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Why do AVers still believe in 1v1 against tanks.

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Mary Sedillo Eternal Beings 498	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:19:00 - [61] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Not all tanks are uniform. That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE. Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank. In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight. ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank. You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs. You ask why we don't use lower grades? BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper. Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win. They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd. 2 hardener, damage mod Sica is a cheap way to aggress tanks. You can lose 10 of them before you even match the loss of one Proto tank. Cheap and effective.
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6460	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:19:00 - [62] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: I've stayed out of the tanks discussions because I know how different the opinions of a 'tank' are. To me, it's another role, it's like putting on a suit, but it's bigger, faster, and a bigger gun. And it comes with a leave your ** button so you can run out be and semi-useful as something else of your choosing. That's a one person role - and it shouldn't take a group efforts in suits that disable them for helping in any other fashion on the battlefield. It's not like dealing with heavies - what kills a heavy will kill everything else. What kills tanks - won't. So it makes no sense to balance them around the heavy concept. Even though a solo AV'r will have trouble killing a solid Proto fit tank, he WILL be able to suppress and provide Area Denial, even for a bit. That is true, but it's only a bit. It doesn't last long, the AVer will get crushed, and then the tanker will move on, and his CD's will give him constantly recharging "oh ** get out of here" buttons. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6460	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:20:00 - [63] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Not all tanks are uniform. That makes the whole = it takes a take to kill a tank = argument FALSE. Even a sica can threaten and suppress a tank. In any case, teamwork and effort will down a tank regardless, and if not that you will SUPPRESS the tank and keep him out of the fight. ISK is a part of it, anyways. You want us to die often, drop the cost of the tank. You CANNOT expect us to lose 1.4 million tanks regularly in PUBs. You ask why we don't use lower grades? BECAUSE AV can sweep ADV and lower tanks like paper. Anyways, this has been an issue, and mostly the AV win. They get buffed, we get EHP nerfs. Anyways. Mary, this is simply not true. A sica is no match against a tank more powerful, will get completely stomped, and then the team will be in trouble for it. I don't care about pubs when I speak - I speak of PC matches where tankers are legit. This kind of balancing is absurd. 2 hardener, damage mod Sica is a cheap way to aggress tanks. You can lose 10 of them before you even match the loss of one Proto tank. Cheap and effective. Oh? Well, that's at least good to hear for pub matches. In PC matches - it doesn't balance out so nicely when you're aiming for a win. You'll be spending a lot of time calling in more vehicles then being useful. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:20:00 - [64] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6460	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:23:00 - [65] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable. Go PC more and find that reasonable. That's not reasonable at all, this game sucks enough to be putting people off of the fun roles to play the unfun ones of chasing down tanks and camping roofs with forges. If people want a more vehicle focused game mode then CCP should make a vehicle version of ambush so you guys can enjoy what you do together. But it hurts the battlefield when allocations to vehicles who can only camp are needed. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1629	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:23:00 - [66] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Zepod wrote: If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage. I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again. ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle. On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots. Because, that's why.
Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 60	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:36:00 - [67] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18200	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:39:00 - [68] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live? No you'd probably see them shooting rounds down range from in excess of 1 or 2km and destroying entire buildings. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5690	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:40:00 - [69] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: I'm not sure why with Proto Tanks they'd feel that way. Before my AV suit cost nearly as much as that tank - but now that tank price is way higher. Thus, the effectiveness should scale as a result. But it's still absurd, it forces both sides to field a dedicate tanker or get team rolled because AV wouldn't be enough without numbers, which takes away from the ground-fight. That forces your side to use tanks to counter tanks, nullifying the AV role for infantry as more anti-air then AV. Unless its manus peak or bridge map, tanks are shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Call me when they can remotely hack a point. Usually banned for being too awesome.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18200	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:45:00 - [70] - Quote Manus Peak best map! GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City

SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6461	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:46:00 - [71] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? because expensive things are usually for show, and if you are using a shiny tank that cost an amount that you are gonna cry over after someone makes it go boom my shiny rockets/plasma balls/kinetic slugs, that are made to take you out should do what their descriptions say they do for example "powered by a Gemini microprocessor the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems" the point being if you are a good tanker you can deal with all these threats and not have to be babied about so you can survive a match don't use the price as an excuse if you can't afford to use it don't use it if it takes a forge gun enough time to recharge that you can easily use to take cover from then I need to be able to take you out quick before you take cover, swarms take time to lock on, time you can use to evade and even if you get locked on you can take cover and not even take damage if you are dumb enough to be caught out in the open without support then you should get what you deserve in a real world war do you see tanks going in alone with one guy driving and expect them to live? uhm. This isn't the real world, and those numbers only mean something to us subjectively to our own connotations to what those words mean. We do not understand the alloy used in tank material or the efficiency of anything to determine what can or cannot happen on a realistic level. You then balance it based on gameplay - and this is a tactical shooter of 16 vs 16. If it was 32 vs 32 - it wouldn't mean so much allocating 2-3 resources against 1 - but in smaller number games it matters a lot. In one spot where you're forced into a 2v3 situation you may be losing that objective because you put 2 AVs on one tank doing nothing, making it a 14 vs 15. And the enemy could spam tanks, making you lose 1 extra player for every tank they field. Think before you talk, son. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Ronin Merc Defenders of the Helghast Dream 27	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:57:00 - [72] - Quote I do it cause I can. And sometimes I succeed. I just love to see mighty tanks run from a cheap auut. Shows what kind cowards some tankers can be.
Vicious Minotaur 2298	Posted - 2015.04.13 03:08:00 - [73] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. Allow me to spell out my thoughts for you in a non-facetious manner: ISK is not nearly as important as people say it is. In the balance equation, I think fools put too much weight on the ISK variable. Which is to say, ISK is not nearly as integral as people think. Evidently, I need to be more blatant in my facetiousness, lest imbeciles think I am actually attempting to contribute to the discussion in earnest. May contain peanuts or an opinion I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 593	Posted - 2015.04.13 03:40:00 - [74] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank. But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. Apparently, infantry can't stay indoors with the mostly inacessible objectives, can't jump to the clouds and back, can't cloak, can't also use a tank, can't get someone to run AV with them and can't go around obstacles. It's not like they removed tanks from both ambushes. COME ON! That's crazy talk. Yes, tanks are just too OP. Death is a serious businessGÇª So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6462	Posted - 2015.04.13 04:20:00 - [75] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I get the feeling like some think ISK should be an integral part of the balance equation.... Well, we can't all be cool and intelligent. Any reason it shouldn't be? I would love the logic and reasoning to why 5 dollars is worth 1 dollar. Because that's what you're arguing to be irrelevant. Or are you too stupid to see the reasoning to why ISK is a balancing equation? I never said it shouldn't be. Please, become literate and try again. I don't see anything wrong with my reading, you literally say ISK isn't an integral part of the balance equation. If you meant to say something else, then by all means, say it. Otherwise, you kinda look like an idiot. But like you said, not everyone can be cool and intelligent. Allow me to spell out my thoughts for you in a non-facetious manner: ISK is not nearly as important as people say it is. In the balance equation, I think fools put too much weight on the ISK variable. Which is to say, ISK is not nearly as integral as people think. Evidently, I need to be more blatant in my facetiousness, lest imbeciles think I am actually attempting to contribute to the discussion in earnest. May contain peanuts or an opinion [Edit] and in case useless forum people are wondering, because I deem ISK less important, vehicle prices should be less high. yes, yes, we all understood you the first time, mr intelligent. You don't think ISK is the most important balancing issue. You're correct in sense, because the problem is tanks should be solo'd. For gameplay sake - but does it make sense that a tanker paid over a million for his set up and you paid 150k for yours and you solo'd him? Why would people ever play tanker again? ISK is important, if not equally as important as any 'important' issue you may deem worthy. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 545	Posted - 2015.04.13 05:42:00 - [76] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think a solo AVer should be able to kill an HAV if the pilot of said HAV is a total moron. If they know what they're doing however, it should take 2-3 AVers to deal with said HAV. And that happens to be what I notice regularly kills good tanks. 2-3 proto, organized AV, usually camping his retreat paths. And I think that's reasonable. Go PC more and find that reasonable. That's not reasonable at all, this game sucks enough to be putting people off of the fun roles to play the unfun ones of chasing down tanks and camping roofs with forges. If people want a more vehicle focused game mode then CCP should make a vehicle version of ambush so you guys can enjoy what you do together. But it hurts the battlefield when allocations to vehicles who can only camp are needed. Agreed. Half the time I see Vehicle threads and complaints of AV being too powerful or not powerful enough... However, the core issue here is powerful vehicles in a game with infantry. If the vehicles pop too easy the pilots complain. They drive/fly around and shoot infantry that cannot shoot back with out the proper gear, and being more mobile means they can easily escape if they do not get greedy. KDR machines, little risk and high KDR returns. On the other end is the AV infantry player, who end up losing more isk in the long run and have much worse KDR's to show for their efforts. That is exactly where the imbalance begins, and the source of such passionate arguments from both sides. Player experience. http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
DDx77 The Exemplars 192	Posted - 2015.04.13 05:47:00 - [77] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank. But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. ( my thoughts are based on strong experienced tanker/dropship pilots) First of all if your a tanker and you get killed 1v1 you are an idiot The funny thing to me is not how easily I die to vehicles, it's that he AV vs vehicle relationship is dumb Tanks / dropships are too weak And Infantry should not have to gimp themselves to fight vehicles Do I have to explain how stupid it is that when you show up with you nigh invulnerable tank I have to go to a supply depot to get a av weapon but most likely die? Even if I win it's very frustrating As a tanker or dropship you have the advantage in every situation (especially tankers) You say, "hey dumb AV guy, you should need teamwork to kill a tank" Ok so how many players? 3 av? Ok (So I devote 3 players and make them weaker to other infantry to attack 1 player in a 16vs 16 match?) Side note, what happens when you spam av and it's 3 or 4 vehicles? So now it's 3 per vehicle and it's 9 players to fight 3 vehicles? Or 12 players vs 4?... so now those av teams are vastly outgunned by 6 or 8 enemy infantry that are attacking Are you using teamwork too? No? - Then you are in trouble but by no means dead - You can run away! Like no problem! - You can also - wait for it - jump out of your tank either before it's destroyed or to catch those pesky av infantry off guard and get the Easiest kill of your life Team work, yes? You are probably going to steamroll the opposition Those 3 av are dead either by you or the infantry you came in with that are practically invincible due to the fact that they are AV focused suits Don't get me wrong, I do think your argument is valid but the fact that in this strange cyber future universe I have to run to a depot to get my very unrewarding av fit to probably only make you retreat is pretty stupid If it were up to me, I'd make tanks and dropships much tougher to bring down but also allow infantry to at least be able to equip swarms as a sidearm And the people that are going to bring up the commandos... oh yeah the minmando, and gal plasma commando wow, those are so cool right? And slow and killed very easily unless you are a specialist in that role May the Dark shine your way
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8036	Posted - 2015.04.13 10:29:00 - [78] - Quote It's very simple. When there is no viable infantry counter, tanks automatically win. Infantry get farmed. People decide it's not fun. They quit. but this has never been important. The team with the most tanks wins. And since only five people can run them, that means 11 other people have no recourse other than to get repeatedly farmed. Gee. That's fking fun and engaging gameplay I tell ya. AV
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game RUST415 110	Posted - 2015.04.13 10:37:00 - [79] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: I mean before maybe because they costed less, but I mean now... no. Your at most like 150k suit killing a 1.3 million tank? No. You should require teamwork to kill a tank. And please don't tell me "We get killed so much trying to kill it." I get killed by vehicles and infrantry too... while hacking an objective, being a logi (not a heavy slaver I might add), ect. There's no excuse for you to even be solo killing an adv tank. But of course that's my opinion and I'm open for someone to prove me wrong. Everyone can drive a" proto" tank ( it s about skill points) if you are good you know which target shoot and when, if you are not my proof 5 forgegun can still kill your tank solo ( helping with flux/Av nades) , maybe AV nades are way too good but they were OP pre 1.7, now atleast you have passive reps Alt of H0riz0n Unlimit, DMG director, FOTM chaser
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5344	Posted - 2015.04.13 10:52:00 - [80] - Quote If it only takes one man to drive a tank, it should only take one man to kill one. It is totally possible to kill a proto suit with mlt, even if the proto suit costs 100x as much. Isk should never be a balancing factor. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!

WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 336	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:26:00 - [81] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Zepod wrote: If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. The players in tanks can kill everything and then hack an objective, they can suppress far more than a single infantry unit and still progress forward, taking ground, limiting enemy movement more, etc. Tanks have just as many tactical options as infantry, they just have different tactical strengths and weakness where they are worse at completing something, such as usually having a weak suit when entering small spaces, being strong in open spaces. Specialized infantry strengths are inverted in that example, etc. Specialized infantry can hack faster, less period of vulnerability, compared to a tank player that hops out of a tank.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 6045	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:31:00 - [82] - Quote Just to further beat a thoroughly dead and bludgeoned horse, as someone who tanked as far back as the E3 build, I still feel that HAVs should follow LAVs in having separate driver and gunner seats. A solo HAV is basically just a giant super-tanked dropsuit. /me leaves before the tankers start screaming I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1245	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:31:00 - [83] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Zepod wrote: If 2x = 1y, there's no actual reason to use x in any scenario with a remote amount of importance. But only X can take points and X has tactical flexibility that Y does not have available. You might play that way but y is actually xy, you can run any dropsuit inside your tank that I run without one, pop out of your tank and we are equal, pop back in and you have every advantage. I know you run team tanks and your invincibility extends to your gunners, so they can hop out and hack stuff or run inside a building then hop back in and be safe and have the power of the tank again. ISK should get you an advantage but just like the rest of Dust it should be subject to diminishing returns. Proto weapons cost 40X the cost of STD yet only provide a 10% increase in damage. A 5X ISK difference between vehicles and dropsuits buys a 100% increase in power, this is breaking the very principle. On the other hand, a tanker can take 3 or 4 games to pay for a tank, if they are balanced, they are too expensive to run. I think vehicles and turrets should drop way down in price, the tanks besides the Madrugar w/hardeners are about where they should be. The ADS is not far off and regular DS could use a little more HP and LAV's could use more fitting slots. Oh dear... Never driven a tank have you? You hop out of a tank to hack a point, either A. An ally took the tank. B. Your tank got hacked. C. Your tank was blown up. or D. It's still sitting there. In order of likelyhood A: 50% B 15% C 25% D 10% From what I've had when trying this. More often than not, someone who is in a tank, does not run full expense gear. Kind of stupid to do that when you're already running a high expense that can go boom. If the tanker gets out about 70% of the time I've been able to kill them with my ground setups. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 6115	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:38:00 - [84] - Quote Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1456	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:47:00 - [85] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: There should never be a role in which the risk/rewards are out of balance. I think I'm in the minority of people who feel this way. Nothing should be prohibitively expensive, in general. Obviously, high tiers should be more, and if we're looking at PRO being relatively unsustainable in public then they need to cost a reasonable amount more. But currently, there are some incredible risk/reward situations in the game, and I mean incredible in that it's hard to believe that they're there. A STD HAV will cost roughly the same a kitted out PRO Dropsuit and will do more and less. But this is a STD tier piece of equipment - if it's to be killable by solo AV, then it needs to cost far less, otherwise it is almost entirely oointless to run one. ADSs have, for a long time, been very precariously perched on the risk/reward scale. They can potentially never die,but they can also get blapped in a second and cost as much as an ADV HAV. Part of the issue here is no tiers. Logis are sort of on the opposite end if the spectrum: with their equipment they can rake in a large amount of WP, and thus a large payout, even using STD gear. While they have low levels of resilience and relatively poor offence, they're capable of pulling in way above their weight (debatable; Logis can sometimes be so incredibly vital that it justifies their payout, sometimes they're worhkess and not worth 100k.) Commandos are generally quite low on the reward side, being, for lack of a better phrase, jumped up assault suits. They're technically tougher but the combination of speed and hitbox makes them vastly more vulnerable, and thus more risky. Essentially, risk/reward balance is very off kilter at the moment. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 6047	Posted - 2015.04.13 13:55:00 - [86] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. Exactly why I support separating the driver of the tank from the main gun. That would effectively mean that a Gunnlogi or Madrugar would have 4 players inside it, thus justifying it being able to stay on the field even with multiple AV users shooting at it. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1246	Posted - 2015.04.13 14:16:00 - [87] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. If you can force engagements to be exclusively 1 AV vs 1 Tank. go right ahead. CAN you force such a thing? If this is not possible, then what you proclaimed is not possible either. Dropsuits can have 1v1 engagements. Those are the majority of encounters. I've never seen a tank without at least 2 AV tracking it at any one time. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1093	Posted - 2015.04.13 14:31:00 - [88] - Quote I watched a dude tear tanks up with a plc yesterday , at least I think that is what he was using. I got some nice guardian assists from it. Was pretty wild, i'm not sure if he was using something else too like RE..I didn't see any. He would just pop up and fire only 2 shots in quick succession and boom dead tank. He killed 5 that way on objective. Mind was blown. I rarely ever kill solo , I mainly just annoy them and make them back away..which is just as good for me.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2241	Posted - 2015.04.13 18:53:00 - [89] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: I watched a dude tear tanks up with a plc yesterday , at least I think that is what he was using. I got some nice guardian assists from it. Was pretty wild, i'm not sure if he was using something else too like RE..I didn't see any. He would just pop up and fire only 2 shots in quick succession and boom dead tank. He killed 5 that way on objective. Mind was blown. I rarely ever kill solo , I mainly just annoy them and make them back away..which is just as good for me. Kubo's Plasma Cannon (officer) Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. If you can force engagements to be exclusively 1 AV vs 1 Tank. go right ahead. CAN you force such a thing? If this is not possible, then what you proclaimed is not possible either. Dropsuits can have 1v1 engagements. Those are the majority of encounters. I've never seen a tank without at least 2 AV tracking it at any one time. Do you even make sense to yourself? 1 v 1 not being forcible doesn't have jack sh!t to do with one player equaling one player being possible or not. I see blueberries Rated [TV-MA]
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6472	Posted - 2015.04.13 18:58:00 - [90] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Because allowing HAVs to require multiple people to kill would by default make them the most powerful class in the game. Balance requires that one player equal one player. This is pretty much bottom line for gameplay sake. But for the sake of sense and sanity - ISK has to be scaled down more so tankers don't feel the impact of everything they're losing to that solo combat. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot



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