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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1545
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Posted - 2015.03.11 14:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Until I see mathematical numbers and accurate proof/evidence stop complaining about the ScR being OP.
Is it super efficient? Yes
Does hear build up really effect how quickly you kill? Yes unless your a good shot.
The combat rifle is just... Well, it's very effective against armor but if your strafing and not a min assault your wasting a bunch of shots if you tend to miss a lot. Otherwise it's an awesome weapon.
The ScR should have its damage looked at towards armor IMO but that's up to CCP and how many people ***** about it.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
6633
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Posted - 2015.03.11 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. |
tal mrak-thanl
Aethan Dor
198
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hotfix Echo = scrambler514. I think a lot of people that haven't already are going to skill the scrambler to take advantage of the buffed up assault variant. Guess it's time to take plates to 5. |
thehellisgoingon
MONSTER SYNERGY
345
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
A charged shot that's well aimed to the dome will end your happy dance. But it's not op. I miss and overheat then committed suicide. Dose your gun kill you? |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2951
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever.
By this logic, any sniper rifle, forge gun and Tac Ar should be nerfed  oh, and the TacAr is way better than the scrambler when it comes to fighting good-tank suits
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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Summa Militum
Hidd3n Dragon
243
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
tal mrak-thanl wrote:Hotfix Echo = scrambler514. I think a lot of people that haven't already are going to skill the scrambler to take advantage of the buffed up assault variant. Guess it's time to take plates to 5.
I hope they boost the Assault Variant. The Assault Scrambler Rifle blows. |
LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2652
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5828
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Are you freaking serious!?!?! Prime example of people talking from their asses right here
"the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
That's like saying " oh the magazine size doesn't matter since everything dies within one magazine "
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LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2652
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Are you freaking serious!?!?! Prime example of people talking from their asses right here
Better than the ScR for sure, which was my intended point.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5828
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Are you freaking serious!?!?! Prime example of people talking from their asses right here Better than the ScR for sure, which was my intended point.
The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
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LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
317
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Are you freaking serious!?!?! Prime example of people talking from their asses right here Better than the ScR for sure, which was my intended point. The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
Yes, too high for both weapons. It's less a problem on the TAC because the gun has recoil/kick while the scambler has roughly none. |
LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2652
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:
The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
Sure they may, but the ScR is easier to handle, thus making it better at damage application. Also, it does not have a charge function, which is an essential part of the ScR's attack. Charge up and lead with an enormous hit, obliterate armor and whatever shields may be left with a barrage of shots.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4433
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever.
If it was OP it'd be nerfed - every other OP thing's been getting it.
In the end, we can argue about it all we want; until Rattati says otherwise it ain't OP.
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5828
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:
The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
Sure they may, but the ScR is easier to handle, thus making it better at damage application. Also, it does not have a charge function, which is an essential part of the ScR's attack. Charge up and lead with an enormous hit, obliterate armor and whatever shields may be left with a barrage of shots.
Which is balanced because it wouldn't be able to do that to more than 1 person at a time.
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LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Are you freaking serious!?!?! Prime example of people talking from their asses right here Better than the ScR for sure, which was my intended point. The TAC and Scr have the same RoF Yes, too high for both weapons. It's less a problem on the TAC because the gun has recoil/kick while the scambler has roughly none.
ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical.
TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though.
So the ScR has more kick.
Home at Last <3
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2652
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical. TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though. So the ScR has more kick.
Which do you think is easier to handle and land shots, one where you know where the sight is going, or one where it is random?
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
318
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical. TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though. So the ScR has more kick.
Maybe you're right, but my point is that it's ten times easier to hit with a scrambler when spamming the trigger. Be it because the kick is vertical or not I don't care, only the final result matters. Moreover, the ScR doesn't need any skill to get that low recoil, while the TAC does. |
Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5829
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Posted - 2015.03.11 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical. TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though. So the ScR has more kick. Maybe you're right, but my point is that it's ten times easier to hit with a scrambler when spamming the trigger. Be it because the kick is vertical or not I don't care, only the final result matters. Moreover, the ScR doesn't need any skill to get that low recoil, while the TAC does.
The TAC doesn't need any skill to shoot 24 bullets but the Scr does.
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LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
319
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical. TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though. So the ScR has more kick. Maybe you're right, but my point is that it's ten times easier to hit with a scrambler when spamming the trigger. Be it because the kick is vertical or not I don't care, only the final result matters. Moreover, the ScR doesn't need any skill to get that low recoil, while the TAC does. The TAC doesn't need any skill to shoot 24 bullets but the Scr does.
True, but that's needed only if you miss your shots.
I've played a few games with the MKII frontline suit and even without the heat reduction I was dropping down my opponents easily except Amarr heavies. Just switch to your smg when you're gonna overheat, you'll still get the kill faster than any other gun |
Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2562
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:ScR has more kick, but the kick is perfectly vertical. TacAR has less kick, but the kick is more random (about 30-45-¦ of random, by what I can tell) The operation skill,and that Galassault bonus reduce the kick to "roughly none", though. So the ScR has more kick. Which do you think is easier to handle and land shots, one where you know where the sight is going, or one where it is random?
Depends.
With AR operation to Level 4-5? TacAR, by a little bit. And AR operation 4 is required to use Tacs, so yeah.
Slap that ***** on a Galassault? TacAR runs away with the trophy. The kick is practically not even there.
Meanwhile, ScRs ha NO skills or modules or anything of any sort to reduce their kick from what it is.
So TacARs win, practically all the time, with the one exception being a AUR purchased GLU-5 where the user doesn't yet have AR Operation to 4...
Home at Last <3
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
40
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
248.5 for charge shot
13 shots before overheating.
71*13 as fast as you can pull the trigger
lets say you miss half your shots rounded down for even more unfairness.
71*6 = 426
at worst 248.5 + 426 = 674.5 damage in 2-4 seconds.
at best 248.5 + 923 = 1171.5 damage in 2-4 seconds.
numbers not bulls**t??
Its ok, I'm a ninja
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
40
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
thehellisgoingon wrote:A charged shot that's well aimed to the dome will end your happy dance. But it's not op. I miss and overheat then committed suicide. Dose your gun kill you?
It doesn't kill you if you miss and if you miss you jump into cover and try again a few seconds later.
where's the risk?
Its ok, I'm a ninja
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
40
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. If it was OP it'd be nerfed - every other OP thing's been getting it. In the end, we can argue about it all we want; until Rattati says otherwise it ain't OP.
Your suggesting games developers don't make mistakes? then why do patches exist?
Its ok, I'm a ninja
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
40
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:Until I see mathematical numbers and accurate proof/evidence stop complaining about the ScR being OP.
Is it super efficient? Yes
Does hear build up really effect how quickly you kill? Yes unless your a good shot.
The combat rifle is just... Well, it's very effective against armor but if your strafing and not a min assault your wasting a bunch of shots if you tend to miss a lot. Otherwise it's an awesome weapon.
The ScR should have its damage looked at towards armor IMO but that's up to CCP and how many people ***** about it.
I would also point out due to the mixed utility with the charge and the overhear and the damage and the shots rate tehis is not a weapon you can judge to be OP or not BASED ON THE NUMBERS.
you have to just look at gameplay videos and the raw data like how many killstreak's players are earning with this weapon compared to every other across the whole game of dust. its complicated
Its ok, I'm a ninja
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All Gucci
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
RISE of LEGION
213
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Posted - 2015.03.11 16:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cypher Nil wrote:thehellisgoingon wrote:A charged shot that's well aimed to the dome will end your happy dance. But it's not op. I miss and overheat then committed suicide. Dose your gun kill you? It doesn't kill you if you miss and if you miss you jump into cover and try again a few seconds later. where's the risk?
so your beef is with people using cover? lmao
Director / Slayer / Emperor
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
3802
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. By this logic, any sniper rifle, forge gun and Tac Ar should be nerfed oh, and the TacAr is way better than the scrambler when it comes to fighting good-tank suits
Tac was nerfed
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
6638
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. By this logic, any sniper rifle [...] should be nerfed [...]
Lmao that's a good one, bro! |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
RISE of LEGION
489
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. If it was OP it'd be nerfed - every other OP thing's been getting it. In the end, we can argue about it all we want; until Rattati says otherwise it ain't OP.
He did say it was OP. |
P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1314
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Joel II X wrote:Super efficient = OP last time I checked, but whatever. By this logic, any sniper rifle, forge gun and Tac Ar should be nerfed oh, and the TacAr is way better than the scrambler when it comes to fighting good-tank suits Tac was nerfed
And rebuffed..
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
363
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:Until I see mathematical numbers and accurate proof/evidence stop complaining about the ScR being OP.
Is it super efficient? Yes
Does hear build up really effect how quickly you kill? Yes unless your a good shot.
The combat rifle is just... Well, it's very effective against armor but if your strafing and not a min assault your wasting a bunch of shots if you tend to miss a lot. Otherwise it's an awesome weapon.
The ScR should have its damage looked at towards armor IMO but that's up to CCP and how many people ***** about it.
the efficiency is not the issue, it is the turbo abuse and charge glitch. on its own it is a decent weapon with a place that it belongs. with the turbo controller it becomes OP.
there is no way to really catch the turbo controller as occasionally your game will glitch for other people making it look/sound like you are charging the weapon.
What role does the shotgun have in team play? NONE. Remove it.
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
RISE of LEGION
2137
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
You should always try the weapon before claiming it's OP. I suspect a lot of people in this thread have never used a SCR above MLT.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Dreis(Ishukone Nova Knives)CCPArchduke
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
364
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:You should always try the weapon before claiming it's OP. I suspect a lot of people in this thread have never used a SCR above MLT.
i think a slight decrease in RoF is needed to combat the turbo controllers that are growing in popularity but other than that abuse i have no issue with it
What role does the shotgun have in team play? NONE. Remove it.
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Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2627
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
You're right, scramblers are OP! That's why people are skilling into AmAssault and scramblers instead of MinAssault and combat rifles!
Wait...
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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tal mrak-thanl
Aethan Dor
201
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Everybody skilling into Minmatar assaults and fitting ferroscales probably has a lot to do with the perception that the ScR is OP. Anyway, I could see the Amarr Assault being the next fotm, if the AScR buff is as big as it sounds. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
RISE of LEGION
490
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:You're right, scramblers are OP! That's why people are skilling into AmAssault and scramblers instead of MinAssault and combat rifles!
Wait...
Well Ive been trying to open up some discussion of the min assault, because I think its overpowered in some kind of less noticeable ways (such as stamina gain) that make it very good overall, but that doesnt really mean anything to the scrambler rifle discussion. The thing is overpowered, Im not sure why anyone is convinced it isnt. Im using it with a normal non-turbo controller with no damage mods on a non-amarr assault, and its still an absolute rapetrian on anything that isnt sitting at like 800 armor health. |
Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2189
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Posted - 2015.03.11 19:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:
The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
Sure they may, but the ScR is easier to handle, thus making it better at damage application. Also, it does not have a charge function, which is an essential part of the ScR's attack. Charge up and lead with an enormous hit, obliterate armor and whatever shields may be left with a barrage of shots. Which is balanced because it wouldn't be able to do that to more than 1 person at a time.
Last time I checked, we didn't balance weapons on who we wreck immediately after our first enemy encounter Noc. It's a long range alpha damage weapon with a huge RoF, has one of the best sights in the game, has almost zero recoil, has an amazing hipfire, has a charge shot that can completely strip the shields off of all but the heaviest of shield tank builds and does far more damage to armor than it should.
That cannot be balanced out with 'but this assrapeage can only be used on one or two people at a time before I have to let my squadmates take a turn shooting people while my gun has a nice long 3 second cooldown' and honestly comparing it to the TAR is just shameful. The gap between them has been reduced, but for a skilled user the Scr wins hands down over the TAR every time.
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2953
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:
The TAC and Scr have the same RoF
Sure they may, but the ScR is easier to handle, thus making it better at damage application. Also, it does not have a charge function, which is an essential part of the ScR's attack. Charge up and lead with an enormous hit, obliterate armor and whatever shields may be left with a barrage of shots. Which is balanced because it wouldn't be able to do that to more than 1 person at a time. Last time I checked, we didn't balance weapons on who we wreck immediately after our first enemy encounter Noc. It's a long range alpha damage weapon with a huge RoF, has one of the best sights in the game, has almost zero recoil (or rather it's recoil is so easily handled that it's almost completely inconsequential), has an amazing hipfire, has a charge shot that can completely strip the shields off of all but the heaviest of shield tank builds with only a couple of followup shots (obviously less needed with proficiency) and does far more damage to armor than it should. That cannot be balanced out with 'but this assrapeage can only be used on one or two people at a time before I have to let my squadmates take a turn shooting people while my gun has a nice long 3 second cooldown'. And honestly, to those who do, comparing it to the TAR is just shameful. The gap between them has been reduced, but for a skilled user the Scr wins hands down over the TAR every time.
I sometimes use a Scrambler over a tac for only one reason: the charged shot. If there were no charge shot I would always prefer any Rail Rifle or the Tac. But that's just me, I find the tac much more comfortable to use at any range.
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
479
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Do a lot of people use it? Yeah, it's OP. There is a reason for that and it ain't because folks like the way it looks on their toon.
Death is a serious business. So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17586
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
The Tac AR is a monster at close range combat as well and when using it I have no fear whatsoever about over heating...... shamefully I do have AR Op V and Prof 3 and occasionally use the Kalente's.
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5850
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
The Tac AR is a monster at close range combat as well and when using it I have no fear whatsoever about over heating...... shamefully I do have AR Op V and Prof 3 and occasionally use the Kalente's.
Eeeew True
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Anaksha Venom
Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
thehellisgoingon wrote:A charged shot that's well aimed to the dome will end your happy dance. But it's not op. I miss and overheat then committed suicide. Dose your gun kill you?
Yes point blank PLC OHK:P
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:True Adamance wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
The Tac AR is a monster at close range combat as well and when using it I have no fear whatsoever about over heating...... shamefully I do have AR Op V and Prof 3 and occasionally use the Kalente's. Eeeew True
Shut your half Minmatar half Khanid mouth!
I have some choice words for you on your latest dropsuit acquisitions. 
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens
439
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
To add another insight to the discussion, specifically about engagement ranges:
75m optimal, effective 96m for ScR
61m optimal, effective 90m for TacAr
Most can say eff range are pretty similar, but optimal range being more obscure, plays a far greater role on a weapon's efficiency. If you were to put both rifles @75m (ScR's optimal) the TacAr would perform at aproximately 69% efficiency.
The following calculated stats are given at that range (max skills):
Base vs Shields [ 98.67 ] vs [ 63.37 ] hp
DPS vs Shields [ 987 ] vs [ 633.68 ] hp/s
Base vs Armor [ 57.2 ] vs [ 45.08 ] hp
DPS vs Armor [ 572 ] vs [ 450.84 ] hp/s
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:You should always try the weapon before claiming it's OP. I suspect a lot of people in this thread have never used a SCR above MLT.
I have PRO ScR and PRO AR, and I use the ScR on Amaar Assault 5, and without it too...
It is dirty to use. Same with CR, but that's another discussion.
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Why the ScR is OP is because it kills really fast with a very very decent range. It is too good up close for being a TAC rifle, ad why the TAC AR is not as good is because it cannot kill as fast, nor does it have a charge. The TAC AR has a decent limit on RoF, while the ScR does not have much in the way of that. The heat doesn't matter, as someone else said "the heat doesn't matter if everything dies within one overheat."
Iam shocked, Lugmos, but this, my friend was a straight-out lie, and I did not expect that from you.
You should know, that the ScR as well as the Tac AR both have a Rate of Fire of exactly 600RPM.
There is no decent limit to RoF, where the ScR does not have much in the way of that.
It has, same as TacAR.
Furthermore, both can be put to exact RoF extremes via Turbo controller, in case you were hinting at that
so this too cannot and will not count as an argument.
Furthermore, charging up a shot costs time, time the ScR could have used for short quick shots instead,
doing potentially more damage to the target granting the shots land. Instead it relies on a hit with one shot,
not leaving much more room for shots and errors after, due to overheat & seize risk.
Heat does matter, heat demands heat management, skill. A mechanism not needed for the TacAR.
Many a ScR user died to mine ScR as I learned the arts and they did not.
If you do have the skill, lucky you. But others don't and have to be taken into account not to overly
penalize them in addition to their suckyness. Believing your ability with a weapon should
be the measure by which the average ScR user has to abide is nothing but cocky.
This is very disappointing, as I have not before seen you put your impartiality into so a
questionable light. I do welcome every discussion regarding ScR, but please keep it objective. |
Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cyrus Grevare wrote:To add another insight to the discussion, specifically about engagement ranges:
75m optimal, effective 96m for ScR
61m optimal, effective 90m for TacAr
Most can say eff range are pretty similar, but optimal range being more obscure, plays a far greater role on a weapon's efficiency. If you were to put both rifles @75m (ScR's optimal) the TacAr would perform at aproximately 69% efficiency.
The following calculated stats are given at that range (max skills):
Base vs Shields [ 98.67 ] vs [ 63.37 ] hp
DPS vs Shields [ 987 ] vs [ 633.68 ] hp/s
Base vs Armor [ 57.2 ] vs [ 45.08 ] hp
DPS vs Armor [ 572 ] vs [ 450.84 ] hp/s
This is a really interesting argument.
GåÆ optimal range differs for about 18%, effective range differs ~7%.
GåÆ Different damage falloff curves may be suggested.
GåÆ It may also be suggested that both weapons were intended to have different
ranges to begin with and this is no coincidence.
GåÆ additionally, the weapons general damage differs for about 3% in TacAR's favor.
These are all interesting facts, but I cannot in all honesty make out,
where this serves as an argument for anything.
Please do not get me wrong, I do believe that this is something CCP should
absolutely take a look at, but it does not open up any new avenues yet, as
you do not seem to burden yourself with adding any postulates or demands
to those numbers.
So please allow me to help you out with that:
CCP Rattati, pray give us some feedback whether these odd numbers should make any sense.
[Please bear with me, Iam not native to this language.] |
Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens
440
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Just some insight and number crunch, no personal opinion in there or intended :p
I recently finished taking in game measurements for optimal ranges for most weapons as mentioned in a thread I recently made (for the most part neglected ~shrugs) I now have a strong belief that optimal range hasn't been analyzed a much as it should when attempting the recent balancing passes, mostly because of it's obscurity (no in game data, no data in the SDE, etc)
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:I do welcome every discussion regarding ScR, but please keep it objective.
However, if I were to be objective, there would be no argument
At least not as effective.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
They need to add the rest of the variants of the tactical rifles for any more comparison IMHO.
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KingBabar
Negative-Feedback.
2805
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
If the Scr must be nerfed, its important that its done in the correct way as to not break the gun.
The only way I can see it being implemented is with a straight damage nerf, but this needs to be done paralell with a smaller heat buildup, and a bigger clip.
I took on a basic fatsuit today, I needed 3 charged shots + another one. (I probably didn't need all the damage of the last one...)
Yes its good, its immensly powerful in a straight up trench like slugfest. Then again, you'd be surprised of how many suits I hit with a charged shot + follow up volley that simply don't die before I overheat.
I get tons of kills with it, but I hardly ever get killed by it. Why is that? Well, I am slightly better than the average academy noob yes. And I use it with a specialised suit with maxed skills and 3 damage mods.
Whats the TTK of a Min suit with a six kin / boundless with 2 damage mods vs my 181 shields and 559 armor? Anyone care to do the maths? How much total damage will all those bullets yield before a reload is needed? I miss that charged shot and I am as good as dead, unless I am postioned at reasonable range with cover nearby.
And lastly, up close against a superstrafing something or indeed in conditions of lag or low frame rate, it becomes as good as useless...
A nerf to this gun is a very tricky ordeal, it can easyly become redundant for competitive play, oh wait, when was the last time I saw one in PC?
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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LUGMOS
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:unless I am postioned at reasonable range
Here, you highlight my beef with it.
It can be used very efficiently in CQC, even though it has a CQC variant. I'm not sure why people want it to be good in CQC too, but I have a theory*.It outperforms it's variant where it is not supposed to. With the AScR buff, though, The normal variant should be nerfed a bit. In which way?
Well, I suggested adding something similar to what the LR has, where it has reduced efficiency up close. Or we could give it more dispersion in hipfire.
I do not want to go to a straight up damage nerf, as it will mess it up.
*It must be the mentality that the CR gives, where that rifle is good at range and excellent in CQC. People want that carried over to the ScR methinks
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KingBabar
Negative-Feedback.
2805
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
A good idea indeed, give it less dmage up close, that seems like a fair nerf that won't break the gun.
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
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2659
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:A good idea indeed, give it less dmage up close, that seems like a fair nerf that won't break the gun.
Apparently, people disagree
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knight guard fury
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:KingBabar wrote:unless I am postioned at reasonable range Here, you highlight my beef with it. It can be used very efficiently in CQC, even though it has a CQC variant. I'm not sure why people want it to be good in CQC too, but I have a theory*.It outperforms it's variant where it is not supposed to. With the AScR buff, though, The normal variant should be nerfed a bit. In which way? Well, I suggested adding something similar to what the LR has, where it has reduced efficiency up close. Or we could give it more dispersion in hipfire. I do not want to go to a straight up damage nerf, as it will mess it up. *It must be the mentality that the CR gives, where that rifle is good at range and excellent in CQC. People want that carried over to the ScR methinks
I actually kind of agree with that in a sense.
In eve, if you too close to a person your guns won't track easily and miss though you may be like less than 400m away and etc.
But for dust this only seems reasonable for the laser based weapons and maybe the plasma based but that would have to be like hella close otherwise LOLCQC
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2381
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
"Explosive" type weapons only deal typically 100-200 DPS, against a tank type which at the lowest edges of assault fits have 400 armor(talking Type II Gallente fit, or just a Galscout with 2 Enh Plates) which is also their final buffer of health, meaning not only do you have 400+ armor to go through, but also their 30(one tick of regen) to 300 shields, which will take 1-2 Freedom MD rounds with MInmando 5 to drop
"Laser" Type weapons deal as much DPS as a HMG, while also being Light weapons, while also having a skill to nullify their only downside, while also being super easily boosted by dmg mods, while also having a convenient charge function(SCR only) that helps deal with head pokers who try to play to shield suits' strengths against SCR users, ALONG with having their main and most times only tank type being the first line of defense, and as such there is no "non-best" tank to chew through, thus meaning the DPS is always best applied, ALSO their only drawback is "Miss more than 5 shots or go up against a proto AmSent and you might die."
I'm fairly certain when the CR + Minsault combo could drop sents in one clip, it got it's @$$ nerfed, several times.
Laser weapons instantly nullify any reason to run a pure shield fit suit, aside from RP or lols. Explosives don't make armor suits instantly die, they only make armor suits "Less favored" than shield suits.
Also, Flux Nades.
Also also, less fitted HP, regardless of regen.
"But my armor suit needs 1-2 slots for reppers waaaah" Bull ****ing $hit it does, and your plates also grant double+ the HP of a extender, and that's our proto vs your proto, basic/basic it's almost triple.
"But my armor suit gets 1shot by core nades waaaaaah" Yeah, so do shield suits that aren't CalSents.
"But CR users waaaaaaah" Yeah, now try that against a weapon with 1.5X the CR's DPS, with 15% more range and in a suit with anywhere from 30-50% less main tank.
"But mass drivers shoot me from cover waaaah" Yeah, they hit us too. Oh and did i mention even a AMD hitting for 60 damage stops our regen, while you can potentially halve it's DPS with onboard reps alone?
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1545
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Let's not forget that armor plates are getting reduced too. So less tank in the future
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
Y'know most of the issues with this gun would and could be solves if Damage modules were in their proper position as a low slot module.
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LUGMOS
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Oh and did i mention even a AMD hitting for 60 damage stops our regen, while you can potentially halve it's DPS with onboard reps alone?
Hell, I had a guy pinging me with an SMG from 50 meters stopping my regen...
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Dreis Shadowweaver
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Since we've seemed to have moved on to armour vs shield tanking, I'll leave my thoughts and experiences:
Shield tanking is much more viable than armour tanking IMO. With the naturally fast regen, armour-meta, higher speed of shield-tanked fits, faster strafe speed, and only marginally less EHP than armour-tanked fits, it's obvious that armour-tanking is inferior to shield-tanking. This needs to be taken into account when considering how to balance the SCR.
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
RISE of LEGION
2142
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Y'know most of the issues with this gun would and could be solves if Damage modules were in their proper position as a low slot module.
How would that solve anything? Because armour-tanked suits would have less ehp? If anything, they'd have more shields to compensate for the loss of low slots to accommodate damage mods.
The general consensus is that the problem with the SCR isn't the ehp of the suits using them, but the damage that the SCR puts out.
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:"Explosive" type weapons only deal typically 100-200 DPS, against a tank type which at the lowest edges of assault fits have 400 armor(talking Type II Gallente fit, or just a Galscout with 2 Enh Plates) which is also their final buffer of health, meaning not only do you have 400+ armor to go through, but also their 30(one tick of regen) to 300 shields, which will take 1-2 Freedom MD rounds with MInmando 5 to drop
I want to call bullshit on this
The Freedom Mass Driver has a RPM of 60 which means roughly one round per second. Each rounds direct damage is 330 with a splash damage of 159.5. This implied a direct damage DPS of 330 as a base with a splash radius DPS of 159.5. That is unmodified without considering the damage to the tank type it's designed to deal with.
Modified at base thats
330 *1.2 = 396 direct DPS
159.5 * 1.2 = 191.4 splash DPS
Now like many other types of weapon with damage modules this is altered significantly.
With two that becomes
378.4 direct damage and DPS
181.25 splash damage and DPS
again modified for the tank type its designed to deal with that's
378.4 *1.2 = 454.08 direct damage and DPS
181.25 *1.2 = 229.68 splash damage and DPS
Your above point is only assuming splash damage and probably only on the lowest of the lowly standard mass drivers to which I find you likely comparing to prototype Scrambler Rifles.
Yet to do the calcs for the Breach and Assault MD but I'd suspect that I'll find splash DPS in excess of your provided 100-200 figure and direct damage DPS almost double your provided figures. Which is almost or more than the 400 armour HP you also cited above.
I won't pretend that the MD doesn't significantly suffer against high shield buffers like Sentinels but so to does the ScR against a 1300 armour Amarr Sentinel or an 1100 armour Gallente Sentinel, same goes for the laser rifle.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:-snip-
Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD?
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knight guard fury
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD?
A breach md user=ƒÿ£
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD?
That doesn't change the fact that it has the potential to deal a higher DPS than the proposed.
It is much like the laser, given that I required absolute accuracy to keep the beam on my target for X seconds while the DPS ramps up you will find yourself missing a large number of shots each worth a significant chunk of your DPS and sustained DPS.
More to the point the MD is what I would consider more representative of the Artillery Minmatar Weapon paradigm which focuses in high alpha...... and 330 damage per shot is reasonably high alpha for an anti infantry weapon.
Perhaps if you weapon encouraged accuracy than random bombardment you a might increase your weapons DPS values. Regardless the point stands both values were above the 100-200 figure provided assuming all shot hit which is a very significant assumption when considering all of the discussed weapons.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1546
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD?
Well really anyone who's a good enough aim. Though hard it is very satisfying to get body hits
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1546
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD? That doesn't change the fact that it has the potential to deal a higher DPS than the proposed. It is much like the laser, given that I required absolute accuracy to keep the beam on my target for X seconds while the DPS ramps up you will find yourself missing a large number of shots each worth a significant chunk of your DPS and sustained DPS. More to the point the MD is what I would consider more representative of the Artillery Minmatar Weapon paradigm which focuses in high alpha...... and 330 damage per shot is reasonably high alpha for an anti infantry weapon. Perhaps if you weapon encouraged accuracy than random bombardment you a might increase your weapons DPS values. Regardless the point stands both values were above the 100-200 figure provided assuming all shot hit which is a very significant assumption when considering all of the discussed weapons.
And IIRC the breach does around 350-400 or so damage, but since it fires slow and relies on body hits not many people deem it reliable but really it's incredibly affective
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:True Adamance wrote:LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD? That doesn't change the fact that it has the potential to deal a higher DPS than the proposed. It is much like the laser, given that I required absolute accuracy to keep the beam on my target for X seconds while the DPS ramps up you will find yourself missing a large number of shots each worth a significant chunk of your DPS and sustained DPS. More to the point the MD is what I would consider more representative of the Artillery Minmatar Weapon paradigm which focuses in high alpha...... and 330 damage per shot is reasonably high alpha for an anti infantry weapon. Perhaps if you weapon encouraged accuracy than random bombardment you a might increase your weapons DPS values. Regardless the point stands both values were above the 100-200 figure provided assuming all shot hit which is a very significant assumption when considering all of the discussed weapons. And IIRC the breach does around 350-400 or so damage, but since it fires slow and relies on body hits not many people deem it reliable but really it's incredibly affective
Indeed its direct damage under this model of 2x Damage Modules is 723.67 and it's Direct Damage DPS is 556.64
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Regardless, I don't like when people throw out an entire argument for one statement that is not entirely true.
You didn't even consider the rest of it
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Regardless, I don't like when people throw out an entire argument for one statement that is not entirely true. You didn't even consider the rest of it
Neither do I but there are a fair number of people who complain about the Scrambler Rifle in the same manner I did with that specific point, basically taking all aspects of the scenario the the extremity of perfection many who argue against the Scrambler Rifle like to do the same for no purpose other than to present an idealised argument.
I can agree this weapon is a powerful one and it is incredibly good at what it does partly why it is so good is its capacity to modify its larger than average projectile damage with numerous damage modules which without explanation appear in the high slot instead of where they belong in the low slots.
The only reason I argue in these threads is so that they don't run away with themselves and see certain over reacting groups be allowed to nerf the weapon to the point of uselessness for their own sake or compromise the character of the weapon itself when there is so little Amarr content present in the game by comparison to other races.
Moreover I won't argue with the rest of it.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1546
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Yes, but unless it's Proto than its best for 1v1's.
The damage per shot should be looked at for both shields and armor though, it does insane damage to shields, which is reasonable since its a laser which does thermal and em damage, but being able to 2-3 shot a shield tankers shields while other weapons take a decent portion of those clip is kind of ridiculous that
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m621 zma
320
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
I don't trust CCP's numbers on anything... |
P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD?
I don't go for direct hits, I go for headshots. 
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LUGMOS
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:The only reason I argue in these threads is so that they don't run away with themselves and see certain over reacting groups be allowed to nerf the weapon to the point of uselessness for their own sake or compromise the character of the weapon itself when there is so little Amarr content present in the game by comparison to other races.
Moreover I won't argue with the rest of it.
So what you're saying is that you want to defend the ScR from ignoramuses who will only overnerf it? Don't we all?
Nobody wants to see it nerfed into the ground, it is really bad when anything like that happens. The point is to balance it. It is unbalanced not necessarily because of its damage, but because of its range superiority. It can hit from afar and up close equally effective, something that was taken away from the RR when it was deemed OP.
My goal is to keep it within its respective range, ie. mid range. As the AScR is getting a consideral buff, there should be no excuse for the ScR's CQC capabilities.
Also, this is all pretty much just for the sake of argument, as we all know deep down no needs are coming of this. With that aside, if you don't fear a Nerf, maybe y'all will be more objective, no?
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Lynn Beck
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:LUGMOS wrote:True Adamance wrote:-snip- Who the hell goes for direct hits with the MD? That doesn't change the fact that it has the potential to deal a higher DPS than the proposed. It is much like the laser, given that I required absolute accuracy to keep the beam on my target for X seconds while the DPS ramps up you will find yourself missing a large number of shots each worth a significant chunk of your DPS and sustained DPS. More to the point the MD is what I would consider more representative of the Artillery Minmatar Weapon paradigm which focuses in high alpha...... and 330 damage per shot is reasonably high alpha for an anti infantry weapon. Perhaps if you weapon encouraged accuracy than random bombardment you a might increase your weapons DPS values. Regardless the point stands both values were above the 100-200 figure provided assuming all shot hit which is a very significant assumption when considering all of the discussed weapons.
I was using the AMD, the one most unlikely to avoid, as my numbers, and even then were admittedly pulled out of my arse.
More realistically, the AMD does 87 splash damage, at a RoF of 80/m, but with the -20% to shields you would need about 3-4 shots to drop, and that's only against GalAssaults with base Shield HP with maybe a basic extender.
Meanwhile it takes 1 and a half proto extenders to gain a single shot worth of HP against a basic SCR.
Also a basic plate gives more than 15% more HP than a Proto Extender, rep rates be damned.
General John Ripper
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1320
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away...
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2381
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
I just want the SCR to either not be able to instantly melt all but non-MInmatar heavies and fellow Amarr Assaults, or to just simply buff Shield suits to at least get within 20% of a comparable armor suits' HP to compensate for the highest light weapon DPS being against it.
Honestly, I want shield suits to have 40-50 base reps a second on shield suits, with slightly longer delays on certain(Cough Calscout) suits that really shouldn't have that low of a delay to begin with, considering its' role.
Also until the MInmatar gets a quad barrel ACR with charge function or a "All at once" burst fire (think Metal Rain, that in-line barrel feed that can hit 15k RPM) then the SCR is too god***n OP for the current game.
General John Ripper
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2381
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away...
I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons"
I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively)
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1320
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away... I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons" I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively)
Honestly, you read my last post, I could care less what happens anymore. The weapon really is only competitive vs caldari/scouts. If you nerf it down to reasonable levels vs said suits, it will be worthless against anything else. Its a High alpha weapon, just like the SG/PLC. If you take that away and make it a "normal" dps, it doesn't work.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7473
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:45:00 -
[79] - Quote
My only beef with the gun is its efficiency at "panic spam" in CQC.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2670
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:My only beef with the gun is its efficiency at "panic spam" in CQC.
Same
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1320
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:51:00 -
[81] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:My only beef with the gun is its efficiency at "panic spam" in CQC.
If my aim is on point at point blank range why should I not connect with a weapon that doesn't sway or kick much? It doesn't magically hit you if I miss. If anything I could agree with a damage reduction like the other laser rifle.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1547
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:51:00 -
[82] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away... I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons" I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively) Honestly, you read my last post, I could care less what happens anymore. The weapon really is only competitive vs caldari/scouts. If you nerf it down to reasonable levels vs said suits, it will be worthless against anything else. Its a High alpha weapon, just like the SG/PLC. If you take that away and make it a "normal" dps, it doesn't work.
The scr is highly competive with most suits and weapons. Especially the cr and in a 1v1 a scrambler can apply more Dmg against a min assault but the min assault has the advantage of reducing armor to nothing but is going to get killed quicker for EHP reasons and even still the ScR shreds armor as well
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
1177
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:54:00 -
[83] - Quote
I've been using the AScR since Uprising launched. So no difference there for me. Only that I will see WAY more AScR. I hate the people that flock to weapons/items when they are buffed.
The Forums are a special place.
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1320
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:P14GU3 wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away... I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons" I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively) Honestly, you read my last post, I could care less what happens anymore. The weapon really is only competitive vs caldari/scouts. If you nerf it down to reasonable levels vs said suits, it will be worthless against anything else. Its a High alpha weapon, just like the SG/PLC. If you take that away and make it a "normal" dps, it doesn't work. The scr is highly competive with most suits and weapons. Especially the cr and in a 1v1 a scrambler can apply more Dmg against a min assault but the min assault has the advantage of reducing armor to nothing but is going to get killed quicker for EHP reasons and even still the ScR shreds armor as well
I armor tank all my suits besides my mincommando. My logis run ~600 ehp, most of it armor (I run damage/precision mods.) I run CR almost exclusively nowadays. I rarely die to ScR 1v1.
As a ScR user, I run from gal assaults and heavies, I know 9/10 times, I wont beat them. I really dont understand the "it wrecks armor too" arguement..
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1547
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
Considering o don't heavily armor tank my suits with armor plates, besides a few, and I use exclusively only minmatar suits(specifically the assault mainly) it can do some incredible damage to armor per shot (In my experiences anyway)
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Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
10528
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:14:00 -
[86] - Quote
Okay, everyone hold onto your pants for a bit.
The scrambler ISN'T OP.
Now, still got your pants? Good. I'm going to explain why you THINK its OP.
Tell me, what is the greatest strength of the ScR? If your answer is range, you're wrong. If your answer is the charge shot, you're partially right. If your answer is the charge shot + X shots afterwards, then you are completely correct.
The Scrambler rifle is a BURST DPS WEAPON. It applies monstrous DPS at the drop of a hat. Charge + Spam can put the HURT on any drop suit not heavily armor tanked.
So, little johnny turns the corner into Mr. ScR. Fire if you may, but you are horrendously out DPS'd. Now, you die, because he just put 1000 alpha damage down your throat.
OP right? WRONG. Tell me, what would happen if you turned the corner with a friend? He might alpha you down, but he can't fire afterwards, otherwise, he will overheat. The ScR is TERRIBLE at engaging multiple targets, due to threat of overheat.
Now, you have a high burst DPS weapon, with an overheat mechanic that prevents you from engaging more than 2 targets at once without smart weapon management. What is the best platform for this? You don't want a flimsy suit, you want ARMOR and lots of it. You want to be able to tank a surprise attack, so that you can turn around and Alpha him down.
Now, the Amarr assault is a high armor tank suit with lots of low slots. It also has a bonus that drastically reduces cool-down, making it far more viable for back to back engagements.
THIS is what makes you think the suit is OP. The Amarr assault with an ScR is the BEST 1v1 suit in the game (Barring the Heavy). It has tons of alpha, lots of health, and a fantastic bonus that mitigates one of the strongest downsides to the weapon.
Now then, whats the catch to running the suit? Lets look at the weaknesses.
You are primarily an armor tank. Explosives and Projectiles can easily match you for DPS if you get dropped on. Believe it or not, but a good quick flank with an Assault Combat rifle can easily drop an Amarr Assault.
It's also hard to squeeze max DPS out of the ScR at range, believe it or not. The Vanilla combat rifle is amazing at 60m against an ScR.
Armor tanks pay for health with low regen. He is slow in movement, and slow to recover from damage.
How can I use this to my advantage? Believe it or not, but the Min Assault is actually one of my favorite suits for taking on Amarr Assaults. Flank the guy and try to remove as much armor as possible before he turns around. Run. If he tries to turn the corner, you have a flaylock or explosives to QUICKLY finish the job.
At range, you move in and out of cover to whittle him down, using superior shield regen to survive the burst DPS. Minmatar are best at this because of the mix of high and low slots. Its very easy to run 450+ shields and 320+ armor on a Min Assault while still having great regen on the shield side. This lets you easily tank 5 shots from the ScR, which is more than enough time to get a few bursts down range, and then preposition and flank.
In conclusion: You guys are whining that the ScR is OP because you keep trying to straight up 1v1 the best 1v1 weapon in the game. Flank and use your brain FFS.
It's not OP, its just specialized at systematically taking down one target after the other, in short quick engagements.
Watch out for charge shots.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1548
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one besides one or two people said its OP.
We are simply debating that it's a very potent weapon that performs very well in combat.
And yes the minmatar are very a very good counter. That's just logically true and both sides have fast and high damage weapons to deal with each other.
Also it only takes a few seconds for it to cool down so theoretically it can take on multiple people given range and cover.
And hell I can whittle anyone down with my skills with the Combat Rifle, it's a great weapon and Cavan even kill heavies in one clip.
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1548
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:28:00 -
[88] - Quote
Also very true about the min assault and the cr being good for flanking and getting out quick hits and running away but who really does that besides veteran and scouts. Most people will just get to you, strafe, and hope to kill you quick enough or just run away when low on health
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
2676
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:32:00 -
[89] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:Also it only takes a few seconds for it to cool down so theoretically it can take on multiple people given range and cover.
And hell I can whittle anyone down with my skills with the Combat Rifle, it's a great weapon and Cavan even kill heavies in one clip.
That's what I was thinking.
Make the seize duration longer if it is only supposed to take on one at a time.
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KingBabar
Negative-Feedback.
2807
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away... I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons" I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively)
SO we are to balance all weapons' DPS using the MD on a Minmando lvl 5 with proff 4 vs armor as base? Thats a, weird meassure for balancing weapons.
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17599
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:39:00 -
[91] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:knight guard fury wrote:Also it only takes a few seconds for it to cool down so theoretically it can take on multiple people given range and cover.
And hell I can whittle anyone down with my skills with the Combat Rifle, it's a great weapon and Cavan even kill heavies in one clip. That's what I was thinking. Make the seize duration longer if it is only supposed to take on one at a time.
Think of it this way. The Overheat and Cool Down mechanics are essentially forced or partially enforced reloads designed to punish poor trigger discipline.
That my rifle must after X shots cool down before firing safely once more is what I referred to as the "partial reload" it's optional and usually as long as a standard reload...coupled with then actually having to reload again after wards.
The Over Heat mechanics is an enforced and punishing reload of up to six seconds fully enforced and punishing because it still requires another reload period, prevents sprint of weapons switching, etc.
Sieze Duration is more than long enough for a weapon like the ScR especially in a 1v1 situation......ifs effectively the worst punishment you could incur.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1548
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
((Unrelated to the topic at hand; would you be interested in some RP in the IGS part of the forum true?))
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2383
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Posted - 2015.03.12 22:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I used to participate in these threads because the ScR was the only weapon I had maxxed besides MD and SMG. Would have really sucked to have my only rifle nerfed. Now I have the TAR, CR, and laser proto. I hardly run my ScR anymore. The laser is way more fun for long range, and the TAR/CR beat the ScR in short-mid range.
TL:DR - The ScR is only useful to me anymore when CK.0 scouts are up my @ss. Nerf away... I don't advocate castrating the weapon, for as the Amarr say "We only have 3 weapons" I just want its' DPS brought in line such that shield suits at least have as much of a chance against it as Armor suits get against a Freedom MD with prof 4 and Mincommando 5 with 2 Complex damage mods.(Which is still pretty f**king good comparatively) SO we are to balance all weapons' DPS using the MD on a Minmando lvl 5 with proff 4 vs armor as base? Thats a, weird meassure for balancing weapons.
I'm saying I want the SCR without prof or any supporting skills to give shield users about as much chance to survive as a Prof 5, Minmando 5, double damage modded Freedom against Armor suits, as compared to now where it's practically 0% chance, it's "Oh well i'm running 560 shield and 240 armor, so i'm dead."
"Oh, I'm running a 600/800 Adv MinHeavy with a Burst HMG against a Adv AmAssault, so i should just give up the fight now."
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
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Cassa-Nova
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
114
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Posted - 2015.03.12 23:06:00 -
[94] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:knight guard fury wrote:Until I see mathematical numbers and accurate proof/evidence stop complaining about the ScR being OP.
Is it super efficient? Yes
Does hear build up really effect how quickly you kill? Yes unless your a good shot.
The combat rifle is just... Well, it's very effective against armor but if your strafing and not a min assault your wasting a bunch of shots if you tend to miss a lot. Otherwise it's an awesome weapon.
The ScR should have its damage looked at towards armor IMO but that's up to CCP and how many people ***** about it. the efficiency is not the issue, it is the turbo abuse and charge glitch. on its own it is a decent weapon with a place that it belongs. with the turbo controller it becomes OP. there is no way to really catch the turbo controller as occasionally your game will glitch for other people making it look/sound like you are charging the weapon.
You can NOT punish legitimate players for the few ******* who ruin the game. Get your head straight
Amarr Faction Suit Colour Schemes
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