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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1900
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Posted - 2015.02.06 00:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK. So now I have to put it out there. Sorry Amarr bros.
When the rail rifle had epic range while still being good up close, it was deemed OP and damage application up close was nerfed.
Right now, with the regular Scrambler rifle you have the same deal. It is literally a long range rifle with a shotgun attachment that can be used by holding R1. It is way too versatile for a weapon that can shoot that far and do that much damage with that high of a RoF.
Now, the Laser Rifle is pretty balanced because of one mechanic that makes it unusable up close: a damage penalty up close.
Why doesn't the normal Scrambler variant have this? I mean, its not like there isn't an Assault variant that is supposed to fill its CQC role. So why not introduce a damage scalar?
TL;DR: introduce damage penalty up close for ScR
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
438
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Posted - 2015.02.06 00:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Everything kills everything in 5 seconds or less if your aim is good.
G.L.O.R.Y Soldier,
I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3
-Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
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Apocalyptic Destroyer
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
282
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Posted - 2015.02.06 00:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with it. They just need to Nerf the RoF
True Amarr In Disguise Pain is weakness leaving the body Proto : ADS Pilot, Tanker Ak.0 : Mando, Scout, Assault
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1900
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Everything kills everything in 5 seconds or less if your aim is good.
Yeah, but that's not the point.
The point is range effectivity, it is good nearly anywhere, even up close.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
28
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:OK. So now I have to put it out there. Sorry Amarr bros.
When the rail rifle had epic range while still being good up close, it was deemed OP and damage application up close was nerfed.
Right now, with the regular Scrambler rifle you have the same deal. It is literally a long range rifle with a shotgun attachment that can be used by holding R1. It is way too versatile for a weapon that can shoot that far and do that much damage with that high of a RoF.
Now, the Laser Rifle is pretty balanced because of one mechanic that makes it unusable up close: a damage penalty up close.
Why doesn't the normal Scrambler variant have this? I mean, its not like there isn't an Assault variant that is supposed to fill its CQC role. So why not introduce a damage scalar?
TL;DR: introduce damage penalty up close for ScR
from someone that has used both for an extensive amount of time I approve of this message
the rr needs less kick and the scr needs cqc nerf |
Protocake JR
Negative-Feedback.
1683
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oh wow, this thread again.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1900
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Oh wow, this thread again.
Lol, cept this time it has actual rational.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15480
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 01:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati says that its imbalanced but won't make changes until more players use it.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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ADS IS OP
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Oh wow, this thread again.
next thread is about keeping dumb euro player in their own damn server so they not dodge bullets |
Vitharr Foebane
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
2239
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. RR doesn't explode in your face
2. AScR is one of if not the worst gun in the game
3. charge shot does less then half the damage of a SG while costing over 2/3 of over heat gauge
4. while ScR is one the best 1v1 guns in the game over heat limits it's group fighting capabilities
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Vitharr Foebane
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
2239
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CCP Rattati says that its imbalanced but won't make changes until more players use it.
he said most efficient if I'm not mistaken
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1900
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:1. RR doesn't explode in your face
2. AScR is one of if not the worst gun in the game
3. charge shot does less then half the damage of a SG while costing over 2/3 of over heat gauge
4. while ScR is one the best 1v1 guns in the game over heat limits it's group fighting capabilities
Hmmm... Interesting points, albeight a bit off.
Charge doesn't cost over 2/3, but I'll take it that it does cost quite a bit.
AScR actually is not that bad anymore, but it is missing something. Once it is buffed a bit, maybe this proposal will be more acceptable.
While the charge is less than a shotgun blast, what about the follow up shots?
Yes, the RR doesn't blow up in your face, but the damage application is very unreliable for the range it is supposed to exceed in. Unrelated points? Maybe. But it is all about balance. The RR can't really fight off groups either, it's like an SR, it is only annoying and good for pinging those out in the open. (All points assuming normal variant)
All in all, I don't want an all out Nerf on the ScR, just want it (normal variant) to be more restricted on where it is supposed to be best at.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15480
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote:CCP Rattati says that its imbalanced but won't make changes until more players use it. he said most efficient if I'm not mistaken
Most efficient typically means imbalanced, and he said that if more people use the SCR it will get "looked at".
Given how we're not toddlers we can both come to the logical conclusion that when he says looked at, he means more than simply glancing at it with a menacing stare.
For those who haven't seen:
CCP Rattati wrote:Scrambler Rifle is the most efficient rifle of them all. That's a fact.
However, due to heat mechanism and most likely the need to skill Amarr Dropsuits to maximize its potential, it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles.
If I see a migration of the playerbase over to SCR, so that Kills and efficiency become the highest, it will get looked at
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
1926
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote:CCP Rattati says that its imbalanced but won't make changes until more players use it. he said most efficient if I'm not mistaken Most efficient typically means imbalanced, and he said that if more people use the SCR it will get "looked at". Given how we're not toddlers we can both come to the logical conclusion that when he says looked at, he means more than simply glancing at it with a menacing stare. For those who haven't seen:CCP Rattati wrote:Scrambler Rifle is the most efficient rifle of them all. That's a fact.
However, due to heat mechanism and most likely the need to skill Amarr Dropsuits to maximize its potential, it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles.
If I see a migration of the playerbase over to SCR, so that Kills and efficiency become the highest, it will get looked at
Lots of luck. I love facing off against fellow ScR users. 1 in 10 are good. The rest die while overheated
Who wants some?
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15480
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:1. RR doesn't explode in your face
2. AScR is one of if not the worst gun in the game
3. charge shot does less then half the damage of a SG while costing over 2/3 of over heat gauge
4. while ScR is one the best 1v1 guns in the game over heat limits it's group fighting capabilities
1. SCR doesn't either unless you're terrible with it or facing a Senitnel, in which case: "GG see you next spawn"
2. Not even remotely.
3. The simple solution is to not use the charge shot
4. Only gun in DUST that lets you win a 2v1 against something other than scrubs is the HMG
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
493
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
You can't balance weapons by arbitrary damage drop-offs when maps force you into close to medium range engagements
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
323
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
SCR penalty is -80% damage to armor making it rather difficult to finish off armor tanked enemies before it overheats
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1900
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dengru wrote:You can't balance weapons by arbitrary damage drop-offs when maps force you into close to medium range engagements
So then get rid of the Laser Rifle's.
It is practically useless because of it's falloff in close range maps. And it's arbitrary.
LogicGäó
Not only that, you missed my point. The reason nobody uses the AScR is not because it is terrible, it is just because the regular ScR is just better, so there is no point. That, and it costs more.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
87
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
A thought.
RR kick == ScR heat
RR kick is like a mule == ScR over heat
RR stop and refire charge == ScR cool down
Scr o.h damage != RR kick (w/o refire)
ScR small kick != RR larger clip
Remember, the RR's mule kick + extended charge time pushes it out of CQC. what pushes the ScR out if CQC?
Like i said, just a thought.
Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
323
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Dengru wrote:You can't balance weapons by arbitrary damage drop-offs when maps force you into close to medium range engagements So then get rid of the Laser Rifle's. It is practically useless because of it's falloff in close range maps. And it's arbitrary. LogicGäó Not only that, you missed my point. The reason nobody uses the AScR is not because it is terrible, it is just because the regular ScR is just better, so there is no point. That, and it costs more.
Dont they have a standard AScR that costs the same as the ScR now?
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1901
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:SCR penalty is -80% damage to armor making it rather difficult to finish off armor tanked enemies before it overheats
Yes, and is that not how it should be? If the ScR was forced to actually play smart, you wouldn't have to worry about overheating. Overheating is only a problem when you can be killed by the armor tanker, which means you have to be up close, in which case you shouldn't win with the regular ScR, because the AR should beat you there.
I don't get why people want the ScR to finish everything in one OH...
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1901
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:
Dont they have a standard AScR that costs the same as the ScR now?
That's not the important point, but whatever. No I don't think so.
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Zindorak
Nyain Chan
1692
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
RR maybe nerfed now but ARR is still a monster and better than ScR.
Why do you think most gk.0's,ak.0's and even some mk.0 assaults use it.
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1903
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:RR maybe nerfed now but ARR is still a monster and better than ScR.
Why do you think most gk.0's,ak.0's and even some mk.0 assaults use it.
Dunno.
Maybe the same reason I see a lot of gk.0's, mk.0's, and ck.0's using g the ScR.
Here's to anecdotal evidence, no?
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
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Vitharr Foebane
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
2239
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:1. RR doesn't explode in your face
2. AScR is one of if not the worst gun in the game
3. charge shot does less then half the damage of a SG while costing over 2/3 of over heat gauge
4. while ScR is one the best 1v1 guns in the game over heat limits it's group fighting capabilities 1. SCR doesn't either unless you're terrible with it or facing a Senitnel, in which case: "GG see you next spawn" 2. Not even remotely. 3. The simple solution is to not use the charge shot 4. Only gun in DUST that lets you win a 2v1 against something other than scrubs is the HMG
1. it's not that binary and you know it =.=
2. show me a worse primary...
3. why should a weapon's primary mechanic be ignored
4. CR, ACR, RR, ARR, AR, TAR, and BAR are all great at multi-enemy engagements
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6412
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:
TL;DR: introduce damage penalty up close for ScR
Agreed with sentiment and solution.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
1904
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gosh darnit you Amarr scrubs...
What I propose is not a direct nerf... If you're using it at it's intended range.
To go along with this change, the AScR should be buffed to make up for the normal variant's newly imposed shortcoming. That is the point of variants, no?
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Anti-FoTM Prof. V
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
88
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:
2. show me a worse primary...
Plasma Cann in untrained/unskilled hands. We all know it's true.  
Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
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Vitharr Foebane
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
2239
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:SCR penalty is -80% damage to armor making it rather difficult to finish off armor tanked enemies before it overheats Yes, and is that not how it should be? If the ScR was forced to actually play smart, you wouldn't have to worry about overheating. Overheating is only a problem when you can be killed by the armor tanker, which means you have to be up close, in which case you shouldn't win with the regular ScR, because the AR should beat you there. I don't get why people want the ScR to finish everything in one OH...
we don't we do want our MAIN FRONTLINE rifle to work. unlike you other races we don't have weapon diversity and what little we do have d*mn well better be functional
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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WeapondigitX V7
The Exemplars
RISE of LEGION
213
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
The scrambler has much less optimal and effective range than the rail rifle thus it needs to have much better ability up close.
Its higher fitting cost and lower damage per overheat compared to the assault rifle also creates the need for the scrambler to be kind of good at 25m to 60m engagements.
At engagements of 15m to 25m the scrambler still needs to aim down sights and move much slower to attempt to hit targets most of the time. Other guns like the breach assault rifle and combat rifle can hipfire instead with very good accuracy at 15 to 25m engagements while moving much faster allowing them to comtrol range and dodge a few bullets.
The charge shot of the scrambler (when it is used) reduces the overall damage per overheat compared to firing 22 shots with an amarr assault. The charge shot does roughly 200 damage unmodified by damage profile. The std shotgun does roughly 480 damage unmodified by its damage profile.
The Aim Down Sights recoil of the scrambler rifle prevents it from quickly firing many bullets accurately against enemies that are slightly peeking out of cover and firing at you (at 40m to 70m engagements). This lowers the damage per overheat and dps of the scrambler rifle a lot. I am referring to cover that hides the lower halve of the enemy and may also only expose only one shoulder of the enemy if the cover is shaped like a triangle of boxes.
The breach assault rifle, the burst assault rifle and regular assault rifle does not have large recoil problems.
The cool down time of the scrambler rifle acts like a reload. But it takes 6 seconds to cool down, instead of 3 seconds of reloading like the assault rifles and combat rifles.
Firing at 1 brick tanked enemy like a std amarr assault or gallente assault leaves you very vulnerable with a scrambler rifle. Because it takes 6 seconds to cooldown, an observing enemy might ambush you while you are vulnerable, forcing you to switch to a sidearm for 3 seconds at minimum. That is plenty of time for a skilled person to kill an amarr assault suit with a HMG or ACR etc.
Additionally the higher fitting costs of the scrambler rifle hinders a suits ability to fit good sidearms on top of good modules.
This makes me very confident against scrambler rifle users when I ambush them with a assault suit while using 1 proto profile dampener. (they would need 2 proto precision enhancers to see me coming, which would severely hurt there dps and damage per overheat.)
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