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![[Veteran_LifeLine Water]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_LifeLine Water]")
[Veteran_LifeLine Water]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:55:00 -
[61] - Quote
Thomas Mills wrote:ok I starting to understand what you mean but I don't think haveing extreamly reduced SP gains in VR training will encurage boosting lets use numbers this time something along the lines of 100k SP for a PvP match and the exact same thing in a VR match would net you 12k SP. maybe it's the fact that I'm still pretty new to FPS's but really look at the difference any sane person would go to PvP to grind.
Doesnt make sense, why should CCP make an incentive for people to VR train, training is the incentive to train. No need to put in gain at all, its about testing out tactics, if corps/alliances need an incentive to train then they've already lost any chance at becoming a serious force tbh.
And great idea Mavado, make some of the most valid points tbqh |
[Veteran_scatter gun514]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 17:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
not many things in eve come free or cheap, i do think that there should be a cost to the VR training of some sort. providing the facilities, and the technology, to run the VR sims, should take some sort of monetary seed investment i feel.
in EVE, Territorial claim units to own a system cost 6m isk/day, and the advanced logistics arrays(that enable jump bridges) cost 10m/day EACH(two to set up a single jump bridge route).
I understand apples to oranges, and we cant directly translate these mechanics to DUST514, but i also dont feel they should just be 'available'... Perhaps set up the vr sims on warbarges, and set them up akin to towers, where you can get public access for a 'per use' basis, (arbitrary number) isk/session would be better than sending in a 50k dropship to see it fail misserably as a NPC corp member. for player corps, who own war barges, provide a module/upgrade for a steeper one time fee(possibly requrie EVE backing), and allow corporation to set their own fees per use, for future upgrades/expansions.
there should be some cost associated with it, because it SHOULD be a material asset like everything else in the EVE-DUST universe, but it also needs to be accessible and not prohibitively expensive.
having a 1 time fee for a corporation owned VR station(or whatever you shall want to call it) would allow the dedicated to buy it to set themselves a step above the pubbies, and would be a drawing point for people to join them rather than just some random corp,
and assuming war barges will be destructible, will mean it should be that much more important to ensure the safety of your assets.
i completely support the idea of some sort of practice match mode for individuals/corps/alliances, and as mentioned there shouldnt be a reward for no risk situations. this shouldnt be designed to be any sort of a primary play mode, and you shouldnt be able to do any sort of farming from it. |
[Veteran_Rhadiem]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 17:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
+1 this is awesome and reminds me of my old TF clan practice/duel maps.
This could also be easily expanded into an eSport tournament style arena with betting and such.
But we really need something to run around in outside an official contract for practice AT Release. |
[Veteran_Vrain]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 18:05:00 -
[64] - Quote
Absolutely agree, Mavado.
The game will be served well by a risk-free place to practice tactics and hone skills. And ABSOLUTELY NO skill point gains from VR training mode. Also agreed on no gear loss, this is VR after all, and more importantly there should be no barriers to anything that promotes more and better teamplay. |
[Veteran_Thomas Mills]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 18:16:00 -
[65] - Quote
well enough people have said no to SP gains while in there so I guess I'll change my vote to that even though I don't quite buy it yet....don't think it should cost isk per use but an upgraded MCC to include it sounds good |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 20:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
this is a FPS
private areas are STANDARD in FPS games. Its simple things like this that can make or break a game for hardcore players
Regardless of what ppl think of console players there are alot of us that take planning and tactics seriously. Why does a cost need to be attached? that pushes ppl away from using it, its a basic FPS requirement same as proper clan support
Just because "things arent free in EVE it shouldnt be in DUST" something as simple as this i would have to disagree very strongly. There are in the same universe but different games and last i heard EVE players can go on SiSi and practice, thats where alot of the EVE alliances practicing for the alliance tournament usually end up right? to try new fits etc
that doesnt affect their actual real character
ppl need to stop trying to always make DUST into EVE and realise there are 2 different games in the same universe so things will be handled differently at times for the 2 games |
[Veteran_scatter gun514]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 20:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:this is a FPS
private areas are STANDARD in FPS games. Its simple things like this that can make or break a game for hardcore players
Regardless of what ppl think of console players there are alot of us that take planning and tactics seriously. Why does a cost need to be attached? that pushes ppl away from using it, its a basic FPS requirement same as proper clan support
Just because "things arent free in EVE it shouldnt be in DUST" something as simple as this i would have to disagree very strongly. There are in the same universe but different games and last i heard EVE players can go on SiSi and practice, thats where alot of the EVE alliances practicing for the alliance tournament usually end up right? to try new fits etc
that doesnt affect their actual real character
ppl need to stop trying to always make DUST into EVE and realise there are 2 different games in the same universe so things will be handled differently at times for the 2 games
im wasnt trying to say dust and eve need to be identical, and im glad they arent, but realistically, there should be some sort of price tag involved, and the dedicated players will be rewarded for their investment and efforts. and a player owned war barge would be a good place to add it, invite your allies over for some friendly competition and tactics rehersals.
having a corp owned VR training room with a price tag would encourage people to work together and pool resources to acquire the technology/hardware. it would give something for the enemy to try taking out, and thusly owners something to fight for. a game of consequences.
the pricing shouldnt be prohibitively expensive, but everything has a price tag as demonstrated in the E3 2011 trailer for DUST, 4.4m/RDV(destructible) 120m for an MCC, how much for a warbarge to haul them around in? how much for a simple one time upgrade per barge? i know these prices arent set in stone, but just using it as an example.
DUST 514: E3 2011 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw0gOjOWDuI&feature=BFa&list=PLFC7B99173F4DC31F
*EDIT*
not to mention the high skill, high end, professional mercenary corps out there will likely have EVE Benefactors or receive hefty compensation for their efforts, considerably higher than what the NPC corps pay, average NPC rewards about what? 100k per win? i would expect the larger alliances with deeper pocket books to pay much more to have reliable mercs on standby for their planets |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 00:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
ur also missing the point i made in my OP about solo players having something in their MQ
honestly dont see why a cost needs to be attached to something as simple as that but w/e
warbarges probably wont be coming anytime soon i assume seeing as certain aspects of the game wont be there at launch and something like a VR training room should be in there asap.
i have no problem being a warbarge upgrade btw but if u price it too high its defeating the purpose tbh and still solo players should be able to at least do the Octagon 1v1, 2v2 sessions via their MQ
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.02 16:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
If you set something like this up and include an "arena" type setup with PvP, there WILL be calls for tournaments, and there WILL be players trying to organise a way to "bet" on fights. And it will be awesome if it happens. |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
295
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Since they're removing militia tanks, I feel as though this will be necessary.
One of the problems I had in World of Tanks is that getting the necessary practice for higher level tanks was extremely expensive. Because you're gonna die, and you're gonna die a lot. But a death can be a very good thing.
With Militia vehicles in this game, I can experiment and learn the nuances of tank playing without shelling out 50,000 ISK + upgrades every time I need to learn a hard lesson. |
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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.07.04 12:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
even if militia tanks would stay its still needed for the reasons i stated already in this thread |
nym arkanheld
Doomheim
1
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Posted - 2012.07.05 10:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Yes, a training room is necessary to learn how to play. In normal battlefields, you do not have time to do tests, and friendly players will not like that you are waisting time. |
snes 420
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:50:00 -
[73] - Quote
Great idea here i love it! |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
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Posted - 2012.07.06 21:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
First off:
Forums Veteran wrote:...make training -8x...
lulz @ epic math fail.
Anyhoot, I think a VR training environment is practically required. Figuring out controls, fits, corp tactics, practicing with vehicles, etc; there are a multitude or reasons to do this. VR training should be a no-risk no-reward environment that costs you nothing and gives you only your own, personal skill increase. To clarify: no SP or ISK whatsoever.
If people really want a price tag associated with it, let the corp have to buy a training structure and set it up in a corp office or something. I personally think it should be free, however. This would help everyone from vets to noobs, but especially the latter as they are figuring out how everything works. Giving them someplace to learn the ropes without getting destroyed would do well in replacing Dust's lack of a campaign mode. I don't know about everyone else, but when I get a new FPS, I always play through single player first to adjust to game mechanics and weapons, then move on to multiplayer. This will give newcomers that chance.
Additionally, as has been said, it will be very attractive for those gaming clans who are big on practice matches. As for concerns that less will be lost, and thus the economy will be damaged, players will still have to take part in public matches to accrue ISK and SP, so VR training will certainly not decrease how often players get out there and die. In fact, I would actually argue the opposite; players can try out fits in training, so they're more confident with them and use them in the field. When that happens, they will either kill more opponents, fueling the economy, or they'll find they aren't as good as they thought and lose that fit. One way or another, the economy remains the same and might even grow.
Finally, I would like to propose that specific places be simulate-able in VR training. Let's say corp A wants to attack corp B: corp A can fire up their training room and load the planet environment on which they will be fighting and practice their strategy. Team B could do likewise and practice defending it, the two corps being completely separate while training, of course. If a map hasn't been generated for an area on a planet, then it wouldn't be available until after it had been fought on for the first time.
+1 for the whole idea, should definitely be in the game.
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immortal ironhide
SyNergy Gaming
80
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Posted - 2012.07.06 22:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
completely agree with this idea
should be free and included in the game. no rewards for it other than knowing you got better. if you dont want to use it you dont have to but it MUST be available for those that want/need it |
ORI Clone 2631
4
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Posted - 2012.07.07 14:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
A method of gameplay that allows a squad/corp etc. to practice strategies and whatnot would be terrific. |
Carbon Hebonite
9
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Posted - 2012.07.07 16:43:00 -
[77] - Quote
I have a thread of many requests, and one of them happens to be a training mode. Would you mind if Iinked to this thread to expand upon it?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25182&find=unread |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
u can link it in your thread idc i just want CCP to see this and realise this is something that is a must have for clans coming to this game |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.11 19:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
maybe it could have a diffrent virtual feel kinda like the training room in AC brotherhood. |
Pombe Geek
Red Star.
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Posted - 2012.07.12 15:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Great idea - I'd really appreciate the ability to practice/test out different fittings before actually committing to them. |
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Shoore Shot
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.14 06:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
This idea sounds amazing. I really hope this is something we see in the future of this game  |
Mako LandSharkX
Goggles Inc.
48
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Posted - 2012.07.14 07:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
OP has a good idea, but I'd be satisfied if it was simply a shooting range VR room for one person to access from their personal quarters.
Sure a full on practice arena with people would be better-but if it's easier to just make a space for me to test out weapons and fits before investing heavily in them, I'd be happy with that.
It would help a lot to be able to nail down things pre-combat/fit restocking for things like:
-how grenades/mass drivers arc
-gauge splash damage effective radius
-get a feel for charge timers on forge/snipers
-test fire rates and accuracy differences on burst/single fire/full auto variations
-ranged targets showing the range of effect for your guns
etc |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.07.14 11:43:00 -
[83] - Quote
Mako LandSharkX wrote:OP has a good idea, but I'd be satisfied if it was simply a shooting range VR room for one person to access from their personal quarters.
Sure a full on practice arena with people would be better-but if it's easier to just make a space for me to test out weapons and fits before investing heavily in them, I'd be happy with that.
It would help a lot to be able to nail down things pre-combat/fit restocking for things like:
-how grenades/mass drivers arc
-gauge splash damage effective radius
-get a feel for charge timers on forge/snipers
-test fire rates and accuracy differences on burst/single fire/full auto variations
-ranged targets showing the range of effect for your guns
etc
shooting range can be incorporated, CCP already said there will be a way to test fits an such my idea was simply expanding upon what we already know to provide a better , more fleshed out Training area for both players and corps
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Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.15 07:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
I still support a no risk no reward training room with a aimpler private version and a combat simulator for corps. |
Bzeer
MG GROUP
41
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Posted - 2012.07.15 07:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
such an idea should be used (if used) for corps only... like a way of practicing against your own corp mates. I've freely given some ideas for countering certian things in game on this forum, but I've also deleted advice I've decided would be bettter kept for just my future corp... ;-) same goes for fitting ideas, etc. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.15 15:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
i think a simpler private version that lets you test how weapons, and driving controls for people not wealth corps, also i think there should be a complexe version for corps so they can test tactics and train new members provided the fork over the isk |
Eirik DenRoue
22
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Posted - 2012.07.15 17:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
A simple shooting/piloting range would be awesome. A place we can test new fittings and practice with vehicles. Just an empty space would be perfect.
This would allow corps. to practice tactics, and new players to figure out the fitting and skill systems of the game. As well as see what Dust 514 has to offer. |
Yorran Storm
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.15 19:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
Yep defo agree with this idea, a test server for dust :) |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.07.18 04:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
likin the feedback
any more thoughts or additions to improve upon the idea? |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.23 13:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
CmdrWang confirmed a test server for Dust. 
hell yes |
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