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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
573
   |
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
480
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
I am okay if someone is able to solo me if they were apparently an epic-av guy with appropriate skills and equipment. I would feel insulted and cheated if it was mindlessly simple to solo a full PRO tank, but I giggle when an epic AV guy is able to successfully jump on the top of my tank and jam Lai Dais and Kubos through the roof. |
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6447
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not sure why with Proto Tanks they'd feel that way.
Before my AV suit cost nearly as much as that tank - but now that tank price is way higher.
Thus, the effectiveness should scale as a result.
But it's still absurd, it forces both sides to field a dedicate tanker or get team rolled because AV wouldn't be enough without numbers, which takes away from the ground-fight. That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, nullifying the AV role for infantry as more anti-air then AV.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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Zepod
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
159
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance.
You may not like what I said, but it's true.
It might anger or offend you, but it's still true.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9322
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because then the meta becomes who can get the most tanks out fastest wins.
There should never be a point at which the only viable counter to something is itself. Never.
If vehicle prices are too high, that can be reduced, but it should never be an easy way to not die while racking up kills.
There should never be a role in which the risk/rewards are out of balance.
Whether that is tanks, heavies, or scouts.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
480
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance.
But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. |
Alex-ZX
Valor Coalition
302
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
If we talk about a specialized tank hunter, of course that he will kill you in a sec, otherwise.... Lol... You will r### them again... And again and again. 'till they learn their lesson.
But as you can see, many ppl cry about it. They just want easy hunts.
*Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG
Luis' modified VC-107 CR
Alex's modified VC-107 SMG* Owner of this beasts
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J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
2645
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline.
The ButtPirates Now Accepting Applications. XD
TheYoutube
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18192
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Does it matter really. I'm tired if this conversation......we all need to be more interesting.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Flaylock Steve
Nos Nothi
728
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline.
plc to the turrent am i right? |
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1245
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance.
2x= 1y but 2x = 3y as well. Your math needs a bit of work.
Tanks cannot hide. Suits can.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11478
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
As an infantry and occasional AV player, I agree with the OP. No one infantry player should be able to solo a tank. I have stood against a blaster tank before with my Plasma Cannon and I was able to keep it distracted long enough for others in my team to surround it and deal a killing blow to the tank. Teamwork goes a long way.
Eve Online Invite
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
573
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance.
Besides the fact that it doesn't cost 400k-1.3mill.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9322
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Besides the fact that it doesn't cost 400k-1.3mill.
Would it be Ok if it cost 1 Billion ISK and be omnipotent?
Would that make a balanced game?
So that all those with tons of isk could just go into any game and kill anything else at will? And never have to worry about dying or having to make sacrifices to win?
That would be a FANTASTIC way to grow Dust. Lets just let the OP stuff stay because it costs so much, and not reduce the cost and make the game balanced and playable.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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nelo kazuma
1.U.P
75
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
I run my proto call commando with 3 damage mods with proto swarms and proto rail rifle I can usually set at least 4 uplinks prior and maintain them if someone brings me ammo. If a tank is dumb enough to stay in same spot I will kill him unless he full proto tank. Mind the ones who stick around are ignorant tankers who think there invincible lol. I can usually deter tanks and ads while my team provides cover from infantry and I rack up great wp and can manage myself just fine. The thing about av vs tanks is to be incredibly viable against tanks more than one person needs to run it but it leaves u very vunerable to infantry but even scaring vehichles of is what av was meant for a tank cant hack objectives so we often win. But even still armor tanks durability in my opinion is still a to high |
manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
429
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tank can 2 shot my Python
I can fire my whole reserve of XT missile launchers into a proto tank and it will not die. Even the double hardener fit seems to outrep my pathetic fire rate when the hardeners are down!
GG because that's fair.
Meanwhile tank continued to lol at my equally sp intensive vehicle which requires more skill to pilot then proceeds to 2 shot me from 200m in the redline.
GG because that's fair.
As for solo av on ground, just throw lai dais and remotes on a road
"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18193
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Besides the fact that it doesn't cost 400k-1.3mill. Would it be Ok if it cost 1 Billion ISK and be omnipotent? Would that make a balanced game? So that all those with tons of isk could just go into any game and kill anything else at will? And never have to worry about dying or having to make sacrifices to win? That would be a FANTASTIC way to grow Dust. Lets just let the OP stuff stay because it costs so much, and not reduce the cost and make the game balanced and playable.
Hell if there was a Terrestrial Super Heavy Assault Carrier that cost 100,000,000 ISK and was incredibly tough to destroy requiring the DPS of X tanks and Y players to even operate the gunnery I'd say hells yeah. That would be epic. Half as tall as one of the buildings we fight on top of and slow as hell......... GIMMEH!
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
59
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
I wonder why people still think price matters, if I can take out a proto player with a 0-10k isk suit (o isk for full bpo) and the proto costs 40-300k+ isk then why is it that if I have the skill that I cant do the same for tanks?
are they meant to be unbeatable powerhouses that takes more then a single player to take out
see what I thought of a tank was the heavy of the av world and heavies still go down if they don't have proper backup
when a single proto tank with no support can keep half a team occupied for most if not all the game then there is a problem, sure the team could ignore the tank with no viable way to take it out if they don't have the proper av or coordination but that leaves the tank to do whatever it pleases which can be game changing
if a skilled proto av user cant take out a skilled proto tanker then where is the balance or am I to believe that the rich get a free pass to dominate whenever they please? maybe I'm missing the point but I do believe that tanks shouldn't be so hard to defeat at proto without proper support
as a matter of fact I believe that if a tanker is dumb enough to let me get close that even basic re's or proxies should take them out
one should not have to rely on cheap tactics like jihad lav's to take tanks out, leave those tactics to scrubs
disclaimer: all aforementioned information is fully based on personal experience and opinions therefore should not be taken as a troll attempt or as a nerf or buff attempt |
Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
59
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Tank can 2 shot my Python
I can fire my whole reserve of XT missile launchers into a proto tank and it will not die. Even the double hardener fit seems to outrep my pathetic fire rate when the hardeners are down!
GG because that's fair.
Meanwhile tank continued to lol at my equally sp intensive vehicle which requires more skill to pilot then proceeds to 2 shot me from 200m in the redline.
GG because that's fair.
As for solo av on ground, just throw lai dais and remotes on a road
tankers seem to nag on about sl's requiring no skill when tanks are almost on the same skill req, I mean point and click with an occasional scroll wheel to activate a mod, I mean that isn't necessarily skill intensive
as for flying in an ADS that takes into account a lot more factors then driving around in a tank, not to mention that hitting just about anything is deadly plus av can knock you about and make you crash even if it doesn't kill you right away |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1228
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Now if ADS were more durable against swarms in at least in terms of knock back when hit I'd be happy with the current balance. As it stands now, you have all these people trying to AV tanks suddenly all turn on your ADS as soon as its airborne and its just an overwhelming amount to deal with. They make for a great diversion allowing your teams tanks to go about unmolested but outside of that I've only seen a few be useful as of late.
Your matchmaking sucked the last time and it still sucks this time.
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Vicious Minotaur
2298
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6451
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent.
Any reason it shouldn't be?
I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant.
Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation?
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1245
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. I wonder why people still think price matters, if I can take out a proto player with a 0-10k isk suit (o isk for full bpo) and the proto costs 40-300k+ isk then why is it that if I have the skill that I cant do the same for tanks? are they meant to be unbeatable powerhouses that takes more then a single player to take out see what I thought of a tank was the heavy of the av world and heavies still go down if they don't have proper backup when a single proto tank with no support can keep half a team occupied for most if not all the game then there is a problem, sure the team could ignore the tank with no viable way to take it out if they don't have the proper av or coordination but that leaves the tank to do whatever it pleases which can be game changing if a skilled proto av user cant take out a skilled proto tanker then where is the balance or am I to believe that the rich get a free pass to dominate whenever they please? maybe I'm missing the point but I do believe that tanks shouldn't be so hard to defeat at proto without proper support as a matter of fact I believe that if a tanker is dumb enough to let me get close that even basic re's or proxies should take them out one should not have to rely on cheap tactics like jihad lav's to take tanks out, leave those tactics to scrubs disclaimer: all aforementioned information is fully based on personal experience and opinions therefore should not be taken as a troll attempt or as a nerf or buff attempt
Majority of dropsuit confrontations are 1 vs 1.
Majority of tank confrontations are 3+ vs1.
Have you ever been in a battle, where you were not keeping track of a tank you knew was on the field, even if you were not using AV? Now tell me, how many other players are eying that tank up as well?
Now... try to do that with a dropsuit user... it doesn't work unless they are directly in front of you within close combat range. The number of actualized engagements is far less.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Vicious Minotaur
2298
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation?
I never said it shouldn't be.
Please, become literate and try again.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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MUNSON MANCHILD
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
12
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
So if I'm running around the map, and some random dude pulls out a basic tank, with crap mods, I shouldn't be able to kill his tank? What if he has no skills in tanks? My suit is proto, and so are my weapons, with SP sank into them. Dude with no skills running militia tanks should be able to roll out in a tank, kill a bunch of clones, do nothing for his team, and this is ok? |
Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2999
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yes, a tank should require multiple people to down. But a tank should also require multiple people to defend itself. Look at Titans in Eve. IT takes a whole bunch of people to kill them. But they need others to support them or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Going to be making a thread on revamping how tanks play soon.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2234
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 23:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
Congrats, nothing drives me up the wall like that asinine bullshit right there. So regardless of whether you're trolling or not: Cost is irrelevant so what makes you snowflakes think you shouldn't be solo'd like everybody else in the game can be? Oh, you're in a tank, okay well that only protects you from small arms fire; not from weapons specifically designed to destroy vehicles. Got more SP invested? Yeah well so did those guys in proto suits killed by a newberry in my squad a while back because Skill Points don't equal Skill.
There's absolutely no reason a tank shouldn't be able to be solo'd especially when there's nothing else in this game that can't be solo'd. 
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn
Rated [TV-MA]
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
573
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline.
Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2408
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Posted - 2015.04.13 00:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Honestly i believe that:
Tanks are way too fast
Tanks are way too weak
IF i could have it my way, i'd have tanks able to be outrun by triple kincatted minjas, unless they have nitro/are minmatar.
They would also have so much health it would take 2 swarmers a full clip and then a shot or 2, or a single swarmer 2.5-3 clips.
As a side to this, vehicle reps would be reduced to like 45/50/55 on heavy reps, and lights would do 30/35/40.
Of course, i'm going to have to deal with this "Reps can heal as much DPS as a single person can dish, so you either instakill in one clip, or you never kill them." scenario that CCP is stuck on.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18194
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Posted - 2015.04.13 00:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens.
What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map>
For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D.
You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour?
I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
59
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Posted - 2015.04.13 00:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens. What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map> For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D. You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour? I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack.
the fact that most supply depots are inaccessible to tanks other then the ones at the redline and sometimes not even those are accessible encourages redlining |
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Besides the fact that it doesn't cost 400k-1.3mill. Would it be Ok if it cost 1 Billion ISK and be omnipotent? Would that make a balanced game? So that all those with tons of isk could just go into any game and kill anything else at will? And never have to worry about dying or having to make sacrifices to win? That would be a FANTASTIC way to grow Dust. Lets just let the OP stuff stay because it costs so much, and not reduce the cost and make the game balanced and playable.
You know throughout reading this entire post I get the impression that you seem to believe tanks completely invincible. Your thinking as if know one has adapted to the challenge like Jolly had said previously he will hunt you down and put you in the redline, but the that's just one guy compared to a group of them. All it takes is team work and that's all I'm asking for team work...
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens. What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map> For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D. You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour? I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack.
I'm saying that. Camping in the redline is what gets to me.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Yes, a tank should require multiple people to down. But a tank should also require multiple people to defend itself. Look at Titans in Eve. IT takes a whole bunch of people to kill them. But they need others to support them or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Going to be making a thread on revamping how tanks play soon.
Thank YOU!!
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
MUNSON MANCHILD wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. So if I'm running around the map, and some random dude pulls out a basic tank, with crap mods, I shouldn't be able to kill his tank? What if he has no skills in tanks? My suit is proto, and so are my weapons, with SP sank into them. Dude with no skills running militia tanks should be able to roll out in a tank, kill a bunch of clones, do nothing for his team, and this is ok?
You do realize I'm basing my argument off of investment right?
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9322
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Yes, a tank should require multiple people to down. But a tank should also require multiple people to defend itself. Look at Titans in Eve. IT takes a whole bunch of people to kill them. But they need others to support them or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Going to be making a thread on revamping how tanks play soon. Thank YOU!!
I would be ok if tanks needed multiple people to defend them, but they don't.
They can solo and take on several people no problem.
Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9322
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
This is from a tanker.
Mathematical impossibilities for AV is a problem.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 00:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Tank can 2 shot my Python
I can fire my whole reserve of XT missile launchers into a proto tank and it will not die. Even the double hardener fit seems to outrep my pathetic fire rate when the hardeners are down!
GG because that's fair.
Meanwhile tank continued to lol at my equally sp intensive vehicle which requires more skill to pilot then proceeds to 2 shot me from 200m in the redline.
GG because that's fair.
As for solo av on ground, just throw lai dais and remotes on a road
Dropships are in a bad place arm everyone knows this maddies are super op atm everyone knows this. But what I'm getting at is why an av player should be able to destroy my tank in a low isk suit I bel ADSs should be able to destroy me.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
482
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
If you can't kill a basic tank, you are doing it wrong. Just saying. |
Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
482
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Also, people tend to forget if you take on a tank v. tank, you CAN and SHOULD have AV riding with you. Have them hop out and down the super repper Madrugar while you pound them with rail/missile.
Also TEAMWORK will take down ANY tank!!! |
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Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
482
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
Also, hardeners are MEANT to provide durability for extended engagements but they are not permanent. If he runs BOTH, then he WILL have to back off when they go down. If he runs ONE, then you can down him EASILY with focused AV fire. If he is PROTO he is supposed to be hard to kill!
My god, the dumbasses are taking over and they want nothing more than to make tanks of ALL tiers easy-mode to kill. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8699
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
2x= 1y but 2x = 3y as well.
Pilots smart. And you can too!
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3166
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Posted - 2015.04.13 01:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
What tanker? Breakin is a spreadsheet warrior. All he does is make sheets and comment about numbers, he doesn't use vehicles.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3166
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Posted - 2015.04.13 01:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
They can solo and take on several people no problem.
Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now.
Maybe you should stop using the MLT Anti Armor suit against people that have 60mil SP into vehicles.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:One Eyed King wrote:
They can solo and take on several people no problem.
Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now.
Maybe you should stop using the MLT Anti Armor suit against people that have 60mil SP into vehicles.
No. Go away.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Might I ask you why are you guys giving all you got on a hardened tank? Just a tip shoot at the tank if he puts up his hardener stop wait until he's weak then wail on him. That's like throwing rocks at a steel wall and asking why your not hitting the people on the other side. 
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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IVIaster LUKE
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 01:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
No Guts/No Glory
*Switch to Remotes*
*Charges at tank* Like an 8 year old about to open presents on Christmas.
*Gets killed* immediately!
WTF!!! $&@?! 
Rush...Rush for my Yayo!
Don't fear the Reaper. =ƒÆÇ
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6455
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again.
I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation.
If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot.
But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent.
He has a point...
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3166
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks,
That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6455
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it.
I see a huge problem with it.
For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
574
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up.
Spkr, go away. Your blind.
But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
|
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are.
To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing.
That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else.
What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5786
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
497
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. |
Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
497
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV.
And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. |
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain.
It's a tactical shooter.
If you spam equipment - I use flux.
If you use shield - I use Amarr
You go tanks - I go AV
it shouldn't be you go tanks so do I.
It shouldn't be you go AR so I have to too.
it shouldn't be you used a DS so now I have to too to deal with you. That is not how this game is balanced. For every decision you make to make yourself more powerful an equalally effect counter-measure exists if someone sets themselves up properly.
Copying that suit and fit to keep up is absurd.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
497
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are.
To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing.
That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else.
What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept.
Even though a solo AV'r will have trouble killing a solid Proto fit tank, he WILL be able to suppress and provide Area Denial, even for a bit. |
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways.
Mary, this is simply not true.
A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it.
I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
497
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain. It's a tactical shooter. If you spam equipment - I use flux. If you use shield - I use Amarr You go tanks - I go AV it shouldn't be you go tanks so do I. It shouldn't be you go AR so I have to too. it shouldn't be you used a DS so now I have to too to deal with you. That is not how this game is balanced. For every decision you make to make yourself more powerful an equalally effect counter-measure exists if someone sets themselves up properly. Copying that suit and fit to keep up is absurd.
Not all tanks are the same.
Not all answers to the tank are the same.
Just saying. Tanks have a HUGE variety to them and if you can't bring powerful enough AV, try a tank. Or maybe MAYBE have a squad of people who can ALSO switch AV and roll with them. The best squads I run into do that well. |
|
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Mary Sedillo
Eternal Beings
498
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd.
2 hardener, damage mod Sica is a cheap way to aggress tanks. You can lose 10 of them before you even match the loss of one Proto tank. Cheap and effective. |
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are.
To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing.
That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else.
What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept. Even though a solo AV'r will have trouble killing a solid Proto fit tank, he WILL be able to suppress and provide Area Denial, even for a bit.
That is true, but it's only a bit. It doesn't last long, the AVer will get crushed, and then the tanker will move on, and his CD's will give him constantly recharging "oh **** get out of here" buttons.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd. 2 hardener, damage mod Sica is a cheap way to aggress tanks. You can lose 10 of them before you even match the loss of one Proto tank. Cheap and effective.
Oh? Well, that's at least good to hear for pub matches.
In PC matches - it doesn't balance out so nicely when you're aiming for a win. You'll be spending a lot of time calling in more vehicles then being useful.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5787
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths.
And I think that's reasonable.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable.
Go PC more and find that reasonable.
That's not reasonable at all, this game sucks enough to be putting people off of the fun roles to play the unfun ones of chasing down tanks and camping roofs with forges.
If people want a more vehicle focused game mode then CCP should make a vehicle version of ambush so you guys can enjoy what you do together. But it hurts the battlefield when allocations to vehicles who can only camp are needed.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1629
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available.
You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage.
I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again.
ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle.
On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots.
Because, that's why.
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
60
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation?
because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do
for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems"
the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match
don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it
if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage
if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve
in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live? |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18200
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live?
No you'd probably see them shooting rounds down range from in excess of 1 or 2km and destroying entire buildings.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
5690
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:I'm not sure why with Proto Tanks they'd feel that way.
Before my AV suit cost nearly as much as that tank - but now that tank price is way higher.
Thus, the effectiveness should scale as a result.
But it's still absurd, it forces both sides to field a dedicate tanker or get team rolled because AV wouldn't be enough without numbers, which takes away from the ground-fight. That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, nullifying the AV role for infantry as more anti-air then AV.
Unless its manus peak or bridge map, tanks are shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
Call me when they can remotely hack a point.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18200
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 02:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
Manus Peak best map!
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6461
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live?
uhm. This isn't the real world, and those numbers only mean something to us subjectively to our own connotations to what those words mean. We do not understand the alloy used in tank material or the efficiency of anything to determine what can or cannot happen on a realistic level.
You then balance it based on gameplay - and this is a tactical shooter of 16 vs 16. If it was 32 vs 32 - it wouldn't mean so much allocating 2-3 resources against 1 - but in smaller number games it matters a lot. In one spot where you're forced into a 2v3 situation you may be losing that objective because you put 2 AVs on one tank doing nothing, making it a 14 vs 15. And the enemy could spam tanks, making you lose 1 extra player for every tank they field.
Think before you talk, son.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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Ronin Merc
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
27
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:57:00 -
[72] - Quote
I do it cause I can. And sometimes I succeed. I just love to see mighty tanks run from a cheap auut. Shows what kind cowards some tankers can be. |
Vicious Minotaur
2298
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 03:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent.
Allow me to spell out my thoughts for you in a non-facetious manner:
*ISK is not nearly as important as people say it is. In the balance equation, I think fools put too much weight on the ISK variable. Which is to say, ISK is not nearly as integral as people think.
Evidently, I need to be more blatant in my facetiousness, lest imbeciles think I am actually attempting to contribute to the discussion in earnest.
*May contain peanuts or an opinion
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
593
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Posted - 2015.04.13 03:40:00 -
[74] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
Apparently, infantry can't stay indoors with the mostly inacessible objectives, can't jump to the clouds and back, can't cloak, can't also use a tank, can't get someone to run AV with them and can't go around obstacles. It's not like they removed tanks from both ambushes. COME ON! That's crazy talk.
Yes, tanks are just too OP.
Death is a serious businessGǪ So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6462
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Posted - 2015.04.13 04:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. Allow me to spell out my thoughts for you in a non-facetious manner: *ISK is not nearly as important as people say it is. In the balance equation, I think fools put too much weight on the ISK variable. Which is to say, ISK is not nearly as integral as people think. Evidently, I need to be more blatant in my facetiousness, lest imbeciles think I am actually attempting to contribute to the discussion in earnest. *May contain peanuts or an opinion [Edit] and in case useless forum people are wondering, because I deem ISK less important, vehicle prices should be less high.
yes, yes, we all understood you the first time, mr intelligent. You don't think ISK is the most important balancing issue.
You're correct in sense, because the problem is tanks should be solo'd. For gameplay sake - but does it make sense that a tanker paid over a million for his set up and you paid 150k for yours and you solo'd him?
Why would people ever play tanker again?
ISK is important, if not equally as important as any 'important' issue you may deem worthy.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
545
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Posted - 2015.04.13 05:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable. Go PC more and find that reasonable. That's not reasonable at all, this game sucks enough to be putting people off of the fun roles to play the unfun ones of chasing down tanks and camping roofs with forges. If people want a more vehicle focused game mode then CCP should make a vehicle version of ambush so you guys can enjoy what you do together. But it hurts the battlefield when allocations to vehicles who can only camp are needed.
Agreed.
Half the time I see Vehicle threads and complaints of AV being too powerful or not powerful enough...
However, the core issue here is powerful vehicles in a game with infantry.
If the vehicles pop too easy the pilots complain.
They drive/fly around and shoot infantry that cannot shoot back with out the proper gear, and being more mobile means they can easily escape if they do not get greedy.
KDR machines, little risk and high KDR returns.
On the other end is the AV infantry player, who end up losing more isk in the long run and have much worse KDR's to show for their efforts.
That is exactly where the imbalance begins, and the source of such passionate arguments from both sides.
Player experience.
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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DDx77
The Exemplars
192
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Posted - 2015.04.13 05:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
( my thoughts are based on strong experienced tanker/dropship pilots)
First of all if your a tanker and you get killed 1v1 you are an idiot
The funny thing to me is not how easily I die to vehicles, it's that he AV vs vehicle relationship is dumb
Tanks / dropships are too weak
And
Infantry should not have to gimp themselves to fight vehicles
Do I have to explain how stupid it is that when you show up with you nigh invulnerable tank I have to go to a supply depot to get a av weapon but most likely die? Even if I win it's very frustrating
As a tanker or dropship you have the advantage in every situation (especially tankers)
You say, "hey dumb AV guy, you should need teamwork to kill a tank"
Ok so how many players?
3 av? Ok
(So I devote 3 players and make them weaker to other infantry to attack 1 player in a 16vs 16 match?)
Side note, what happens when you spam av and it's 3 or 4 vehicles?
So now it's 3 per vehicle and it's 9 players to fight 3 vehicles? Or 12 players vs 4?... so now those av teams are vastly outgunned by 6 or 8 enemy infantry that are attacking
Are you using teamwork too?
No? - Then you are in trouble but by no means dead
- You can run away! Like no problem!
- You can also - wait for it - jump out of your tank either before it's destroyed or to catch those pesky av infantry off guard and get the Easiest kill of your life
Team work, yes?
You are probably going to steamroll the opposition
Those 3 av are dead either by you or the infantry you came in with that are practically invincible due to the fact that they are AV focused suits
Don't get me wrong, I do think your argument is valid but the fact that in this strange cyber future universe I have to run to a depot to get my very unrewarding av fit to probably only make you retreat is pretty stupid
If it were up to me, I'd make tanks and dropships much tougher to bring down but also allow infantry to at least be able to equip swarms as a sidearm
And the people that are going to bring up the commandos... oh yeah the minmando, and gal plasma commando wow, those are so cool right? And slow and killed very easily unless you are a specialist in that role
May the Dark shine your way
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8036
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Posted - 2015.04.13 10:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
It's very simple.
When there is no viable infantry counter, tanks automatically win. Infantry get farmed. People decide it's not fun. They quit.
but this has never been important. The team with the most tanks wins. And since only five people can run them, that means 11 other people have no recourse other than to get repeatedly farmed.
Gee. That's fking fun and engaging gameplay I tell ya.
AV
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The KTM DuKe
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
110
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Posted - 2015.04.13 10:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
Everyone can drive a" proto" tank ( it s about skill points) if you are good you know which target shoot and when, if you are not my proof 5 forgegun can still kill your tank solo ( helping with flux/Av nades) , maybe AV nades are way too good but they were OP pre 1.7, now atleast you have passive reps
Alt of H0riz0n Unlimit, DMG director, FOTM chaser
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5344
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Posted - 2015.04.13 10:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
If it only takes one man to drive a tank, it should only take one man to kill one.
It is totally possible to kill a proto suit with mlt, even if the proto suit costs 100x as much. Isk should never be a balancing factor.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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WeapondigitX V7
The Exemplars
336
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Posted - 2015.04.13 13:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available.
The players in tanks can kill everything and then hack an objective, they can suppress far more than a single infantry unit and still progress forward, taking ground, limiting enemy movement more, etc.
Tanks have just as many tactical options as infantry, they just have different tactical strengths and weakness where they are worse at completing something, such as usually having a weak suit when entering small spaces, being strong in open spaces.
Specialized infantry strengths are inverted in that example, etc.
Specialized infantry can hack faster, less period of vulnerability, compared to a tank player that hops out of a tank. |
Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
6045
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 13:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
Just to further beat a thoroughly dead and bludgeoned horse, as someone who tanked as far back as the E3 build, I still feel that HAVs should follow LAVs in having separate driver and gunner seats.
A solo HAV is basically just a giant super-tanked dropsuit.
/me leaves before the tankers start screaming
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1245
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Posted - 2015.04.13 13:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage. I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again. ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle. On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots.
Oh dear... Never driven a tank have you? You hop out of a tank to hack a point, either A. An ally took the tank. B. Your tank got hacked. C. Your tank was blown up. or D. It's still sitting there.
In order of likelyhood A: 50% B 15% C 25% D 10% From what I've had when trying this.
More often than not, someone who is in a tank, does not run full expense gear. Kind of stupid to do that when you're already running a high expense that can go boom. If the tanker gets out about 70% of the time I've been able to kill them with my ground setups.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
6115
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Posted - 2015.04.13 13:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1456
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Posted - 2015.04.13 13:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:There should never be a role in which the risk/rewards are out of balance.
I think I'm in the minority of people who feel this way. Nothing should be prohibitively expensive, in general. Obviously, high tiers should be more, and if we're looking at PRO being relatively unsustainable in public then they need to cost a reasonable amount more.
But currently, there are some incredible risk/reward situations in the game, and I mean incredible in that it's hard to believe that they're there.
A STD HAV will cost roughly the same a kitted out PRO Dropsuit and will do more and less. But this is a STD tier piece of equipment - if it's to be killable by solo AV, then it needs to cost far less, otherwise it is almost entirely oointless to run one.
ADSs have, for a long time, been very precariously perched on the risk/reward scale. They can potentially never die,but they can also get blapped in a second and cost as much as an ADV HAV. Part of the issue here is no tiers.
Logis are sort of on the opposite end if the spectrum: with their equipment they can rake in a large amount of WP, and thus a large payout, even using STD gear. While they have low levels of resilience and relatively poor offence, they're capable of pulling in way above their weight (debatable; Logis can sometimes be so incredibly vital that it justifies their payout, sometimes they're worhkess and not worth 100k.)
Commandos are generally quite low on the reward side, being, for lack of a better phrase, jumped up assault suits. They're technically tougher but the combination of speed and hitbox makes them vastly more vulnerable, and thus more risky.
Essentially, risk/reward balance is very off kilter at the moment.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
6047
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Posted - 2015.04.13 13:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player.
Exactly why I support separating the driver of the tank from the main gun.
That would effectively mean that a Gunnlogi or Madrugar would have 4 players inside it, thus justifying it being able to stay on the field even with multiple AV users shooting at it.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1246
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Posted - 2015.04.13 14:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player.
If you can force engagements to be exclusively 1 AV vs 1 Tank. go right ahead.
CAN you force such a thing? If this is not possible, then what you proclaimed is not possible either.
Dropsuits can have 1v1 engagements. Those are the majority of encounters.
I've never seen a tank without at least 2 AV tracking it at any one time.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
1093
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Posted - 2015.04.13 14:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
I watched a dude tear tanks up with a plc yesterday , at least I think that is what he was using. I got some nice guardian assists from it. Was pretty wild, i'm not sure if he was using something else too like RE..I didn't see any. He would just pop up and fire only 2 shots in quick succession and boom dead tank. He killed 5 that way on objective.
Mind was blown.
I rarely ever kill solo , I mainly just annoy them and make them back away..which is just as good for me. |
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2241
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I watched a dude tear tanks up with a plc yesterday , at least I think that is what he was using. I got some nice guardian assists from it. Was pretty wild, i'm not sure if he was using something else too like RE..I didn't see any. He would just pop up and fire only 2 shots in quick succession and boom dead tank. He killed 5 that way on objective.
Mind was blown.
I rarely ever kill solo , I mainly just annoy them and make them back away..which is just as good for me.
Kubo's Plasma Cannon (officer)
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. If you can force engagements to be exclusively 1 AV vs 1 Tank. go right ahead. CAN you force such a thing? If this is not possible, then what you proclaimed is not possible either. Dropsuits can have 1v1 engagements. Those are the majority of encounters. I've never seen a tank without at least 2 AV tracking it at any one time.
Do you even make sense to yourself? 1 v 1 not being forcible doesn't have jack sh!t to do with one player equaling one player being possible or not.
I see blueberries
Rated [TV-MA]
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6472
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:58:00 -
[90] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player.
This is pretty much bottom line for gameplay sake.
But for the sake of sense and sanity - ISK has to be scaled down more so tankers don't feel the impact of everything they're losing to that solo combat.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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wiseguy12
Y.A.M.A.H
111
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
1v1 isn't viable anymore. If I solo a tank with my av suit that tank is "weak sauce". The only tanks I can solo consistently are std. or militia shield tanks. I just simply cook a flux and then nova knife away until it's dead.  If you don't have alot of skills in AV it's impossible to kill a half decent tank. I like the current hit points and resistance of tanks, but I find blasters as unbalanced. Blasters can kill swarmers before the first swarm. Quite frankly, my dear, it's unfair. but that's my only complaint.
Pro Caldari assault and Amarr sentinel.
Proto SMG, sniper, HMG, Scrambler and Assault Rifle
Onuoto Uakan
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DUST Fiend
16378
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available.
Also keep in mind that 2x is more or less = zy, since it only takes 2 or 3 AV on a team to respond to ALL vehicle threats.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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Kierkegaard Soren
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
750
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
I don't think I should be able to solo tanks, unless they're poorly fitted or poorly piloted.
However, I am seeing a problem with the way armour tanks just shrug off multiple AV whilst wreaking carnage before driving away with enough speed to survive the hits without hardeners. And then thry come back a minute or two later, no worse for wear.
Ideally, armour hardeners need a slight nerf and reps need to go back to active management; that way, tanks have to think before they commit, and plan a safe route out of the fight if it doesn't go according to plan.
I'm basically fine with tanks bein awesome and devastating, but they need to come with equally interesting and potent drawbacks.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
2665
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 19:48:00 -
[94] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:J0LLY R0G3R wrote:You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens.
Didn't really think I did?
"patrolling the map"
which is what tanks will do if not challenged or they find a honeyspot
I'll definitely die here and there while trying to make you adapt or die
except when it comes to the tankers running all the reps.
they just sit there and laugh
but a tank left to do whatever he wants is a tanker i'd like to annoy as much as possible
and I def can't kill every taker out there solo but I can usually annoy and throw them off the game they wanted to have
the amount of reps some of the current tanks have now it is impossible unless they are complete idiots
that said, most blue berries seems to get killed by the tank and spend the rest of the game trying to be on the opposite side of the map as the tank.
and my statement stands
i'll try my best to kill you or put u in the redline or at the very least from just rolling over the blueberries
There isn't a tanker out there that won't fall back to the redline to recover/reposition.
The ButtPirates Now Accepting Applications. XD
TheYoutube
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Count- -Crotchula
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 20:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
would be OK if I'm not the only guy in an expensive prototype AV fit with no anti-shield weaponry!
Even a duplicate forge gun which does nothing more but have a proficiency skill against shields WOULD BE FANTASTIC. |
DEATH THE KlD
Seven Kin of Purgatory
108
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
If you think proto tanks should be able to be solo'd then sure but make the price 150-200k so it's equal. Otherwise why should 1 dude whose suit cost 150k be able to solo 1.5m? |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1926
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 20:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Because then the meta becomes who can get the most tanks out fastest wins.
There should never be a point at which the only viable counter to something is itself. Never.
If vehicle prices are too high, that can be reduced, but it should never be an easy way to not die while racking up kills.
There should never be a role in which the risk/rewards are out of balance.
Whether that is tanks, heavies, or scouts.
This.
Plus becoming an AVer makes you an easy target for both infantry AND tanks. Yes, you can hit tanks but tanks can hit back and harder.
In a game of 16 vs 16, there can only be so many AVers before your team because dysfunctional. Think about it. Four solo tankers vs four-six AVers. The tankers have more firepower and are actively use their firepower to either destroy or hinder you. The AVers are a response, usually, or a defense in waiting. But regardless if the AVers are giving the tankers a hard time, and they're probably not if there's four fricking tankers on the field at once, the enemy team with the four tankers are most likely progressing much better off than your team, unless of course they really suck at corp battles.
I'm not saying that AVers should feel a need to team up to effectively handle a tank but I'm saying is that a solo AVer shouldn't feel completely useless. The AVer should at LEAST be capable, with the right skills and weapons, of hindering the enemy's tank progress in a 1v1.
A lot of tankers from day one feel like 1v1 should always favor the tanker because it costs much more. But they fail to realize that tanks can become OP much more easily by going off of this idea.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18210
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 20:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Because then the meta becomes who can get the most tanks out fastest wins.
There should never be a point at which the only viable counter to something is itself. Never.
If vehicle prices are too high, that can be reduced, but it should never be an easy way to not die while racking up kills.
There should never be a role in which the risk/rewards are out of balance.
Whether that is tanks, heavies, or scouts. This. Plus becoming an AVer makes you an easy target for both infantry AND tanks. Yes, you can hit tanks but tanks can hit back and harder. In a game of 16 vs 16, there can only be so many AVers before your team because dysfunctional. Think about it. Four solo tankers vs four-six AVers. The tankers have more firepower and are actively use their firepower to either destroy or hinder you. The AVers are a response, usually, or a defense in waiting. But regardless if the AVers are giving the tankers a hard time, and they're probably not if there's four fricking tankers on the field at once, the enemy team with the four tankers are most likely progressing much better off than your team, unless of course they really suck at corp battles. I'm not saying that AVers should feel a need to team up to effectively handle a tank but I'm saying is that a solo AVer shouldn't feel completely useless. The AVer should at LEAST be capable, with the right skills and weapons, of hindering the enemy's tank progress in a 1v1. A lot of tankers from day one feel like 1v1 should always favor the tanker because it costs much more. But they fail to realize that tanks can become OP much more easily by going off of this idea.
But it simply doesn't. A great many maps are dominated by objectives that are inaccessible to HAV as a result of adjustment's made by Rattati to accommodate infantry. Even if a team placed 4-5 tanks on any map with a large socket they would be doing more harm to their chanced than good.
There are only several specific objectives upon which HAV can have a direct impact.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1432
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 20:39:00 -
[99] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:But it simply doesn't. A great many maps are dominated by objectives that are inaccessible to HAV as a result of adjustment's made by Rattati to accommodate infantry. Even if a team placed 4-5 tanks on any map with a large socket they would be doing more harm to their chanced than good.
There are only several specific objectives upon which HAV can have a direct impact.
But we don't get to pick the maps we fight on. Or maybe we'll end up with all the infantry quitting from half the games, and all the tankers quitting from the other half.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
2020
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:40:00 -
[100] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
You know something is wrong when my basic madrugar -300k isk can easily survive proto AV from 3-4 guys.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19265
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
A quick breakdown
In a limited numbers game if every assault player counts as 1.0 then the sides would be 16 vs 16 points.
When you shove a player into tank they can easily make it 0 vs 1 where zero will lose against one. The other 15 infantry assult players no longer matter (objective mutator not added this id TDM)
So when you throw in one AV player on the game you now change the score up quite a bit. Most AV players are not that great at killing or supporting or maintaining meaningful effort equal to the baseline soldier class. because of this they're generally not scoring a 1.0 score but rather closer to a 0.5 or 0.25 a problem similarly shared with most logistics. Most have sidearms so they're not totally useless but they're still woefully ineffective against the other 15 players.
So one player going AV it becomes 0.5AV vs 1V + 15 vs 15 infantry.
Now that all infantry matter on both sides the tank we come to find out is a multiplier of sorts it cannot be destroyed by the 15 other players but the AV player can destroy it; It can easily kill the other 15 becuase of the immunity and kill advantage it offers. Well call it a +10% multiplier additive of current forces per HAV.
AV side 15.5 vs 17.5 V side
Now this is our base line in a 1 vs 1 situation.
A team full of AV would have a score of 8 vs 16\
A vehicle heavy team however vs infantry on an objective game (skirmish) would have a score of 16A vs 10V (averages about 12 actual with map factors) (vehicles cannot capture objectives; majority cannot enter objective zones or control them)
Either way as the game remains a low number game a single AV user under reasonable situations must be able to kill a vehicle. Any serious AV player would tell you the largest threat to them has never been the vehicle but rather the infantry that escort it.
The math is mostly arbitrary but it can be concreted more if tried; it just for dust 514 in all of its complexity gets extremely out of hand quickly on the player score weight on paper.
Right now lots of HAVers think it should be 3 AV vs V
So 14.5 vs 17.5
not exactly fair considering most tankers hate the idea of having two people in thier vehicle.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1631
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 21:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage. I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again. ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle. On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots. Oh dear... Never driven a tank have you? You hop out of a tank to hack a point, either A. An ally took the tank. B. Your tank got hacked. C. Your tank was blown up. or D. It's still sitting there. In order of likelyhood A: 50% B 15% C 25% D 10% From what I've had when trying this. More often than not, someone who is in a tank, does not run full expense gear. Kind of stupid to do that when you're already running a high expense that can go boom. If the tanker gets out about 70% of the time I've been able to kill them with my ground setups.
Yes, if you get out of your tank chances are good that you will lose it. So you lose your advantage and are now just equal to the other players. Being reduced to equal is not unfair. I guess you may be right though, I've never seen a tanker leave his tank to gun down someone before. Oh wait.
If you run a small turret you don't even have to chance that and you share your invincibility with another player.
Because, that's why.
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Smoky The Bear
THE SMOKIN GUNZ
Dark Taboo
193
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
Because every fit should have another fit that can destroy it.. Same as real life you dipshit |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1248
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:21:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage. I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again. ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle. On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots. Oh dear... Never driven a tank have you? You hop out of a tank to hack a point, either A. An ally took the tank. B. Your tank got hacked. C. Your tank was blown up. or D. It's still sitting there. In order of likelyhood A: 50% B 15% C 25% D 10% From what I've had when trying this. More often than not, someone who is in a tank, does not run full expense gear. Kind of stupid to do that when you're already running a high expense that can go boom. If the tanker gets out about 70% of the time I've been able to kill them with my ground setups. Yes, if you get out of your tank chances are good that you will lose it. So you lose your advantage and are now just equal to the other players. Being reduced to equal is not unfair. I guess you may be right though, I've never seen a tanker leave his tank to gun down someone before. Oh wait. If you run a small turret you don't even have to chance that and you share your invincibility with another player.
I've read some poorly written posts... but you seriously put no thought into that.
If you are in a tank, worth around 400k... why would you also wear a suit worth 150k? One death would mean the combined loss of the items.
The answer is, they don't. Most people who drive a tank use a BPO or starter fit, so that if the tank goes. It's just the tank that takes a wallet loss. It's as useless as a dropsuit carrying around a briefcase full of money. It just makes no sense to deploy.
If you are wearing a combat ready suit, you are probably not just gunning with the tank, which means the player is getting in and out of the vehicle.
And if you notice.... what I just wrote contradicts everything that you attempted to write.
Just try to think a bit more, OK?
Oh, and I hope to see you attempting to drive a tank, just so I can blow you up and show you how much "invincibility" you just bought.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
225
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:25:00 -
[105] - Quote
I think a single AV fit SHOULD be able to take out a tank by itself.
so long as the fit costs the same as a tank.
oh... wait..
n++pâçGòÉS+Ç +24 Million SP Merc n++pâçGòÉS+Ç
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Of course we won, now when do I get paid?
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Radiant Pancake3
Y.A.M.A.H
38
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance.
Math... o.O (Hides in the corner)
I am the Clown of Ass!
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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XxBlazikenxX
Y.A.M.A.H
770
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:37:00 -
[107] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Math... o.O (Hides in the corner)
That's my line.
Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H
Recruitment, Free BPOs!
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Radiant Pancake3
Y.A.M.A.H
38
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Math... o.O (Hides in the corner) That's my line.
So your on the forums yet not on dust? Seems legit.
I am the Clown of Ass!
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3262
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:40:00 -
[109] - Quote
Dear CCP:
Please remove tanks from DUST 514, so that all this bickering will stop.
Thanks,
Your stud,
O.T.
P.S. If you happen to remove DSs at the same time, I doubt anyone would notice.
As of April 9, 2015, we have about 330 days of DUST 514 left. Enjoy them!
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logan turnbull
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
28
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
one dren logisticssix remotes[list]
[/poof no more tank
lets roll
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davis fritz
Subsonic Synthesis
67
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:43:00 -
[111] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank.
But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong.
I think tanks are the most balanced they've ever been . ( I don't tank btw) It should be hard to kill them but they're not indestructible either. It would be absolute bs for a tank to be easily taken out by a solo DS
I fucking Love/Hate this game
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DUST Fiend
16381
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Zepod wrote:If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Math... o.O (Hides in the corner)
Like I've said though, it's not 2x = 1y, it's 2x = zy because all it takes is 2 to 3 AV working even remotely in sync to totally deny any number of vehicles that are deployed by the enemy.
So, if the enemy just calls out a single tank, it's not so even, but once 2 or more show up, it actually flips into favor of the AV squad. It's not our fault of the enemy team goes ape **** and deploys 7 AV players to handle 2 vehicles, that's on them.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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DUST Fiend
16381
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Posted - 2015.04.13 23:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
davis fritz wrote:It would be absolute bs for a tank to be easily taken out by a solo DS
Mathematically speaking it's now all but impossible to solo kill a well fit tank with any DS fit. It just will not happen unless the tanker actively tries to lose.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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TIGER SHARK1501
Savage Bullet
General Tso's Alliance
219
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Posted - 2015.04.14 00:36:00 -
[114] - Quote
The worst part is Proto tanks don't live up to the hype. They should need more than one proto AV player to be a threat. But merely my opinion. |
manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
433
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 23:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A quick breakdown
In a limited numbers game if every assault player counts as 1.0 then the sides would be 16 vs 16 points.
When you shove a player into tank they can easily make it 0 vs 1 where zero will lose against one. The other 15 infantry assult players no longer matter (objective mutator not added this id TDM)
So when you throw in one AV player on the game you now change the score up quite a bit. Most AV players are not that great at killing or supporting or maintaining meaningful effort equal to the baseline soldier class. because of this they're generally not scoring a 1.0 score but rather closer to a 0.5 or 0.25 a problem similarly shared with most logistics. Most have sidearms so they're not totally useless but they're still woefully ineffective against the other 15 players.
So one player going AV it becomes 0.5AV vs 1V + 15 vs 15 infantry.
Now that all infantry matter on both sides the tank we come to find out is a multiplier of sorts it cannot be destroyed by the 15 other players but the AV player can destroy it; It can easily kill the other 15 becuase of the immunity and kill advantage it offers. Well call it a +10% multiplier additive of current forces per HAV.
AV side 15.5 vs 17.5 V side
Now this is our base line in a 1 vs 1 situation.
A team full of AV would have a score of 8 vs 16\
A vehicle heavy team however vs infantry on an objective game (skirmish) would have a score of 16A vs 10V (averages about 12 actual with map factors) (vehicles cannot capture objectives; majority cannot enter objective zones or control them)
Either way as the game remains a low number game a single AV user under reasonable situations must be able to kill a vehicle. Any serious AV player would tell you the largest threat to them has never been the vehicle but rather the infantry that escort it.
The math is mostly arbitrary but it can be concreted more if tried; it just for dust 514 in all of its complexity gets extremely out of hand quickly on the player score weight on paper.
Right now lots of HAVers think it should be 3 AV vs V
So 14.5 vs 17.5
not exactly fair considering most tankers hate the idea of having two people in thier vehicle.
Multiple assumptions however
1. The av player is not using a commando o.O does that mean commandos count as 1.5?
2. The av player is not using a sidearm that can be used just as effectively as a main weapon e.g breach smg/bolt pistol/flaylock w jump mods. When I'm easily able to hit 30+ kills using an advanced bolt pistol then that assumption is completely Flawed
3. If a solo av player can take out a well fit proto madrugar with multiple hardeners, over 5000 hp and 150+ rep/s as well as a huge dps large turret, then how in the hell would they have any problem at all taking out a DS, this style of av completely screws over other vehicles
4. If your argument stands then 1 tank = 1 ds, both require the same amount of players without considering force multipliers, now how come the ads can't take out a madrugar.
"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
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