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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 00:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a request for a feature to be included making proper training modes/areas and not just basic tutorials in the release of the game or at least very soon after.
VR Training (Solo/Corp/Alliance perspective)
In a game like this with where ISK efficiency, Preparation, Strategy, Skill are all important i'd like to share my thoughts on a DETAILED IN-DEPTH VR Training area for all levels of players whether it be solo, corp, alliance.
This game requires gun game, not everyone has it and some who have potential can get alot better at it and even those who are good at it can use this suggested VR arena to stay sharp/warmup/even improve.
Octagon: Taking a note from the Halo Gametype Octagon, this is a great 1v1, 2v2 arena where players can work on their aim, strafing etc which are all basic components which make up 1v1 and 2v2 small combat.
This arena should be able for a solo guy to do it 1v1 with different difficulty bots if he has no friends or just prefers it solo or have the option to invite friends and practice against them. As a competitive player one way i've always found myself to constantly keep improving is playing against better players and this VR mode the better players of a corp can train/practice with the weaker ones helping them improve their overall shot and strafe.
Team: This VR arena should be just as its entitled a place where your Corp/alliance, as a whole (24v24), can run practice games, work on strats etc. This arena should be simulating what a real match would be like.
Vehicle: This VR arena as the name suggests is strictly vehicle based. No one wants to spend a bunch of ISK on a dropship, tank, etc without knowing how the controls are and if its even worth it. People can practice Tank warfare, Tank and Dropship Warfare and strats. With Fighters also confirmed as well this is a great arena where pilots will be able to dogfight against one another to keep their skills sharp and also improve.
Note: NO SPs or ISK will be rewarded via these VR training areas, the only reward should be you knowing you are improving individually and team wise.
Reason an IN-DEPTH training area will be ideal is that PUB matches arent a good place to actually get better and practice, from my experience in various games public matches u dont even need tactics to beat an unorganised bunch of randomly assembled players on the other team. Its this reason why zerg tactics/rushes were the go to tactic on games like MAG. Why get better and improve the overall standard of play when you can just zerg objectives against randoms and win?
I'd like to see alot of high level play and tactics involved in DUST but CCP will need to provide the tools to encourage that and this VR Training Arena is one way they can do it. |
[Veteran_wyled sta1lker]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 01:05:00 -
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This i agree with this u might already have it set up for the corp and allance set up when u bring that play with the corp part as a place were the corp member can train and see how to work together as a team
do not give extra sp or isk for it at the same token do not take there gear away when they die |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 03:53:00 -
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wyled sta1lker wrote:This i agree with this u might already have it set up for the corp and allance set up when u bring that play with the corp part as a place were the corp member can train and see how to work together as a team
do not give extra sp or isk for it at the same token do not take there gear away when they die
yes forgot to add that part since its VR training dont take their gear away when they die. |
[Veteran_Traynor Youngs]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 05:26:00 -
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Would also be useful to allow certain people (commanders, CEO, etc) to control certain aspects of the match.
IE, allow the commander to make the enemy bots attack a certain objective, or utilize certain vehicles.
This way you can test your strategies against different enemy tactics.
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[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 06:54:00 -
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this is a really neat idea |
[Veteran_Iceyburnz]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 09:47:00 -
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Awesome Idea. |
[Veteran_Kushmir]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 13:12:00 -
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+1. please make it as customizable as possible. |
[Veteran_Nadroj Isk]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 13:50:00 -
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Awesome! |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 13:53:00 -
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in a persistant and open world vr training does not make sense to me its basically the equivalent of your merc staying home and playing on the computer if you no what i mean. quick example someone mentioned a vr gun range, the way i would like to see it done would be some sort of public gun range located in the eve universe where any body could go and practice and compete based on speed, acuracy and what not hell you could even have the targets shoot back and kill you. plus you have to remember there is going to be a market that relies on stuff getting blown up |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 23:05:00 -
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Degren Cthulhu wrote:in a persistant and open world vr training does not make sense to me its basically the equivalent of your merc staying home and playing on the computer if you no what i mean. quick example someone mentioned a vr gun range, the way i would like to see it done would be some sort of public gun range located in the eve universe where any body could go and practice and compete based on speed, acuracy and what not hell you could even have the targets shoot back and kill you. plus you have to remember there is going to be a market that relies on stuff getting blown up
why does it need to be public? u are a MERCENARY corp. What Army doesnt have private facilities to train?
who said stuff wont be gettin blown up? Ppl will have to actually play matches to skill up and get ISK so if they want their character to keep advancing they need to actually get on the public matches and play.
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[Veteran_bjorn morkai]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 23:15:00 -
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as long as this isn't gonna be some solo SP/ISK grind thing, I agree with this. Definitely could use somewhere to practice the use of your new weapons besides the hard way. Think I died five times before I got to find out how the charged sniper rifle was like. |
[Veteran_Alpha SnakeBlood]
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Posted - 2012.06.08 23:31:00 -
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Eve though the VR idea is great i remember a thread with some very good ideas on it for training and VR chambers in which tutorials could be acceced, gun ranges, vehicle testing facilities and the war barges could host mock up battles the ideas went into great depth but i cant rember what the tread was called. |
[Veteran_Alegis' Leqarna]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:25:00 -
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Great Idea.
I for myself dont play Games like Dust every day (i usually play Battlefield every few weeks for a couple hours) so i need some training to get back into it. A training area would be nice for that, especially for Dust, where u lose more than tickets each death.
You shouldn't be able to get SP / ISK in those training areas for sure. |
[Veteran_Zat Earthshatter]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:55:00 -
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I'd love for VR training, especially if you could scan enemy planets to upload to the VR unit for extra practice. This adds intel-war to the equation as well as basic training, meaning even pros and commanders could use VR training. |
[Veteran_MUDMASTEI2]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:29:00 -
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Would rather have time spent on gladiator arenas being developed than training facilities. |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 02:58:00 -
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MUDMASTEI2 wrote:Would rather have time spent on gladiator arenas being developed than training facilities.
Mud u know me, i would too as well, gladiator arenas are already confirmed coming. I want the overall lvl of play be high , providing much better competition |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 03:39:00 -
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Mavado V Noriega wrote:Degren Cthulhu wrote:in a persistant and open world vr training does not make sense to me its basically the equivalent of your merc staying home and playing on the computer if you no what i mean. quick example someone mentioned a vr gun range, the way i would like to see it done would be some sort of public gun range located in the eve universe where any body could go and practice and compete based on speed, acuracy and what not hell you could even have the targets shoot back and kill you. plus you have to remember there is going to be a market that relies on stuff getting blown up why does it need to be public? u are a MERCENARY corp. What Army doesnt have private facilities to train? who said stuff wont be gettin blown up? Ppl will have to actually play matches to skill up and get ISK so if they want their character to keep advancing they need to actually get on the public matches and play.
just saying it could be done in a better more imaginative way that keeps all the players in the game and not in there own little private world the way eve does it |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 13:28:00 -
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then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 13:54:00 -
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Mavado V Noriega wrote:then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo
lol can u read that was a quick example for something like a gunrange in hisec if you wana practice large scale combat do it on your own planet that you own. me thinks you dont understand the concept of a persistant open world. so i will just say it please for the love of god ccp no private instances, dont cater to this new breed of filthy carebare |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:05:00 -
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Degren Cthulhu wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo lol can u read that was a quick example for something like a gunrange in hisec if you wana practice large scale combat do it on your own planet that you own. me thinks you dont understand the concept of a persistant open world. so i will just say it please for the love of god ccp no private instances, dont cater to this new breed of filthy carebare
clearly not understanding
lol @ callin me a carebear dont know me very well but its ok, not your fault. |
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[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:10:00 -
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Mavado V Noriega wrote:Degren Cthulhu wrote:[quote=Mavado V Noriega]then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo lol can u read that was a quick example for something like a gunrange in hisec if you wana practice large scale combat do it on your own planet that you own. me thinks you dont understand the concept of a persistant open world. so i will just say it please for the love of god ccp no private instances, dont cater to this new breed of filthy carebare
clearly not understanding
lol @ callin me a carebear dont know me very well but its ok, not your fault.
no you dont understand, im actually agreeing with you on what you want just you want vr where nothing is lost or gained i would rather see it done the way eve does it and im sorry for calling you a filthy carebear |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:28:00 -
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Degren Cthulhu wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Degren Cthulhu wrote:[quote=Mavado V Noriega]then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo lol can u read that was a quick example for something like a gunrange in hisec if you wana practice large scale combat do it on your own planet that you own. me thinks you dont understand the concept of a persistant open world. so i will just say it please for the love of god ccp no private instances, dont cater to this new breed of filthy carebare clearly not understanding lol @ callin me a carebear dont know me very well but its ok, not your fault. no you dont understand, im actually agreeing with you on what you want just you want vr where nothing is lost or gained i would rather see it done the way eve does it and im sorry for calling you a filthy carebear
then it defeats the purpose of training if u are not gettin SPs or ISK via the training already but losing stuff that makes no sense and if u have rewards ppl will use it to boost.
So me and my corp gonna practice with proto fits and have a big battle and then have no rewards thats not very smart ppl wont even bother with it.
Ppl gotta understand what works in EVE wont always work in a SHOOTER. Also the entire thing is about uppin the standard of play if u do like u are suggesting and attach a cost but no reward scrub clans wont ever try to get better, they wont bother with the training, the standard of play will still be low because ppl will resort to the good ole "hey lets pile everyone down 1 flank" aka zerg rush.
When i see a Zerg Rush that shows me the enemy is out of ideas and/or desperate. I wanna see good tactical play and good challenging fights, easy wins are never appealing to me i like to work and earn it. Thus these proposed VR training rooms will provide ppl a place to train Specific parts of their game which in turn makes avg ppl better thus uppin the competition lvl thus more fun for me playing against more good clans.
CCP i'll say this to u now.......DONT make the mistake other high profile games have made recently by not including a way to train. Tutorials are all well and nice for ppl picking up the game for the 1st time but u need more than just that
lolMAG no private setting, zerg rush is used by all clans as the go to tactic, standard of play low
Killzone 3 no private setting at launch (patched in months after the game died) standard of play low, ppl just runnin around like tdm in an obj mode
lolSOCOM 4 no party system or private setting at launch.....same as above. Zipper out of business now due to 2 high profile failures (MAG and SOCOM)
lolBF3 none at launch either, standard of play is again low, after it was added competition lvl rised
Any serious Competitive clan u are trying to lure to DUST will require this as some clans take practice seriously, some semi-serious. People like being prepared. It also provides a place for competitive clans to properly tryout recruits. Any pubstar can dominate unorganised randoms in a hisec pubmatch, make an impression against the clan u trying out for is a much better way to test recruits and is actually the way we test new recruits. Show us u can hang with us or do better than us not how u do against randoms in pubs. |
[Veteran_steffy weffi]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:06:00 -
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excellent idea seeing as the game is so unintuitive for new players |
[Veteran_AngelofSyN]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:08:00 -
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I agree with everything Mavado said. Also, I agree in advance with anything he will say below on this thread. |
[Veteran_Sorry Accident]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:17:00 -
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Mavado, You're my hero. Someone with actual sense, talking in a very easy to understand way. If this guy doesn't get it soon, he never will.
+1 Good sir, you deserve it.
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[Veteran_Zhar Ptitsa]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:17:00 -
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Dont understand why people disagree with this when they dont have to use it |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:18:00 -
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Mavado V Noriega wrote:Degren Cthulhu wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Degren Cthulhu wrote:[quote=Mavado V Noriega]then that defeats the purpose of training with your corp mates why would u got to a public training area to practice strats and show randoms/possible enemies?
just doesnt make sense imo lol can u read that was a quick example for something like a gunrange in hisec if you wana practice large scale combat do it on your own planet that you own. me thinks you dont understand the concept of a persistant open world. so i will just say it please for the love of god ccp no private instances, dont cater to this new breed of filthy carebare clearly not understanding lol @ callin me a carebear dont know me very well but its ok, not your fault. no you dont understand, im actually agreeing with you on what you want just you want vr where nothing is lost or gained i would rather see it done the way eve does it and im sorry for calling you a filthy carebear then it defeats the purpose of training if u are not gettin SPs or ISK via the training already but losing stuff that makes no sense and if u have rewards ppl will use it to boost. So me and my corp gonna practice with proto fits and have a big battle and then have no rewards thats not very smart ppl wont even bother with it. Ppl gotta understand what works in EVE wont always work in a SHOOTER. Also the entire thing is about uppin the standard of play if u do like u are suggesting and attach a cost but no reward scrub clans wont ever try to get better, they wont bother with the training, the standard of play will still be low because ppl will resort to the good ole "hey lets pile everyone down 1 flank" aka zerg rush. When i see a Zerg Rush that shows me the enemy is out of ideas and/or desperate. I wanna see good tactical play and good challenging fights, easy wins are never appealing to me i like to work and earn it. Thus these proposed VR training rooms will provide ppl a place to train Specific parts of their game which in turn makes avg ppl better thus uppin the competition lvl thus more fun for me playing against more good clans. CCP i'll say this to u now....... DONT make the mistake other high profile games have made recently by not including a way to train. Tutorials are all well and nice for ppl picking up the game for the 1st time but u need more than just that
lolMAG no private setting, zerg rush is used by all clans as the go to tactic, standard of play low
Killzone 3 no private setting at launch (patched in months after the game died) standard of play low, ppl just runnin around like tdm in an obj mode
lolSOCOM 4 no party system or private setting at launch.....same as above. Zipper out of business now due to 2 high profile failures (MAG and SOCOM)
lolBF3 none at launch either, standard of play is again low, after it was added competition lvl risedAny serious Competitive clan u are trying to lure to DUST will require this as some clans take practice seriously, some semi-serious. People like being prepared. It also provides a place for competitive clans to properly tryout recruits. Any pubstar can dominate unorganised randoms in a hisec pubmatch, make an impression against the clan u trying out for is a much better way to test recruits and is actually the way we test new recruits. Show us u can hang with us or do better than us not how u do against randoms in pubs.
again i agree with you man there should be a way to train wether your a solo player or part of large corp, we just disagree on the way it should be done.
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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:33:00 -
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well whats the thinking behind making it cost u and making it public? who is gonna test strats in public knowing some random can join in and see what they doin?
u dont show your hand to the enemy When armies conduct military exercises they dont do it in public view.
Im honestly trying to figure out your reasoning for attaching cost and making it public and dont say its a sandbox, real life is sandbox and real armies still train privately. Defeats the whole purpose of wanting to test that new fighter in training only to lose it and not gain anything when u could of just done that in a pub match and cant honestly tell me ppl have tech for clones and transferring consciousness but cant make a VR training sim. |
[Veteran_Degren Cthulhu]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 21:19:00 -
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well unless you are using only militia gear of course its going to cost u in public games unless you dont die are sugesting you should just get stuff free? and your right armies do train but they do it on there own turf with the gear they have, they just dont kill each other coz there mortal and again if you have your own planet why not test out your tactics on each other in militia or cheap fits |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.09 21:30:00 -
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its not just about tactics re-read the Original post.
what if u dont have a planet? what about trying out new fits to see how they perform?
u cant test that if using militia gear that wont simulate a real battle, because in a real battle u will be using more advanced gear
still havent heard a good reason against VR tbh
PS: my last comment was informing u that if u make the practice areas cost u then no one will use it and just stick to pub matches because at least they get rewarded at the end of the match |
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