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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
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6447
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not sure why with Proto Tanks they'd feel that way.
Before my AV suit cost nearly as much as that tank - but now that tank price is way higher.
Thus, the effectiveness should scale as a result.
But it's still absurd, it forces both sides to field a dedicate tanker or get team rolled because AV wouldn't be enough without numbers, which takes away from the ground-fight. That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, nullifying the AV role for infantry as more anti-air then AV.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6451
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Posted - 2015.04.12 23:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent.
Any reason it shouldn't be?
I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant.
Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation?
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6455
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again.
I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation.
If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot.
But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. 
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6455
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it.
I see a huge problem with it.
For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are.
To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing.
That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else.
What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, That's what we want, and I don't see any problem with it. I see a huge problem with it. For every move is a counter, you shouldn't need to spam what they spam to keep up. Spkr, go away. Your blind. But I don't believe that is true , SoTa, explain.
It's a tactical shooter.
If you spam equipment - I use flux.
If you use shield - I use Amarr
You go tanks - I go AV
it shouldn't be you go tanks so do I.
It shouldn't be you go AR so I have to too.
it shouldn't be you used a DS so now I have to too to deal with you. That is not how this game is balanced. For every decision you make to make yourself more powerful an equalally effect counter-measure exists if someone sets themselves up properly.
Copying that suit and fit to keep up is absurd.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6457
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways.
Mary, this is simply not true.
A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it.
I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are.
To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your **** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing.
That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else.
What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept. Even though a solo AV'r will have trouble killing a solid Proto fit tank, he WILL be able to suppress and provide Area Denial, even for a bit.
That is true, but it's only a bit. It doesn't last long, the AVer will get crushed, and then the tanker will move on, and his CD's will give him constantly recharging "oh **** get out of here" buttons.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Not all tanks are uniform.
That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE.
Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank.
In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that
you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight.
ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank.
You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs.
You ask why we don't use lower grades?
BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper.
Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win.
They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd. 2 hardener, damage mod Sica is a cheap way to aggress tanks. You can lose 10 of them before you even match the loss of one Proto tank. Cheap and effective.
Oh? Well, that's at least good to hear for pub matches.
In PC matches - it doesn't balance out so nicely when you're aiming for a win. You'll be spending a lot of time calling in more vehicles then being useful.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6460
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable.
Go PC more and find that reasonable.
That's not reasonable at all, this game sucks enough to be putting people off of the fun roles to play the unfun ones of chasing down tanks and camping roofs with forges.
If people want a more vehicle focused game mode then CCP should make a vehicle version of ambush so you guys can enjoy what you do together. But it hurts the battlefield when allocations to vehicles who can only camp are needed.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6461
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Posted - 2015.04.13 02:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live?
uhm. This isn't the real world, and those numbers only mean something to us subjectively to our own connotations to what those words mean. We do not understand the alloy used in tank material or the efficiency of anything to determine what can or cannot happen on a realistic level.
You then balance it based on gameplay - and this is a tactical shooter of 16 vs 16. If it was 32 vs 32 - it wouldn't mean so much allocating 2-3 resources against 1 - but in smaller number games it matters a lot. In one spot where you're forced into a 2v3 situation you may be losing that objective because you put 2 AVs on one tank doing nothing, making it a 14 vs 15. And the enemy could spam tanks, making you lose 1 extra player for every tank they field.
Think before you talk, son.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6462
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Posted - 2015.04.13 04:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation....
Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. Allow me to spell out my thoughts for you in a non-facetious manner: *ISK is not nearly as important as people say it is. In the balance equation, I think fools put too much weight on the ISK variable. Which is to say, ISK is not nearly as integral as people think. Evidently, I need to be more blatant in my facetiousness, lest imbeciles think I am actually attempting to contribute to the discussion in earnest. *May contain peanuts or an opinion [Edit] and in case useless forum people are wondering, because I deem ISK less important, vehicle prices should be less high.
yes, yes, we all understood you the first time, mr intelligent. You don't think ISK is the most important balancing issue.
You're correct in sense, because the problem is tanks should be solo'd. For gameplay sake - but does it make sense that a tanker paid over a million for his set up and you paid 150k for yours and you solo'd him?
Why would people ever play tanker again?
ISK is important, if not equally as important as any 'important' issue you may deem worthy.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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SoTa PoP
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
6472
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player.
This is pretty much bottom line for gameplay sake.
But for the sake of sense and sanity - ISK has to be scaled down more so tankers don't feel the impact of everything they're losing to that solo combat.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
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