DUST Search - HMG Balance Proposal

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

DRT 99 wrote:

What im proposing is a reduction to speed while firing an HMG - similar to charging up a forge gun (as well as potentially for a short while after firing - like 0.5s) They can still sprint and move normally while not firing.

So your just making it easier for them to be open to SG abuse because that charge time wouldn't allow them to counter fire quick enough and this might lead to a HMG user overheating faster from leaning on the trigger because of knowing about the delay , this also makes them open to RE " scrubs " as you put it because most heavies face more then one opponent during conflicts .

This might work for those who travel in packs or squads but this idea will kill solo players who play that role .

Every answer to issues shouldn't be , " squad up " or " get gud ."

There are so many other things that I can think of but I'm not trying to take over your post .

I believe with the heating mechanic that's in place one has to constantly be reminded of overheating and that's fine because that causes one to depend more on their sidearm but delays added is kinda overkill .

Most of the complaints from this game are squad based not solo .

A lot of players play solo in-game .

For the most part and most of you know this , if you see packs of heavies ... their in a squad , see heavies and logi combos , their in a squad .

When I played solo logi ( I played all logi's maxed threw respec ) players would always run from me and it made no sense because I supplied the reps and ammo with needles , I also kept a scanner on me but because I was solo I died a lot even trying to keep up with the pack because I was a solo player they devalued me .

Like BW lets not implement another feature that will devalue the solo player and experience .

Edit : If you think about it for the most part , the response time for a counter from a heavy is extremely long in relation to say the decloak and fire animation , heavies are slow in everything they do .

Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

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DRT 99 Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:32:00 - [1] - Quote So i recently returned to the game and i have noticed that heavies are monsters - now dont get me wrong i completely agree going 1 vs 1 with an HMG heavy at close range should be suicide but this is alittle over the top. Its getting to the point where the only way to play when heavies are around is to be behind them (with either rep tool or shotgun),become one of the RE frizbee scrubs, or get a heavy yourself. So i thought up (what i feel is) a decent way to nerf heavies while retaining that 'OH SH!T A HEAVY!' feeling. With that in mind: What this ISNT: -Nerf Heavies QQ -Nerf HMG DPS -Nerf Heavy HP What im proposing is a reduction to speed while firing an HMG - similar to charging up a forge gun (as well as potentially for a short while after firing - like 0.5s) They can still sprint and move normally while not firing. What this does is make heavies more area denial and less murder-machines, through a reduction in their ability to chase opponents down. This also makes them more vulnerable to certain weapons (MDs, REs, FGs, Snipers, etc) which i believe is a positive thing. Thoughts?
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 468	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:05:00 - [2] - Quote Usually I hate threads where they ask for some changes or nerfs to heavies. Usually because they are a bunch of whiney noobs that need to 'git gud', learn their ranges and to use cover. Tactics OP. This change, I can handle. Unfortunately a pick up tactic I have with my logi bro will need to be revised (I rush out of cover firing supressive fire, he sticks to my ass till we are at the down guy, suppressive fire on the return). Drink until you can't drink no more. Then grab another bottle and drink some more! - Demetrious 'Jonny' Buelle.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6474	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:49:00 - [3] - Quote Constructive post. +1 Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1715	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:20:00 - [4] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: What im proposing is a reduction to speed while firing an HMG - similar to charging up a forge gun (as well as potentially for a short while after firing - like 0.5s) They can still sprint and move normally while not firing. So your just making it easier for them to be open to SG abuse because that charge time wouldn't allow them to counter fire quick enough and this might lead to a HMG user overheating faster from leaning on the trigger because of knowing about the delay , this also makes them open to RE " scrubs " as you put it because most heavies face more then one opponent during conflicts . This might work for those who travel in packs or squads but this idea will kill solo players who play that role . Every answer to issues shouldn't be , " squad up " or " get gud ." There are so many other things that I can think of but I'm not trying to take over your post . I believe with the heating mechanic that's in place one has to constantly be reminded of overheating and that's fine because that causes one to depend more on their sidearm but delays added is kinda overkill . Most of the complaints from this game are squad based not solo . A lot of players play solo in-game . For the most part and most of you know this , if you see packs of heavies ... their in a squad , see heavies and logi combos , their in a squad . When I played solo logi ( I played all logi's maxed threw respec ) players would always run from me and it made no sense because I supplied the reps and ammo with needles , I also kept a scanner on me but because I was solo I died a lot even trying to keep up with the pack because I was a solo player they devalued me . Like BW lets not implement another feature that will devalue the solo player and experience . Edit : If you think about it for the most part , the response time for a counter from a heavy is extremely long in relation to say the decloak and fire animation , heavies are slow in everything they do . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 568	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote I got a better idea, increase the cost of heavy suits. Not by much, maybe 20%. I may not have a mic, but trust me, you NEED me in your squad if you want to win. When I'm on a roll, I'm unstoppable.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:07:00 - [6] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: DRT 99 wrote: What im proposing is a reduction to speed while firing an HMG - similar to charging up a forge gun (as well as potentially for a short while after firing - like 0.5s) They can still sprint and move normally while not firing. So your just making it easier for them to be open to SG abuse because that charge time wouldn't allow them to counter fire quick enough and this might lead to a HMG user overheating faster from leaning on the trigger because of knowing about the delay , this also makes them open to RE " scrubs " as you put it because most heavies face more then one opponent during conflicts . This might work for those who travel in packs or squads but this idea will kill solo players who play that role . Every answer to issues shouldn't be , " squad up " or " get gud ." There are so many other things that I can think of but I'm not trying to take over your post . I believe with the heating mechanic that's in place one has to constantly be reminded of overheating and that's fine because that causes one to depend more on their sidearm but delays added is kinda overkill . Most of the complaints from this game are squad based not solo . A lot of players play solo in-game . For the most part and most of you know this , if you see packs of heavies ... their in a squad , see heavies and logi combos , their in a squad . When I played solo logi ( I played all logi's maxed threw respec ) players would always run from me and it made no sense because I supplied the reps and ammo with needles , I also kept a scanner on me but because I was solo I died a lot even trying to keep up with the pack because I was a solo player they devalued me . Like BW lets not implement another feature that will devalue the solo player and experience . Edit : If you think about it for the most part , the response time for a counter from a heavy is extremely long in relation to say the decloak and fire animation , heavies are slow in everything they do . I think you missunderstood the OPs meaning...they want a movement speed penalty while firing, not a spin-up (the Movement Speed Penalty While Firing would be similar to the Movement Speed Penalty while Charging a FG)...Unless I'm misunderstanding your post Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6476	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:12:00 - [7] - Quote The proposal is making heavy movement speed slower while firing the gun the same way the forge gun slows the firer while charging. Not barrel spin up. Reading comprehension. Get some. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
DRT 99 Intara Direct Action Caldari State 6	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:07:00 - [8] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: 1: this also makes them open to RE " scrubs " as you put it because most heavies face more then one opponent during conflicts . 2: This might work for those who travel in packs or squads but this idea will kill solo players who play that role . 3: Every answer to issues shouldn't be , " squad up " or " get gud ." 4: There are so many other things that I can think of but I'm not trying to take over your post . 5: I believe with the heating mechanic that's in place one has to constantly be reminded of overheating and that's fine because that causes one to depend more on their sidearm but delays added is kinda overkill . 6: For the most part and most of you know this , if you see packs of heavies ... their in a squad , see heavies and logi combos , their in a squad . 7: Edit : If you think about it for the most part , the response time for a counter from a heavy is extremely long in relation to say the decloak and fire animation , heavies are slow in everything they do . 1: They would also be more vulnerable to MDs, PLCs, FGs, Snipers, and literally anything when in the open. IMO at close range a FG / PLC shot taking out a heavy is a decent counter. Also, heavies should not be able to win 2v1 at equal skill levels and equal gear levels. 2:Solo players are already getting the short end of the stick. Bandwidth, Proto, squads, and many other features kill solo players - as a frequent solo player myself id rather see the game balanced and a new 'no squads' mode added, though a suppose dust may lack the playerbase for that. 3:Neither of these are in my OP. 4: Im interested in hearing them - lets keep a constructive conversation going. 5: The heat mechanism does nothing to adress how screwed you are in a 1v1 vs a heavy. Also (as said before) im not proposing a fire delay. 6: Not entirely true - a large part of the problem is the solo players who cap the point and then spam heavies to hold it. Dead giveaway is when theres 8+ heavies on a point in dom from one team. 7:all things equal, a heavy will win a 1 vs 1 gunfight at less than 40m against an assault. If the heavy is more skilled the engagement will be closer and more one sided. If the assault is more skilled or extremely lucky, they MAYBE stand a chance. Heavies are slow in everything they do except kill. My proposal simply makes them slower at CHASING targets, not killing them.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 856	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:10:00 - [9] - Quote Nice idea but just a thought, along with that I'd reintroduce the rotation speed lowering, but now only while firing. 10100111001 Shield tanking is hard mode /period. 10100111001
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1718	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:38:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The proposal is making heavy movement speed slower while firing the gun the same way the forge gun slows the firer while charging. Not barrel spin up. Reading comprehension. Get some. You know , you are a D1cK ... ADS with an HMG is far more effective then just spraying and praying and already while doing the NO-ONE can run or strafe , so to make the spray movement slower STILL leaves them open to be strafed and SG , NK and RE'd by scouts or any suit with speed like a logi with the same weapons and speed enhancement mods and short range weapons . Having them slow down while just firing sounds like movement while in ADS and I use forges while charging is like moving while in ADS with a HMG . You played the role before bright boy .?. then you should know better instead of being snide but I guess it's just in your nature . You must be one of those people who believe that freedom of speech means , freedom to insult and ridicule ? OP this was the thought process that I was trying to convey , the HMG is much more effective while in ADS having them to move slower while general firing is kinda overkill and leaves them more open to close encounters and they already have that disadvantage by being slow , blind , having the largest hit box and signature , not withstanding being far less effective solo without help by a logi or fellow heavies . Can't balance a suit by a problem that your having in Dom where you already know the tactics that come into play by the opponent , that mode use to be a problem with vehicle spam and now they made changes to it to decrease that problem and like I said , that's a squad focal problem and not solo but your changes would effect the role in general and not just the mode that your having problems with or the solo player who will suffer the most . Most of the people who post are anti-solo so I would expect nothing less , not saying that's you OP but it's the general mood of the forums when reading posts . Most of the time the solo player isn't even considered . Have a problem with squads then something must be done in that regard , something that doesn't handicap the role for everyone . Just because they are already at a disadvantage doesn't give reason to just heap more trouble upon that role . Like you said yourself , they already have to deal with multiple threats ( MD's , FG's , other HMG's , vehicles and so on ) and if you already see that there is some unbalance and it's disproportionate then why would you add to the negative weight ??? That won't lead to balance . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1718	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:45:00 - [11] - Quote There is just no way that a dedicated heavy can look at this post and not think " nerf " . Look at the language . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 121	Posted - 2015.01.16 17:00:00 - [12] - Quote I think that the movement speed should probably be lowered very slightly while hip-firing, and ADS movement speed should be left alone. I have chased and gotten chased by enough people to know that even a small difference in speed can make a significant difference. I will state that I have a slight bias against HMG heavies, but I have a lot of difficulty trying to play one, since it doesn't fit my usual fast-moving play-style. PSA: Tell players to terminate in order to access mCRUs.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6484	Posted - 2015.01.16 17:54:00 - [13] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: More QQ because Breakin called me on not bothering to read Please cry directly into the bucket. I'll take lessons from you in playing sentinel when hell freezes over you stinking newbie. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5876	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:04:00 - [14] - Quote My only serious concern with this proposal is the 0.5 second of slow speed after you stop firing. In those "OH **!" moments being slowed down while you are trying to dive for cover would be incredibly frustrating. It would be the Sprint Glitch all over again. Fight or Flight!** If I am not firing, I want to be able to run. It is just basic human instinct. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5876	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:30:00 - [15] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: There is just no way that a dedicated heavy can look at this post and not think " nerf " . I hate to break it to you, but a nerf is coming. It is up to the dedicated Sentinel community to determine what that nerf will be, because if we don't come up with a viable proposal, then Rettati will have to come up with something on his own. Just go ask the ADS pilots what happen if you stick your head in the sand and pretend that there is nothing wrong. And for the Record, I play 1 hour solo every weekday morning before down time, while playing in squads whenever I can get on in the evening. I look at this from both a solo and squad perspective. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:47:00 - [16] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: There is just no way that a dedicated heavy can look at this post and not think " nerf " . I hate to break it to you, but a nerf is coming. It is up to the dedicated Sentinel community to determine what that nerf will be, because if we don't come up with a viable proposal, then Rettati will have to come up with something on his own. Just go ask the ADS pilots what happen if you stick your head in the sand and pretend that there is nothing wrong. And for the Record, I play 1 hour solo every weekday morning before down time, while playing in squads whenever I can get on in the evening. I look at this from both a solo and squad perspective. But did you understand my point ? Or was I being dense ??? Edit : Was my belief too exaggerated or could you understand the concern and the intent ? Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6488	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:48:00 - [17] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: There is just no way that a dedicated heavy can look at this post and not think " nerf " . I hate to break it to you, but a nerf is coming. It is up to the dedicated Sentinel community to determine what that nerf will be, because if we don't come up with a viable proposal, then Rettati will have to come up with something on his own. Just go ask the ADS pilots what happen if you stick your head in the sand and pretend that there is nothing wrong. And for the Record, I play 1 hour solo every weekday morning before down time, while playing in squads whenever I can get on in the evening. I look at this from both a solo and squad perspective. turn off aim assist for all variants of the HMG. then all of the HMG scrubs will be stuck at my level, and I'll be able to kill them, no longer being handicapped against sentinels with no freaking tactical awareness. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:49:00 - [18] - Quote You can't kill them because YOU are a scrub . Now move on scrub . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6488	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:50:00 - [19] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: You can't kill them because YOU are a scrub . Now move on scrub . You keep talking. And nothing useful is heard. Ever. I run HMG sent without the aim assist handicap. what's YOUR excuse? Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:50:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: More QQ because Breakin called me on not bothering to read Please cry directly into the bucket. I'll take lessons from you in playing sentinel when hell freezes over you stinking newbie. I promise you on the strength of the shining sun that I would eat you for breakfast one on one , I already KNOW that . Edit : Better have your squad when you talk to me because I know you need it , so hop back in your scout and speed off . You use Assault against me your dead . You definitely use heavy and the same . I'll kick rocks and dirt over your gray carcass . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6488	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:51:00 - [21] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: More QQ because Breakin called me on not bothering to read Please cry directly into the bucket. I'll take lessons from you in playing sentinel when hell freezes over you stinking newbie. I promise you on the strength of the shining sun that I would eat you for breakfast one on one , I already KNOW that . Doubt it. I wouldn't even bust out the good stuff. just kill you repeatedly in my pink dropsuits to rub salt into the wound. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:53:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: You can't kill them because YOU are a scrub . Now move on scrub . You keep talking. And nothing useful is heard. Ever. I run HMG sent without the aim assist handicap. what's YOUR excuse? Don't have one and don't need it , like I said ... you better bring help when you address me bud . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:55:00 - [23] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Doubt it. I wouldn't even bust out the good stuff. just kill you repeatedly in my pink dropsuits to rub salt into the wound. I'll bend you over , open up a can of Quafe and shove it up your @$$ . Kick rocks and dirt over your gray carcass . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2261	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:55:00 - [24] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: You can't kill them because YOU are a scrub . Now move on scrub . You keep talking. And nothing useful is heard. Ever. I run HMG sent without the aim assist handicap. what's YOUR excuse? Don't have one and don't need it , like I said ... you better bring help when you address me bud . Help has arrived. Can confirm. Nothing useful is heard. Home at Last <3
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:06:00 - [25] - Quote Like I said , he NEEDS it . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 150	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:12:00 - [26] - Quote Not bad. For those who don't like it, think of the slowness becouse of all the recoil and vibration stuff that slows you down. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6489	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:18:00 - [27] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Like I said , he NEEDS it . ZOMG gaiz Interwebz badazz here! Maek wai, maek wai! You do realize that all the posturing in the world isn't going to change the fact that you contribute nothing useful to the forums. Or the game. Or to my sense of apprehension. I find it amusing that you seem to think that your opinion matters to anyone on the internet, or that you think you calling out everyone around you as idiots makes you superior. As far as professional trolls go you're still pretty amateur hour. Learn some subtlety and I might give you some consideration. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 522	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:10:00 - [28] - Quote I gotta go with Fox here. If there is a speed penalty when not moving it'll pretty much kill the HMG and most heavies. When we stop shooting to move we need to move -- we move slow enough as it is... Movement speed reduction to ADS level when hip firing is totally acceptable. It'll have the added bonus of getting casual heavies killed faster too -- as they are now slower and easier to shoot down (increased incoming damage.) A reasonable hit to both offense and defense. Turn speed reduction is unreasonable though.
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 190	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:11:00 - [29] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: My only serious concern with this proposal is the "potential" 0.5 second of slow speed after you stop firing. In those "OH **!" moments being slowed down while you are trying to dive for cover would be incredibly frustrating. It would be the Sprint Glitch all over again. Fight or Flight!** If I am not firing, I want to be able to run. It is just basic human instinct. So... I support this proposal if the slowing effect is only applied when the trigger is held down. It would further reduce the HMG Sentinel's ability to strafe which would tip the scale back toward medium suits a bit more. Experienced Sentinels would learn to burst, move, burst, move etc, but that would still be less effective than current strafing, and people who don't play Sentinel all the time would be easy targets. It also makes sense that the Sentinel would be slowed while firing as they have to brace themselves against the kick of the HMG to keep it steady. +1 Purifier. First Class.
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx 272	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:13:00 - [30] - Quote I definitely like the idea +1 "In a world gone mad,only a lunatic is truly insane" Homer J Simpson



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