not be taken down easily by lower tier AV.
But the problem with requiring more than one person to keep you busy is that it takes away people who should be capturing and defending points away and instead are chasing a tank, contributing nothing to the game as the tank refuses to die or recall. Does that make sense? It's bad for balance.
And as a swarm user I do think swarms have far too much DPS for the lack of skill required. It should be something weak but constant, I'm thinking less damage and larger clip size.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, also known as the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
What is the point here?
CCP likes AV. They love having toons losing expensive gear. And to only pick up 50WP if they kill the guy doing the deed. If the ganker spends the minimal amount the lulz is heightened. CCP loves that stuff. New Eden is based on it.
Ganking, it's a thang, a New Eden thang. 
Three Lai Dai AV (that hit) will pop nearly everything. A Wyrm Swarmer will do a fast job so run or die, the Aldin FG can two shots many (with a two second charge), Jihad Jeeps, packed RE stuck to the vehicle. All these variations only mean one thing. This much too logical discussion is just verbal wack-a-mole.
Regardless of what you come up with, CCP will trump it with PRO, Proficiency III or Officer weapons thus negating all your plans.
All the suggestions in the world will not circumvent CCP's plan.
Their plan is to burn vehicles, leaving drivers raging, AV crowing and ISK drained.
Welcome to New Eden. 
Read my signature.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh hi, I'm here with popcorn to watch the pilot circlejerk.
That and giggle while you all run around in circles missing the point of what the problems with swarms actually are.
Or willfully ignoring them.
But by all means, continue
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
Right?! I mean, I can also get behind better balance as is, but more use of vehicles should be encouraged - I enjoy destroying vehicles with my RailBus, but it costs 350k+ a pop and can go down in a second. If things died more and cost less it'd be more enjoyable for everyone.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible
*Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game...
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary
7
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Posted - 2015.05.30 00:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like the idea of slowing down the volley rate- the range can't be nerfed too much as they're caldari, and need range.
LAVs actually survive pretty well against swarms: Unless they're in a flat, open area, they're small and fast enough that most missiles hit odd objects or hills before reaching the LAV.
Aloha snackbar
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.05.30 01:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I like the idea of slowing down the volley rate- the range can't be nerfed too much as they're caldari, and need range.
LAVs actually survive pretty well against swarms: Unless they're in a flat, open area, they're small and fast enough that most missiles hit odd objects or hills before reaching the LAV.
Wouldn't need range (theorectically speaking) if they work as guided missiles, afterwards base their stats off of the breach mass driver but with a smaller splash radius across the board (2.20, as each missile will be in vicinity of the intended target), and there you got yourselves a new swarm launcher that takes "SKILL" (you whiny little scrub buckets).
RANT: If you have complaints about being killed by swarm's, how does a logi feel when they have their rep tools out and cant fire back? You think you should have ALL the abillity to bash someone into the ground just because your better than them, because your inside a god machine. Well let me ask you this - How many times has video games made you kill a god? Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy, Destiny, (probably tons but I can't remember em), suck it up, buy more of it, and try to kill it back... If that doesn't work, give up playing as vehicles and start logi-ing people, (everybody makes mistakes, own up to it instead of coming here to complain).
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.30 02:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side.
Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot.
If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one.
Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pretty much inapplicable analogies completely and totally missing the point.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 04:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucky for you, I have the answer here!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203814&find=unread
!--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
97
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Posted - 2015.05.30 05:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible *Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game...
Not more survivable, just two swarmers should not ever take down a GV.0 of that tier. Plus its a tank, it relates nothing to dropsuits. You have to have a new "mind" in looking at vehicles.
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anguel omura
COMBAT DELTA TEAM
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 10:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. NOT WHAT IM SAYING. im saying my tank should not be as easily taken out. by 2 swarmers if ima GV.0. Thats all im saying, im not trying to be invensible *Invincible, and hey I die in a caldari ck.0 assault, why should a tank get to be so much more survivable? That's like impossible in this game... Not more survivable, just two swarmers should not ever take down a GV.0 of that tier. Plus its a tank, it relates nothing to dropsuits. You have to have a new "mind" in looking at vehicles.
i completly agree with you !!!
today its WAY too easy to take down a tank !!
exemple : GOT KILLED BY A KNIFE !!!! any logic in this for you ? by a knife !!
in every game that involve tank, when your by walk and come in front off him, you run for your life,
in dust when your by walk and come in front off a tank, you rush to it, shouting "JUICY KILL COME TO MAMA" ... |
Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
548
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot. If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one. Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****.
I see you're one for slippery slopes. Those are counter-productive.
If you don't like my idea, don't be obnoxious about it please.
[58.8m SP - Next skill: Nova Knife Prof. 3]
"I'll call in a Quafe LAV, also known as the Swaggin' Wagon." -CeeJ Mantis
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bastille123
20
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
its useless...... this comunity is to biased in medium/light suits to actually ever implement what it truly means HEAVY in general...
whenever i talk to anybody about swarms being too powerful for being an light weapon against heavy vehicules in general is just get mocked at that i want invinceble tanks....
or when i complain about why does 80 FREAKING GJ railguns has no splash damage compared to light weponry like PLC or why a gal centinel is able to survie a direct shot of particle cannons they say to me that is perfectly fine
or when i use a forgegun i know that compared to plasma cannons (that for some reason has better splash and damage per shot DESPITE being an light weapon)
And if you still think that the people in this game doesnt hate heavy assets(sentinels/HAVs) let me remind you that:
1: HMG has no viable operation (it used to have one)
2: Useless standart forgeguns (no splash/less damage/more charge time) and dont tell me the ``use the assult one-¦-¦ there just have to be some advantages that the assult variant doenst have otherwise just remove the normal one.
3: tanks in general has no bonuses whatsoever and even so, they incresed the sp requirements for them (thanks for the 1M sp steal!)
4: I dont have to say much about how crap the large missile turrets are compared to what they used to be (and its funny that with the whole; ``we will make turrets a lot more powerful at the expense of an ammo sistem-¦-¦, we have even worse large missile lauchers than ever before)
but meh whatever the heck this just my opinion tho
no matter how good an online game may be. if the comunity is crap the game is crap
-ghost from closed beta-
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:"I spent 1.2 million ISK, so I shouldn't die, ever."
Honestly just make tanks the same price as dropsuits and make them soloable. The imbalance of power being validated by ISK cost is getting old and it doesn't benefit either side. Don't forget to make sure that dropsuits are deployed by RDVs, and that you can only refil ammo at a supply depot. If you wish to change suit, you'll need to recall and wait for an RDV to bring you a new one. Oh, and watch your corners, collision damage is a *****. I see you're one for slippery slopes. Those are counter-productive. If you don't like my idea, don't be obnoxious about it please.
How is it a slippery slope?
You want it to be a 1 vs 1 equation, right?
So, I'm helping your suggestion. If you don't even everything out, then it can never be a 1 vs 1 equation. So, to add to my "obnoxious" post, you also have to remove the vehicle cap.
Pythons. Pythons everywhere.
This thread is now a dance party
~ Dances Boldly ~
DUST STUFF
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
33
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Posted - 2015.05.30 16:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Pretty much inapplicable analogies completely and totally missing the point.
Reason behind swarm launchers not getting touched is because half these people aren't competent enough to actually pick one up against vehicles, if the blues were more intelligent and decided to run av and smg fits THEN you'd see a nerf, and the whole point of the rant is that despite his complaint he would've ended up like the assault dropship with the tanks, you know what rattati did, it would've been a carbon copy and tanks would be FAR worst than they would have been any other patch.
"Being tooth and nail about it" as rattati said is why the ADS was nerfed so hard.
G.R.A.V.E - Dead men tell no tale...
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HOLY PERFECTION
Conclusive Wrath
100
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
bump
Join Conclusive Wrath or ........... die
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Jax Saurian
GunFall Mobilization
251
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Posted - 2015.05.30 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:As somebody who foolishly invested millions into AV weapons, I am sick of having to lock-on.
Lemme fire the damn thing when I want, at the target I want. Too many times have my attempts at an HAV suppository been thwarted due to annoying lock-on and fire mechanics. Yes. What I want requires swarms to be re-imagined. [Edit for clarification: What I want is more akin to a Caldary RPG launcher with multiple rockets fired at once, with damage balanced for AV and whatever fool aims it at infantry.]
Better for me.
Better for pilots.
Better for fun.
CCP... make like Nike and "Just Do It."
Dumb fire swarms?
(closed beta flashbacks)
NO! NEVER AGAIN! NEVER AGAIN!
(curl up into a ball) (cry uncontrollably)
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