DUST Search - Why do AVers still believe in 1v1 against tanks.

True Adamance wrote:

JARREL THOMAS wrote:

J0LLY R0G3R wrote:

You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide.
If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline.

Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens.

What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map>

For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D.

You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour?

I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack.

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Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 59	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:05:00 - [31] - Quote True Adamance wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide. If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens. What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map> For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D. You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour? I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack. the fact that most supply depots are inaccessible to tanks other then the ones at the redline and sometimes not even those are accessible encourages redlining
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:12:00 - [32] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: Zepod wrote: If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. Besides the fact that it doesn't cost 400k-1.3mill. Would it be Ok if it cost 1 Billion ISK and be omnipotent? Would that make a balanced game? So that all those with tons of isk could just go into any game and kill anything else at will? And never have to worry about dying or having to make sacrifices to win? That would be a FANTASTIC way to grow Dust. Lets just let the OP stuff stay because it costs so much, and not reduce the cost and make the game balanced and playable. You know throughout reading this entire post I get the impression that you seem to believe tanks completely invincible. Your thinking as if know one has adapted to the challenge like Jolly had said previously he will hunt you down and put you in the redline, but the that's just one guy compared to a group of them. All it takes is team work and that's all I'm asking for team work... Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:13:00 - [33] - Quote True Adamance wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: You bloody shoot at me or even aim that turret my way. Don't think I"m going to just run off and hide. If I don't kill you, I'm at least going to hold you up from just patrolling the map before ya dip into the redline. Don't you dare characterize me as a redline tanker I would shoot you down before that happens. What's wrong with using the Redline to access other parts of the map> For example on say Line Harvest you attack A point in the caldera and support your team by firing down onto the point while covering infantry as they hack the CRU. Enemy AV shows up firing from D. You pull back and loop around the map using your redline to get ammunition and reappear on the opposite hill tops overlooking C and B. Why bother rolling through the middle of the map letting everyone know where you are when digression is the better part of valour? I agree spending your entire time in the redline is rather shall we say.....lame...and attempting to snipe out of it to get kills is worse but it's a terrain tool like everything else that can be used to help you move around to different lanes of attack. I'm saying that. Camping in the redline is what gets to me. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:22:00 - [34] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Yes, a tank should require multiple people to down. But a tank should also require multiple people to defend itself. Look at Titans in Eve. IT takes a whole bunch of people to kill them. But they need others to support them or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Going to be making a thread on revamping how tanks play soon. Thank YOU!! Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:25:00 - [35] - Quote MUNSON MANCHILD wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank. But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. So if I'm running around the map, and some random dude pulls out a basic tank, with crap mods, I shouldn't be able to kill his tank? What if he has no skills in tanks? My suit is proto, and so are my weapons, with SP sank into them. Dude with no skills running militia tanks should be able to roll out in a tank, kill a bunch of clones, do nothing for his team, and this is ok? You do realize I'm basing my argument off of investment right? Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9322	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:26:00 - [36] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Yes, a tank should require multiple people to down. But a tank should also require multiple people to defend itself. Look at Titans in Eve. IT takes a whole bunch of people to kill them. But they need others to support them or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. Going to be making a thread on revamping how tanks play soon. Thank YOU!! I would be ok if tanks needed multiple people to defend them, but they don't. They can solo and take on several people no problem. Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9322	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:33:00 - [37] - Quote This is from a tanker. Mathematical impossibilities for AV is a problem. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 00:37:00 - [38] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Tank can 2 shot my Python I can fire my whole reserve of XT missile launchers into a proto tank and it will not die. Even the double hardener fit seems to outrep my pathetic fire rate when the hardeners are down! GG because that's fair. Meanwhile tank continued to lol at my equally sp intensive vehicle which requires more skill to pilot then proceeds to 2 shot me from 200m in the redline. GG because that's fair. As for solo av on ground, just throw lai dais and remotes on a road Dropships are in a bad place arm everyone knows this maddies are super op atm everyone knows this. But what I'm getting at is why an av player should be able to destroy my tank in a low isk suit I bel ADSs should be able to destroy me. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 482	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:01:00 - [39] - Quote If you can't kill a basic tank, you are doing it wrong. Just saying.
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 482	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:02:00 - [40] - Quote Also, people tend to forget if you take on a tank v. tank, you CAN and SHOULD have AV riding with you. Have them hop out and down the super repper Madrugar while you pound them with rail/missile. Also TEAMWORK will take down ANY tank!!!

Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 482	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:04:00 - [41] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: This is from a tanker. Mathematical impossibilities for AV is a problem. Also, hardeners are MEANT to provide durability for extended engagements but they are not permanent. If he runs BOTH, then he WILL have to back off when they go down. If he runs ONE, then you can down him EASILY with focused AV fire. If he is PROTO he is supposed to be hard to kill! My god, the dumbasses are taking over and they want nothing more than to make tanks of ALL tiers easy-mode to kill.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8699	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:14:00 - [42] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: 2x= 1y but 2x = 3y as well. Pilots smart. And you can too! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3166	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:52:00 - [43] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: This is from a tanker. Mathematical impossibilities for AV is a problem. What tanker? Breakin is a spreadsheet warrior. All he does is make sheets and comment about numbers, he doesn't use vehicles. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3166	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:53:00 - [44] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: They can solo and take on several people no problem. Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now. Maybe you should stop using the MLT Anti Armor suit against people that have 60mil SP into vehicles. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:54:00 - [45] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: One Eyed King wrote: They can solo and take on several people no problem. Get us to a place where tanks need 2 or 3 people defending it and I am fine with the hardeners. But they are NOT at that place now. Maybe you should stop using the MLT Anti Armor suit against people that have 60mil SP into vehicles. No. Go away. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:59:00 - [46] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: This is from a tanker. Mathematical impossibilities for AV is a problem. Might I ask you why are you guys giving all you got on a hardened tank? Just a tip shoot at the tank if he puts up his hardener stop wait until he's weak then wail on him. That's like throwing rocks at a steel wall and asking why your not hitting the people on the other side. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
IVIaster LUKE Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 789	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:59:00 - [47] - Quote No Guts/No Glory Switch to Remotes Charges at tank Like an 8 year old about to open presents on Christmas. Gets killed immediately! WTF!!! $&@?! Rush...Rush for my Yayo! Don't fear the Reaper. =ƒÆÇ
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6455	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:04:00 - [48] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:05:00 - [49] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. He has a point... Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3166	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:05:00 - [50] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff

SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6455	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:08:00 - [51] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:10:00 - [52] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6457	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:14:00 - [53] - Quote I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are. To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing. That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else. What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5786	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:14:00 - [54] - Quote I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 497	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:15:00 - [55] - Quote Not all tanks are uniform. That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE. Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank. In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight. ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank. You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs. You ask why we don't use lower grades? BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper. Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win. They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways.
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 497	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:15:00 - [56] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths.
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6457	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:16:00 - [57] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain. It's a tactical shooter. If you spam equipment - I use flux. If you use shield - I use Amarr You go tanks - I go AV it shouldn't be you go tanks so do I. It shouldn't be you go AR so I have to too. it shouldn't be you used a DS so now I have to too to deal with you. That is not how this game is balanced. For every decision you make to make yourself more powerful an equalally effect counter-measure exists if someone sets themselves up properly. Copying that suit and fit to keep up is absurd. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 497	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:16:00 - [58] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are. To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing. That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else. What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept. Even though a solo AV'r will have trouble killing a solid Proto fit tank, he WILL be able to suppress and provide Area Denial, even for a bit.
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6457	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:18:00 - [59] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Not all tanks are uniform. That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE. Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank. In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight. ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank. You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs. You ask why we don't use lower grades? BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper. Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win. They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 497	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:18:00 - [60] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain. It's a tactical shooter. If you spam equipment - I use flux. If you use shield - I use Amarr You go tanks - I go AV it shouldn't be you go tanks so do I. It shouldn't be you go AR so I have to too. it shouldn't be you used a DS so now I have to too to deal with you. That is not how this game is balanced. For every decision you make to make yourself more powerful an equalally effect counter-measure exists if someone sets themselves up properly. Copying that suit and fit to keep up is absurd. Not all tanks are the same. Not all answers to the tank are the same. Just saying. Tanks have a HUGE variety to them and if you can't bring powerful enough AV, try a tank. Or maybe MAYBE have a squad of people who can ALSO switch AV and roll with them. The best squads I run into do that well.



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