DUST Search - Scrambler Rife

LUGMOS wrote:

WeapondigitX V7 wrote:

The scrambler has much less optimal and effective range than the rail rifle thus it needs to have much better ability up close.

Its higher fitting cost and lower damage per overheat compared to the assault rifle also creates the need for the scrambler to be kind of good at 25m to 60m engagements.

At engagements of 15m to 25m the scrambler still needs to aim down sights and move much slower to attempt to hit targets most of the time. Other guns like the breach assault rifle and combat rifle can hipfire instead with very good accuracy at 15 to 25m engagements while moving much faster allowing them to comtrol range and dodge a few bullets.

The charge shot of the scrambler (when it is used) reduces the overall damage per overheat compared to firing 22 shots with an amarr assault. The charge shot does roughly 200 damage unmodified by damage profile. The std shotgun does roughly 480 damage unmodified by its damage profile.

The Aim Down Sights recoil of the scrambler rifle prevents it from quickly firing many bullets accurately against enemies that are slightly peeking out of cover and firing at you (at 40m to 70m engagements). This lowers the damage per overheat and dps of the scrambler rifle a lot. I am referring to cover that hides the lower halve of the enemy and may also only expose only one shoulder of the enemy if the cover is shaped like a triangle of boxes.

The breach assault rifle, the burst assault rifle and regular assault rifle does not have large recoil problems.

The cool down time of the scrambler rifle acts like a reload. But it takes 6 seconds to cool down, instead of 3 seconds of reloading like the assault rifles and combat rifles.

Firing at 1 brick tanked enemy like a std amarr assault or gallente assault leaves you very vulnerable with a scrambler rifle. Because it takes 6 seconds to cooldown, an observing enemy might ambush you while you are vulnerable, forcing you to switch to a sidearm for 3 seconds at minimum. That is plenty of time for a skilled person to kill an amarr assault suit with a HMG or ACR etc.

Additionally the higher fitting costs of the scrambler rifle hinders a suits ability to fit good sidearms on top of good modules.

This makes me very confident against scrambler rifle users when I ambush them with a assault suit while using 1 proto profile dampener. (they would need 2 proto precision enhancers to see me coming, which would severely hurt there dps and damage per overheat.)

Good points, now my turn to rebute.

Having less long range ability than the Rail Rifle does not make it entitled to better CQC abilities. I'll just ignore this point for the most part since there is not much backing it.

Also, you say that it needs to be good from 25m-60m. That's fine, except as of now, it is stepping on the AR's shoes in the AR's own range, as it is arguably more effective than the AR due to more reliable damage application, even at hipfire. The AR needs to ADS from 20m out, whereas the ScR's tight hipfire allows it to shoot farther without having to ADS. I don't know what you are talking about with the 15-25 the ScR has to hipfire, and that the AR is at a disadvantage. This is bad, because the ScR should be at a clear disadvantage at that range.

OK, the point with the under barrel shotgun was a hyperbole, so take it with a grain of salt.

Also, with the unreliable damage application after some shots, it won't matter if you're using it in that range. The RR is sooo much worse at that range because of it's ridiculous sight that shakes uncontrollably while firing. The ScRis much better at that range than the RR, granted it is within 70 meters.

Anything else at that range just doesn't compete, including the breach AR, burst AR and TAC AR.

Also, it does not take 6 seconds for the ScR's seizure to end. It is 1 second longer than a reload at most. Also, you shouldnt have to be taking on multiple enemies in one OH. You are asking to die and should. Also, the overheat can be managed by just switching to a sidearm. So there's that.

And the higher fitting costs is not that bad, granted I am using an Amarr Assault, but I can still fit Pro mods and weapons. Also, even if the sidearm is not PRO, is it really that much of a hindrance?

And for the last bit, good for you. If you ambushed them, they should die, regardless of what weapon you are using.


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WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 213	Posted - 2015.02.06 02:07:00 - [1] - Quote The scrambler has much less optimal and effective range than the rail rifle thus it needs to have much better ability up close. Its higher fitting cost and lower damage per overheat compared to the assault rifle also creates the need for the scrambler to be kind of good at 25m to 60m engagements. At engagements of 15m to 25m the scrambler still needs to aim down sights and move much slower to attempt to hit targets most of the time. Other guns like the breach assault rifle and combat rifle can hipfire instead with very good accuracy at 15 to 25m engagements while moving much faster allowing them to comtrol range and dodge a few bullets. The charge shot of the scrambler (when it is used) reduces the overall damage per overheat compared to firing 22 shots with an amarr assault. The charge shot does roughly 200 damage unmodified by damage profile. The std shotgun does roughly 480 damage unmodified by its damage profile. The Aim Down Sights recoil of the scrambler rifle prevents it from quickly firing many bullets accurately against enemies that are slightly peeking out of cover and firing at you (at 40m to 70m engagements). This lowers the damage per overheat and dps of the scrambler rifle a lot. I am referring to cover that hides the lower halve of the enemy and may also only expose only one shoulder of the enemy if the cover is shaped like a triangle of boxes. The breach assault rifle, the burst assault rifle and regular assault rifle does not have large recoil problems. The cool down time of the scrambler rifle acts like a reload. But it takes 6 seconds to cool down, instead of 3 seconds of reloading like the assault rifles and combat rifles. Firing at 1 brick tanked enemy like a std amarr assault or gallente assault leaves you very vulnerable with a scrambler rifle. Because it takes 6 seconds to cooldown, an observing enemy might ambush you while you are vulnerable, forcing you to switch to a sidearm for 3 seconds at minimum. That is plenty of time for a skilled person to kill an amarr assault suit with a HMG or ACR etc. Additionally the higher fitting costs of the scrambler rifle hinders a suits ability to fit good sidearms on top of good modules. This makes me very confident against scrambler rifle users when I ambush them with a assault suit while using 1 proto profile dampener. (they would need 2 proto precision enhancers to see me coming, which would severely hurt there dps and damage per overheat.)
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 213	Posted - 2015.02.06 02:13:00 - [2] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote: SCR penalty is -80% damage to armor making it rather difficult to finish off armor tanked enemies before it overheats Yes, and is that not how it should be? If the ScR was forced to actually play smart, you wouldn't have to worry about overheating. Overheating is only a problem when you can be killed by the armor tanker, which means you have to be up close, in which case you shouldn't win with the regular ScR, because the AR should beat you there. I don't get why people want the ScR to finish everything in one OH... Please explain that a little better, I cant seem to make proper sense of what you are telling me? How does the scrabler rifle kill everything in one burst of bullets when heavy suits can easily get more hp than the damage per overheat of the scrambler rifle. std amarr heavy suits can use 3 proto dampeners so that the amarr assault users are required to use 2 proto precision enhancers in order to see the heavy suit coming. That reduces the potential dps and damage per overheat of the scrambler rifle because they are not using damage modules then.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 218	Posted - 2015.02.07 13:01:00 - [3] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: The scrambler has much less optimal and effective range than the rail rifle thus it needs to have much better ability up close. Its higher fitting cost and lower damage per overheat compared to the assault rifle also creates the need for the scrambler to be kind of good at 25m to 60m engagements. At engagements of 15m to 25m the scrambler still needs to aim down sights and move much slower to attempt to hit targets most of the time. Other guns like the breach assault rifle and combat rifle can hipfire instead with very good accuracy at 15 to 25m engagements while moving much faster allowing them to comtrol range and dodge a few bullets. The charge shot of the scrambler (when it is used) reduces the overall damage per overheat compared to firing 22 shots with an amarr assault. The charge shot does roughly 200 damage unmodified by damage profile. The std shotgun does roughly 480 damage unmodified by its damage profile. The Aim Down Sights recoil of the scrambler rifle prevents it from quickly firing many bullets accurately against enemies that are slightly peeking out of cover and firing at you (at 40m to 70m engagements). This lowers the damage per overheat and dps of the scrambler rifle a lot. I am referring to cover that hides the lower halve of the enemy and may also only expose only one shoulder of the enemy if the cover is shaped like a triangle of boxes. The breach assault rifle, the burst assault rifle and regular assault rifle does not have large recoil problems. The cool down time of the scrambler rifle acts like a reload. But it takes 6 seconds to cool down, instead of 3 seconds of reloading like the assault rifles and combat rifles. Firing at 1 brick tanked enemy like a std amarr assault or gallente assault leaves you very vulnerable with a scrambler rifle. Because it takes 6 seconds to cooldown, an observing enemy might ambush you while you are vulnerable, forcing you to switch to a sidearm for 3 seconds at minimum. That is plenty of time for a skilled person to kill an amarr assault suit with a HMG or ACR etc. Additionally the higher fitting costs of the scrambler rifle hinders a suits ability to fit good sidearms on top of good modules. This makes me very confident against scrambler rifle users when I ambush them with a assault suit while using 1 proto profile dampener. (they would need 2 proto precision enhancers to see me coming, which would severely hurt there dps and damage per overheat.) Good points, now my turn to rebute. Having less long range ability than the Rail Rifle does not make it entitled to better CQC abilities. I'll just ignore this point for the most part since there is not much backing it. Also, you say that it needs to be good from 25m-60m. That's fine, except as of now, it is stepping on the AR's shoes in the AR's own range, as it is arguably more effective than the AR due to more reliable damage application, even at hipfire. The AR needs to ADS from 20m out, whereas the ScR's tight hipfire allows it to shoot farther without having to ADS. I don't know what you are talking about with the 15-25 the ScR has to hipfire, and that the AR is at a disadvantage. This is bad, because the ScR should be at a clear disadvantage at that range. OK, the point with the under barrel shotgun was a hyperbole, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, with the unreliable damage application after some shots, it won't matter if you're using it in that range. The RR is sooo much worse at that range because of it's ridiculous sight that shakes uncontrollably while firing. The ScRis much better at that range than the RR, granted it is within 70 meters. Anything else at that range just doesn't compete, including the breach AR, burst AR and TAC AR. Also, it does not take 6 seconds for the ScR's seizure to end. It is 1 second longer than a reload at most. Also, you shouldnt have to be taking on multiple enemies in one OH. You are asking to die and should. Also, the overheat can be managed by just switching to a sidearm. So there's that. And the higher fitting costs is not that bad, granted I am using an Amarr Assault, but I can still fit Pro mods and weapons. Also, even if the sidearm is not PRO, is it really that much of a hindrance? And for the last bit, good for you. If you ambushed them, they should die, regardless of what weapon you are using. You miss understand, I meant that it takes the SCR 6 seconds to get rid of its heat after 17 to 21 shots (without it overheating) I wish I could find my other posts about the SCR in other threads. They had other points. I was also talking about situations where you kill 1 guy in single combat with a SCR and the next guy that comes around the corner instantly 'like an ambush' has a greater chance of killing you because you might be close to overheat and thus you use a sidearm with less DPS and likely less damage per clip. ARs have less chance of having an issue here because of there very large clip size (it depends on how many bullets you have remaining). Light weapons usually have much higher DPS compared to side arms (without headshots). I also was trying to convey that if the SCR did not have the longest range like the RR then it needs something else in order for it to be deemed a worth while weapon. I was trying to say the SCR has much less hipfire accuracy compared to the breach assault rifle. nerfing the hipfire accuracy or buffing it only makes it more user friendly at different ranges. If the SCR's hipfire accuracy was nerfed much more, it would be more user friendly at 5m engagements than the AR and Breach AR. You should try the ACR on full auto at 5m engagements, the inaccuracy is at a very good sweet spot there. The SCR's hipfire and ROF is currently user friendly against straffing targets at 20m but you may miss roughly 7 bullets. The Breach AR would be user friendly at 25 to 30m engagements.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 218	Posted - 2015.02.07 13:12:00 - [4] - Quote When I say 'user friendly' I mean that the average player would have a better chance at hitting the enemy a few times BUT something more accurate would be better for veterans because they can aim better with there controller. I hope that clears a few things up. The high dps however does allow the SCR to spam shots with 60% accuracy using hipfire at 25m engagements an still have possibly higher or equivalent DPS to a breach AR which can be problematic I suppose. Despite lowering its resulting damage per overheat. You could increase the hipfire recoil of the SCR, to reduce the accuracy of the SCR, but i hope that does not increase the kick/camera shake as well. Because that messes with player input far too greatly. Remember asking for a nerf to the SCR is similar to asking for a nerf to the tactical assault rifle since they are very similar functioning weapons except the TAC AR has less PG/CPU cost and more damage per clip without overheating. The Aim Down Sights recoil may not be very high for the SCR but it is higher than the Breach AR and AR. If you get hit many time while ADS firing the SCR recoil does increase much more, you may want to test this and get a comparison against the Breach AR and AR and combat rifle.